Does Anyone Else Consider These "Hybrid" Cars Cheating?

[Exorcet]

The cars themselves aren't cheating.

Making billions of monies in A-Spec isn't cheating.

Driving online isn't cheating

Using skewed PP to enter an online race and win because your car is completely superior is cheating.

Also, the poll options aren't that great so I did not vote.

If you could just go to the shops buy gt5 and come back home be on level 40 within minutes.
And have every car within the game within a short period of time? Whats the point of the game. Just ask PD to release a full version with everything already in it so no point trying to win this that and other?

When the game came out it was designed to have longevity to it. Now it can all be achevied fairly quickly by what the OP says with this new hybriding and hacking of the game save.

Sometimes I just don't get it. Why are good games a bad thing?

If I didn't have everything I wanted already I'd be very tempted to get a negative PP X1 and break the game open in terms of credits/cars. Then I could actually focus on playing the game. That's longevity. Playing GT "properly" isn't longevity. It's closer to torture.

Skip the boring, pointless, repetitive chore that for some reason is considered an essential part of games? Yes, please.

I agree wholeheartedly and it's what I've been saying since I first found out about the hybrids. The genie is out of the bottle and you can't put it back in. When the Civic first came out everyone said, "Oh it's just one car, if you see it in a room just boot the guy and limit PP to keep it out to begin with...what's your problem" Now it's a whole list of cars and now the X1 has negative PP and is immune to PP limitations. Once this animal rears it's ugly head it's unstoppable.

So many of you can't see it but Christara is on the money. The integrity of the entire game is in question now. Imagine if this hack had come out on day 1 how different the response would be. The game would have been done in a matter of months, outside of private lobbies, without a patch. The fact that it's happening now, 2 years down the road is irrelevant in my opinion. It needs to be fixed, period, for the integrity of the series and continuation of the GT series.

The PP issue needs to be fixed for sure. I still don't think the whole thing is that big of a deal though. Even with the PP problem, a quick rule change check will reveal hacked cars during free run.

And if anything maybe this will get PD to allow us to set PP and HP/weight at the same time, like we should have been able to do since the dawn of time. That right there not only automatically defeats all known overpowered hacked cars, it gives us further control in hosting a room that has been missing for who knows why.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

Can these "hybrid" be used on TTs ? If they can use cars within regulations of TT but "edited" by altering PP ( lowering ) while having more HP, increasing downforce by swapping with higher DF chassis ( X1 chassis ), then TT would be ruined ... what's stopping people to do this for online races as well ?

For example, a GT500 Supra with 600HP ( 50% limiter ) but only 450PP with min downforce ( using X1 chassis ), with max downforce (X1 DF ) at close to 600PP at 600PP limit TT or online race, the "hybrid" car have the usual HP of 600PP car but tremendous DF ( handling ) and torque ( limiter ).

 

[Johnnypenso]

And if anything maybe this will get PD to allow us to set PP and HP/weight at the same time, like we should have been able to do since the dawn of time. That right there not only automatically defeats all known overpowered hacked cars, it gives us further control in hosting a room that has been missing for who knows why.

Don't think it's that simple. Say you want to run a 550PP room. What do you set the HP/Weight limits at? I've got legally tuned 550PP cars with 500+ HP so let's say we set it at 530HP to include as many cars as possible. Weight min? Lots of good cars can be set up at 1100kg. So you pull out say an M3 GTR and you're pretty close to both regs so you think you're going to contend. I pull out an NSX. Great handling car but only around 460 HP. On most tracks a fairly even match up at 550PP.

But wait, my NSX is hacked. Somehow I've managed to get it to read out negative PP values like the X1, so I can run my NSX with 520HP instead of 450. Think you've got a chance? Not likely, not against any decent driver you don't.

If you can think of a fix in room setting, now that the genie is out of the bottle, someone will find a way to get around it with hacked car settings. Thing is, you may never know. If the NSX driver is smart, he'll get out ahead, make a 2 second or so cushion then just run around watching the splits and keeping it close enough to look legit, but you really have no chance. If you get within 1.5 seconds he just steps on it for a half a lap and leaves you in the dust.

 

[Exorcet]

Can these "hybrid" be used on TTs ? If they can use cars within regulations of TT but "edited" by altering PP ( lowering ) while having more HP, increasing downforce by swapping with higher DF chassis ( X1 chassis ), then TT would be ruined ... what's stopping people to do this for online races as well ?

For example, a GT500 Supra with 600HP ( 50% limiter ) but only 450PP with min downforce ( using X1 chassis ), with max downforce (X1 DF ) at close to 600PP at 600PP limit TT or online race, the "hybrid" car have the usual HP of 600PP car but tremendous DF ( handling ) and torque ( limiter ).

I'm not actively following this issue, so someone who knows better should correct me or confirm my post:

I don't think there is much danger from above, editing the car like that should cause the PP to go up. I don't think you would be able to directly edit the PP. The X1 has negative PP because of the PP equation. The equation only works between ~200-1000, and even around 1000 it starts to break because you can lose PP by adding downforce in the X1 or gain PP with ballast, etc. This is just math.

Taking a Super GT car and giving it outrageous hp/downforce will probably also give it outrageous PP. You're in more danger from a car that is slightly to marginally turned beyond its normal tuning limits, however in that case you aren't really in danger since the car should only be about as good as
any car around its PP. An exception might be road cars with race car level downforce since race cars tend to be faster at a given PP.

Don't think it's that simple. Say you want to run a 550PP room. What do you set the HP/Weight limits at?

You don't "set" hp or weight, you change them to ridiculous values while everyone is free running. If someone drops off the track, that's suspicious. You can try more than one value too.

But wait, my NSX is hacked. Somehow I've managed to get it to read out negative PP values like the X1

You'll fail PP reg. And this is only possible if you can edit PP directly. If you can't edit PP, you need to add 485705757252052752 hp to get negative PP, then you fail hp reg.

Thing is, you may never know.

Now this is a personal thing, but I don't care too much if people are cheating "slightly". I don't like cheaters, I don't want them in my rooms, but I wouldn't be outraged if someone beat me by 1-2 seconds because his car secretly had double horsepower, even if I found out later. If the entire room turned into cheats, things could get a bit frustrating, but I doubt that will happen often.

If the NSX driver is smart, he'll get out ahead, make a 2 second or so cushion then just run around watching the splits and keeping it close enough to look legit, but you really have no chance. If you get within 1.5 seconds he just steps on it for a half a lap and leaves you in the dust.

Not something to get all that worked up about, plus I can save a replay check what he's doing black list him if I ever see him again.

 

[christara321]

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=274702

 

[Johnnypenso]

You don't "set" hp or weight, you change them to ridiculous values while everyone is free running. If someone drops off the track, that's suspicious. You can try more than one value too.


You'll fail PP reg. And this is only possible if you can edit PP directly. If you can't edit PP, you need to add 485705757252052752 hp to get negative PP, then you fail hp reg.

Now this is a personal thing, but I don't care too much if people are cheating "slightly". I don't like cheaters, I don't want them in my rooms, but I wouldn't be outraged if someone beat me by 1-2 seconds because his car secretly had double horsepower, even if I found out later. If the entire room turned into cheats, things could get a bit frustrating, but I doubt that will happen often.

Not something to get all that worked up about, plus I can save a replay check what he's doing black list him if I ever see him again.

On the face of it these seem like valid points. But even if they are all true, all you've done is place the burden of enforcing regulations upon the host. As the game is designed, the host is supposed to be able to hit a few buttons and set up the room and be 100% certain that everyone that enters the track is legal. Now he can't qualify his car for a race anymore, because he has to leave the lobby to change the regs, his Q time is lost and he starts at the back in a "fastest first" race. And if the hackers find a way to manipulate how PP appears or weight or HP, all of it is moot.

Who has time to check replays from Open Lobbies? How often is too often for someone to care?

 

[Watt2159]

It's not really cheating when it's online free roam, but they are starting to piss me off, sorry but I miss when I was able to get into a SSR7/X room and there was actually more than just two types of cars driving around, and that's not to mention the people who get these cars and just use them only as battering rams, and I just hope PD fixes this soon, because its starting to become an online killer for me.

 

[Exorcet]

On the face of it these seem like valid points. But even if they are all true, all you've done is place the burden of enforcing regulations upon the host. As the game is designed, the host is supposed to be able to hit a few buttons and set up the room and be 100% certain that everyone that enters the track is legal. Now he can't qualify his car for a race anymore, because he has to leave the lobby to change the regs, his Q time is lost and he starts at the back in a "fastest first" race. And if the hackers find a way to manipulate how PP appears or weight or HP, all of it is moot.

Who has time to check replays from Open Lobbies? How often is too often for someone to care?

This isn't something PD can ignore, as I've said. But it's not something that should stop people from playing online.

You can still qualify if you use the method I outlined, just check cars before running your lap.

I don't think changing how stats appear will do much for anyone except cause self confusion, but we'd need to know how GT5 is coded to know for sure. HP and weight are very likely hard coded and all the numbers you see referring to them are probably referencing the hard coded numbers. PP references HP in some way and can't be hard coded, so it's safe from manipulation. If you want to modify a car, you have to change the HP/weight value, or something else which is going to lead to new values for those stats and possibly PP. A combined PP/HP system would probably be very hard to beat. But again, PD might have some different way of doing things that allows for more exploits.

Checking replays is pretty simple. Do it when you've finished if you feel like someone may have had an unfair advantage. It's not about catching someone cheating while they're cheating, it's about finding out who cheats and then preventing them from doing so next time.

 

[thesuperfunk]

I still have a PS1 memory card with a load of GT2 Hybrid's ... is it possible to create the current ones in a similar fashion?

 

[TorqueHappenS08]

I only see hybrids being used in Free run, i know i would never use a hybrid in a serious racing room, Unless it's my detuned civic that i turned into a time attack monster. Which can exist in real life and do...tons of the 1000hp civics out there.

 

[valhalla76]

If they use the cars online then yes, its cheating. If they use them offline, its not that bad. Who cares what they do with them offline.

 

[Kwicko]

I don't see them as "cheating" as long as you're only using them offline or in seasonals. If you're using them online or trying to force them into time trials, then yes, that's cheating, unless it's an online room where they're explicitly approves (a room set up for them exclusively, for instance).

 

[Stotty]

Generally, I don't see them as cheating.

They aren't really any differently to glitching the Nurburgring 24H race in the X1 by breaking out of the track back in the day... just a way to earn quick cash and level up.
However, the moment they affect TT's or on-line rooms they do become cheating and I lose interest in the game completely.

The amount of hype and endless threads on the forum is starting to get a bit tiresome though... we've seen it all before in previous versions of the game, yet people are acting like it's something new.

 

[Daisey327]

It is, but anyone who has been using them in a room is getting booted, so at most 1 race is ruined.....

 

[apexpredator100]

I have no problem with the cars as long as they are used in free run and unserious lobbies. It becomes a problem when it's used in serious racing lobbies.

 

[tankuroded]

I actually would like tell this: anyone who is annoyed by hybrids should use Grief Reporting in PlayStation Network site. The link is over the marketplace.

(Not sure where to put this, actually )

 

[Gejabo]

I don't care.
But then again I only race online with people I actualy know.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

Generally, I don't see them as cheating.

They aren't really any differently to glitching the Nurburgring 24H race in the X1 by breaking out of the track back in the day... just a way to earn quick cash and level up.
However, the moment they affect TT's or on-line rooms they do become cheating and I lose interest in the game completely.

The amount of hype and endless threads on the forum is starting to get a bit tiresome though... we've seen it all before in previous versions of the game, yet people are acting like it's something new.

It's probably because, due to the massive amount of time between GT4 and GT5 (and the very delayed appearance of hybrids in the former), there's a lot of people around who've only just started playing the GT series, so this is quite new to them. Not a lot of people remember the glory days of MK's program for GT3.

I agree with you about how I see them as cheating; offline, for peoples' own fun? Go nuts. I loved making realistic hybrid project cars back in the day. Using the exploits to top the leaderboards with multi-thousand-HP cars that turn their PP rating into the negative? Less good. The handy bonus with those, though, is that they make the situation much more visible to PD, so hopefully they'll take the necessary steps to fix it.

Personally, it'd be less of an issue if we also had more info available in replays. Someone entering a series with a very-slightly-enhanced hybrid could conceivably ruin the proper competitive nature, but the great thing about MK's program back then was that we could easily load a replay file up instead of a garage, and it would give us the exact specs of the car in question. That was incredible, and if PD would incorporate some sort of more advanced replay system, perhaps we could sniff out those who do aim at cheating quicker. I understand some people don't like to give up their tuning "secrets", and this could be a problem for an MK-style program, but IMO, the positives outweigh the negatives.

 

[Exorcet]

That was incredible, and if PD would incorporate some sort of more advanced replay system, perhaps we could sniff out those who do aim at cheating quicker.

Right now hovering over someone's name in a lobby tells you tires and assists. Why not hp and weight?

 

[Johnnypenso]

Right now hovering over someone's name in a lobby tells you tires and assists. Why not hp and weight?

There's a ton of work that can be done by PD in giving hosts and participants more info and hosts more ability to restrict car entry through various means. I'm no programmer so don't shoot me if this comes off sounding like a plumber giving advice on heart surgery, but isn't it just a matter of adding certain parameters to the hosts menu? Like a couple of days worth of programming on their end to make the change within the game and set up the graphics end of it and then whatever it takes to integrate the change system wide? Maybe a weeks worth of work for 2 or 3 guys/gals?

I can understand the obstacles they face when people ask for 200 more premium cars and the time and money involved in that and why it doesn't happen. But simple stuff like this, or what I assume to be simple, should be an ongoing part of tweeking the game towards perfection...which it's a long way from as far as the online racing part of it goes.

 

[Exorcet]

It depends. If they use some crazy complex code, that might be near impossible. However simplicity is (or should) always be a goal in coding.

I'd imagine it would work something like this:

PD adds another piece of info to the list that you see when scrolling over names. That info is then filled with the value of the horsepower of that person's car which the host PS3 simply has to ask for from the client PS3. Might take a week to code and debug.

It could be that simple, but there is no way of knowing for sure.

 

[Anathema]

Right now hovering over someone's name in a lobby tells you tires and assists. Why not hp and weight?

+1. This would be the solution to telling if people have them before getting on the track, and I'm a victim of people using them in a race. Thankfully... we denied him the win by creating a stall roadblock with two Audi RS6's.

 

[Gotbeefboy564]

Depends, I have every obtainable car in the game, I don't use the hacked cars during online races because I know better.

 

[saxplayer1998]

I sort of wished I'd waiting until I tried one to make the post, or at least vote. Because my opinions have now changed, but because I'm on all 40's in levels, all I do is "hybrid" lobbies, personal lounges and money farm seasonals.

 

[XTRGT]

If the Hybrid cars are cheating so using the Redbulls is cheating 2 cuz they don't exist...

 

[TwistyDrift]

I don't hate it. Still a good gig these hackers doing. I can drift converted FF to FR cars now. Plus more power

 

[watermelon punch]

If the Hybrid cars are cheating so using the Redbulls is cheating 2 cuz they don't exist...

You've managed to completely misunderstand every aspect of this issue.

1) Doing anything dishonest, secretly, to gain an advantage in a competition with others - is, yes, cheating. This is not a new concept, it's the definition.

2) Negative PP cars do not exist in the normal context of the game. "Redbulls" DO exist in the game, at a set PP.

3) Some "Hybrid" hack'd cars DO "exist in real life" or "can exist in real life". That doesn't mean the real life examples would be allowed in all divisions of, for example, an Autocross event - if not allowed by the rules, it would be considered, yes, cheating, and disallowed.

4) The issues of "does not exist in real life" and "cheating" are independent issues. Bishops do not generally capture queens in real life, but we wouldn't accuse Viswanathan Anand of cheating if his bishop did that last May in Moscow.

5) Using a "Redbull" in a road car race is, yes, generally considered cheating already... this is not a recent revelation.

 

[Johnnypenso]

4) The issues of "does not exist in real life" and "cheating" are independent issues. Bishops do not generally capture queens in real life, but we wouldn't accuse Viswanathan Anand of cheating if his bishop did that last May in Moscow.

I'm shocked ...that you would think that using a Viswanathan Anand reference would work trying to convince a guy that used the word "cuz" in a sentence...

 

[NjLowrider]

I don't like that the vettel challenge is now pointless because a hacked car can do it easy. Sad

 

[arora]

I don't like that the vettel challenge is now pointless because a hacked car can do it easy. Sad

How someone else completes that challenge has zero effect on you, none.