Drop The Motorsport? - Forza 6 and onwards?

[FordGTGuy]

Okay, so quoting something from a dictionary is easy. However in reality, how is motorsport practiced? No rules? Just bashing and trashing to get to the finish line first without respecting your opponents? Ramming your car through the first corner to get in front? Just keep going full speed through a car pile up? Race through the pit lane while your mechanics magically fix your car and pump gas in it without stopping?

No, none of that. They call it Forza Motorsport because they want it to be a simulation of the world of motorsport, but it's not. It´s an arcade game pretending to be a simulation and a dictionary entry can't do anything about that. As much as I love the Forza series of games, I would very much like it to be more like iRacing and other real simulations. If it was all optional that would be okay, then everyone can choose for themselves what they define motorsport.

Motorsport is a general and broad term, let's leave it at that.

If it was called Forza F1 or Forza ALMS you might have a point.

There is absolutely no point you've brought forward that would justify removing Motorsport from its name and you're only digging yourself into a deeper hole.

BTW compared to real life iRacing is just a arcade game trying to put up a facade of simulation so get off the high horse.

 

[Exorcet]

Okay, so quoting something from a dictionary is easy. However in reality, how is motorsport practiced? No rules? Just bashing and trashing to get to the finish line first without respecting your opponents? Ramming your car through the first corner to get in front? Just keep going full speed through a car pile up? Race through the pit lane while your mechanics magically fix your car and pump gas in it without stopping?

No, none of that. They call it Forza Motorsport because they want it to be a simulation of the world of motorsport, but it's not. It´s an arcade game pretending to be a simulation and a dictionary entry can't do anything about that. As much as I love the Forza series of games, I would very much like it to be more like iRacing and other real simulations. If it was all optional that would be okay, then everyone can choose for themselves what they define motorsport.

Calling Forza an arcade game is ridiculous, simple racing or not. Yes it lacks real life series rules (this is a very minor offense anyway, even for a hardcore simulator) and leaves out things like qualification and proper damage management, but the core focus which is driving physics is very strong. Simulators can favor one aspect of what they're simulating over another. Forza does this. I think it goes too far in dumbing down racing in some respect, but in no way is it a strictly arcade experience. Forza 4 gave you the options to make some very good races that I think for the most part could be on par with PC sims in terms of immersion and fun.

 

[HAL20XX]

Can anyone explain to me why the personal interpretation of the word should hold more weight over the actual definition of the word?

 

[McLaren]

We learned long ago that once you start referring to Forza or GT as arcade games, your opinion loses any validity it may have had.

 

[Symtex]

Why even bother debating with theses people. They live in a bubble.

 

[Wolfe]

Can anyone explain to me why the personal interpretation of the word should hold more weight over the actual definition of the word?

If we effectively consider "Forza" the name of a particular motorsport in which one extensively modified (and occasionally liveried) roadcar squares off against a handful of other roadcars in a 3-lap sprint around a circuit with no penalties or required pit stops or anything, the definition is perfectly good enough. But no one can deny T10 could do more to replicate an authentic sanctioned motorsports experience, least of all when you enter one of those events with ALMS cars or such.

Scrutinizing the title itself is pretty pointless, and I think the game is simply what it was always meant to be -- a Gran Turismo clone -- but it's a valid criticism to wish Turn 10 would invest into more "motorsport" features.

Calling Forza an arcade game is ridiculous, simple racing or not. Yes it lacks real life series rules (this is a very minor offense anyway, even for a hardcore simulator) and leaves out things like qualification and proper damage management, but the core focus which is driving physics is very strong. Simulators can favor one aspect of what they're simulating over another. Forza does this. I think it goes too far in dumbing down racing in some respect, but in no way is it a strictly arcade experience. Forza 4 gave you the options to make some very good races that I think for the most part could be on par with PC sims in terms of immersion and fun.

We learned long ago that once you start referring to Forza or GT as arcade games, your opinion loses any validity it may have had.

I don't think @Melting Brains meant what you think he meant. In the context of physics and handling, yes, Forza is a simulator. But in terms of general gameplay (not the driving itself), career progression, options, rules, and so forth, Forza isn't much of a "simulation" of anything...except some wacky fictional sport as I described above. I don't think it's unfair to call it arcade-style gameplay with a simulator driving model. And that's not a bad thing. I'd wager that combo -- accessible and easy-to-understand gameplay with authentic driving -- is what makes games like Gran Turismo and Forza so successful.

I'd still call the game a simulator, because physics/handling are usually the first thing anyone thinks of.

 

[Exorcet]

If we effectively consider "Forza" the name of a particular motorsport in which one extensively modified (and occasionally liveried) roadcar squares off against a handful of other roadcars in a 3-lap sprint around a circuit with no penalties or required pit stops or anything, the definition is perfectly good enough. But no one can deny T10 could do more to replicate an authentic sanctioned motorsports experience, least of all when you enter one of those events with ALMS cars or such.

Forza (and GT) does do more than this. It just doesn't show up in the career. I know for some people, this is considered a downside, but for me it's the best it can be. I'm grateful that the devs are out there making these games, but I don't want to bother with their career modes. I can set up races myself.

Scrutinizing the title itself is pretty pointless, and I think the game is simply what it was always meant to be -- a Gran Turismo clone -- but it's a valid criticism to wish Turn 10 would invest into more "motorsport" features.

Agreed.

I don't think @Melting Brains meant what you think he meant. In the context of physics and handling, yes, Forza is a simulator. But in terms of general gameplay (not the driving itself), career progression, options, rules, and so forth, Forza isn't much of a "simulation" of anything...except some wacky fictional sport as I described above. I don't think it's unfair to call it arcade-style gameplay with a simulator driving model. And that's not a bad thing. I'd wager that combo -- accessible and easy-to-understand gameplay with authentic driving -- is what makes games like Gran Turismo and Forza so successful.

I'd still call the game a simulator, because physics/handling are usually the first thing anyone thinks of.

I think calling the career mode of either game arcade is fair since there is nothing remotely realistic about their structure. However both games can do a fair job of simulating a 2hr ALMS race. How much work that requires to set up will vary with how deep you want to do, but it's possible. A true arcade game makes such a thing impossible.

except some wacky fictional sport

I think too much is spent going over this point. Yes as a whole the racing series in GT/Forza are fictional. I don't think that has much impact on their standing as simulators. It matters to a game like F1 20XX for obvious reasons, but Forza/GT are still simulating motorsport even when they aren't simulating a particular motorsport.

The wackiness on the other hand can be an issue, but then again this is a real [motor]sport:



Minivans racing side by side with old race cars doesn't seem so crazy in comparison. It's not like you couldn't have such an event if you wanted to.

 

[Melting Brains]

I don't think @Melting Brains meant what you think he meant. In the context of physics and handling, yes, Forza is a simulator. But in terms of general gameplay (not the driving itself), career progression, options, rules, and so forth, Forza isn't much of a "simulation" of anything...except some wacky fictional sport as I described above. I don't think it's unfair to call it arcade-style gameplay with a simulator driving model. And that's not a bad thing. I'd wager that combo -- accessible and easy-to-understand gameplay with authentic driving -- is what makes games like Gran Turismo and Forza so successful.

I'd still call the game a simulator, because physics/handling are usually the first thing anyone thinks of.

Yes, thank you for clarifying that. That is exactly what I meant. English is not my native tongue, so expressing myself properly is difficult at times, especially when we're arguing over dictionary definitions. I didn´t mean to define Forza or GT as arcade games; the physics are very well done and give me a lot of pleasure and thrills, but the career mode especially is very much arcade in its setup and progression.