Drugs

[FoolKiller]

You guys base the idea legal drugs are cheaper off one example that happened almost 100 years ago. Meanwhile, I've given 2 examples (not from 100 years ago), and there are several more, of drugs that have become legal and then the price has gone up.

Those were illegal drugs made legal, or legal drugs that had a different purpose that then developed a secondary, or even third market outside of its intended use?

Let me guess, now the legal drug crusade will rationalize why they, the examples I've given, are more expensive, which in turn completely negates the legal drug crusades point that legal drugs are cheaper, therefore adding to the lunacy of this discussion.

I am still trying to see if the "bath salts" they are crusading against here in Kentucky are the same thing you are talking about, because I don't see the prices you are claiming. In fact, you never showed any evidence of the prices. You just said it was.


And you, and BrutherSuperior, completely ignore the constitutional/liberty questions I pose. You answer what you want, argue what you want and ignore all laws of economics and market forces. Assuming the prices are what you claim they are do you think they would still be that high if they had to compete with other forms of drugs?

 

[Danoff]

So, now I have to tell both of you that you two are wrong? Ok, you are both wrong.

For the fun of it, here is another example proving you are wrong. K2 is a synthetic marijuana, mass produced, sold everywhere, and legal in all 50 states, yet it cost MORE than real marijuana. There is empirical proof your theory is wrong, again.

K2 is illegal in many states and threatened to be illegal nationwide. I can see why the price is high while it remains legal. The price of Ammo also goes up every time people think it's going to become illegal soon.

Economic theory dictates that the price will go down if pot (in various forms) becomes legal. Don't argue with economic theory. Argue that price isn't a good reason to make something legal (which it isn't).

 

[GT5Pro]

You get a lot of K2 for your money though, it too is sold by the gram and 1.5 viles are $12, 2g bags are $15, and 4g bags are $25. The only thing that holds people back is that the plant is misted with a synthetic cannabanoid and sometimes other derivatives of chemicals associated with marijuana. This causes some to resist for it being either unnatural or ignorance of the production process, while others and I find it to be quite an affordable alternative to the secritive buying process.

 

[ivoyared]

All drugs are 95% waste, toxic chemicals and rat poison. Only 5% are the actual plant/substance.

So, drugs must stay illegal.

 

[Joel]

All drugs are 95% waste, toxic chemicals and rat poison. Only 5% are the actual plant/substance.

So, drugs must stay illegal.

Do you think that if drugs were legal, this would stay the same? If drugs were legal, and prepared in a safe, lab environment, this kind of thing would change.

 

[sk0pe]

All drugs are 95% waste, toxic chemicals and rat poison. Only 5% are the actual plant/substance.

So, drugs must stay illegal.

I wonder if you know that Psilocybin the active ingredient in magic mushrooms is less toxic than aspirin?
I wonder if you know there is more deaths per year from coffee than from marijuana? Partly because there is 0 deaths from marijuana.

How many times can you be wrong in one statement?
There was no waste,toxic chemicals,or rat poison in the mushrooms i took last week?
There was no toxins or rat poison in the naturally grown organic marijuana i smoke every day.

Maybe your referring to alchohol, crack or E.... But your certainly not referring to ALL drugs.

I love how people say Alchohol and drugs, is that just to justify it in your head that you drink your drugs instead of smoking them?

The best drug in the world.

 

[drivehard]

Anyone ever try that DMT? Never heard of that one before. I agree with Mr. Rogan about psychadelics being mandatory for enlightenment.

 

[r2nyGT5]

All drugs are 95% waste, toxic chemicals and rat poison. Only 5% are the actual plant/substance.

So, drugs must stay illegal.

lol. You do realize that Caffeine is also a drug? So is nicotine, yet they are legal. I think your confused between the drug as a whole and the 'chemical'.

Now I know Marijuana is a weak drug compared to everything that's out there, but If your wondering why we need to get rid of weed prohibition, this is why:

 

[Alex.]

That video says to me, Weed makes the world a happy place and the evil government took it off us to put us all in prison / out of business. That said I do agree that it should be legal.

 

[Azuremen]

All drugs are 95% waste, toxic chemicals and rat poison. Only 5% are the actual plant/substance.

So, drugs must stay illegal.

You have no clue what you are talking about.

I'm pretty damn sure the Marijuana I see being cut from the plant is, you know, mostly plant material/substance.

Same with mushrooms.

Hard drugs are a different thing but even 95% is stretching it.

 

[ivoyared]

You have no clue what you are talking about.

I'm pretty damn sure the Marijuana I see being cut from the plant is, you know, mostly plant material/substance.

Same with mushrooms.

Hard drugs are a different thing but even 95% is stretching it.

At least here in Brazil, most of the drugs are like that. People get killed every single day because of this crap.

lol. You do realize that Caffeine is also a drug? So is nicotine, yet they are legal. I think your confused between the drug as a whole and the 'chemical'.

Where the hell caffeine is a drug?

 

[Azuremen]

Where the hell caffeine is a drug?

Every where people actually think - it is a substance that develops physiological addiction and alters the state of the mind. People will go through withdrawal from it if they are use to having it, much like alcohol and nicotine. It is just a legal drug.

 

[Joel]

It's funny seeing the generational change. I was recently in a restaurant with my family, talking to an 80+ WWII pilot. He was talking about perogies (because my brother ordered them), and where to get good ones (church dinners, etc etc).. Then he started talking about "kids these days", and how they don't want to learn how to cook because all they care about is dope.

"All these damn lazy kids today, don't want to do anything. Don't care about their job, their family, their friends, all they want to do is get high on dope."

He then went into a story about how he told off a drug dealer.

"You son of a bitch you, how can you look yourself in the mirror and say you're an honest man? You go out on the street, look for these 14 or 15 year old kids, and sell em dope. Then you get em hooked, and they can't pay for it, so you turn them into prostitutes!"

He's so out of touch with reality, but my lord was that a funny dinner On a more serious note, I think it's indicative of the perspective shift. Most kids who would identify as conservative today (myself included), don't care about drugs. Not because they're druggies (I never touch the stuff, it's nasty), but because they don't think it's a big deal. That's the thing for me, I think drugs are nasty, and I don't like being around marijuana when it's being smoked, because the smell of it drives me insane. However, it's not my business, if somebody else wants to do drugs, that's their decision. I really don't give a damn what other people do with their lives.

 

[ivoyared]

Every where people actually think - it is a substance that develops physiological addiction and alters the state of the mind. People will go through withdrawal from it if they are use to having it, much like alcohol and nicotine. It is just a legal drug.

So I am the most drugged guy here and caffeine is the less effective drug ever. I used to drink coffee a lot. Stopped a couple of months ago and I'm fine.

 

[Joel]

So I am the most drugged guy here and caffeine is the less effective drug ever. I used to drink coffee a lot. Stopped a couple of months ago and I'm fine.

It's still a drug. Drugs are anything that alters your normal bodily function, and coffee certainly does that.

 

[Azuremen]

So I am the most drugged guy here and caffeine is the less effective drug ever. I used to drink coffee a lot. Stopped a couple of months ago and I'm fine.

You really just don't get it do you?

And withdrawal from coffee last usually a week or two at most. I'd know. Right now, I probably drink 4 to 8 cups a day, and then you have tea and soda on top of that for more caffeine.

And then the time I stopped drinking vodka. Oh boy!

 

[Keef]

So I am the most drugged guy here and caffeine is the less effective drug ever. I used to drink coffee a lot. Stopped a couple of months ago and I'm fine.

Caffeine is a quite powerful psychoactive stimulant. It's mildly addictive in that your brain gets used to the stimulation. In mild cases, when it wears off you feel tired, and you grab another can of soda or another cup of coffee to bring the high back. Last week I had killer headaches from Mountain Dew withdrawal because I was staying up so late studying for tests. I got a 76% anyway because my brain was exhausted from all the caffeine and lack of sleep.

In extreme cases, caffeine can kill you dead. That can of Monster doesn't warn you about over-consumption for no reason.

 

[drivehard]

He's so out of touch with reality, but my lord was that a funny dinner On a more serious note, I think it's indicative of the perspective shift. Most kids who would identify as conservative today (myself included), don't care about drugs. Not because they're druggies (I never touch the stuff, it's nasty), but because they don't think it's a big deal. That's the thing for me, I think drugs are nasty, and I don't like being around marijuana when it's being smoked, because the smell of it drives me insane. However, it's not my business, if somebody else wants to do drugs, that's their decision. I really don't give a damn what other people do with their lives.

I think alot of conservatives feel very similar - the legalization of drugs agrees with one's politics. And when approached in this fashion the legalization of drugs is not a priority or of no great importance - it remains a consequence of ones ideology. This is how I felt for some time and to a degree still do.

Conversely, the entire notion of human intengrity and the ability to self medicate goes ignored with very few absorbing the insult. Lately I've been giving these notions the front seat when it comes to legalizing all drugs. Looking out the windshield at the road ahead I must restrain myself less I appear to be another unshaved madman playing chicken.

 

[ivoyared]

I wonder if you know that Psilocybin the active ingredient in magic mushrooms is less toxic than aspirin?
I wonder if you know there is more deaths per year from coffee than from marijuana? Partly because there is 0 deaths from marijuana.

How many times can you be wrong in one statement?
There was no waste,toxic chemicals,or rat poison in the mushrooms i took last week?
There was no toxins or rat poison in the naturally grown organic marijuana i smoke every day.

Maybe your referring to alchohol, crack or E.... But your certainly not referring to ALL drugs.

I love how people say Alchohol and drugs, is that just to justify it in your head that you drink your drugs instead of smoking them?

Wait a sec, let me see if I understand this. All your arguments are:

"Alcohol is legal, why not marijuana?"
"Coffee is legal, why not marijuana?"
"Nicotine is legal, why not marijuana?"
"Aspirine is legal, why not marijuana?"
"The government is evil and hides the benefits of marijuana."

At least aspirine, wine (alcoholic) and coffee have benefits and are only dangerous if you use/drink them too much. Only nicotine should be banned.

 

[GT_Prologue5]

Reading this is fun.

All I have to say about drugs is I don't do them. I'm also pro-marijuana legalization because of some factors.

I mean take alcohol, which is a proven killer. (my dad died a year ago from alcoholism) Take marijuana. Large amounts almost all the time won't kill you. It's non-addictive to the need of the body has to have it to function. It doesn't make you violent. It gives you a risk of cancer. Alcohol causes brain damage, liver problems, cancer, heart attacks, etc.

Yes ivoyared, since marijuana is (in an organic, non-laced state) a safe drug that can be better than others, why isn't it legalized? Too many people still believe the crap that made it illegal.

BTW, drugs are OTC, Prescription, Alcohol, Tobacco, Illegal, Unrecognized (like inhalants), and Herbal (ginseng, etc.) Just a reminder.

 

[Joel]

Caffeine is a quite powerful psychoactive stimulant. It's mildly addictive in that your brain gets used to the stimulation. In mild cases, when it wears off you feel tired, and you grab another can of soda or another cup of coffee to bring the high back. Last week I had killer headaches from Mountain Dew withdrawal because I was staying up so late studying for tests. I got a 76% anyway because my brain was exhausted from all the caffeine and lack of sleep.

In extreme cases, caffeine can kill you dead. That can of Monster doesn't warn you about over-consumption for no reason.

Lucky bastard. Mountain Dew doesn't have caffeine in Canuckistan.

 

[Danny]

Lucky bastard. Mountain Dew doesn't have caffeine in Canuckistan.

We get this, oddly as the only Mountain Dew product sold here (AFAIK).

 

[Keef]

Lucky bastard. Mountain Dew doesn't have caffeine in Canuckistan.

Really? Oh god, that's horrible. Here we get Pepsi's Throwback sodas with real sugar instead of corn syrup. Lighter, crisper, better for you. At least as good as soda can be.

MY EYES. That stuff just looks dangerous. Dangerously delicious lol.

 

[Public'sTwin]

Lucky bastard. Mountain Dew doesn't have caffeine in Canuckistan.

Yeah, we actually have two Mountain Dews, the plain kind, and the stuff Danny posted. It's newish, though—came here some time around/after 2008.

I didn't know caffeine could kill you, though—everyone's aware of the alcohol-Red Bull/energydrink relationship, but the potential for abuse seemed about as relevant as cigarettes, or genetic health disorders.

Anyway, I found this today which appears relevant (God help me if it's not):

Of particular importance to note are the few conditional statistics that were isolated:
• "When the harmful effects on individual users were unbundled from the harmful effects to others, heroin, crack cocaine and crystal meth were found to be most harmful"
• When considering the wider social effects, alcohol, heroin and crack cocaine were rated worst
• Researchers attributed alcohol’s high score to its wide use and the fact that it had devastating effects not only on drinkers, but to those around them—including auto accidents and broken homes; in addition, alcohol damages nearly every organ system, and has a higher death rate and percentage of crime-involvement than almost any other drug, with the exception of heroin

Based on multi-criteria decision analysis (MCDA) guidelines, here is the criteria used to establish the ratings:

• Mortality

• Damage

• Dependence

• Impairment of mental functioning

• Loss of tangibles

• Loss of relationships

• Injuries to others

• Crime increase

• Environmental degradation

• Family breakdowns

• International turmoil

• Economic cost

• Loss of community cohesion and reputation

For more about the study and to pick out every possible flaw in the methodology to negate all of the findings, visit here.

I don't think much of this is terribly surprising. Except for "Khat"; what the hell is that?

Edit: Khat solved:

The khat plant is known by a variety of names. [...] Khat has been grown for use as a stimulant for centuries in the Horn of Africa and the Arabian Peninsula. There, chewing khat predates the use of coffee and is used in a similar social context.

In 1854, Malay writer Abdullah bin Abdul Kadir noted that the custom of chewing Khat was prevalent in Al Hudaydah in Yemen:
"You observed a new peculiarity in this city — everyone chewed leaves as goats chew the cud. When they spat, their saliva was green. I then queried them on this matter: ‘What benefits are there to be gained from eating these leaves?’ To which they replied, ‘None whatsoever, it’s just another expense for us as we’ve grown accustomed to it’. "

Khat use has traditionally been confined to the regions where it is grown, because only the fresh leaves have the desired stimulating effects. In recent years, however, improved roads, off-road motor vehicles, and air transportation have increased the global distribution of this perishable commodity. Chewing khat is also part of the Yemeni business culture to promote decision-making, but foreigners are not expected to participate.

In other countries, khat is consumed largely by single individuals and at parties. It is mainly a recreational drug in the countries which grow khat, though it may also be used by farmers and laborers for reducing physical fatigue or hunger, and by drivers and students for improving attention.

 

[Raygt5]

I smoke a little weed maybe once or twice a month, and the thing that bothers me is there's people that will drink with the sole purpose to get drunk, and they look at me like I have a problem for smoking. I only socially drink, but its definetly upsetting how people view smoking as horrible, but getting black out drunk is having a good time.

 

[Keef]

I smoke a little weed maybe once or twice a month, and the thing that bothers me is there's people that will drink with the sole purpose to get drunk, and they look at me like I have a problem for smoking. I only socially drink, but its definetly upsetting how people view smoking as horrible, but getting black out drunk is having a good time.

Don't worry about them. Bask in the knowledge that they are stupid, or at least haven't figured it out yet. Apparently they have nothing better to live for than to forget everything they did over the weekend, eh?

Public, those stats make some pretty good sense. Alcohol is not only fairly dangerous but is only extremely common. Heroin and coke aren't nearly as common - or at least I don't know they are - but they're terribly destructive. A couple other drugs on the list are also bad, but are rare, and others still produce more chill results that don't incite violence. I'm amused that weed is just below tobacco, the major difference being that tobacco is much more common than marijuana. People like to smoke cigarettes while they drive, but weed makes smokers too damn lazy to drive in the first place!

As for caffeine, people having heart attacks from using caffeine pills, especially, is not unheard of. Seizures too. In odd cases somebody dies every now and then from extreme overdoses, usually from pills. A couple months ago I had a thing for Monster, and I drank one a little too fast one night. Keep in mind that I don't have much mass to work with, but about an hour later I had a shivering spell that lasted a good half hour, but I felt perfectly fine. No headache, no cold, not stomach ache. Just shakes that kept shaking. My dad's blood pressure goes through the roof if he drinks a Coke!

 

[Joel]

I smoke a little weed maybe once or twice a month, and the thing that bothers me is there's people that will drink with the sole purpose to get drunk, and they look at me like I have a problem for smoking. I only socially drink, but its definetly upsetting how people view smoking as horrible, but getting black out drunk is having a good time.

It's too bad that people think this. I'm a social drinker, I'll have two or three drinks every now and then, but I hate marijuana. I find it disgusting (the smell mostly). That being said, it's not like alcohol is better for you, and it's completely your decision. I dom't like it myself, but I don't think badly of people who use it, nor do I think it's any worse than alcohol.

 

[Bones Brigade]

Legalize it all. And while they're at it, legalize prostitution.

/inflammatory.

 

[Public'sTwin]

Legalize it all. And while they're at it, legalize prostitution.

/inflammatory.

Dude, that's not even inflammatory. Canada's well on its way to legalizing marijuana, and we already effectively have legalised prostitution. In fact, you may say we exist in a state of de facto marijuana legality, since no one is ever prosecuted for the most blatant of offenses. I've seen cops return a person's stash found in their car, never mind them ignoring the occasional public toke.

It's those "socially damaging" and high-addiction drugs you have to watch out for, especially in combination.

Edit: I just noticed caffeine and porn were both left off those charts. Hmm.

 

[orimarc]

I just noticed caffeine and porn were both left off those charts. Hmm.

Just because people store it in a "porn stash" doesn't mean it's a drug. It could be a "my little pony action figures stash".