Drugs

[ExigeEvan]

You know, there is a simple way to take care of everything mentioned in your post here. Make it legal and regulated by government. Suddenly shipping is done by shipping companies and farms are managed by shift supervisors, etc.

Except how do you value drugs? Plenty of people can get hold of drugs in an underground trade where premiums are high, and many steal now so that they can fund this habit.

So how do you price it? More expensive, it'll obviousley need to cover the cost of social and medical problems caused (From the view point of socialist britain).

But then if you legalize it it'll be come cheaper as the market will be huge, yeah? So now you have more people using drugs and oh wait, you need to cover those (socialist) health bills.

The way I look at it, you can't compare it to alcohol. £10 for a litre of vodka, that'll put you out for a few hours easy. How much is enough coke to supress an addicts addiction for the night?

 

[TheCracker]

 

[ExigeEvan]

It came up in the "performance enhancing drugs" thread, but it wasn't really inkeeping with the topic, so I brought here for a quick re-airing.

Any problem with that?

 

[FoolKiller]

Except how do you value drugs? Plenty of people can get hold of drugs in an underground trade where premiums are high, and many steal now so that they can fund this habit.

So how do you price it? More expensive, it'll obviousley need to cover the cost of social and medical problems caused (From the view point of socialist britain).

But then if you legalize it it'll be come cheaper as the market will be huge, yeah? So now you have more people using drugs and oh wait, you need to cover those (socialist) health bills.

The way I look at it, you can't compare it to alcohol. £10 for a litre of vodka, that'll put you out for a few hours easy. How much is enough coke to supress an addicts addiction for the night?

It'll be cheaper because it will no longer be overly expensive to produce and a large chunk of the supply won't be taken out everytime a cop happens upon the right place. The supply will be easier and cheaper to create and it wouldn't be drained on by law enforcment confiscating all they can find.

If socialist countries want to tax it in a way to provide the healthcare necessary then so be it. They already do it to tobacco and alcohol.

But also, some addicts will be more likely to come forward in an attempt to get off of the drug much like they do cigarettes and alcohol because the stigma won't be as huge. You will have some who wouldn't have tried it for legal reasons become addicts and those who want to quit but are afraid of being arrested if they come forward and ask for help who actually try to quit.


And of course how much crime surrounds the drug trade? People steal to fund a habit that is overpriced due to its illegal nature, people get killed for knowing too much, crossing each other's territory, some women even go into prostitution to fund their addiction. If it is easily available and cheaper then all this will decrease.

 

[Year.Zero]

It'll be cheaper because it will no longer be overly expensive to produce and a large chunk of the supply won't be taken out everytime a cop happens upon the right place. The supply will be easier and cheaper to create and it wouldn't be drained on by law enforcment confiscating all they can find.

If socialist countries want to tax it in a way to provide the healthcare necessary then so be it. They already do it to tobacco and alcohol.

But also, some addicts will be more likely to come forward in an attempt to get off of the drug much like they do cigarettes and alcohol because the stigma won't be as huge. You will have some who wouldn't have tried it for legal reasons become addicts and those who want to quit but are afraid of being arrested if they come forward and ask for help who actually try to quit.


And of course how much crime surrounds the drug trade? People steal to fund a habit that is overpriced due to its illegal nature, people get killed for knowing too much, crossing each other's territory, some women even go into prostitution to fund their addiction. If it is easily available and cheaper then all this will decrease.

You're forgetting that many of these drugs were legal at one point, and then made illegal for a reason.

 

[FoolKiller]

You're forgetting that many of these drugs were legal at one point, and then made illegal for a reason.

And what is that reason?


In a world where certain foods can be banned just because they raise chioletsreol you have to truly examine why. Most drugs weren't illegal at start because the government did not exactly know of their existence.

You also have to realize that the laws regarding drugs were made at a time when religion and morality laws were common, so they were designed to protect people from themselves. Alcohol was swept up in this as well but we brought that back.

 

[Sage]

You're forgetting that many of these drugs were legal at one point, and then made illegal for a reason.

Just like when the US government banned alcohol in the 1920s – I mean, the government is always right and always knows what’s best for us, correct?

 

[Year.Zero]

Just like when the US government banned alcohol in the 1920s – I mean, the government is always right and always knows what’s best for us, correct?

I never said it was right. Just that they had a reason, and for the same one and a few new ones it probably won't be made legal again.

 

[Sage]

Oh, okay. That’s a valid point then. Although I think that within my lifetime, we’ll see (at least) marijuana legalized. My generation seems way liberal on softer drugs/substances.

And this thread reminds me of a quote:

If you can just convince the dope people that the gun people are right and the gun people that the dope people are right, we could actually live in a lot more freedom. – Penn Jillettes

 

[kevinm]

I think it'd be interesting to bring this back up.

I'd like to contribute and say that I think marijuana should be legalized. The common misconception that it is a dangerous drug is what is holding legalization back. The way I see it, is that if you are able to use marijuana in private, or possibly in specified public areas, and are able to go to work the next day, pay your taxes, and otherwise be a responsible citizen, then we should be able to do it. If you tell somebody that you smoke marijuana, all of a sudden their views about you will negatively change. This is because for the longest time it has been illegal, and portrayed as a horrible drug. This is not right, because nobody frowns on people who have the occasional few drinks. The law on alchohol is that you can't drive, and there is a limit on how much you can drink. If followed, the laws help save lives and ensure that alcohol is used responsibly. Why wouldn't the same apply to marijuana? In fact, when marijuana users are high, they are mostly peaceful. But everybody knows that a drunk person can have their mood swing on the drop of a hat. That's where the real threat is. Marijuana users don't hurt anybody! In fact, much of our society is dependant upon marijuana users, and most people don't even know it! Millions of Americans use, and will use, marijuana regardless of whether it is legal or not. Where do you want your tax dollars to go? To help the police find a peaceful pothead, so they don't have to deal with serious crime like the murderers, rapists, and other criminals who pose a much larger threat than a marijuana user. Oaksterdam- in California- has proved that marijuana can be positive. It used to be run down, and upon legalization of marijuana, the economy boomed and a healthy, thriving and peaceful society ensued. This formula can, and would work, anywhere in the U.S. It's time that the excuses stop, and our voices are heard! -kevin

 

[homeforsummer]

Marijuana users don't hurt anybody!

Apart from themselves. It affects cognitive abilities, increases paranoia, and generally turns people into wasters. And these are the opinions I've heard of people who've taken much harder stuff than pot, but have completely stopped smoking it because they just tended to sit about all day getting high and wasting away their lives. At least on the harder drugs they tended to have a hit once or twice on a night, and spend the day actually going to college, or working, or generally not doing sod all.

I'm all for it being legalised - it's people's own perogative if they want to take it. If people want to take risks with drugs, so be it. I don't drink much at the moment but I have in the past. There are plenty of risks with alcohol, but for the small few who get punched in the face, or put their car through a hedge (or a wall, and get banned from driving, as a mate's brother recently did), the vast majority don't get into any trouble and live another day.

Apart from anything, legalising weed will bring the street value down and the section of society that currently needs to steal to finance their addiction might not need to steal as much, improving society as a whole. In theory.

 

[Max Powers]

Apart from themselves.

Well, isn't that their decision then?

 

[kevinm]

True that HFS! Marijuana isn't nearly as bad for the body as cigarettes and possibly alcohol, and the benefits you get for expanding your mind far outweigh the harm! -kevin

 

[Azuremen]

Well, isn't that their decision then?

Sure as hell should be. And that is what he says.

The waster bit and such depends a lot on the person. And the usage. For some people, like myself, that are mad high strung and always have their brain going a million miles an hour, it is quite nice. I actually focus on a single thing, and tend to get quite a bit done on it, whether it is homework, cleaning, or a video game.

Other people just tend to sit there and stare at the ceiling. And it is those people that turn into the wasters.

 

[ExigeEvan]

They only reason I'd support the legalisation of marijuana is to reduce the black-market production. It's often young people and vulnerable immigrants that end up tending to the dens due to debts or threats from gangs.

 

[Keef]

I just had to comment. I've never seen this thread before, and the first thing that popped into my head was that famous line from South Park. I wasn't disappointed!

 

[CDailey]

I just had to comment. I've never seen this thread before, and the first thing that popped into my head was that famous line from South Park. I wasn't disappointed!

Lies! See below.

I think drugs like heroine and cocaine are illegal because they turn those who take them into ugly monstrosities really quick. Alcohol is still legal because you need it to make these druggies look pretty again.

 

[Omnis]

True that HFS! Marijuana isn't nearly as bad for the body as cigarettes and possibly alcohol, and the benefits you get for expanding your mind far outweigh the harm! -kevin

Far out, dude!

 

[Zrow]

Apart from themselves. It affects cognitive abilities, increases paranoia, and generally turns people into wasters. And these are the opinions I've heard of people who've taken much harder stuff than pot, but have completely stopped smoking it because they just tended to sit about all day getting high and wasting away their lives. At least on the harder drugs they tended to have a hit once or twice on a night, and spend the day actually going to college, or working, or generally not doing sod all.

You know, that can be right, but unless you're a stoner it's not even this bad. I've done it occasionally (three to four times), and every time has been a fun or interesting experience. No harm has ever come to me from smoking pot.

I understand that you think it should be legalized, but even this attitude misrepresents the "harm" of occasional smoking. Of course alcohol harms you if you're an alcoholic, but if not, having a drink every once in a while doesn't.

 

[homeforsummer]

True that HFS! Marijuana isn't nearly as bad for the body as cigarettes and possibly alcohol, and the benefits you get for expanding your mind far outweigh the harm! -kevin

I just have to add the term "LOL" at this point. Expanding your mind my arse. Read a book, that'll expand your mind.

And everyone knows the Beatles wrote their worst stuff whilst high.

And you do realise that by smoking weed you're still inhaling microscopic particles deep into your lungs, don't you? Just like a cigarette? And unless you've got good quality weed it's still likely to have plenty of chemicals in. You'll be inhaling those too.

Well, isn't that their decision then?

Did I say it wasn't?...

You know, that can be right, but unless you're a stoner it's not even this bad. I've done it occasionally (three to four times), and every time has been a fun or interesting experience. No harm has ever come to me from smoking pot.

I understand that you think it should be legalized, but even this attitude misrepresents the "harm" of occasional smoking. Of course alcohol harms you if you're an alcoholic, but if not, having a drink every once in a while doesn't.

I agree, and as ever, it's "abuse" of a substance (any substance) that causes problems, but it always makes me laugh when people claim that weed is harmless. As I mentioned, I know enough (intelligent) people who took it too far and called it a day before they wasted their lives away.

Alcohol is only really harmful in the wrong hands anyway, with regards to things like violence. I believe that some people have violence intrinsically stored in their personality and these are the ones that go too far with alcohol. I've got madly drunk before with my mates, on the other hand, and we're all still completely good-natured when we're wasted. Probably more so, in fact, because we just get silly None of us are stupid enough to drink drive either, so even when we do "abuse" alcohol all that happens is we wake the next day feeling pretty rough...

The other reason I've never really seen the point in weed, or cigarettes even, is that I'm too laid back and fairly quiet, so something that makes me even more laid back and even more quiet is unnecessary! Alcohol on the other hand brings me out of my shell a bit, so from a social point of view a bit of booze is beneficial to me.

 

[Bram Turismo]

Of course alcohol harms you if you're an alcoholic, but if not, having a drink every once in a while doesn't.

Half true. It's the usage that desides how bad it is for you. Drinking once in a while is not dangerous, no. But drinking that once in a while way too much is dangerous, yes. A friend of mine has been raped two weeks ago after drinking herself drunk. How many beers on earth did you need to drink to get so drunk that 3 guys rape you?! She hasn't been going to school the whole previous week, but she was at school this week. What I can't understand is how she manages to act completely normal, as if nothing happened. In fact, what did she do yesterday? She got drunk

 

[Lucas]

As the second post of this thread, I believe Duke is completely right.
It's okay to do drugs, but only if you don't kill me in the highway!!

 

[Keef]

Lies! See below.

Well you know when you're on the sort of stuff I am you just can't remember that far back.

 

[Nicksfix]

I don't care for drugs and or the use of drugs,unless for medicinal purposes only.

Now I have a question about alcohol :

Why is is that our government can take an 18 year old " kid ",put him in uniform,send his ass across the pond to fight for our country,get shot,killed,but he cannot "legally" have a beer / drink until he's 21 ? Whats more dangerous,being shot at,or having a beer ?

 

[mindwise]

Bear with me homeforsummer

I just have to add the term "LOL" at this point. Expanding your mind my arse. Read a book, that'll expand your mind.

That depends on the book, does it not? i think there are very popular books that seem to do the opposite.

Moreover, the 'expands your mind' thing i agree is an overstatement. Yet, for example while playing video games, for me, it does make the experience more intense. Perception is changed, let's keep it at that, and to me for instance while racing it seems 'enhanced'. Whether or not i actually run quicker laps is beside the point, i perceive to drive quicker and am more immersed.

And you do realise that by smoking weed you're still inhaling microscopic particles deep into your lungs, don't you? Just like a cigarette?

Sure we do. Just like you realize that when you drive on the high way you are inhaling microscopic particles deep into your lungs, and that that's even worse for ciclists/pedestrians etc that live in cities..

There are alternatives, bake a spacecake or use a cannabis inhaler.

And unless you've got good quality weed it's still likely to have plenty of chemicals in. You'll be inhaling those too.

Which is one of the arguments for legalization. Quality control.
(not saying you are against legalization)

Alcohol is only really harmful in the wrong hands anyway...... I've got madly drunk before with my mates

Yes, well getting madly drunk is actually harmfull.

on the other hand, and we're all still completely good-natured when we're wasted. Probably more so, in fact, because we just get silly

Yeah, silly like a song the Beatles composed while they were high ??
More good natured, how does that relate to the 'expand your mind' you critisized?

None of us are stupid enough to drink drive either, so even when we do "abuse" alcohol all that happens is we wake the next day feeling pretty rough...

No, 'feeling a bit rough the next day' is actually not 'all that happens', it's all you notice.

The other reason I've never really seen the point in weed, or cigarettes even, is that I'm too laid back and fairly quiet, so something that makes me even more laid back and even more quiet is unnecessary! Alcohol on the other hand brings me out of my shell a bit, so from a social point of view a bit of booze is beneficial to me.

A bit of 'xtc' might be even better then ;p
just kidding of course
i'll happily with you in a bar (and get silly), since i don't smoke in pubic.

 

[homeforsummer]

Bear with me homeforsummer

Of course

That depends on the book, does it not? i think there are very popular books that seem to do the opposite.

Well probably, but even bad books can help reduce illiteracy. If fewer people were smoking weed and more were reading books the internet would certainly be a less infuriating place!

Moreover, the 'expands your mind' thing i agree is an overstatement. Yet, for example while playing video games, for me, it does make the experience more intense. Perception is changed, let's keep it at that, and to me for instance while racing it seems 'enhanced'. Whether or not i actually run quicker laps is beside the point, i perceive to drive quicker and am more immersed.

Are you referring to weed here? I've played games drunk before and it doesn't seem to have much effect, to be honest, but I've never played games absolutely wasted. I came in from an average night out once and went on GT4, and set a lap time around the 'Ring in a BMW 330i only a second slower than my sober attempt I wouldn't attempt the same thing in real life though...

Which is one of the arguments for legalization. Quality control.
(not saying you are against legalization)

I'm certainly not against legalisation, as you'll see by reading my previous posts 👍 And if it were legalised, vendors would have to label it and list the ingredients like they have to with food, which would make it much safer. Though still not particularly good for you.

Yes, well getting madly drunk is actually harmfull.

It depends how often you do it. I haven't had a beer in probably a month or so - if I went out and got drunk tonight, my body would probably have lower resistance to the alcohol, but my liver would only get a night's worth of punishment and plenty of time to recover. I also tend to have a pint of water when I come in from a night out, which goes some way to restoring the balance.

Of course it's harmful if you binge drink regularly, but then it's harmful if you have too much of anything, really.

Yeah, silly like a song the Beatles composed while they were high ??
More good natured, how does that relate to the 'expand your mind' you critisized?

I know friends who've written far better songs when they've been drunk than the Beatles wrote when they were high. The Beatles just had the benefit of already having a record contract...

As for "good natured", it doesn't relate to the "expand your mind" comment that I criticised, unless I'm missing your implication.

No, 'feeling a bit rough the next day' is actually not 'all that happens', it's all you notice.

As I mentioned above, if you don't drink often then not much damage is caused. You'd have to seriously overdo it to cause lasting damage in just one night. And I've never got remotely close to that. I've never even been drunk enough to lose the power to walk/speak or start seeing double - but that doesn't mean I haven't been very drunk before!

 

[Duke]

If you do not think that alcohol is a drug, you are fooling yourself very very badly.

 

[mindwise]

Of course

Thanks for showing that by your words too

Well probably, but even bad books can help reduce illiteracy. If fewer people were smoking weed and more were reading books the internet would certainly be a less infuriating place!

Surely you don't mean that the internet is a more infuriating place because of the comments of some pott-heads that don't read enough.

That said, getting infuriated is a personal thing, so i would not hold it against you (certainly not in the light that getting infuriated not actually a choice, lol.

In my case, i often get slightly infuriated by people that read too much from a single book

Are you referring to weed here? I've played games drunk before and it doesn't seem to have much effect, to be honest, but I've never played games absolutely wasted. I came in from an average night out once and went on GT4, and set a lap time around the 'Ring in a BMW 330i only a second slower than my sober attempt I wouldn't attempt the same thing in real life though...

well, i think it's safe to say that in video games, smoking a spliff will yield much better results then drinking. (at least in my experience, i add with haste).

As for "good natured", it doesn't relate to the "expand your mind" comment that I criticised, unless I'm missing your implication.

I think it does since the other guy claimed smoking weed expanded his mind, i can accept his claim as his perception while under influence, not the reality of things.
I think the same applies to your claim of 'probalby being more good natured under influence of alcohol', i accept that is how you perceive it while tipsy, but i doubt it is the reality of things

As I mentioned above, if you don't drink often then not much damage is caused. You'd have to seriously overdo it to cause lasting damage in just one night. And I've never got remotely close to that. I've never even been drunk enough to lose the power to walk/speak or start seeing double - but that doesn't mean I haven't been very drunk before!

I fully agree with your point everything should be used in moderation

Okay, now it's time for a beer, i'll open a Leffe tripple to celebrate the existence of Leffe tripple

 

[buickgnx88]

I don't care for drugs and or the use of drugs,unless for medicinal purposes only.

Now I have a question about alcohol :

Why is is that our government can take an 18 year old " kid ",put him in uniform,send his ass across the pond to fight for our country,get shot,killed,but he cannot "legally" have a beer / drink until he's 21 ? Whats more dangerous,being shot at,or having a beer ?

I'd say join the Army, go across the pond, and then get a beer! In all seriousness though, it may have something to do with if they go over and fight, they'll only harm themselves and people from another country whereas drinking here, they'll harm themselves and other Americans!...or some other back-asswards logic.

 

[homeforsummer]

If you do not think that alcohol is a drug, you are fooling yourself very very badly.

If you read that statement anywhere in my post, then I guess yes, I must be fooling myself pretty badly...

Surely you don't mean that the internet is a more infuriating place because of the comments of some pott-heads that don't read enough.

Nope, not really, it was more a throwaway quip based on the sheer numbers of illiterate morons who populate much of the internet.

That said, getting infuriated is a personal thing, so i would not hold it against you (certainly not in the light that getting infuriated not actually a choice, lol.

The term infuriated was perhaps a bit strong too, net-based idiots don't particularly bother me as long as they don't have any significant impact on my life, but they are frustrating.

I think it does since the other guy claimed smoking weed expanded his mind, i can accept his claim as his perception while under influence, not the reality of things.
I think the same applies to your claim of 'probalby being more good natured under influence of alcohol', i accept that is how you perceive it while tipsy, but i doubt it is the reality of things

I read more into his comment that it was the typical response of someone trying to justify using drugs (weed in particular), that it somehow increases creativity, or something. When really, like any drug, be it coffee, chocolate, dope, alcohol or whatever, people just do it for a hit. No point trying to cover it in a veil of usefulness.

Okay, now it's time for a beer, i'll open a Leffe tripple to celebrate the existence of Leffe tripple

I'd take you up on the offer but my house is bone dry at the moment!