Dragon Trail International Raceway-Seaside and Blue Moon Bay Speedway Showcase

[Matej]

Turn in downforce? You what?

The traction you get when you hit a banking road. If you steer at the right moment, it feels like you have been pulled in.

At any given height up the (variable) banking there's a speed at which the car will follow the curve with no steering input.

I agree, and that can be seen from the video as well.

And no, you don't necessarily need a tighter steering angle to clear the more banked outside line than a out-in-out line of lesser banking. You're thinking like a road racer, where the banking is never anywhere near what is achieved on ovals and so at best it's a wash between running the outside line or the smoothest line.

Tighter steering angle to clear less banked corners, that's what my post said. The corner is sharper so you need to steer more or slow down to clear the corner with the same speed as you would if you were driving on the outside. On the outside you need to travel more distance and there is less force acting on your car, since the road doesn't curve as much so tires have to rely on their own, not downforce.

That's what confuses me because in GT1-4 going outside on ovals would never produce good results (e.g. Super Speedway). Unless GTS uses a new banking physics, I just don't see why taking outside line should deliver lower times than traditional out-in-out while relying on turn-in downforce (or diving in, I'm not sure what's the best way to describe it).

Edit: Grammar

 

[TRGTspecialist]

Dragon Tail is way too unrealistic for my tastes

What do you find unrealistic about Dragon Trail? Some of the run-off areas are a bit questionable, but the layout itself is pretty conventional imo. Even the silly-wide kerbs wouldn't look that out of place at some real-world tracks.

 

[TypeRDC5]

Loving dragons trail now i have had some online racing, so many different lines for so many corners, perfect cutback got me from 4th to 2nd on the final lap

 

[karelpipa]

Dragontrail looks fabulous. Only 2 things are bad. Name of the circuit and too wide curbs (seriously, 2 car wide curbs are nonsense).
EDIT: oh, and the hairpin corner before the bay looks empty (off circuit details are minimal there)
EDIT: and its only for 400 Hp + cars
Could anyone try to drive it backwards?

That oval is a shame to the GT series and i will not lose any more time at it.

 

[WyldAnimal]

True, that's why they added the moon in GT6. Millions requested it.

I luved the Moon events. That was a great inclusion.
Soon we will colonize the moon, and we will have actual rally events on the moon.
Then we can look back and say PDI was ahead of their time!

Bring back the moon, I want a rally cross on the Moon!

 

[TRGTspecialist]

Soon we will colonize the moon, and we will have actual rally events on the moon.

Thanks for this - I never realised how much I'd want to see a moon version of Rally Finland, until now.

 

[GOTMAXPOWER]

I really like the new oval, at first it seemed a bit slow and awkward but once you understand the line you need to run (Which is about an inch away from the outside wall through both of the real corners) it's a great challenge with no margin of error.

 

[Johnnypenso]

I really like the new oval, at first it seemed a bit slow and awkward but once you understand the line you need to run (Which is about an inch away from the outside wall through both of the real corners) it's a great challenge with no margin of error.

Which means that slight contact that doesn't affect someone's SR, might send you into that wall.

 

[TeamCZRRacing]

Which means that slight contact that doesn't affect someone's SR, might send you into that wall.

As it should be. Sometimes, slight contact just happens, and it's not really anyone's fault.

 

[KevinConway]

That EVO is OP to the max at Dragon Trail, well it is everywhere but you get my point.

 

[Johnnypenso]

As it should be. Sometimes, slight contact just happens, and it's not really anyone's fault.

I believe you're missing the point. If slight contact doesn't result in loss of SR and it also sends you into the wall, people are going to take advantage of it. Track design and the SR system should go hand in hand.

 

[GOTMAXPOWER]

Which means that slight contact that doesn't affect someone's SR, might send you into that wall.

I hadn't really thought about that, the races I've done I've been at the front and ran away into the distance. I guess the actual racing will be like at Darlington since that is a single file track. The only risk is people dive-bombing into turn 1, I would hope the penalty system punishes those moves harshly enough to be a deterrent though. Slight contact with the wall shouldn't be a major problem, the cars don't seem to get glued to the barriers like in other games.

 

[ryandtw]

Blue Moon Bay is like Pocono, only it's shorter and higher banked...

 

[nascarfan1400]

Only watched oval video and IMO it's a terrible layout for a medium sized tri-oval. Corners are way too tight.

The fact that you just called it a Tri Oval shows how little you know about ovals

 

[MMX]

That EVO is OP to the max at Dragon Trail, well it is everywhere but you get my point.

The Audi TTS was giving it a run for the money today though. The 3rd race, four of the top five were Audi, with an Evo in fourth. I kept tweaking my gearing to try and make up for the lack of acceleration. The Evo's are strong coming out of the last turn on to the main straight, but the Audi I believe is better in the twisty bits.

 

[Imari]

That's what confuses me because in GT1-4 going outside on ovals would never produce good results (e.g. Super Speedway).

GT1-4 are not exactly a good example of realistic physics, not from a modern perspective anyway. Try comparing to reality. Do real oval racers sometimes go around the outside? They sure do.

Unless GTS uses a new banking physics, I just don't see why taking outside line should deliver lower times than traditional out-in-out while relying on turn-in downforce (or diving in, I'm not sure what's the best way to describe it).

Lol, banking physics. It's just called physics, mate.

And the reason why it should work like that is that's how it works in real life. I know that all simulators have their quirks where they deviate from reality, but you shouldn't be surprised when a game actually manages to accurately capture some of the nuance of reality.

I know we all make fun of Gran Turismo not being a particularly good sim, but let's try and give them credit for the things that they do well also.

The fact that you just called it a Tri Oval shows how little you know about ovals

It's a triangle based oval. Is that not correct? What should one call it?

I'm from Australia, so I'm more than willing to admit my ignorance in this matter. People had been comparing it to Pocono, which I believe is referred to as a tri-oval, and so I assumed it was as well.

Thanks for this - I never realised how much I'd want to see a moon version of Rally Finland, until now.

See, that would have been awesome. When they announced the moon thing, I totally expected them to go full fantasy and allow normal cars to rally around the moon. Stupid as all hell, but at least it would be entertaining flinging a Stratos around moon boulders.

As it should be. Sometimes, slight contact just happens, and it's not really anyone's fault.

It's true, especially with oval racing. On the other hand, that's why iRacing has 0x, so that incidental contact isn't punished unless it results in a more major accident.

 

[TRGTspecialist]

Which means that slight contact that doesn't affect someone's SR, might send you into that wall.

In the races I've had there, any time any sort of contact was about to happen through turns 1 and 3 (but not the shallower turn 2), cars would ghost out. Could have been just lag or a coincidence but I saw it enough times that it looked intentional, so maybe PD recognise these are problematic areas of the track. If so it would be a crude solution, but it did save a lot of grief.

 

[nascarfan1400]

GT1-4 are not exactly a good example of realistic physics, not from a modern perspective anyway. Try comparing to reality. Do real oval racers sometimes go around the outside? They sure do.



Lol, banking physics. It's just called physics, mate.

And the reason why it should work like that is that's how it works in real life. I know that all simulators have their quirks where they deviate from reality, but you shouldn't be surprised when a game actually manages to accurately capture some of the nuance of reality.

I know we all make fun of Gran Turismo not being a particularly good sim, but let's try and give them credit for the things that they do well also.



It's a triangle based oval. Is that not correct? What should one call it?

I'm from Australia, so I'm more than willing to admit my ignorance in this matter. People had been comparing it to Pocono, which I believe is referred to as a tri-oval, and so I assumed it was as well.



See, that would have been awesome. When they announced the moon thing, I totally expected them to go full fantasy and allow normal cars to rally around the moon. Stupid as all hell, but at least it would be entertaining flinging a Stratos around moon boulders.



It's true, especially with oval racing. On the other hand, that's why iRacing has 0x, so that incidental contact isn't punished unless it results in a more major accident.

Many call it a speedway or a superspeedway. (I personally call it a speedway) A tri oval would not be correct, as, if they werent already called Superspeedways/Plate tracks, Daytona and Talladega would be "tri oval" tracks. 👍

 

[jake2013guy]

Many call it a speedway or a superspeedway. (I personally call it a speedway) A tri oval would not be correct, as, if they werent already called Superspeedways/Plate tracks, Daytona and Talladega would be "tri oval" tracks. 👍

It's referred to as a tri-oval because it's got 3 corners. Why are Daytona and Talladega tri-ovals?

 

[KevinConway]

The Audi TTS was giving it a run for the money today though. The 3rd race, four of the top five were Audi, with an Evo in fourth. I kept tweaking my gearing to try and make up for the lack of acceleration. The Evo's are strong coming out of the last turn on to the main straight, but the Audi I believe is better in the twisty bits.

I tried my hardest to keep up with them but i will agree with you that the Audi does keep up in the whindy esses and coming into the last corner but they are hurt majorly on the main straight. My video from earlier

 

[nascarfan1400]

It's referred to as a tri-oval because it's got 3 corners. Why are Daytona and Talladega tri-ovals?

While i see where your coming from, the way ovals are classified in the states are based on their front stretch in relativity to the rest of the track. Auto Club, for example, is called a D-Oval, as it looks like a D from the track map. Charlotte Motor Speedway, Texas Motor Speedway, and Atlanta are all considered Quad-Ovals, as they all have 2 kinks opposed to one smooth turn. Dega and Daytona are tri ovals as they look triangular. Its weird how they classify it, but its just how it is. Tracks like Pocono and Homestead arent even called a ____-oval, as their front straightaway has no turn on it.

 

[bdj57]

Link to Blue Moon Bay Speedway:

When I see Blue Moon Bay the only thing popped in my head is this :



Edit : You guys might be more familiar with this:



Also, they should use rolling start in this track, I think they can do it back in GT4 so why not?

 

[Imari]

Many call it a speedway or a superspeedway. (I personally call it a speedway) A tri oval would not be correct, as, if they werent already called Superspeedways/Plate tracks, Daytona and Talladega would be "tri oval" tracks. 👍

My understanding that the speedway/superspeedway classifications were to do with the size of the track (and therefore the speeds likely to be reached).

The oval, tri-oval, D-oval, etc. are to do with the shape of the track.

These two things are not mutually exclusive. You could have a tri-oval speedway, or superspeedway, or even a tri-oval short track if you were so inclined. And you could use either term, or both, to describe the track depending on whether you wanted to emphasise the size or shape of the track.

Pocono refers to itself as "The Tricky Triangle". I figure if it's correct to refer to Pocono as a tri-oval (as Pocono themselves do), then BMB is too.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oval_track_racing
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tri-oval

 

[Johnnypenso]

The fact that you just called it a Tri Oval shows how little you know about ovals

From Pocono's own website:

2.5 MILE TRI-OVAL
This championship oval is a unique concept, bringing variety to oval racing. The design brings into play three different radius turns, three different lengths of straightaway, three different degrees of banking. The first turn has a radius of 675 feet and 14° of banking. The back straightaway is 3,055 feet in length. The second turn has a radius of 750 feet and 8° of banking. The short straightaway has a length of 1,780 feet.

Track: Pocono Raceway, a 2.5-mile tri-oval


Race distance: 160 laps / 400 miles
Twitter: @poconoraceway , #WhatTurn4, #PA400
Event website: www.poconoraceway.com 


NASCAR website: www.nascar.com

I expect you'll be in touch with the folks at Pocono to correct their agregious error.

 

[nascarfan1400]

My understanding that the speedway/superspeedway classifications were to do with the size of the track (and therefore the speeds likely to be reached).

The oval, tri-oval, D-oval, etc. are to do with the shape of the track.

These two things are not mutually exclusive. You could have a tri-oval speedway, or superspeedway, or even a tri-oval short track if you were so inclined. And you could use either term, or both, to describe the track depending on whether you wanted to emphasise the size or shape of the track.

Pocono refers to itself as "The Tricky Triangle". I figure if it's correct to refer to Pocono as a tri-oval (as Pocono themselves do), then BMB is too.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oval_track_racing
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tri-oval

You are correct. And...

From Pocono's own website:


I expect you'll be in touch with the folks at Pocono to correct their agregious error.

...While they themselves may refer to themselves a such, nobody on the NASCAR circuit refers to it as such. (Though I do admit, i stand corrected that they themselves say so.)

 

[vrossi]

I like the POP-IN. It gives GT Sport that "old school" look.

 

[diesel97]

nobody on the NASCAR circuit refers to it as such

I think you are way wrong on that statement and makes no sense. The reason it is called "the tricky triangle" even on their own web pages is because drives and fans have coined it that.

 

[lancia delta hf]

I luved the Moon events. That was a great inclusion.
Soon we will colonize the moon, and we will have actual rally events on the moon.
Then we can look back and say PDI was ahead of their time!

Bring back the moon, I want a rally cross on the Moon!

It's all about the Mars now.

 

[Adam41]

I don't like the kerbs at Dragontail. This is the first time I've had it at this kerb, but the kerb on the last apex of the esses is even worse for it.



Who's ever idea it was to then add a similar kerb to the bus stop like chicane near the coast where you have to mount it with all 4 wheels might have forgot the game was focused on (clean) online racing. Cars like the Genesis sometimes bounce awkwardly off it and you're a passenger.

 

[EDK]

Dragontrail looks fabulous. Only 2 things are bad. Name of the circuit and too wide curbs (seriously, 2 car wide curbs are nonsense).
EDIT: oh, and the hairpin corner before the bay looks empty (off circuit details are minimal there)
EDIT: and its only for 400 Hp + cars
Could anyone try to drive it backwards?

That oval is a shame to the GT series and i will not lose any more time at it.

Reminds me of this.

The Audi TTS was giving it a run for the money today though. The 3rd race, four of the top five were Audi, with an Evo in fourth. I kept tweaking my gearing to try and make up for the lack of acceleration. The Evo's are strong coming out of the last turn on to the main straight, but the Audi I believe is better in the twisty bits.

I could kind of hang in my TTS, we might have been in a room or two together yesterday, I was in a party chat that GTP_OZ was also in, and he and I had two races together (I see he was in the room on your vid, I was not).

Biggest issue I had was getting punted, especially in the heavy braking zones. But the Audi was very good in the falling left hand turn and the climb up the hill. Also was quite good through the fast kink/chicane toward the end of the lap.