Drugs

[TT3AZ]

for the record I,m clean and sober nearly five years, just felt that needed to be said

Okay good for you, you want a birthday cake?

 

[hambone8611]

Of course I do, cake is delicious, but it would just spoil in transport, anyway my point is that weather weed is legal or not would have little effect on price as for the other drugs I have no real take on that but I do believe that they should be legal, what other people do in the privacy of their own home is of no concern of mine

 

[TT3AZ]

Of course I do, cake is delicious, but it would just spoil in transport, anyway my point is that weather weed is legal or not would have little effect on price as for the other drugs I have no real take on that but I do believe that they should be legal, what other people do in the privacy of their own home is of no concern of mine

That is true, but more people abusing drugs will lead to more social problems of course. There is hardly a thing that is "personal" in this society, and many actions have impact on the society as well. But then again the government doesnt care about the people, they just want to sell drúga legally because they want extra taxes and stuff.

 

[hambone8611]

That is true, but more people abusing drugs will lead to more social problems of course. There is hardly a thing that is "personal" in this society, and many actions have impact on the society as well. But then again the government doesnt care about the people, they just want to sell drúga legally because they want extra taxes and stuff.

My first thought is that the people that are going to do drugs will do so regardless of legal status so I would not expect much change in the amount of people doing them. I would agree that we are all connected as a society and some impact is made as such, I just think that impact is already present. I also find it very hypocritical of our local government that they put people in jail for selling weed because they need the money, but soon as the state is in need of big bucks they want to start talking about selling weed and taxing the hell out of it. So at the end of the day my opinion is if you don’t like drugs don’t do them.

 

[Dapper]

Are you a complete idiot, or do you just enjoy looking like one?

I guess you being proved wrong is grounds for name calling? I understand bro.

Smoked marijuana is not synthetic.

Who would argue that?

So you're saying this is the only drug that users can turn to and still pass drug tests?

Why do you just make things up? Fake pot is the only alternative to real pot, obviously, but not exclusively the only drug test safe, but there is more than one brand of fake pot, way more than one actually(just ask google).

 

[Tesla]

Who would argue that?

Err...you.

Weed bought for smokin is man made, essentially synthetic.

 

[Dapper]

Err...you.

Well I didn't say it was synthetic. I was just saying that pot isn't like wild blackberries you can pick in the woods, it is a genetically altered plant grown using not so natural techniques, that's all.

 

[GT5Pro]

I think a lot of drugs have bad reputations. I personally feel that alcohol is far more dangerous than marijuana. I've never seen a high man beat a woman, but have seen (and stopped) a drunk man beating a woman. However, I feel the worst off are the mushrooms. To me, there is nothing better than an 8 hour trip with some friends, and has many benifits for me. Some are, if you are interested, the ability to think quicker and more clearly for about a month after, extremely acute sense of sight. That lasts for about two months. And of course the trip itself is fantastic.

 

[Highlandor]

The marijuana typically smoked by everyone and their mother is 100% unprocessed. It is the flowers of the cannabis plant, dried and crushed.

Not in Europe - we get all sorts of 'weed', the skunk and normal weed (which is now very rare - skunk dominates) is, as you say - clean.

But, the 'solids' (as we call them - but others would refer to as 'hash') - different story. The amount of types of this is huge, many times, there'll be 'bits' in the hash, especially little bits of plastic (very annoying), taste like puke too.

Other times, there's a type of hash which is basically oil you drip on the rizla, then roll up a tobacco 'cigarrette' and get munted.

Oil and plastic don't grow on trees - there has to be some kind of process involved.

That is true, but more people abusing drugs will lead to more social problems of course.

Complete rubbish.

The key word here is 'abuse' - whatever you abuse - money, freedom, opposite sex, yourself (health etc), family, friends, social power, partners - everything, it's all the same, if you abuse something it's going to cause problems, labelling drugs as being a problem because of abuse is just a myth.

I've known so many people who smoke weed, do pills, 'shrooms, Colombian marching poweder - you name it. Most of them have all got jobs, mortgages, houses, kids etc etc and no criminal record.

Come to England and see the problem we have with Alcohol on weekends in Town / City Centres - then tell me drugs are going to make matters worse, no way.

The police statiions are full with DRUNKS on the weekend. The stoners are too busy at home munching 153,000 chocolate biscuits and watching crap TV or playing on their Xbox or PS3's.

Crack and Herion etc - agreed, the sooner we get rid of this evil the better for everyone, this stuff is just awful, it totally **** people up.

Acid and LSD, not too far behind. My friend Paul works in a Psychiatrict hospital, the worst cases are too much Acid and LSD, once your brain has been turned into a mushroom from these, there's no turning back.

Cocaine, you can get away from (maybe), but you'll probably need some new cartilidge in your nose though, exctasy - chances are you won't even make it too the hospital. R.I.P - I nearly did. It was simply one of the worst experiences of my life - you're fully awake and conscious and can do nothing to stop it, truely horrendous, it lasts for hours too.

Weed and mild mushrooms, why not legalise it, everything else, no, it's just too strong.

 

[Joel]

But are the laws stopping people from using hard drugs? Judging by your post, not really. I don't do cocaine and ecstasy because it's bad for you, not because it's illegal. If it were legal tomorrow, I'm not gonna run down to the nearest rave and take some E.

 

[Keef]

Well I didn't say it was synthetic. I was just saying that pot isn't like wild blackberries you can pick in the woods, it is a genetically altered plant grown using not so natural techniques, that's all.

The plant is not "genetically altered". It grows in nature, completely unattended. Does this by itself. If you happen to stumble upon it in the wild - you'll know it when you do because of its pungent odor - you can pick the flowers, lay them in the sun for a day, crush them up, and smoke it. As I said before.

Natural. Mushrooms is another example of a naturally occurring substance being outlawed for no good reason.

But, the 'solids' (as we call them - but others would refer to as 'hash') - different story. The amount of types of this is huge, many times, there'll be 'bits' in the hash, especially little bits of plastic (very annoying), taste like puke too.

Other times, there's a type of hash which is basically oil you drip on the rizla, then roll up a tobacco 'cigarrette' and get munted.

Oil and plastic don't grow on trees - there has to be some kind of process involved.

Hashish is synthetic.

 

[GT5Pro]

Pot isn't "synthetic" in the sense that it's man made, and man made alone. If you mean it's DNA is altrered, then yeah but nothing more than people weeded out the less potent and bred the more potent. It's then "natural selection" for which strain will be harvested and have the most beneficial effects. Now hash, that's a different story. I know of one person in the US that makes hash. This dude does not add anything other than the keif of his personal bud. He does however have horror stories of people indeed adding all kinds of stuff. Some people he mentioned: spit in the batch, added opiats, added cleaning chemicals like 409, and stupid disgusting things like that.

I've never personally been to Europe, however I've seen a man on Ebaum's and YouTube named MC Devvo that was SERIOUS! I was quite shocked and the ammounts taken of whatever was going down was pretty eye-opening. The main thing I though was, "damn, is it that easy over there?". Then the video shot to about I estimate 15 to 20 minutes later and it was ludicrous. I believe that MC Devvo is the SOLE reason I dislike any substance in pill form. When you regard different pills as just "uppers" and "downers" you don't know enough about wtf you are eating.

 

[Dapper]

...As I said before.

Ad nauseum!

 

[BrutherSuperior]

When you regard different pills as just "uppers" and "downers" you don't know enough about wtf you are eating.

Besides test results from an autopsy, does anyone really 'know' what they're ingesting? I'd wager no.

The people who cook up drugs are not smart enough to really know what's taking place. If they did, they'd do something else for a living and have a nice home & portfolio. While I'm not exactly 'hip' on buying & selling narcotics, I do not believe the ingredients, nutritional content, health risks, and all the other normal information you'd find on a candy-bar wrapper will be displayed on the bag/jar/suitcase/whatever the drugs are in.

Is this good or bad? I say it's 'buyer beware' and dealers with 'good stuff' will expand their business through customer service and word of mouth. Bad drugs, like bad Chinese take-out, would probably have lower repeat business and the dealer/producer would have to either adapt to meet market needs or go bankrupt.

Black market or not, this is how markets work. To me, this kinda stuff is more fascinating and addicting than any drug. Capitalism is my proverbial crack.

Now we've established how most drug markets work (discounting gang tribalism and ghetto areas), we've established that it is unreasonable and not expected for a drug supplier to label their product like a can of soda, and we've established that there are certain risks involved when taking drugs (health risks...not law).

Now, if any or all drugs were to be legalized...how would the above change? No one person, organization, or government can predict how the market will change with anywhere near 100% accuracy. There's always unintended consequences.

What are the benefits of legalizing drugs?

Saving money on drug law enforcement? They'll piss those dollars away on something else. History tells us this.

Ending gang violence & drug trafficking? Doubtful. If a container of pot is $25 at whatever vendor and the guy on the street-corner is selling a substitutable drug for $15...you're going to buy the cheaper drug if they do the same damn thing.

This is how markets work. People will always find the best goods for the lowest price, it's in our nature. Something will have to be "illegal" in order for the government to protect their new revenue stream. Either through licensing or needing a doctor's note; there is a 0% chance that pot or any drug will be completely unregulated. The unintended consequence from that? The Black Market & drug trade will still exist and after adjusting, may even become more powerful and dangerous.

Remember, Government screws up more than it gets things right. Given the choice, I'd rather have our lawmakers on vacation 365 days a year and miles away from a pen than have them in Washington DC, surrounded by cameras & reporters, and have a Mont Blac in a quick-draw holster. Legalizing drugs, as I am aware of anyway, is a utopian fiction. It'll never happen.

Besides, would you feel comfortable smoking a bag of whatever if it says "MADE IN CHINA" on it? I wouldn't...

 

[Dennisch]

Hashish is synthetic.

No it's not.

Its the juice of the plant dried and pressed together.

 

[hambone8611]

No it's not.

Its the juice of the plant dried and pressed together.

Yup they separate the THC from the plant matter with a solvent usually isopropyl alcohol and then press it together and yes it is a bit more complicated than that

 

[Dennisch]

Yup they separate the THC from the plant matter with a solvent usually isopropyl alcohol and then press it together and yes it is a bit more complicated than that

Well, that's new to me, we used a BA weight to squeeze the plants, and voila, hashies.

Much better.

 

[hambone8611]

Well, that's new to me, we used a BA weight to squeeze the plants, and voila, hashies.

Much better.

I have known of many different methods but I never cared for the stuff much anyway so I’m no expert on the matter. Leave the plant matter in was my motto.

 

[Dennisch]

I have known of many different methods but I never cared for the stuff much anyway so I’m no expert on the matter. Leave the plant matter in was my motto.

Well, I'm from the Netherlands, and as it's randomly available, up to 7 months ago I lived to 2 houses away from a coffeeshop, it's easy to start smoking.

And, as we can have 5 plants legally, growing your own supply is very easy..
And with the hot springs and summers we have these days, 5 plants gives a lot.

A LOT.

 

[hambone8611]

I fully understand

 

[pattycakes91]

I’m picking on what I think is your best point here. Legalizing drugs might lead to more traffic collisions which would kill more people than the years previous. It might. I probably wouldn’t reduce that number. But I have several responses to this, the first one might seem cold and heartless, but actually it is full of purpose, passion, and love of my fellow man. The rest of them are more PC.

1) If more people died in traffic collisions that is not caused by the legalization of drugs. That is caused by murders who decide to drive while intoxicated. You cannot claim that if someone shoots another person with a legal gun (or bow and arrow, or stabs them), that then lack of gun law killed that person. That justification just doesn’t work. Plus, isn’t it worth a few more accidental deaths over the whole country to maintain freedom??? If we’re willing to die overseas for freedom, why not take a few risks right here at home for it? (Told you you’d think it was cold…. But it’s not).

2) Freeing up the coast guard and police from monitoring drug smuggling and dealing would allow those very same people to help with more important matters like finding crackheads on the road.

3) Crackheads are already on the road. Whether or not it is legal.

4) Read what I said about finding a safe place

I honestly think legalization of drugs would result in fewer drug related deaths and a more useful law enforcement agency, not to mention more useful prisons and fewer paroles. I’m open to objections.

There is ALWAYS going to be crime and motor vehicle accidents. Whether they are drug related or not there is no possible way to stop it. I myself am for the legalization of one "so called drug" marijuana. For both medicinal and recreational uses. Nobody uses alcohol and tobacco for medicinal purposes so there is one point for cannabis. Also I would like to add that whether drugs are illegal or legal there will always be a way for people to get their hands on them, it is just whether you want your country and/or state to legalize and make large amounts of money by finding a way to distribute safely and efficiently or keep it illegal and keep wasting important tax dollars on the never-ending war on drugs. Which I'm almost certain is going to continue for generations to come.



P.s. Governments should read some American history about the prohibition era and see how well making alcohol illegal worked out us.

 

[FoolKiller]

Meth should be illegal, I never said anything about other drugs or markers or tylenol. Several people said everything should be legal, I simply said meth should be illegal. Concerting efforts on drugs that cause problems for not only the user, but the entire communtity seems like a good place to draw the line on what is legal and illegal. Granted I know the negative effects heroin and crack can have on an individual and on a community, but they are much less of a problem in my opinion.

So, basically, you are saying freedom for all, except for your one hang-up?

Sounds like the typical political reasoning to me that I hear on opinion shows all the time.

First, it isn't sold as an oral stimulant, that is why it is sold as bath salts. Second, it gets used the same way, including desired effect, as its natural counterpart.

EDIT: FK, the "bath salts" Dapper was talking about aren't bath salts. It's a nickname for mephedrone.

So we are not talking about "trucker speed?" Because whenever bath salts comes up here in Kentucky that is what they are discussing. Granted the stimulant effect isn't the intended purpose of the drug, but that is what it gets sold as in gas stations around here.

If I am incorrect then I guess I have been misled by the politicians trying to legislate it here in Kentucky and the media, including the trucker speed reference made on the Adam Carolla show from Thursday when discussing the pigmy goat rapist. I can't wait until they outlaw the wrong drug just because some woman snorted it last year and left her infant laying in the middle of the interstate.

Want to know what will probably happen first? Producers & dealers will probably start shooting each other. Next step, someone dies from this new 'legal' meth and the FDA steps in for 'safety' and starts regulating it.

Looking again at the one instance I can think of where a prohibited item was legalized: When exactly did the remnants of Al Capone's gangs start shooting up Jack Daniels distilleries?

Sure, moonshine exists, but last I checked the Duke boys weren't out shooting at the liquor store. In fact, I think they were meanin' no harm.

And honestly, looking at that I do not see where you think a proper legalization into a consumer product will be an issue. You are acting like people are talking about doing the same thing that happened with medical marijuana. What we are talking about is doing like they did with alcohol.

Here's an exercise I'd like you and everyone who thinks drugs should be legal;

Name one thing that is neither taxed nor regulated in some way shape or form.

So, if it is going to be taxed and regulated then you think an unconstitutional prohibition is the way to go?

Now what makes you think drugs will be any different? Ever have someone take a look at your car, your leaky toilet, fix your deck, or mow your lawn for cash? That's a black market if you think about it. Why did you do it? B/C it was less expensive. Why wouldn't drugs be any different?

Why was alcohol different?

Besides test results from an autopsy, does anyone really 'know' what they're ingesting? I'd wager no.

The people who cook up drugs are not smart enough to really know what's taking place. If they did, they'd do something else for a living and have a nice home & portfolio. While I'm not exactly 'hip' on buying & selling narcotics, I do not believe the ingredients, nutritional content, health risks, and all the other normal information you'd find on a candy-bar wrapper will be displayed on the bag/jar/suitcase/whatever the drugs are in.

Will it get regulated or not? Those lists are due to regulations. You can't argue that it is a bad idea because it will be regulated then further your argument by saying it won't have the one regulation that actually aids consumers.

Now we've established how most drug markets work (discounting gang tribalism and ghetto areas), we've established that it is unreasonable and not expected for a drug supplier to label their product like a can of soda, and we've established that there are certain risks involved when taking drugs (health risks...not law).

You've established it, but my drug bottles are covered in labels with warnings and side effects and when and where and how to take it. And then it comes with a two-page print out in the bag.

What are the benefits of legalizing drugs?

Further freedom? Reduced unconstitutional prohibition?

Saving money on drug law enforcement? They'll piss those dollars away on something else. History tells us this.

So, keep up the unconstitutional prohibition then?

Ending gang violence & drug trafficking? Doubtful. If a container of pot is $25 at whatever vendor and the guy on the street-corner is selling a substitutable drug for $15...you're going to buy the cheaper drug if they do the same damn thing.

Again, I ask you to explain why alcohol ended up differently.

This is how markets work. People will always find the best goods for the lowest price, it's in our nature. Something will have to be "illegal" in order for the government to protect their new revenue stream. Either through licensing or needing a doctor's note; there is a 0% chance that pot or any drug will be completely unregulated. The unintended consequence from that? The Black Market & drug trade will still exist and after adjusting, may even become more powerful and dangerous.

I agree that government oversteps its bounds regularly, but you take it to a new level. As you pointed out, alcohol and tobacco are regulated like crazy, but all these connected side effects you claim would happen don't exist. Your argument is as much fantasy as the limited government that doesn't regulate it at all. We have current examples of this kind of stuff and your view of things being worse never came to be. You sound like the same people here in Kentucky that won't legalize casinos because they bring in organized crime and prostitution, a notion which a 30 minute drive proves to be incorrect.

Legalizing drugs, as I am aware of anyway, is a utopian fiction. It'll never happen.

Just as your doom and gloom scenario is a conservative fiction reserved for the likes of Glenn Beck. It'll never happen either.

Besides, would you feel comfortable smoking a bag of whatever if it says "MADE IN CHINA" on it? I wouldn't...

Again, look at alcohol and tobacco and explain that one.

 

[hambone8611]

100% agreed.

 

[BrutherSuperior]

Why was alcohol different?

1. Alcohol is a bit more difficult to transport than most drugs. A million dollars worth of cocaine can probably fit in a trunk of a car. Try to fit a million dollars worth of beer in your car.

2. America has changed since the roaring 20's as have the 'players' in drug trafficking. Go to Tijuana and look for yourself. Not exactly Al Capone-esque.

3. Booze was legal in Canada and Mexico. Pot is decriminalized in Vancouver and Mexico is kinda lawless with all the corruption, but I am unaware of our neighboring countries having 'legal' drugs on their proverbial books.

 

[Northstar]

1. Alcohol is a bit more difficult to transport than most drugs. A million dollars worth of cocaine can probably fit in a trunk of a car. Try to fit a million dollars worth of beer in your car.

The main reason you can fit a million dollars of coke in your trunk is because of the fact it's illegal. Therefor the street value goes up as does the risk of transporting it.

During prohibition I'm fairly certain alcohol prices went up quite abit for those same reasons.

 

[Joel]

The main reason you can fit a million dollars of coke in your trunk is because of the fact it's illegal. Therefor the street value goes up as does the risk of transporting it.

During prohibition I'm fairly certain alcohol prices went up quite abit for those same reasons.

This is true. I know it sounds silly to some, but imagine if cocaine were legal, you'd be able to buy a bottle of it at a pharmacy for low prices. It's only expensive because it's illegal.



It's funny though, prohibition and drugs today seem to have really similar arguments. People saying that there will never be clean, legitimate marijuana growers, which is exactly what was said about alcohol.

 

[Keef]

1. Alcohol is a bit more difficult to transport than most drugs. A million dollars worth of cocaine can probably fit in a trunk of a car. Try to fit a million dollars worth of beer in your car.

During Prohibition the value of alcohol was astronomical. Because of strict enforcement, it was very difficult to make, transport, and consume, and yet demand was very high. The price reflected that, just as the price of modern drugs reflect the market for them. If you know somebody you can still buy a glass jar of homemade moonshine, and it ain't cheap, that's for sure.

2. America has changed since the roaring 20's as have the 'players' in drug trafficking. Go to Tijuana and look for yourself. Not exactly Al Capone-esque.

Before Prohibition, the south land's favorite drink came from Kentucky. During Prohibition it still came from Kentucky. It still does come from Kentucky.

Before drugs were illegal, cocaine came from Colombia. It still comes from Colombia. We can safely assume that if it were legal it would still come from Colombia.

Names have changed, the ball is a different color, but the game is still the same. Move illegal product, evade authorities, charge high prices, and kill whoever gets in your way. Moonshine or coke, illegal drug trafficking is illegal drug trafficking.

3. Booze was legal in Canada and Mexico. Pot is decriminalized in Vancouver and Mexico is kinda lawless with all the corruption, but I am unaware of our neighboring countries having 'legal' drugs on their proverbial books.

I don't understand your point here. Mexico and Canada have similar black markets for illegal drugs as the US does, precisely because they are illegal but people still want them.

 

[Type S Tony]

So this is where the stoner's & Chemical heads of GTP congregate, I knew I couldnt be the only one given some questions & answers ive seen on the forum during my time here

 

[Keef]

Just keep in mind that we're discussing the legal issues of drugs, not their use.

 

[Dapper]

You guys base the idea legal drugs are cheaper off one example that happened almost 100 years ago. Meanwhile, I've given 2 examples (not from 100 years ago), and there are several more, of drugs that have become legal and then the price has gone up. This discussion is unequivocally ludicrous.

Let me guess, now the legal drug crusade will rationalize why they, the examples I've given, are more expensive, which in turn completely negates the legal drug crusades point that legal drugs are cheaper, therefore adding to the lunacy of this discussion.