Does anyone feel like GT5 desperately needs to add cars to stay competitve?

[RocZX]

Question: Does anyone feel like GT5 desperately needs to add cars to stay competitve?

Answer: Competitive with what? Is there another game that even offers the depth of variety and sheer numbers of cars? No. So no.

Thread ended.

I agree with you on that but to keep it current till GT6 they will have to add newer cars to it.

 

[Dan_]

GT5 needs more current model cars ( 2010, 2011 and 2012 ), the car list look like it has stopped in 2009.

Concerning what do with Standards and Premiums on the next title, I love the standards, they provide a huge variety of cars ported from my favourite racing game ( GT4 ) without them the game would suck badly since only 220 cars are Premiums and of these, a lot are Nascar and SuperGT cars, which doesn't provide the same contrastant experience between them as road cars do.

However I would love if GT6 doesn't have any of them and just 500'ish Premiums, having a common standard on which all cars were modelled against was one of the factors that made all previous GT games addictive. Just my two cents.

 

[CSLACR]

"If you don't like them, don't drive them" is the only way for someone who doesn't like the cars to not be bothered by them. You can drive them if you want, but I would suggest that if you don't want to drive them that you don't.

And you didn't mention anything about replacing those cars with better modeled premium ones. In fact, you say you'd rather 400 premiums than 200 premiums and 800 standards, but that's not currently an option. The standards are already modeled and they can't delete them and get their time back to model new ones. The cars have already been modeled and ported, and I suspect it will take very little time to port them into GT6 if they decide not to make them premium.

My point is, they wouldn't gain anything from scrapping them because they're already in game, so if you want 200 more premiums, they might as well model them and keep the standards because that gives us the most content without screwing people like me out of their favorite cars.

You are entitled to your opinion, and if you would rather more premiums than keeping the standards, that's certainly not arrogant, but it is irrelevant, because it already happened. If GT6 comes out relatively soon, they won't have time to model all the Standards as premiums, but they will be able to port them over very easily without wasting time because it wouldn't be that different from GT5. If it comes out later, they'd have more time to model a lot more premiums, and the game will be different enough that the Standards take more time to import, which will probably force them to make many of them Premium and scrap the rest. But scrapping 800 Standards for 200 Premiums doesn't seem likely to me. I have a feeling they'll take their time and make most or all of the Standards Premium by the time GT6 comes out.

Sorry if I misunderstood you the first time. It wasn't clear in your post that you wanted them replaced by anything, just that you wanted them gone with no benefit, which made me think your only reason was that you didn't like them. (I maintain that that position is still quite arrogant, and it's one I see more often than I would like). If you intended something like what I wrote in the above paragraph, that's a perfectly fair opinion. If DaveTheStalker feels the same way, that's good too, but it isn't clear in his post either, so I really hope he doesn't think getting rid of them for the sake of getting rid of them is a good idea. (It's also ironic that he wants to get rid of the ported cars, but want them to port over the old tracks, unless he means totally redoing those tracks, which I would agree with).

If nothing else would change I would have no reason to wish them removed.
It's no problem to me if we completely disagree about all of it, but I think most people who complain about standards are going with the assumption PD would add more content in other areas of the game, and/or more premiums would be in the game.
But if everything else were to remain unchanged, removing standards would be exactly as you describe, hindering the enjoyment of some without reason.

Actually, no. The arguments are completely different.
Ignore the standard cars and everyone wins. Remove the Standard cars and the game becomes tailor-made for those that don't like them rather than enjoyable by everyone but those who can't play the game unless they are told how to.

But simply "removing" standards was never my opinion. I think very few have the opinion to just "eliminate" them, without adding something else in their game space.

What you are saying is no different (and no less arrogant) from those guys who bang on about why licence tests should be made required again and to hell with everyone who doesn't like doing them, even though there is nothing stopping the people who like doing them from doing them when they are optional.

Even if my opinion was that they should erase content from the game without replacing it, it still would not be arrogant.
Arrogant would be believing my opinion is worth more than other people's opinions.

Imagine you care about crappy physics on many standard cars, worse graphics, and general half-assed or "rushed" game design, and you also don't like B-Spec.
Well, you're now left with a game of 200 cars, 10 real world tracks + variations, and a tiny A-Spec mode.

So no, I don't think it's at all "arrogant" or "selfish" to wish PD would implement other things in their place, not in the slightest.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Question: Does anyone feel like GT5 desperately needs to add cars to stay competitve?

Answer: Competitive with what? Is there another game that even offers the depth of variety and sheer numbers of cars? No. So no.

Thread ended.

A bit arrogant, to be honest let's come back down to the real world first off GT isn't the tell all tell all. GT doesn't have depth, I don't see how anyone can call 60 cars that look alike and performance wise aren't different as "depth". I guess when you go to the dealership you test out every car that is the same body but different color? It's great that you can have a 1000+ cars but when 800 of those are from that last game basically put up into hd and not modeled to the same degree as the premiums not only is it lacking but it's highly unoriginal. The cars are already made so trying to update them further with a cockpit may be hard but there was five years in which to do it. FM3 or FM4 don't hold any water to GT5? Why because you say so and your bias wont look past your GT5 display case? Let's be real FM4 has cars that no GT game has ever had, they look realistic and the physics are quickly catching up to GT. Not to count the fact that they had 500+ cars in the last game with it to increase this game. That is still more cars than most of us will get around to driving the difference is...they're different no rehashed models that are said to be special because of a unique color or some other feature that has nothing to do with performance. So sorry but this debate goes on. No GT doesn't need more cars just different unique cars.

Post has been edited!

 

[Tenacious D]

GT doesn't have depth I don't see how anyone can call 60 cars that look alike and performance wise are different as "depth".

This is the most blatant abuse of reason and the english language I've seen this side of text speak. If GT5 only had a few models which were multiplied into hundreds, that would be pretty sad. But it doesn't.

And by the way, Forza 3 only had 500 cars because 300 of them were ported in from Forza 2, which had 200 ported in from Forza 1, and a bunch of new work was farmed out to modeling shops, many of which were in places like Vietnam. Which would explain a number of bugs in the models. If you love it, at least don't act like it's the pinnacle of videogame design.

Good grief, this silly meme that "Fprza has more than 500 impeccable cars built from scratch by Turn 10" refuses to die...

 

[Tornado]

Even if my opinion was that they should erase content from the game without replacing it, it still would not be arrogant.
Arrogant would be believing my opinion is worth more than other people's opinions.

These two sentences contradict each other. Hard.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

Good grief, this silly meme that "Fprza has more than 500 impeccable cars built from scratch by Turn 10" refuses to die...

Now now... the only person saying this is you, D

Now that GT5 is out though, and you're bringing up how both franchises recycle cars, I wouldn't mind seeing a car in FM3 (or FM4 in six weeks) that has been utterly unchanged in the model/texture department since FM1. Then the comparison is the same.

Bringing back models from a previous generation, and improving them, is different from simply recycling. Some of the later Standards certainly hide their relative low-tech looks better than others (the new-to-PSP cars, as examples, but also things like the Celica ST185 Rally Car), but some of the cars that have been with us since GT3 really are starting to look sub-par in comparison to other games out there. Of course, the physics model is still present underneath them, but when it comes to really digging into the intricate details of cars, really revelling in the unique features in things like Photo Travel mode, well, that's where Standards sort of fall down. PD limiting people from even getting too close in replays hints pretty heavily at that.

That ties in to the main issue with having GT4's lineup making up the vast majority of GT5's roster, and the whole issue with this thread's original question; certainly a racing game shouldn't be about just the shiny newness, but GT5 is heavily skewed towards 2004 and older models, and has some large gaps for enthusiast metal moving forward from that point. Or, in the case of the oft-requested E30 M3, just strange oversights of older products. On the other hand - we got a good chunk of prancing horses as an introduction to the brand in the series.

Perhaps the real issue lies with the idea of a "car encyclopedia". While certainly a great one, and it's what's shaped Kaz' vision and the entire series, it's also the biggest stumbling block, as it will never be enough. As modelling takes ever longer with each new generation, the time it takes to include new models will only increase, and there needs to be a line drawn as to how many near-identical cars are included. The average gamer, or the more casual racing-game players, are catching on - I've had numerous friends ask me about GT5's "real car count", asking if there's truth to the rumour of a high level of padding. So in that sense, I agree that GT needs new cars added - only to further increase its diversity, because those dozens of RX-7's, or 3000GT/GTO's, or R32-R34 Skylines, or Miatas seem to be at the fore-front of the discussion, ignoring the important fact: GT still does have the widest selection of cars in a racing game, even if you cut the above (and any other similar ones) to only 2 or 3 examples per generation. It's just that the reputation for padding can get in the way of that.

Whether it's the more appealing car roster, of course, is another, more personal matter, up to each individual. I say, to those who can do it... why choose just one game?

 

[TheDabbinDave]

Garbage in the OCD? I'm buying all those classic Japanese cars, because they're some of my favorite cars in the game. Please speak for yourself on things like this. Not everyone feels the same way about those cars as you, and to suggest PD should get rid of them just because you don't like them is incredibly arrogant.

THEY ALL DRIVE THE SAME, crappy!!!! This is a racing game.

So, I guess we should start demanding every version of the Beetle huh?

What has me so angry about this game is the lack of modern (2009-2011) cars. We need balance. Yes, I know GT5 was a 2010 release. PD doesn't have the clout to have advanced access like it's competitors? PD couldn't get the FXX? Reventon? Couldn't model the 09 R8 LM in Premium???

Something needs to change.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

This is the most blatant abuse of reason and the english language I've seen this side of text speak. If GT5 only had a few models which were multiplied into hundreds, that would be pretty sad. But it doesn't.

And by the way, Forza 3 only had 500 cars because 300 of them were ported in from Forza 2, which had 200 ported in from Forza 1, and a bunch of new work was farmed out to modeling shops, many of which were in places like Vietnam. Which would explain a number of bugs in the models. If you love it, at least don't act like it's the pinnacle of videogame design.

Good grief, this silly meme that "Fprza has more than 500 impeccable cars built from scratch by Turn 10" refuses to die...

I never said I loved it, but you guys need to come to grips that this isn't the 90s or early 00s anymore. GT is no longer the top sim driving game, it does have challengers now and they've wised up seeing that people want the real thing and now some arcade tuner. That was the point of my post to the arrogance people still have that GT is somehow eons above the rest. Once again go back and look at many of the standards especially those carried over from GTPSP and it doesn't take a microscope to tell that the remodel isn't very good and quite low tech compared to the well rendered premium cars.

 

[Traviizter]

THEY ALL DRIVE THE SAME, crappy!!!! This is a racing game.

So, I guess we should start demanding every version of the Beetle huh?

Correction. GT5 is a driving simulator.

My opinion: No, GT5 has 1000 cars already, but most people (myself included until recently) are not using the Standards purely because of that. So, to summarize; no, what GT5 needs is for (some/most) Standards to be converted to Premiums. This way, people will realize the potential of Standards and not just see them as a collection item.

EDIT: Now I think about it, more customisation options would be great to further enhance and personalise our cars.

 

[dylansan]

THEY ALL DRIVE THE SAME, crappy!!!! This is a racing game.

In your opinion they drive crappy. In my opinion they're worth having in the game because I like to drive them. I suggest that if you hate them that much, that you simply don't drive them, because removing them is the most pointless thing they could do.

So, I guess we should start demanding every version of the Beetle huh?

What are you talking about?

I'm not suggesting (or demanding) they add anything. I'm saying don't get rid of cars that are already in the game. There's a pretty big difference.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

In your opinion they drive crappy. In my opinion they're worth having in the game because I like to drive them. I suggest that if you hate them that much, that you simply don't drive them, because removing them is the most pointless thing they could do.
What are you talking about?

I'm not suggesting (or demanding) they add anything. I'm saying don't get rid of cars that are already in the game. There's a pretty big difference.

I agree with you, I love the old school Japanese cars and only wish we could do a few more mods to them. Still they are fun to drive and should stay. However, I wouldn't go too far saying that NO cars should be removed. They're are plenty of Miatas, Skylines R32-R34 that could be removed and other Japanese cars. Yet other than that the other cars shouldn't be removed. There are a couple American cars that should also be removed, but it's mainly the Japanese cars 90s and 00s onward.

 

[dylansan]

The only cars that have any reason to be removed are the ones that don't exist, as Toronado pointed out somewhere else. The cars that are somehow both US spec and JDM, as a result of PD's messing around with international variations of cars, could easily be dropped from the next game without care because there are real cars that would suffice. They shouldn't take them out of GT5 though. Some people already own them, and they are pretty close to their real life counterparts, so deleting them would remove an almost acceptable car from their garage, leaving them with nothing. Not everyone that owns the fake car also owns a real counterpart. The only way they could remove them is to give them a real one as a replacement, but it would be too hard for them to pick which one because they represent two different regions at once. It's not worth their time.

The many variations of Miata and Skyline however (the real ones at least) have no reason to be removed. Even if the difference is small, people will find their favorites, and there are some who are glad to have their exact model in the game. Why take that away? There is no requirement to drive each one they are too similar to be worth it, but the people who recognize the difference deserve to be able to appreciate them, no matter how small. It would be nice of course if all the differences were modeled so it would be easier to do that, but removing them does not solve that issue when it would be so easy just to tweak the models a bit.

 

[CSLACR]

Even if my opinion was that they should erase content from the game without replacing it, it still would not be arrogant.
Arrogant would be believing my opinion is worth more than other people's opinions.

These two sentences contradict each other. Hard.

No, your understanding of them does.

ar·ro·gant   [ar-uh-guhnt] Show IPA
adjective
1.
making claims or pretensions to superior importance or rights; overbearingly assuming; insolently proud: an arrogant public official.
2.
characterized by or proceeding from arrogance: arrogant claims.

"PD should remove all standard cars in my opinion"

ar·ro·gance   [ar-uh-guhns] Show IPA
noun
offensive display of superiority or self-importance; overbearing pride.

Nope, posting an opinion on what someone thinks about GT5's car list doesn't fit into any of these.

How exactly is saying "I think standard cars shouldn't be in GT5" a display of self-importance or superiority?
It's a personal opinion, nothing more. I don't think most of the standard cars are up to par with the PS3, and I think it was a half-assed way to fluff the head count. I don't care if every company that ever makes a game does it, I don't like half-assed - period.
Still not arrogant, just an opinion based on personal preference.

The many variations of Miata and Skyline however (the real ones at least) have no reason to be removed.

I don't think any car should just be "removed", just that many of them shouldn't have been put in in the first place. Unless we're talking for GT6, by then they should be gone forever in my book, there's no place for PS2 scale cars anymore.

 

[Tornado]

How exactly is saying "I think standard cars shouldn't be in GT5" a display of self-importance or superiority?

Really? It isn't obvious?



Because by saying you don't want them in the game, you are telling the people that don't mind them or even enjoy them that their opinions are wrong. Whereas someone who says "don't use them if you don't like them" is doing nothing of the sort to you.

 

[dylansan]

CSLACR, "PD should remove all standard cars in my opinion" isn't just an opinion, it's a desire for PD to do what would make you happy, despite the fact that it would make others unhappy. It's like if I said "In my opinion we should take all the food from Africa and use it to feed people here in the US." Even if I said "I don't think my opinion is more important than anyone else's", I would have to think US citizens were more important than people in Africa just to have that opinion.

Now obviously your opinion isn't that bad, but the concept applies. If you don't want PD to include standards in GT6 because they don't look good, even if they don't find the time to replace them with much else, that would be ignoring all the people who like driving the Premiums even though they don't look good. Now of course I would like to see the standards updated to premiums gradually, but I don't want a single (real) standard car to be removed unless it's replaced by a premium one. If PD decides to scrap them all first, then make premium versions later for GT6, I would probably stick to GT5 until they make most of them premium, depending on how much other content GT6 has. Luckily, I know PD won't do this for the same reason they kept them in GT5. The cars were already there, and putting them in did no harm.

 

[mclarendriver]

I think need to add more fantasy cars. Because they have to be able compete with forza 4 because they have the halo warthog. And now EA is pretty much taking away Porsche from forza. So we need more cars. Like the new 458 spyder! and maybe even try and get some of the transformer edition cars?

 

[CSLACR]

Really? It isn't obvious?



Because by saying you don't want them in the game, you are telling the people that don't mind them or even enjoy them that their opinions are wrong. Whereas someone who says "don't use them if you don't like them" is doing nothing of the sort to you.

CSLACR, "PD should remove all standard cars in my opinion" isn't just an opinion, it's a desire for PD to do what would make you happy, despite the fact that it would make others unhappy. It's like if I said "In my opinion we should take all the food from Africa and use it to feed people here in the US." Even if I said "I don't think my opinion is more important than anyone else's", I would have to think US citizens were more important than people in Africa just to have that opinion.

Now obviously your opinion isn't that bad, but the concept applies. If you don't want PD to include standards in GT6 because they don't look good, even if they don't find the time to replace them with much else, that would be ignoring all the people who like driving the Premiums even though they don't look good. Now of course I would like to see the standards updated to premiums gradually, but I don't want a single (real) standard car to be removed unless it's replaced by a premium one. If PD decides to scrap them all first, then make premium versions later for GT6, I would probably stick to GT5 until they make most of them premium, depending on how much other content GT6 has. Luckily, I know PD won't do this for the same reason they kept them in GT5. The cars were already there, and putting them in did no harm.

If both of these are true all opinions on this matter are arrogant, including the both of yours.
Because by half-assing so many things to stretch everything so slim, they hindered my ability to enjoy it, therefore you're both arrogant by your own definition.
So we're all arrogant by having opinions on what we would like to see included or not in the game, why even bring the term up since it applies (by your logic) to everyone with an opinion on the matter?

 

[Spagetti69]

I think need to add more fantasy cars. Because they have to be able compete with forza 4 because they have the halo warthog. And now EA is pretty much taking away Porsche from forza. So we need more cars. Like the new 458 spyder! and maybe even try and get some of the transformer edition cars?

Kaz doesn't pay attention to opposition.

 

[Tornado]

So we're all arrogant by having opinions on what we would like to see included or not in the game, why even bring the term up since it applies (by your logic) to everyone with an opinion on the matter?

Because that's not what it means logically speaking, but if you haven't gotten the distinction by now we might as well drop it because you aren't going to get it.

 

[trombone]

I'm only frustrated that I got a 98' Ford Taurus for my Modern Muscle Car Ticket.

 

[dylansan]

That Taurus is actually pretty fast, being a SHO and all.

If both of these are true all opinions on this matter are arrogant, including the both of yours.
Because by half-assing so many things to stretch everything so slim, they hindered my ability to enjoy it, therefore you're both arrogant by your own definition.
So we're all arrogant by having opinions on what we would like to see included or not in the game, why even bring the term up since it applies (by your logic) to everyone with an opinion on the matter?

When did either of us say we wanted PD to half ass anything, or hinder your ability to enjoy it? I'm trying to be reasonable about this, and give you the benefit of the doubt, but every time I assume your opinion is a reasonable one, you show me that it's not.

 

[Tenacious D]

Because by half-assing so many things to stretch everything so slim, they hindered my ability to enjoy it

I hope you're joking about this, because if the Standard cars and tracks really offend you, you're a very strange person.

I'd like to include the "one thousand Skylines/Miatas/Subarus" crowd in this discussion too. These cars are not in your way. You don't have to plow around them to get to your favorite ride. It takes... what, a fifth of a second to scroll past one? Such an ordeal.

 

[Tornado]

That Taurus is actually pretty fast, being a SHO and all.

And guaranteed to piss people off online if you win races with it.

 

[E28]

Kaz doesn't pay attention to opposition.

Which is stupid personally. Competition is what should be driving them to make better games. They should be looking at Forza's strengths and flaws, and going one better than Forza.

If when the Benz motor-carriage came along, no one tried to make a better version of it, then we may still be stuck with primitive cars, as there would have been no need for them to make a new version to stay competitive, since there wouldn't have been any competition to compete with.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Which is stupid personally. Competition is what should be driving them to make better games. They should be looking at Forza's strengths and flaws, and going one better than Forza.

If when the Benz motor-carriage came along, no one tried to make a better version of it, then we may still be stuck with primitive cars, as there would have been no need for them to make a new version to stay competitive, since there wouldn't have been any competition to compete with.

You're right, but the point you make is probably why cockpits and damage are barely being introduced to the game. They still may think they're the top guys and this may be a reason why they just started to change, but numbers only tell half the story at the end of the day sadly.

 

[Biobunny]

The 1000 cars in GT5 isn't suppose to be a compliment but rather a disgusting insult because it's bloated. I do not ask PD to remove all the maitas/skylines/etc but rather remove a couple of each "car" that absolutely don't make a difference only from the marketplace, and not from the garages.