Drifting Physics - Different in Drift Trial/Practice?

[souldrifting]

@TwinturboCH

You definantly have a lot more experience than i do with drifting and in some ways it seems to be a matter of preference as too which physics are better.

I find drift physics better as it generally seems more controllable, and drifting in real life from my experience isnt as hard as it is in GT5 even with same car/spec.

Although once again perspective is from drifting a 200hp s13, not a 400-500hp R33.

I think the highest i got on the seasonal event was 150th place with around 16K points, but i dont know exactly know how the drifting system in gt5 works yet.

 

[articzap]

@TwinturboCH

I agree sticker tires should be snappier, but the cheap tires in this game should not feel snappy. Go in drift mod and drift on something like s2's. I bet you get that snappy feeling.

Hope that makes sense.

 

[TwinturboCH]

I find drift physics better as it generally seems more controllable, and drifting in real life from my experience isnt as hard as it is in GT5 even with same car/spec.

That's the point It IS easier to drift in real life. This is what I'm saying. Learn to drift in GT5 and the start drifting in real life and it's SERIOUSLY easy. Learn to drift in real life and then try in game, and it's almost impossible. You have more input to your brain in real life (gravity forces for a start) and so when you try in game, you have less telling you what the car is doing.

@TwinturboCH

I agree sticker tires should be snappier, but the cheap tires in this game should not feel snappy. Go in drift mod and drift on something like s2's. I bet you get that snappy feeling.

Hope that makes sense.

As far as I can see, yes, to make learning to drift easier, they could have made the base tyres nice and progressive, but this is supposed to be the ultimate physics engine, and I think it's about as true to life as it can get with current hardware.

 

[SLAPHAPPYFRANKY]

I'm referring to how tire grip acts when they get hot. It acts different in each mode. In drift mode the car will wash wide. In practice it seems to have no effect and in aspec or online you spin out. The point is, the game should be exactly the same in all modes, period.

I haven't noticed the difference from practice to A-spec/online. I'll have to try it out later and see if I feel one. You can feel it foresure in the drift mode.

The thing I felt the most in drift mode is the car transitions slower and has less grip.

 

[souldrifting]

That's the point It IS easier to drift in real life. This is what I'm saying. Learn to drift in GT5 and the start drifting in real life and it's SERIOUSLY easy. Learn to drift in real life and then try in game, and it's almost impossible. You have more input to your brain in real life (gravity forces for a start) and so when you try in game, you have less telling you what the car is doing.

Spot on there, now if only it was as easy to drift in gt5 lol!

 

[articzap]

That's the point It IS easier to drift in real life. This is what I'm saying. Learn to drift in GT5 and the start drifting in real life and it's SERIOUSLY easy. Learn to drift in real life and then try in game, and it's almost impossible. You have more input to your brain in real life (gravity forces for a start) and so when you try in game, you have less telling you what the car is doing.


As far as I can see, yes, to make learning to drift easier, they could have made the base tyres nice and progressive, but this is supposed to be the ultimate physics engine, and I think it's about as true to life as it can get with current hardware.

N1 tires would be equivalent to that of an all season tire. Those would have a very loose slide. You keep trying to say every tire in this game should have almost slick like properties.

 

[TwinturboCH]

N1 tires would be equivalent to that of an all season tire. Those would have a very loose slide.

No they shouldn't. When have you ever heard of people using an 'all season' tyre on a race track? Even on track days people don't do it. N1/Comfort Hard tyres should be a budget hard compound tyre like a pirelli P6000 or similar, therefore, with a properly set up car, they still won't be a progressive as some people think they should be.

You keep trying to say every tire in this game should have almost slick like properties.

No I don't, I've never said that. I've driven a LOT of drift cars (probably in excess of 70-80), a well set up car, even on terrible tyres, is still snappy because that is what is required to perform some of the manoevers we attempt.

The game recreates this fact VERY well. The problem is, new drifters are taking setups from experienced drifters and then saying it's hard to drift. No, you just have a setup that is too advanced for you.

The fact is, when you are learning in GT5, just as in real life, certain things will make your car more progressive. 3-4 degrees of camber on the back will make a car less 'snappy' for a start, because it reduces the tyre's contact patch on the road etc. A lot of real world drifters who are just starting out run this kind of setup without even realising it because lowering most cars without fitting camber correction arms leads to higher than stock rear camber. I'd be willing to bet this is the issue with 'souldrifting' and many others, they drive a stock-ish/lowered s13 in real life, with around 3-4 degrees of camber, then they drive a well setup car in GT5 (cambered front, flat rear) and say 'OMG, it's not like my real drift car', well of course it's not, it's a completely different setup! LOL

 

[articzap]

No they shouldn't. When have you ever heard of people using an 'all season' tyre on a race track? Even on track days people don't do it. N1/Comfort Hard tyres should be a budget hard compound tyre like a pirelli P6000 or similar, therefore, with a properly set up car, they still won't be a progressive as some people think they should be.


No I don't, I've never said that. I've driven a LOT of drift cars (probably in excess of 70-80), a well set up car, even on terrible tyres, is still snappy because that is what is required to perform some of the manoevers we attempt.

The game recreates this fact VERY well. The problem is, new drifters are taking setups from experienced drifters and then saying it's hard to drift. No, you just have a setup that is too advanced for you.

The fact is, when you are learning in GT5, just as in real life, certain things will make your car more progressive. 3-4 degrees of camber on the back will make a car less 'snappy' for a start, because it reduces the tyre's contact patch on the road etc. A lot of real world drifters who are just starting out run this kind of setup without even realising it because lowering most cars without fitting camber correction arms leads to higher than stock rear camber. I'd be willing to bet this is the issue with 'souldrifting' and many others, they drive a stock-ish/lowered s13 in real life, with around 3-4 degrees of camber, then they drive a well setup car in GT5 (cambered front, flat rear) and say 'OMG, it's not like my real drift car', well of course it's not, it's a completely different setup! LOL

You bring up some valid points on setup. Although to little camber can also act like to much camber because you end up on the outside edge. Regardless, I just feel that drift mode feels closer to what I've experienced in real life given setups, power, and tire choice. And I do feel as if an N1 is far less of a tire then a P6000. But without insight for from PD about physics and tire models, whats more real is just based of off each persons interpretation.

What do you think of the FFB? Seems a little late to responding, IMO.

 

[TwinturboCH]

What do you think of the FFB? Seems a little late to responding, IMO.

Depends on the car and your setup to be honest, like in real life.

I find I have to 'help' the steering far more with things like BMW's than I do with the likes of the Nissans. With the Nissan's they almost drive themselves.

What wheel are you using? For me, the game feels completely different on my DFP, compared to my G25. The G25 makes it feel awesome, the DFP, well, not so much LOL

 

[articzap]

Depends on the car and your setup to be honest, like in real life.

I find I have to 'help' the steering far more with things like BMW's than I do with the likes of the Nissans. With the Nissan's they almost drive themselves.

What wheel are you using? For me, the game feels completely different on my DFP, compared to my G25. The G25 makes it feel awesome, the DFP, well, not so much LOL

I use a DFP. I really wish we were given caster settings.

 

[TwinturboCH]

I use a DFP. I really wish we were given caster settings.

Sadly, the DFP is half your problem, it can't react as fast as the game tells it to. My G25 is night and day better than my DFP. With the G25 I can really take liberties with the car that I couldn't hope to pull off with the DFP.

 

[souldrifting]

I'd be willing to bet this is the issue with 'souldrifting' and many others, they drive a stock-ish/lowered s13 in real life, with around 3-4 degrees of camber, then they drive a well setup car in GT5 (cambered front, flat rear) and say 'OMG, it's not like my real drift car', well of course it's not, it's a completely different setup! LOL

Getting off topic here arent we? Were talking about physics not setups, as ive said i can drift perfectly in drift mode with any car and any set up, however i find it alot more difficult to drift in an open lobby, so in that case its not nothing to do with setups.

Now a game is never gonna feel like real life as there are so many factors that do not exist in a game such as weight shifting,fear, loss of traction and many others that im sure you know about.

However the point is a game should have 1 set of physics not 2. Its almost like setting time trial races to have mega grippy race wheels but when doing an open lobby they will have 50% less grip.

Question is simple: why are there 2 different types of physics.

 

[davelis]

i have to back to the game to check but good job dudez!

my point: even if there is a slight change in physics,it doesnt feel as unnatural(even for arcade) as it is in NFS SHIFT games

 

[Goracle]

I read somewhere, in the tuning forums, that there's more oversteer when you play online compared to playing offline.

 

[JrDarknes]

I read somewhere, in the tuning forums, that there's more oversteer when you play online compared to playing offline.

That is what it seems like. I tuned my r33 perfect offline but tried it online and it would oversteer a bit making me upset o_o

 

[Lazy Liquid]

I read somewhere, in the tuning forums, that there's more oversteer when you play online compared to playing offline.

Thats why i like to finetune my cars inside the lobbies.

BTW, has anyone notice that when you spectate online someone drifting, rarely the RPM goes above from 4k?

 

[uncle_hayley_j]

I find drifting offline a real pain, like on the trial's... It's like I can drift beautifully in lobbys, come to the trial crap and it's awful, it's really annoying tbh.

 

[PghBest]

Thats why i like to finetune my cars inside the lobbies.

BTW, has anyone notice that when you spectate online someone drifting, rarely the RPM goes above from 4k?

omg yes I have and I thought it was just me why is that I try so hard to make my cars do that epic fail every time

 

[D-Max]

It's not so much the difference between drift trial and other modes. You have more grip running offline events than you do running online events, that is where the difference lies. Drifting offline is far too easy/fast for me personally as you have A lot of grip but, take it online and you lose the easy handling in the cars and gives you more of A challenge!

 

[gt addict]

:tup:This.

Happened to me today. I was trying the Loeb challenges and the car was acting like it was suffering from extremely bad turbo lag, then I realized the TCS was on 5...MAGICALLY.

Same here. The game just randomly switches all those settings and tires from racing softs to the sports hard tires. Sometimes I'm in a race and I can't turn as well and if i'm drifting it won't drift because it puts tcs on 5.

For my drift car online I love the Nissan gtr pace car with around 450hp and some hard tires I can drift really well in it for some reason just hit the e-brake and turn in and it just looks beautiful with a nice trail of tire smoke.