Does Turn 10 have a bias about American Fords?

[CWR63]

This is not intended as a slam piece, screed or diatribe. Forza 4 DLC has been featuring some of the least well designed, poorly performing, non-collectible vehicles that Ford has produced for the North American market while bypassing some of the more classic designs that actually have at least an association with motorsports.

Not to malign the classic US Fords T10 put in the game such as the Fairlane Thunderbolt, 57 Thunderbird, GT40 and 64.5 Mustang - but the Mustang II, Pinto and Country Squire are disheartening for a Ford fan; it lacks only a 74 Maverick with rusted rocker panels in the final DLC to put us down for the count. The Ford of Europe products seem well represented in comparision.

Obviously Ford made these cars and they sold lots of them: but we're not seeing DLCs with Chevy Vegas or Monzas, AMC Gremlins or Pacers, Dodge Magnums or Lasers (although the inclusion of 1 AMC car and that car not being a 68 - 70 AMX, but rather the overwrought Javelin AMX is puzzling).

Fords that might have been featured include the 64 Falcon Sprint, seen in
60s - 70s British Touring Car Championships (saw this bit on Top Gear UK):

The 1963.5 Galaxie fastback, designed for NASCAR:

The 65 - 66 Shelby 350 or Mustang 2+2 fastback:

Or even, if it needs to synch up with Top Gear cars, the 1987 Thunderbird driven by Rutledge Wood in season 2 might have been preferable to the Pinto driven by Adam Ferrara in Season 3:

Am I totally off-base with this? Could there be the smallest possibility that T10 doesn't much care for US Fords?

 

[Shant J.]

Disheartening? I'm incredibly happy that the Mustang II, Pinto, and Country Squire are in. Would i like a Galaxie or Mustang Fastback? Sure, but not at the expense of other cars. The more the merrier.

 

[Fezz_ST]

I think Ford are well catered for in the sense they have a lot of cars in the game, most of which are only available in America, I don't have the list of Ford cars in the game to hand, but the only cars which I believe aren't or weren't available to America are the RS1800 and the Escort and Sierra Cosworths, I'm sure someone would be able to correct me on that

I believe Turn10 need to bring more Fords from Europe into the game, for example

mk1 fiesta xr2i
Mk3 Escort xr3i
Mk3 Escort RS Turbo
Mk3 Fiesta RS Turbo
Mk4 Escort RS 2000
Mk6 Fiesta ST
Mk1 Focus RS
Sierra Sapphire

Etc etc

 

[Wolfe]

Excluding the Launch pack and American Muscle pack, Ford has gotten six DLC cars, four of which are american.

Even if you count the packs available at launch, the following brands have gotten zero DLC cars (source):
Abarth
Acura
AMC
Bertone
Cadillac
Chrysler
Citroën
De Tomaso
DeLorean
Devon
Eagle
Gumpert
HUMMER
Infiniti
Jaguar
Jeep
Joss
KIA
Lancia
Land Rover
Lotus
McLaren
Mercedes-Benz
Mercury
Mitsubishi
Morgan
Mosler
Nissan
Oldsmobile
Opel
Peugeot
Radical
Rossion
Saab
Saleen
Saturn
Scion
SEAT
Spada Vetture Sport
Spyker
SSC
Toyota
TVR
Vauxhall
Volvo

Ford also has one of the largest lists of cars, many of which are classics, as you mentioned. Not trying to shut you down or anything, just pointing it out.

Personally, the Pinto is the only Ford I've been driving. I used it to beat the '70s V8 Challenge, with the original inline-4.

 

[CWR63]

I think Ford are well catered for in the sense they have a lot of cars in the game, most of which are only available in America, I don't have the list of Ford cars in the game to hand, but the only cars which I believe aren't or weren't available to America are the RS1800 and the Escort and Sierra Cosworths, I'm sure someone would be able to correct me on that

I believe Turn10 need to bring more Fords from Europe into the game, for example

mk1 fiesta xr2i
Mk3 Escort xr3i
Mk3 Escort RS Turbo
Mk3 Fiesta RS Turbo
Mk4 Escort RS 2000
Mk6 Fiesta ST
Mk1 Focus RS
Sierra Sapphire

Etc etc

Actually, 2 of the Foci, the 06 and 09, were only sold in Europe - thank goodness they left the US version of the Focus during those years out of the game:

Now if they'd just make a three door again...

I think that the door would be longer, but this is a photoshopped pic...

 

[CWR63]

Excluding the Launch pack and American Muscle pack, Ford has gotten six DLC cars, four of which are american.

Even if you count the packs available at launch, the following brands have gotten zero DLC cars (source):
Abarth
Acura
AMC
Bertone
Cadillac
Chrysler
Citroën
De Tomaso
DeLorean
Devon
Eagle
Gumpert
HUMMER
Infiniti
Jaguar
Jeep
Joss
KIA
Lancia
Land Rover
Lotus
McLaren
Mercedes-Benz
Mercury
Mitsubishi
Morgan
Mosler
Nissan
Oldsmobile
Opel
Peugeot
Radical
Rossion
Saab
Saleen
Saturn
Scion
SEAT
Spada Vetture Sport
Spyker
SSC
Toyota
TVR
Vauxhall
Volvo

Ford also has one of the largest lists of cars, many of which are classics, as you mentioned. Not trying to shut you down or anything, just pointing it out.

Personally, the Pinto is the only Ford I've been driving. I used it to beat the '70s V8 Challenge, with the original inline-4.

You left Lincoln off the list. I agree with you for the most part, but it would be like if you were a BMW fan (as I am) and they put the Isetta and Bavaria in DLCs before the 2002 tii and the 3.0 CSi were in the game, and you're thinking "there's no more DLCs for them to be released in!"

 

[imported_ben_1_]

mk1 fiesta xr2i
Mk3 Escort xr3i
Mk3 Escort RS Turbo
Mk3 Fiesta RS Turbo
Mk4 Escort RS 2000
Mk6 Fiesta ST
Mk1 Focus RS
Sierra Sapphire

Etc etc

They would be the best choices ever, i'd pay 2100 msp for thoose :lol, although i'm not sure they would be able to model a mk4 Escort RS2000 as they where never made, it was the MK4 (Series 2) Escort RS Turbo that was made, the MK5 RS2000 (2.0 Twin cam- some 4WD and some 2WD) was the one i think your where thinking of.

Anyway lets have some pics of some Escorts ;D!

 

[VXR]

It may not have been the best one, but the Mk.5 RS2000 with the two speed humps in the bonnet sure looked the best, imo.

 

[Fezz_ST]

Yes the Mk5 RS 2000 is the one I was referring too, my friend had a white one, said the worst thing he ever done was sell it, even though he has a 400 BHP sapphire now!

 

[Joey D]

I have no issues with a bias towards American Fords, I own most of them and love every one of them. But I'm a bit of a Ford fan myself.

 

[buickgnx88]

I would think that since they are based in the US, that there would be a bit of a bias towards the cars that are found more easily in the US. That's not to say that I wouldn't love some more Euro Ford cars.

I do agree though that there are some US Ford cars that could have been included that are better than some of their choices.

I also agree that there should be DLC from other brands, and that a few brands have seen too much love.

 

[Populuxe]

I agree there are more sporting Fords that could have been included in the game in place of the Pinto, Mustang II and Country Squire. But those three cars represent something unique in racing games: a sense of humor. It's hilariously good fun to hoon around in a 700+ hp Pinto, or a mildly tuned F200 Mustang II that can barely corner. I can't wait to get home from work so I can haul the groceries in my Country Squire at Sebring. Driving any car in the game is fun, but how many make you laugh out loud because of the sheer ridiculous fun of it all?

 

[VXR]

The CS is heaps of fun with fully soft, raised suspension.

(The yellow sticker is a fictional diner called Griswold's.)

I can't help but hope a car like this has been added with an eye to the potentially open road nature of Horizon...

 

[t.o.]

I remember seeing this car (only had more rally lights on top ) when I was stationed in Germany and being so pissed that in America we had a piece of crap at the time.

 

[imported_ben_1_]

^ 1991 Ford Escort XR3i convertable, european.

 

[t.o.]

^ 1991 Ford Escort XR3i convertable, european.

Uh oh, then it wasn't this model. Infact I do remember it was a bit more squared than this. A couple years earlier than 91. More like 89 or so. I took a pic of it but it got lost over time. Funny thing about it was i saw it at a Mercedes or Volvo dealership, it belong to the guy running the place and he had a HUGE smile on his face. Dude seemed more proud of it than the cars he was selling. I was going to buy it off him but to get it prepped for US standards cost too much, according to him.

 

[VXR]

1991 was just when it was registered. That would have been one of the last of that shape.

 

[imported_ben_1_]

Correct, it was when it was registered, the make shape was made from late 1986 to late 1991, which was when the MK5 Escort was bought into the world, in 1992/1993 we then seen the RS2000, around 1992/93/94+ we started seeing the Escort Cosworth (last one was made in 1996 iirc).

 

[CWR63]

My first new car was a 91 Escort LX (still in the family - some neice or nephew owns it) and then, I leased an Escort GT in 94; wouldn't mind seeing one in the game:

I felt so powerful with 127 horses under my right foot...(my LX had all of 88)

 

[Luminis]

Honestly, if there's one brand that's not under-represented in FM4, it would be Ford. Whether it's about Amrican Fords or European Fords, I can hardly see how T10 is biased against either.

Just my opinion, of course.

 

[CWR63]

Honestly, if there's one brand that's not under-represented in FM4, it would be Ford. Whether it's about Amrican Fords or European Fords, I can hardly see how T10 is biased against either.

Just my opinion, of course.

Totally agree, Ford's not under-represented - I'm talking of how it's represented. Couldn't they have finished putting in the classics that had some fashion of motorsports association before releasing the infamous, um, notorious, erm, less classic models?

It does seem that the consensus is that T10 is not biased against US Fords. I can accept that answer.

 

[Luminis]

Totally agree, Ford's not under-represented - I'm talking of how it's represented. Couldn't they have finished putting in the classics that had some fashion of motorsports association before releasing the infamous, um, notorious, erm, less classic models?

Looking at the car list, racing pedigree has never been a very important factor to T10, I believe. There's a rather large amount of cars that have basically zero racing heritage whatsoever. The hybrids, EVs, most luxury sedans...

And while I, myself, am not overly excited to have cars like a Prius in the game, I can kinda understand why T10 isn't basing their decisions on racing pedigree.

 

[recar deeps]

The 1963.5 Galaxie fastback, designed for NASCAR:

I would love to see this, brings me back to when I was a kid. My Dad had a 62 I think it had a 289 in it, I was born in 62 so I was a little kid hard to remember what eng. was in it. He also had a 66 & 69 Galaxie both had the 390.

I just downloaded the Country Squire last nite man is it fun to drive. Handles quite well and relativly fast in its stock form.

I would'nt mind seeing more old fords added Falcon's, Fairlanes & Torino's.
(69 Talladega Torino)

 

[MobySPD68]

I think Ford are well catered for in the sense they have a lot of cars in the game, most of which are only available in America, I don't have the list of Ford cars in the game to hand, but the only cars which I believe aren't or weren't available to America are the RS1800 and the Escort and Sierra Cosworths, I'm sure someone would be able to correct me on that

I believe Turn10 need to bring more Fords from Europe into the game, for example

mk1 fiesta xr2i
Mk3 Escort xr3i
Mk3 Escort RS Turbo
Mk3 Fiesta RS Turbo
Mk4 Escort RS 2000
Mk6 Fiesta ST
Mk1 Focus RS
Sierra Sapphire

Etc etc

+1 for me.

Only the Mk4 Escort RS2000. I guess that should be the Mk5 RS2000.

Bryan

 

[CWR63]

Looking at the car list, racing pedigree has never been a very important factor to T10, I believe. There's a rather large amount of cars that have basically zero racing heritage whatsoever. The hybrids, EVs, most luxury sedans...

And while I, myself, am not overly excited to have cars like a Prius in the game, I can kinda understand why T10 isn't basing their decisions on racing pedigree.

The difference to me is that all of the non-motorsports vehicles are on account of their model-newness - if a car is more than a decade old it's usually because it's a positive touchstone for automotive enthusiasts; we're not seeing 99 Honda Insights (are we? So many cars).

Honestly, if I were putting a station wagon in a game on account of its iconic-ness? Olds Vista Cruiser.

Except for Ford, that is: what other marques have non-motorsports cars that are more than a decade old?

 

[Luminis]

Except for Ford, that is: what other marques have non-motorsports cars that are more than a decade old?

• Aston Martin: 1977 V8 Vantage, V12 Vanquish
• Audi: RS2
• BMW: Z8
• Chevrolet: Bel Air, El Camino (?)
• DeLorean: DMC-12
• Dodge: Stealth Turbo R/T
• Eagle: Talon TSi Turbo
• Fiat: Coupe 2.0 20V Turo (?)
• GMC: Typhoon, Syclone
• Honda: CRx Del Sol SiR
• Lexus: SC300
• Lotus: Carlton
• Mazda: Mazdaspeed Familia
• Mitsubishi: FTO GP, Eclipse, GTO
• Nissan: S13 Silvia, S14 Silvia
• Suzuki: Liana GLX
• VW: Rabbit GTi

None of those cars have, to my knowledge every seen any factory-backed sort of motorsports.

 

[CWR63]

Motorsports may have been the wrong word, but factory-based wasn't what I was asking about - rather more 'desired by enthusiasts and/or used in professional or amateur motorsports' - Bel Air has been used in so many forms of racing, as has the VW GTi; both are revered by groups of enthusiasts. Anything on your list that's not desirable to enthusiasts is there because the marque already has all it's great cars represented and they're just casting around for anything - or it was used in a UK Top Gear: the Lotus Carlton.
Some are grandfathered in by having inexplicably been in the series forever like the Familia and the Eagle Talon.

 

[Luminis]

Motorsports may have been the wrong word, but factory-based wasn't what I was asking about - rather more 'desired by enthusiasts and/or used in professional or amateur motorsports' - Bel Air has been used in so many forms of racing, as has the VW GTi; both are revered by groups of enthusiasts. Anything on your list that's not desirable to enthusiasts is there because the marque already has all it's great cars represented and they're just casting around for anything - or it was used in a UK Top Gear: the Lotus Carlton.
Some are grandfathered in by having inexplicably been in the series forever like the Familia and the Eagle Talon.

So, basically, what you're saying is that you can come up with motorsport related uses of basically every car I've named, or some other reason why it's in the series.

I can apply that sort of reasoning for the Country Squire and the Pinto, too:

Someone, somewhen, somewhere put them to good use in some sort of motorsport. So, that's your use in professional/amateur motorsports. That said, I am fairly certain that nearly any car has been used in some form of motorsport.

And, personally, I'm more enthusiastic about these oddballs than, say, a Prius or a Volt.

 

[Populuxe]

Totally agree, Ford's not under-represented - I'm talking of how it's represented. Couldn't they have finished putting in the classics that had some fashion of motorsports association before releasing the infamous, um, notorious, erm, less classic models?

I see what you're saying, and I think you might be right. T10 is including several oddball US Fords in place of more sporting non-US Fords. I think it's no surprise that T10 has a US-centric view of the automotive world since they're an American-based company. But I think it's no different than PD being biased towards Japanese cars because they're a Japanese company.

A lot of people can get bent out of shape about that (I'm not suggesting you, your question is reasonable), but I have no problem with it, either from T10 or PD. To tell you the truth, I'd love it if there was a comparable racing game from Europe so we'd get better representation of European cars. Both T10 and PD come up short in that regard.

 

[CWR63]

That top pic is a Chevy Nova (also called the Chevy II) station wagon of the 66 Nova in the game, not a Ford Country Squire - even if you found a pic of the CS racing in some manner it still misses the point. I should have put the word substantial in there somewhere. I'm using the test where you imagine you're at a classic car show or motorsport event; how much of a crowd are you having to push through to see this car? Is it harder to see a Pinto or a 66 Shelby GT 350? Why is this car in the game when more significant or desirable cars are not?

If there were any indication those more desirable Fords would make it into the game I wouldn't begrudge these vehicles being in the DLC, but if, and I hope not, but if T10 doesn't like US Fords, then it'll only get worse, somehow.