Drugs

[Omnis]

Look what I found on the lew rockwell blog:

 

[Joey D]

Well ya, if you make something legal that's been illegal it takes the "fun" out of doing it.

The crime thing is a bit of a misleading though, yes crime falls, but that's because an illegal activity was made legal. That takes the total number of crimes and automatically reduced it. More data will need to be acquired to see if crime percentages rise or fall depending on the committed crimes per capita.

 

[Joel]

On the topic of marijuana, it should absolutely, 100% be legal. I never have, and never will smoke in my life (tobacco, marijuana, etc.), but why shouldn't someone else be able to?

I don't see why tobacco and alcohol are OK, but marijuana isn't. And I don't even want to stop at pot. Crack, meth, LSD, heroin, whatever floats your boat, it should all be legal. What somebody does on their own private property is none of my business.

When you take it on to public land, I have no problem with it being illegal there, but why should it be illegal on private property?

 

[hambone8611]

Agreed

 

[Northstar]

On the topic of marijuana, it should absolutely, 100% be legal. I never have, and never will smoke in my life (tobacco, marijuana, etc.), but why shouldn't someone else be able to?

I don't see why tobacco and alcohol are OK, but marijuana isn't. And I don't even want to stop at pot. Crack, meth, LSD, heroin, whatever floats your boat, it should all be legal. What somebody does on their own private property is none of my business.

When you take it on to public land, I have no problem with it being illegal there, but why should it be illegal on private property?

I'm fine with Marijuana being legal, however the rest should remain illegal as they mess people up big time and ruin lives in more severe ways. I'm not sure if you have any experience withed drugged up people but they are not fun to be around. I can only speak for meth as my cousin does it and she is basically a zombie, she doesn't care that she lost her husband, her kid, basically her whole family, or that she is in the process of losing her house(actually has already technically lost it). There is also the fact that the production of it is extremely volatile and can result in an explosion.

I'm not sure on this, but I believe with the exception of marijuana all the drugs you listed can cause a person to become extremely unstable.

 

[Joel]

I'm fine with Marijuana being legal, however the rest should remain illegal as they mess people up big time and ruin lives in more severe ways. I'm not sure if you have any experience withed drugged up people but they are not fun to be around. I can only speak for meth as my cousin does it and she is basically a zombie, she doesn't care that she lost her husband, her kid, basically her whole family, or that she is in the process of losing her house(actually has already technically lost it). There is also the fact that the production of it is extremely volatile and can result in an explosion.

I'm not sure on this, but I believe with the exception of marijuana they can cause a person to become extremely unstable.

It's very tough to draw the line between what's OK and what isn't. For example, the fact that weed is illegal now, but is it really that much (or at all) worse than tobacco/ booze?


Alcohol causes people to be very unstable as well. People have lost their cars, houses, families, etc etc. to Alcohol just as many, (and I would bet that it's more times) times as someone to another drug. I can't with any sort of validity say that Marijuana is ok, but this drug isn't, and that drug isn't.

I just can't say with any validity that Alcohol and tobacco are OK, and marijuana is, but not ecstasy.

 

[Northstar]

It's very tough to draw the line between what's OK and what isn't. For example, the fact that weed is illegal now, but is it really that much (or at all) worse than tobacco/ booze?


Alcohol causes people to be very unstable as well. People have lost their cars, houses, families, etc etc. to Alcohol just as many, (and I would bet that it's more times) times as someone to another drug. I can't with any sort of validity say that Marijuana is ok, but this drug isn't, and that drug isn't.

I get what you are saying, it's just that the number of people that become addicted and lose everything is much higher for hard drugs(meth, cocaine, heroin, etc...).

Alcohol also doesn't have anywhere near the withdrawal that the hard drugs do, there are people that have seizures if they don't have whatever hard drug they were addicted to. It's also extremely hard for them to go back to their normal life they had before as everything reminds them of the drug so they feel the urge to go back to the drug, it's not just a small "craving" either.

 

[Joel]

I get what you are saying, it's just that the number of people that become addicted and lose everything is much higher for hard drugs(meth, cocaine, heroin, etc...).

Alcohol also doesn't have anywhere near the withdrawal that the hard drugs do, there are people that have seizures if they don't have whatever hard drug they were addicted to. It's also extremely hard for them to go back to their normal life they had before as everything reminds them of the drug so they feel the urge to go back to the drug, it's not just a small "craving" either.

I'm not going to argue against cocaine having a worse withdrawal than alcohol, of course it does. What I will argue against, is the worse withdrawal/ symptoms being reason to keep it banned.


I know the consequences of getting hooked on cocaine, and I don't think it's worth it, so I don't do it. Somebody else who knows the consequences may think it is worth it, so they would want to. Neither one of these decisions is inherently better than the other.


I have a big problem with telling people what they can and can't do on their own property. I don't think drugs should be legal in public (Read: publicly owned) places, such as roads, parks, etc. But if someone wants to open a privately owned weed bar, etc. I don't care. What people do on private property is of no concern to me.

On the topic which will come next, about people who don't know the consequences, I don't think minors should be able to take drugs, just like the laws are now with alcohol and tobacco. I also don't have a problem with legislating warning labels similar to those found on cigarette packs.


It just comes down to freedom of choice in my opinion. If somebody wants to take cocaine and they know the consequences, why shouldn't they be allowed? I don't want to be protecting people from themselves.

 

[Omnis]

Well ya, if you make something legal that's been illegal it takes the "fun" out of doing it.

The crime thing is a bit of a misleading though, yes crime falls, but that's because an illegal activity was made legal. That takes the total number of crimes and automatically reduced it. More data will need to be acquired to see if crime percentages rise or fall depending on the committed crimes per capita.

That's the point though. They're treating sick people like sick people and not like criminals. More people are able to get help now without the threat of being locked up.

 

[DK]

There's already such things as a cocaine bar...that being the restrooms of a nightclub full of celebrities.

EDIT: Had to give my opinion on the matter. I have friends who take drugs, usually just weed. If drugs are to be legalised, use the same restrictions for tobacco. No sale to under-18s and all that stuff. If weed was legalised, then the government could make a few bucks taxing it. Plus, weed sellers will have to pay income tax. However, this may lead to legal troubles. Weed dealers that were locked up when weed was illegal will probably ask, "Why am I still in prison?" and will probably take the government to court (please correct me if I'm wrong).

 

[mafia_boy]

Bit of a novel here so bear with me.

I get what you are saying, it's just that the number of people that become addicted and lose everything is much higher for hard drugs(meth, cocaine, heroin, etc...).

Alcohol also doesn't have anywhere near the withdrawal that the hard drugs do, there are people that have seizures if they don't have whatever hard drug they were addicted to. It's also extremely hard for them to go back to their normal life they had before as everything reminds them of the drug so they feel the urge to go back to the drug, it's not just a small "craving" either.

I can tell you right now that it's 10 times harder to kick an alcohol habit than it is for a person who is on a heroin or meth habit.

With heroin, you get withdrawl symptoms simply from the fact that the junk is being drawn out of your system (usually through the sweat pores) and you have nothing to help you get over the stuff that's going out of your system. People on needles have it 10 times worse than the people who smoke it however, as their addiction comes from the needle itself more than anything and that needle becomes the thing to break free of, not the drug.

These people will then shoot up any drug (be it cocaine, heroin, speed, etc.) and will do more and more reckless things to get that feeling from that needle again, such as sharing needles with other users. The thing with these drugs is that they are relatively easy to kick the habit when you choose to do so. Most of these drugs can be kicked in a matter of weeks if those users exercise whatever scrap of self-control that they have left.

Meth is a similar thing, where you have more because you want to get "back up there" to where you were when you had that first toke. It doesn't happen, and the amount of thoughts that run through your mind of wanting to have more but can't get the Earth's supply for your next smoke to get back up there, plus the fact that you don't get any sleep during these meth binges is part of the reason that you start seeing meth users have psychotic episodes.

With alcohol, you have a similar withdrawl symptom when you have large amounts of alcohol on a constant basis but the effects are much more long term. I've seen 40-50yr old people have the shakes because they are withdrawing from the alcohol and cannot function normally until they have a drink, whether it's beer or spirits. For them to kick that habit, it's longer, harder, and has more cases of relapse than the other drugs combined (apart from nicotine because that stands out on it's own) and claims more lives overall.

Don't believe me? First, check your celebrities. More are admitted for alcohol abuse than any other drug. Then check your local rehab's and AA meetings and see the amount of people that are enrolled in those programs, the numbers of those sufferers far outweigh the hard drug rehab patients. Then talk to a recovering alcoholic, who counts each single day as a success for being off it. For me personally, I've been away from that hard stuff for 10yrs now and I don't say "oh it's been my 3724th day sober" because it's a cop out, and allows avenues for relapse to occur, and that's not even taking into account the outside influences that can sway your decisions.

I'm not going to argue against cocaine having a worse withdrawal than alcohol, of course it does. What I will argue against, is the worse withdrawal/ symptoms being reason to keep it banned.

Once again, if you've done cocaine, you will know that it's a very very easy drug to get off of. The problem with cocaine is it's price in some countries is exorbitant compared to alcohol. But as a drug, a lot of professionals take it because it is very easy to mask, and doesn't have the usual visual side effects (you have to look that bit harder into their eyes) that some others do such as having bloodshot eyes when you're smoking marijuana.

I know the consequences of getting hooked on cocaine, and I don't think it's worth it, so I don't do it. Somebody else who knows the consequences may think it is worth it, so they would want to. Neither one of these decisions is inherently better than the other.

Just the consequences of getting hooked on anything from drugs to gambling can lead down the same road, from thieving off friends, family members or any business where the items aren't bolted down, to abusive situations, to meeting the wrong types of people, all of it plus more.

I have a big problem with telling people what they can and can't do on their own property. I don't think drugs should be legal in public (Read: publicly owned) places, such as roads, parks, etc. But if someone wants to open a privately owned weed bar, etc. I don't care. What people do on private property is of no concern to me.

But what if those people overdose and die in their "private" property?? Nearly all of those drug users aren't property moguls, they're usually renting, so usually there's consequences for the homeowners by having their house values drop, aswell as having the stigma of owning the house that someone OD'ed in.

On the topic which will come next, about people who don't know the consequences, I don't think minors should be able to take drugs, just like the laws are now with alcohol and tobacco. I also don't have a problem with legislating warning labels similar to those found on cigarette packs.

Kids will always find a way to access these things, be it through peers, siblings, parents or random strangers. It's not like there are absolutely no kids under the smoking age smoking, it's very common among teens.

It just comes down to freedom of choice in my opinion. If somebody wants to take cocaine and they know the consequences, why shouldn't they be allowed? I don't want to be protecting people from themselves.

There's freedom of choice, and there's also protecting the dumbest of people from killing themselves.

 

[Omnis]

There's already such things as a cocaine bar...that being the restrooms of a nightclub full of celebrities.

EDIT: Had to give my opinion on the matter. I have friends who take drugs, usually just weed. If drugs are to be legalised, use the same restrictions for tobacco. No sale to under-18s and all that stuff. If weed was legalised, then the government could make a few bucks taxing it. Plus, weed sellers will have to pay income tax. However, this may lead to legal troubles. Weed dealers that were locked up when weed was illegal will probably ask, "Why am I still in prison?" and will probably take the government to court (please correct me if I'm wrong).

The President will have to pardon all prisoners locked up for non-violent drug crimes.

 

[FoolKiller]

The crime thing is a bit of a misleading though, yes crime falls, but that's because an illegal activity was made legal. That takes the total number of crimes and automatically reduced it. More data will need to be acquired to see if crime percentages rise or fall depending on the committed crimes per capita.

Making something like drugs legal also removes the necessity of those who deal with the production, transportation, and selling of it no longer need to carry guns and literally fight off the competition and the law.

As with many prohibited things, the crime surrounding it (not counting the product itself being illegal here) is created by the illegality of the product. The best example of this is alcohol prohibition. The alcohol didn't create the organized crime and speakeasy that surrounded it, the prohibition of alcohol did.

Now, it is true that legalizing all prohibited products like drugs won't eliminate all crimes. Typically, those involved in the manufacture, transportation, and/or selling of a prohibited product involve themselves in other illegal activities too. When a prohibited product becomes legal then those dealing with the product often need to chose between dealing with the product legally or their other illegal activities. Not every club owner could successfully run prostitutes from his now legal club. Some can pull off the balance. Mafia involvement in Las Vegas casinos years ago is one example.

But just by the nature of repealing a prohibition you should see a net decrease in crime statistics that aren't directly related to use of the product.

 

[Ibonibo]

As said above....

Look at the neederlands, where light drugs are legal, they don't had and have a boom in criminality.

Hard drugs should never be allowed for several reasons.

i did light drugs when younger (lived in belgium for several years, & 2 years @ alba's town), and as pleasing it was for me it would be very hard to allow this to my kids even if they were in the adulthood.

But the hypocryisis the society has on that subject is shocking:

drive drunk, and you got warned maybe the lisence suspended. But you are not criminalized.
Smoke a spliff and get cought () / caught and you are a bad person, getting criminalized.
(Mr Apaio (?? the guy in the us with the inmates in pink??) would probably like to shoot these people (This guy a ****ing Nazi, isn't he?))

I never saw a guy become agressive on weed,
i never saw a guy beat someone to death because of weed
i never saw someone dying of weed,.... (the list could go on but i suspect you get the point)

but with alcohol i saw all that and a lot more (and there are people who saw a lot more than me)

For me alcohol should be the drug that should be forbidden. It did more harm in 5 years than weed in 50 years.

either legalize weed or prohibit alcohol (never the hard stuff, morphins should only be used for medical use)

That would be a non bs statement from a gouverment

 

[Northstar]

I'm not going to argue against cocaine having a worse withdrawal than alcohol, of course it does. What I will argue against, is the worse withdrawal/ symptoms being reason to keep it banned.

the adictiveness is only a partial reason why hard drugs are illegal. Drugs like Meth are so addictive that people on it will stop at nothing to get more, whether it's stealing from family members, robbing stores, prostitution or even pimping out their own children. None of these things will stop if they become legalized as people would still run out of money and need to get their fix.

I have a big problem with telling people what they can and can't do on their own property. I don't think drugs should be legal in public (Read: publicly owned) places, such as roads, parks, etc. But if someone wants to open a privately owned weed bar, etc. I don't care. What people do on private property is of no concern to me.

Private property really isn't all that private, it's pretty much just a fancy title and more crap to take care of.

Bit of a novel here so bear with me.



I can tell you right now that it's 10 times harder to kick an alcohol habit than it is for a person who is on a heroin or meth habit.

With heroin, you get withdrawl symptoms simply from the fact that the junk is being drawn out of your system (usually through the sweat pores) and you have nothing to help you get over the stuff that's going out of your system. People on needles have it 10 times worse than the people who smoke it however, as their addiction comes from the needle itself more than anything and that needle becomes the thing to break free of, not the drug.

These people will then shoot up any drug (be it cocaine, heroin, speed, etc.) and will do more and more reckless things to get that feeling from that needle again, such as sharing needles with other users. The thing with these drugs is that they are relatively easy to kick the habit when you choose to do so. Most of these drugs can be kicked in a matter of weeks if those users exercise whatever scrap of self-control that they have left.

Meth is a similar thing, where you have more because you want to get "back up there" to where you were when you had that first toke. It doesn't happen, and the amount of thoughts that run through your mind of wanting to have more but can't get the Earth's supply for your next smoke to get back up there, plus the fact that you don't get any sleep during these meth binges is part of the reason that you start seeing meth users have psychotic episodes.

With alcohol, you have a similar withdrawl symptom when you have large amounts of alcohol on a constant basis but the effects are much more long term. I've seen 40-50yr old people have the shakes because they are withdrawing from the alcohol and cannot function normally until they have a drink, whether it's beer or spirits. For them to kick that habit, it's longer, harder, and has more cases of relapse than the other drugs combined (apart from nicotine because that stands out on it's own) and claims more lives overall.

Thing is that a larger percentage of users become extremely addicted to hard drugs than alcohol. For alcohol maybe 1/50 users become extremely addicted, for meth it's more like 45/50.

Don't believe me? First, check your celebrities. More are admitted for alcohol abuse than any other drug. Then check your local rehab's and AA meetings and see the amount of people that are enrolled in those programs, the numbers of those sufferers far outweigh the hard drug rehab patients. Then talk to a recovering alcoholic, who counts each single day as a success for being off it. For me personally, I've been away from that hard stuff for 10yrs now and I don't say "oh it's been my 3724th day sober" because it's a cop out, and allows avenues for relapse to occur, and that's not even taking into account the outside influences that can sway your decisions.

Alcohol is just the most innocent drug they can admit to, who knows what else they take.

 

[Joel]

Kids will always find a way to access these things, be it through peers, siblings, parents or random strangers. It's not like there are absolutely no kids under the smoking age smoking, it's very common among teens.


There's freedom of choice, and there's also protecting the dumbest of people from killing themselves.

I agree with the thing about kids accessing drugs, I am a teen, and I see it every day. But part of the draw to them is the illegality.


With what you said regarding alcoholism vs. Cocaine/ meth addictions, etc., I think it only backs up my point even further. Why is alcohol legal, while marijuana isn't?

I just don't think it's my, or the government's responsibility to protect people from themselves. I like what Omnis said, "they're treating sick people like sick people and not like criminals".



@ Justin


So you think the entire notion of private property is invalid?

 

[Northstar]

I agree with the thing about kids accessing drugs, I am a teen, and I see it every day. But part of the draw to them is the illegality.

It's not really the illegality of it, these days huffing(which can be anything aerosol) is one of the biggest drugs among children. They can easily obtain aerosols at really any store. They look for a quick and easy high, they don't care if it's legal or not.

With what you said regarding alcoholism vs. Cocaine/ meth addictions, etc., I think it only backs up my point even further. Why is alcohol legal, while marijuana isn't?

I would guess within the next 10 years marijuana will be legal, probably with a similar age limit to alcohol.

@ Justin


So you think the entire notion of private property is invalid?

Mostly yes, private property pretty much means you can sell the property and you also have more crap to take care of. It doesn't mean that the laws all of a sudden don't apply.

 

[Public'sTwin]

I see people lighting up every day.

Marijuana is already de-facto legal in Canada. It's roughly as enforced as jay-walking; however, should evil gun-toting-jay-walking syndicates start popping up, I'm sure they'd crack down on the more unsavory partakers of that, as well.

As noted earlier, and practised in this country, law enforcement tends to focus on the negativity around the illegal act - mass purchases from internationally-wanted drug lords, smuggling (oft more than just marijuana), executions etc - are what really catch their attention.

Nothing happens when thousands assemble en masse to partake in 4/20, or at pro-pot rallies and protest — the type of situations where violence is most likely to occur.

Edit:

Mostly yes, private property pretty much means you can sell the property and you also have more crap to take care of. It doesn't mean that the laws all of a sudden don't apply.

To expand upon this,

You don't live on your land, you live on American or Canadian or Nigerian land where you are subject to the laws of those countries.

 

[Joel]

Mostly yes, private property pretty much means you can sell the property and you also have more crap to take care of. It doesn't mean that the laws all of a sudden don't apply.

No, I don't think it should make laws not apply, but there shouldn't be laws against it on your own property. I have no problem with regulating the hell out of public property.

 

[Keef]

I'm currently watching on the Travel Channel a show called "New Zealand Border Patrol" (yes, really).

They've been harassing a Spanish 18 year old about drugs. Apparently he'd been a regular user of marijuana since 13. When searching his clothes and bags they found a negligible amount of residue, in the corners of his pockets and CD case, two examples they showed. Apparently they don't stock Spanish translators in New Zealand, which led to the man getting extremely frustrated because of his poor English skills (he's from Spain, why should he need to speak English?). He got so frustrated when he found out they needed to search his body for drugs that he stripped naked to show he had nothing. He had no organized amount of pot on his body or anywhere in his luggage, and yet they would not let him enter the country. What's worse is that a citizen of New Zealand wouldn't simply be sent back home, they would be arrested and put in jail.

Now that's what I call a first degree offense right there, having some weed crumbs in your pockets. He is a menace to society. He could kill anybody at a moment's notice. What a dirty, despicable criminal. I spit on him. He should be kicked out of his own country for hurting society so terribly. I hope he burns in hell for his sins.

The people who support such a twisted sense of morality as the New Zealand government (and those who work for it, apparently) disgust me.

 

[Tesla]

^Those types of shows could be influenced by the fact that the officials are on camera. Do you think that half of these guys would actually care that much if the guy had some weed crumbs in his pockets if they weren't being filmed and then shown to the rest of the world how New Zealand treats people with drugs on them?

 

[TT3AZ]

Problems is that many people dont have enough controll to "smoke" proporly. They spend to much money on drugs, ending up ripping people of etc. Thats the problem. The greater feeling, the more people want it, thats it. Im against drugs, but on the other hand im against poork meat and alcohol as well, so maybe im not the right person to talk about this stuff

You underestimate how even marijuana can mess people up, not because its dangerous, but the mentality changes of many people using it. If they want it so bad, and dont have money they will ripp their friends of etc, i have all seen it.

People that wants to legalise drugs are probably druggies them selves. Dont you think people will do shady business and rip eachother of, even if marijuana is legalized? Well think again baby. Also think why youths in western countries are so messed up

If you must use drugs to live your life, then something is wrong according to me. Just live as it is, like me. You are supposed to live with out these additional substances. Then we should feel sorry for junkies and tread them woth government money, huh f-off man, you dont get any quarter from me so you can buy a "cherry".

 

[Tesla]

People that wants to legalise drugs are probably druggies them selves.

Of course they would be. Lets say that you are heavily invested in posing nude while people paint you (hypothetical here). How would you feel if they made it illegal? It's perfectly harmless to the people who aren't involved. Same applies to drugs. Of course, you would have to have regulations on how much you would be able to purchase per day/week, so that you can't get parents of children abusing them, or allowing them to have it.

Don't you think people will do shady business and rip each other off, even if marijuana is legalized?

If marijuana was legalised, there would probably be much less drug related crime, and the prices would come down, because it isn't as expensive to produce/keep undercover.

Within any business, you get people ripping people off. But, it would be much less than it would be now it its' illegal state.

If you must use drugs to live your life, then something is wrong according to me. Just live as it is, like me. You are supposed to live with out these additional substances.

You only have 70 something years on this planet, and then that's it (if you're an atheist like me). Why not allow these people to live in an enlightened state, where they can escape from the worries of real life without killing themselves? If you don't want to spend as much time as possible feeling awesome, then that's fine for you, and you are entitled to do that. But why deny other people that right?

 

[Joel]

I'm not a druggie, the smell of marijuana drives me insane. I think it should be legal, because I don't give a damn what other people are doing with their lives.

 

[Dennisch]

*Lights one up.

Because it's legal in my country, well not legal exactly, but it's tolerated. 👍

 

[FoolKiller]

Problems is that many people dont have enough controll to "smoke" proporly. They spend to much money on drugs, ending up ripping people of etc. Thats the problem. The greater feeling, the more people want it, thats it. Im against drugs, but on the other hand im against poork meat and alcohol as well, so maybe im not the right person to talk about this stuff

You underestimate how even marijuana can mess people up, not because its dangerous, but the mentality changes of many people using it. If they want it so bad, and dont have money they will ripp their friends of etc, i have all seen it.

People that wants to legalise drugs are probably druggies them selves. Dont you think people will do shady business and rip eachother of, even if marijuana is legalized? Well think again baby. Also think why youths in western countries are so messed up

If you must use drugs to live your life, then something is wrong according to me. Just live as it is, like me. You are supposed to live with out these additional substances. Then we should feel sorry for junkies and tread them woth government money, huh f-off man, you dont get any quarter from me so you can buy a "cherry".

Should be legalized. I have one response to legislating any product of any kind: Just leave people alone.

Now, do you think I am a user for saying that? Do you really believe that people can't have thoughts of freedom without being a user? My medical situation is one in which if I used I would be screwed. I can't drink, can't smoke, and stronger substances are definitely out. I also think abusing mind altering drugs is a stupid thing to do. But I am not ever going to force my morality on others. Let people live their lives and face the consequences of their own actions, which means I would take away their handouts too.

I'm not a druggie, the smell of marijuana drives me insane. I think it should be legal, because I don't give a damn what other people are doing with their lives.

This, 100%.

👍

 

[TT3AZ]

Of course they would be. Lets say that you are heavily invested in posing nude while people paint you (hypothetical here). How would you feel if they made it illegal? It's perfectly harmless to the people who aren't involved. Same applies to drugs. Of course, you would have to have regulations on how much you would be able to purchase per day/week, so that you can't get parents of children abusing them, or allowing them to have it.


If marijuana was legalised, there would probably be much less drug related crime, and the prices would come down, because it isn't as expensive to produce/keep undercover.

Within any business, you get people ripping people off. But, it would be much less than it would be now it its' illegal state.


You only have 70 something years on this planet, and then that's it (if you're an atheist like me). Why not allow these people to live in an enlightened state, where they can escape from the worries of real life without killing themselves? If you don't want to spend as much time as possible feeling awesome, then that's fine for you, and you are entitled to do that. But why deny other people that right?

This is rich peoples problem in the west, spend some time in third world countries, and say that we have problem in western world. I understand people smoking opium in afghanistan because the situation is rough, they have to. But in western world, thats BS, if you have problems fix them, they arent going to get away. Second, using drugs because you dont like your life of having problem is a bad excuse, you should use drugs and stuff when you are happy according to me, if you want to use drugs.

But hey ,here you go, drink and smoke till you die, so it will get enough room for civilized persons. Natural selection at it best. If marijuana will be legalized, then drug cartels only going to open semi legal shops and distribution etc, with much lower prices. Alcohol is legal to sell in some countries, but only by the government. Guess what, many people sell imported alcohol illegally, hence much lower prices.

Now im going to get some green stuff...

 

[Pupik]

As a former user of many of the drugs spoken of in this thread (no needle-delivered drugs, however), I personally say the toughest part of quitting is ridding yourself of the lifestyle and the friends/companions that (typically) also do the same drugs. That they live lives seemingly undercover, rather delusional, and distrusting of "the-undrugged-society" makes it tricky; it comes across as a rebellion against authority after a while, than just an occasional foray and escape, to enjoy things recreationally. I'm not saying it's impossible to teetotal while others imbibe, but it is difficult to rid yourself of the negative influences of others if that's their entire lives; especially that of illegal activity.

With alcohol, it's even more difficult to kick the habit, as many societies freely talk about "adult beverages" and there are few places where they aren't sold alongside food. It's part of our vernacular, music, even religious ceremonies; many people enjoy a social drink (although this ranges from rarely to daily for all walks of life). All of this is permitted by law, and unless you're under 21 (in America), there's little to stop people, and with the exception of "while driving" or "while pregnant", society generally looks the other way to drinking.

Just my 2 cents on the matter, I've discussed this in more detail across these boards over the years.

 

[Dapper]

Meth should be illegal. The cost to take care of a person with severe burns caused by cooking meth is astronomical (over a $1,000,000 in many cases).

 

[FoolKiller]

Meth should be illegal. The cost to take care of a person with severe burns caused by cooking meth is astronomical (over a $1,000,000 in many cases).

I bet if it were legal and cooked in a lab environment, not in a personal kitchen using makeshift lab equipment there would be a lot less burns.