Dutch Customs Tuning Shop - Your one stop tuning shop - Closed

[nd 4 holden spd]

I also would like to know if you are interested in joining your garage into the Garage Showdowns or not. It's not a common event, once a fortnight at best I think.

 

[NLxAROSA]

I have been holding back on that, especially since I'm fairly new to the tuning business and I'm still learning the tricks of the trade, but I would be interested in joining in the future. 👍

I'll get going on that Swift as soon as I'm done with the Skyline Coupe and the Viper.

 

[nd 4 holden spd]

So you don't want to enter the Showdowns, but you'll contribute a Swift for the Suzuki Swift Cup? OK. Less complicated organising for me.

 

[NLxAROSA]

Maybe I'm just being too cautious and should just enter?

[edit]
Awww what the hell, I'll just enter as soon as I finish those other cars!
[/edit]

 

[NLxAROSA]

Dodge Viper SRT10 Coupe/Tuned 750PP Online Suzuka​

So, need a powerhouse for 750PP Online Suzuka? (well, unless they change the events on 23rd that is ) Here's my Dodge Viper SRT10 Coupe/Tuned.

Hope you like the settings, feedback is always appreciated.

Power: +2
Weight: 85
Tires: R3/R3
Downforce: 18/35
Ride Height: -10/-8
Spring: 6/5
Damper: 6/5
Toe: -0.12/-0.11
Camber: 1.3/1.1
Brakes: 2/4
Steering angle: 40
Traction: OFF
ABS: 1
1st: 2308 (102 km/h)
2nd: 1588 (148 km/h)
3rd: 1239 (190 km/h)
4th: 1027 (230 km/h)
5th: 0844 (280 km/h)
6th: 0596 (429 km/h)
Final gear: 3298

 

[nd 4 holden spd]

Looks like a different approach to mine. Care for a race of the 2?

 

[NLxAROSA]

Sure, no problem. I'm currently at work though, so no racing right now. If anybody else feels like taking it for a spin right now, feel free, that's what it's here for. Don't forget to post feedback.

 

[nd 4 holden spd]

Sure, no problem. I'm currently at work though, so no racing right now. If anybody else feels like taking it for a spin right now, feel free, that's what it's here for. Don't forget to post feedback.

I'll be going to bed soon, so not now for me either. That race may not happen for days LOL.

 

[NLxAROSA]

We could either have one or two other people do it, or it will probably have to be in a weekend. Timezones suck. That, or we could have them both double-reviewed in the 'Hire a driver' thread.

 

[P3nT4gR4m]

I was planning taking Holden's viper out for a spin - I could do a head to head if you like.

Damn - I'm getting backed up with these reviews now

But the upside is I have an excuse to play more

 

[NLxAROSA]

Sure, head-to head is fine, I'd like to know how mine holds up against holden's. 👍 This starting to get more and more like real car magazines.

 

[P3nT4gR4m]

I love the whole deal - it's added a new dimension to the game for me.

I feel like a virtual Jeremy Clarkson but without the crap hairdo

 

[nd 4 holden spd]

I was planning taking Holden's viper out for a spin - I could do a head to head if you like.

Damn - I'm getting backed up with these reviews now

But the upside is I have an excuse to play more

Now you know how I feel with customer request cars. Still, I love doing it and crave for reviews all the time

Sure, head-to head is fine, I'd like to know how mine holds up against holden's. 👍 This starting to get more and more like real car magazines.

I suggested they make the "Hire a Test Driver" thread a GTP Tuning Magazine of sorts, would be cool.

I love the whole deal - it's added a new dimension to the game for me.

I feel like a virtual Jeremy Clarkson but without the crap hairdo

Or the arrogant attitude

Virtual? Dis is reel yo!

 

[BB-ANDY-]

Could i requeest a Lancer Evolution X GSR (600pp) for suzuka?

 

[mindwise]

Yeah Arosa,

I'll take that viper for a spin, i was running some laps in it anyway, i can at least tell you if i personally am quicker with your setup or the one that it's currently running.

I'm not good enough a driver to give a report, you'll have to settle with something along the lines of.

-Great
-didn't notice difference
-'can someone tow my car out of the sand please?'

I'll try and keep reading other reviews to compare my 'feeling' to their words ...

 

[NLxAROSA]

Could i requeest a Lancer Evolution X GSR (600pp) for suzuka?

Sure, no problem. I'll get to it after I finish the Swift for the Swift Cup. I hope the events don't get messed up too much after the next online update.

Yeah Arosa,

I'll take that viper for a spin, i was running some laps in it anyway, i can at least tell you if i personally am quicker with your setup or the one that it's currently running.

I'm not good enough a driver to give a report, you'll have to settle with something along the lines of.

-Great
-didn't notice difference
-'can someone tow my car out of the sand please?'

I'll try and keep reading other reviews to compare my 'feeling' to their words ...

Absolutely no problem at all. Any feedback is appreciated.

Some things to help you get going: how's the speed/stability on straights, speed and stability in corners, oversteer or understeer in places you don't want to (or exactly the way you like it), wheels spinning out or oversteer when exiting corners (or exactly the way you like it), stuff that just you really hate/like about it.

 

[mindwise]

I feel like a virtual Jeremy Clarkson but without the crap hairdo

Without the hairdo,... but dresed like a true Clarkson then i gather

Ah, well, who cares about hairdo's in supercars

 

[NLxAROSA]

Suzuki Swift for Suzuki Swift Cup​

Here's my entry for the Suzuki Swift Cup. Enjoy! As always, I like feedback!

Power: +38
Weight: 85
Tires: R2/R2
Ride Height: -40/-40
Spring: 7/6
Damper: 5/8
Toe: -0.10/+0.05
Camber: 1.5/0.5
Brakes: 4/3
Steering angle: 40
Traction: OFF
ABS: 1
1st: 2711 (70 km/h)
2nd: 2123 (90 km/h)
3rd: 1478 (130 km/h)
4th: 1164 (165 km/h)
5th: 0934 (220 km/h)
Final gear: 4124

 

[mindwise]

Dodge Viper SRT10 Coupe/Tuned 750PP Online Suzuka​

So, need a powerhouse for 750PP Online Suzuka? (well, unless they change the events on 23rd that is ) Here's my Dodge Viper SRT10 Coupe/Tuned.

Hope you like the settings, feedback is always appreciated.

Power: +2
Weight: 85
Tires: R3/R3
Downforce: 18/35
Ride Height: -10/-8
Spring: 6/5
Damper: 6/5
Toe: -0.12/-0.11
Camber: 1.3/1.1
Brakes: 2/4
Steering angle: 40
Traction: OFF
ABS: 1
1st: 2308 (102 km/h)
2nd: 1588 (148 km/h)
3rd: 1239 (190 km/h)
4th: 1027 (230 km/h)
5th: 0844 (280 km/h)
6th: 0596 (429 km/h)
Final gear: 3298

Hi There Arosa,

I liked the setup for most parts, i didn't quite get to the 429KM/h in 6th though so i did make a change there...

I thought it ran quite stable, i didn;t have to be to carefull accelerating out of the chicane onto the start/finish, that's good.

I did miss most of my normal brake points, so i changed the brakes to suit me more (i am more of a frontbias fan myself )
(6-4 in case you want to know).
wrt braking, i drive abs 1 myself, i'm wondering how much influence front/back bias actually has when you have a system called ABS in place... i don't know...

I'm not too fast (unfortunately) but i did get consistant times (between 2:04 and 2:05)

As always, i want more grip, but i don't like trains, so what am i going to do? (invent special super glue that only glues for a fraction of a second).

Thanks for the setup, it felt balanced to me.

Race you later ! ?

 

[NLxAROSA]

6th gear can't get any shorter, I know it looks pretty weird. If you like it otherwise, feel free to adapt it to your own personal settings ofcourse.

About the brakes: after need 4 holden speed's remarks about brakes on the Skyline Coupe, I did some reading up on the matter and how you should set them up.

The idea is that locking up of the wheels means loss of control and longer breaking distances (meaning: you will lose time). So I do brake-testing without ABS to see which wheels (front or rear) lock up under hard braking (both straight and while turning in).

In case of the Viper, the front wheels lock up way before the rear wheels do, hence the lower setting for the front brakes. If you reverse the setting, the wheels will lock up under braking pretty fast and your breaking distances will increase. (meaning: you will lose time)

Now how does ABS affect this. Basically, ABS prevents the wheels from locking up by releasing and applying the brakes very fast (pumping) when you slam them. While ABS decreases braking distances compared to when the wheels would lock up, the braking distance is still longer than when the wheels would continue spinning normally. So you want to minimise the use of ABS.

If you use a too high settings for the brakes, ABS will work overtime and your braking distances will increase.

So yes, the amount of brakes for front and rear is still very relevant when using ABS.

I did some reading up on this and it actually appears to be working rather well. I will have to re-evaluate some of my earlier tunes though, their brake settings are probably a bit (or way) off.

 

[mindwise]

Hi Arosa,

Tbh, i know of no car that applies more brake to the rear wheels then to the front. (being the layman that i am )

The reason i thought is that the mass of the car will shift to the front while braking right? so the front wheels have most traction, applying more braking to the rear should lock these wheels and send you spinning off if you touch the wheel while braking. (which is what abs is preventing from happening)

Wrt to the 6th gear, i think you may have overlooked the final gearing of the viper?

Many thanks again for your tune, i have a lot to learn

 

[nd 4 holden spd]

Hi Arosa,

Tbh, i know of no car that applies more brake to the rear wheels then to the front. (being the layman that i am )

The reason i thought is that the mass of the car will shift to the front while braking right? so the front wheels have most traction, applying more braking to the rear should lock these wheels and send you spinning off if you touch the wheel while braking. (which is what abs is preventing from happening)

Wrt to the 6th gear, i think you may have overlooked the final gearing of the viper?

Many thanks again for your tune, i have a lot to learn

True, but if to much weight shifts to the front wheels they can become overloaded when you try to turn.

 

[NLxAROSA]

True, it depends on how much weight a car carries and how it is distributed along the car. You can also use brake-settings to prevent (or induce) oversteer. I use the above-mentioned method for determining my brake settings and I find it works rather well. I was indeed surprised to some of the results, but it seems to work. In the GTVault tuning guide they mention a similar way of determining brake settings.

 

[mindwise]

True, but if to much weight shifts to the front wheels they can become overloaded when you try to turn.

That's correct, but the ammount of weight transferred is a product of suspension is it not?.
Suspension (weight transfer) deteremines the amount of brake bias, not vice versa.

Nice read http://www.stoptech.com/tech_info/wp_brakebiasandperformance.shtml

That said, it is true that some people will prefer 'rear bias' for brakes, but from a stopping perspective, i find it (thinking i understand a little bit the physics involved) really hard to believe it is more effective.
(and people have the weirdes preferences )

But like i mentioned before, tuning i find really hard, i guess i'm just not good enough a driver to 'read' whether my suspension lacks optimal tracktion or if just apply too much gas

So i'm keen to learn, but as you see decades of racing sims did make me a bit hardheaded on some points (but provide me a tune with which i take off 2 seconds of my best time within 20 runs and i'm convinced 👍)

Thnanks, i enjoy this discussion.

 

[NLxAROSA]

There is ofcourse a very simple method to see which method is most effective in reducing brake distance. Simply try them both on the same piece of track. See which one stops earlier. The other thing to look at is stability during braking, especially when turning into a corner simultaniously (like the first turn of Suzuka).

 

[mindwise]

The other thing to look at is stability during braking, especially when turning into a corner simultaniously (like the first turn of Suzuka).

Yeah, cornering while braking, not GT5's 'simulation physics' finest hour i'm afraid
Especially when brake bias is set to the rear ;p

Wrt the 'brake-test' i think i mentioned i missed my brake point every time in the (messy) "review" i gave, i'm curious to learn if the brake-settings i fed-back made you miss your brake-points (which would mean back to the test-track for me, because i must have made a mistake then).

Tnx for your time Arosa, and don't forget to work from time to time ;p (as i guess you are at work now).

 

[NLxAROSA]

Well, not anymore, at home right now. (I am in a position where it's okay to browse forums every now and then ) Different brake settings have different brake points ofcourse, so I'll give your settings a go, the first few laps I'll probably need to adjust to the different setup, but after that it should be okay. I'll give them a go tonight. I'll also do a test braking on a straight and braking in the first corner on Suzuka, see what happens.

 

[NLxAROSA]

I did some breaks testing yesterday, both with ABS on and off. The results I'm getting are slightly weird. I don't know if this is due to my way of testing or driving style, so I'll continue testing some more. Some preliminary results.

First I started some straight line braking. I used the straight line of Suzuka. Starting from standstill at the starting line, I pull full throttle until I get to the blueish overhead banner, at which point I slam the brakes. I then determine my position based on the number of lamp posts and the barrier in between.

First off it's the 2/4 setting, no ABS. As expected, the wheels do not lockup during braking (not very surprisingly, since I already tested this).

Second it's the 6/4 setting, no ABS. As expected, the wheels do lockup during braking, but this does not lead to a significant difference in brake distance. There is some difference, but this could also be accounted for by not shifting at the exact same time, starting slightly off, braking just a bit earlier/later.

With ABS set to 1, neither setting will lock up, again, comparable braking distances.

So much for straight line brake testing. Now it's time to take some corners. I decide to do 2 laps with each settings to see how they work out.

First the 2/4 setting, without ABS: As expected, this goes rather smooth, no real lockups during any cornering or straight line braking. Business as usual.

Next the 6/4 setting: Without ABS, this setting will kill your laptimes. When braking and steering at the same time, the wheels lockup very quickly, causing the car to go further in a straight line until traction is restored and you regain control. To even keep the car on track requires braking very early and very gentle touching of the brakes. Definitely a no-no in my book.

Now for the settings with ABS set to 1. As expected, the 2/4 setting still runs very smooth, no lockups at all, very nice laptimes.

Now comes the big surprise: I expect the 6/4 setting not to lock up, but I expect some longer braking distances because the ABS needs to counter all the locking up (which it does very often as I saw with the test without ABS) by varying the braking power, resulting in longer braking distances. But the opposite is true: not only do the wheels not lock up, braking distances are actually shorter! WTH? Since this was is weird I decided to go with a 10/8 setting. Same deal: set ABS to 0 and you have a car that is uncontrollable (as is to be expected). With ABS set to 1 this produces very short braking distances and it's hard to notice the difference with 6/4. I expected much bigger differences!

So what's the deal here? Is my test crap, are the braking physics crap? Do I need to re-evaluate the way I use the brakes? Anybody care to enlighten me, as I'm completely baffled by these results.

 

[nd 4 holden spd]

That's correct, but the ammount of weight transferred is a product of suspension is it not?.
Suspension (weight transfer) deteremines the amount of brake bias, not vice versa.

Nice read http://www.stoptech.com/tech_info/wp_brakebiasandperformance.shtml

That said, it is true that some people will prefer 'rear bias' for brakes, but from a stopping perspective, i find it (thinking i understand a little bit the physics involved) really hard to believe it is more effective.
(and people have the weirdes preferences )

But like i mentioned before, tuning i find really hard, i guess i'm just not good enough a driver to 'read' whether my suspension lacks optimal tracktion or if just apply too much gas

So i'm keen to learn, but as you see decades of racing sims did make me a bit hardheaded on some points (but provide me a tune with which i take off 2 seconds of my best time within 20 runs and i'm convinced 👍)

Thnanks, i enjoy this discussion.

The way I see it? Each tyre has a set amount of grip it can handle before braking loose. With more sensitive rear brakes more of that grip is diverted to "stopping grip", and less on the front means more of the tyres grip can be used for "turning grip". If the front tyres have more grip for turning than the rear then presumably the front tyres could turn faster into the corner yes? It's all about allocating the tyre's max grip level percentages I think. Does that make sense? It might not even be right and as always I'm sure there are other factors affecting the scenario, but just some food for thought.

 

[mindwise]

Hi Holden (if that's an acceptable abbreveation, an abreviation that , reading this lenghty addendum, was better left unused )

Yes, what you say makes sense, a lot of sense.
Afaik, if someone applies brakes while close to the max G in a corner, the car will leave the track, exactly for the reason you describe.

Arosa, there's another thread wrt the braking that is puzzling our brains.
I think your method and results -(for which i thank you)- make sense in the light of the current implementation of the braking and abs in gt5p:

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=105753&highlight=threshold+braking