E3 2011: The Parallel Paths of Forza Motorsport 4

[GTP_Rcrcool9]

Top Gear Test Track @1:05

Also hearing that the Kinect only lets you steer is music to my ears. Forza 4 had me interested in Kinect but after this year's Kinect-is-now-in-everything E3 conference I think I'll continue to avoid it on principle.

I have to admit, this game looks good, but the Kinect feature is pointless. I'd rather use a wheel to race instead of playing with my hands.

 

[Digitool]

I have to admit, this game looks good, but the Kinect feature is pointless. I'd rather use a wheel to race instead of playing with my hands.

you can use a wheel and use the kinect for head tracking...

 

[Akira AC]

you can use a wheel and use the kinect for head tracking...

Still it doesn't justify that expense,I rather buy a wheel or have a nice dinner in a fancy restaurant.

 

[sandboxgod]

Hey guys anyone spotted mention of Porches in FM4 yet?

 

[GumShoe]

What games do you recommend?

Shift 2, but after the next patch is released.

The innovations (some not so much, just advancements):

In cockpit experience - I've never seen so many people comment on the racing being so 'intense' and 'immersive' in a racer as I have for Shift 2. This is through the Helmet cam, damage modelling, sound, intelligent AI and sense of speed.

Little details - leaves blow around on the track, marbles get kicked up, wipers/mirrors vibrate, heat haze from the bonnet on front engine cars, bonnet shake at speed, all in car gauges work, even odometer, oil pressure etc, suspension modelling is incredible, just hit a jump at the wrong angle

Night racing - It's brilliant and scary, as it should be, and it hasn't been done before in the way SMS did it with Shift 2

'Works conversions' - almost every single car can be upgraded from stock road car to full spec racer, with bodykits that reflect RL kits from different racing series.

Live tuning - you can tune the car with telemetry while driving on the track, just pause the game, tune, resume and the new tuning is set instantly.

Unfortunately there are a lot of people experiencing input lag and crashes on PS3 at the moment, but the next patch (1.03 on PS3/360, 1.02 on PC) should fix all that.

I would definitely recommend giving the game a go if you want intense racing. Just make sure you go past the first couple of 'forced' races, they don't give the best impression of what is underneath.

Forza 4's 'Rival mode' was clearly inspired by Autolog used in Hot Pursuit and Shift 2 (Autolog is awesome). Image based lighting was also used in those two games.

I'm excited for Forza 4, with improved graphics (didn't like them in F3 much), if the AI are improved and the tracks more accurate I'll be happy.

 

[Bogie 19th]

PGR4 has a track editor,I need to check that out.

Also I hope that FM4 bring lan multiplayer,I known is pretty outdated but It would be nice to have it,specially for parties and stuff.

Actually pgr3. I got them backwards.

I have to admit, this game looks good, but the Kinect feature is pointless. I'd rather use a wheel to race instead of playing with my hands.

Most of us will be using Kinect for the head tracking, voice commands and AutoVista. I am confident that none of us will use it to actually steer the car.

Still it doesn't justify that expense,I rather buy a wheel or have a nice dinner in a fancy restaurant.

It doesn't justify the expense for one game, no. But many of us have Kinect or are getting Kinect for other games anyway. Many might not be able to justify the expense for 3 screen setups, but many do.

Shift 2 The innovations:

In cockpit experience - I've never seen so many people comment on the racing being so 'intense' and 'immersive' in a racer as I have for Shift 2. This is through the Helmet cam, damage modelling, sound, intelligent AI and sense of speed.

TDU had helmet cam before Shift 2. Hundreds of other racers have had damage, intelligent AI, sense of speed and excellent sound.

Little details - leaves blow around on the track, marbles get kicked up, wipers/mirrors vibrate, heat haze from the bonnet on front engine cars, bonnet shake at speed, all in car gauges work, even odometer, oil pressure etc, suspension modelling is incredible, just hit a jump at the wrong angle

Seen in many other games before Shift 2. Heck, I remember back 10 years ago when NFS (Hot Pursuit series) had blowing leaves and debris on the track. None of those items you have listed are innovative.

Night racing - It's brilliant and scary, as it should be, and it hasn't been done before in the way SMS did it with Shift 2

Done countless times in previous racers, including GT5 as of most recent. Not innovative.

'Works conversions' - almost every single car can be upgraded from stock road car to full spec racer, with bodykits that reflect RL kits from different racing series.

Done for years in other racers, not innovative.

Live tuning - you can tune the car with telemetry while driving on the track, just pause the game, tune, resume and the new tuning is set instantly.

Welcome to PC racing from many years ago.

Everything you mentioned, while GREAT, no doubt, is not innovative. They have just taken ideas from different games and implemented them. Can't complain though, the more features the better.

 

[CAMAROBOY69]

I played Forza 3 for about 15 hours straight online yesterday. I sure hope they allow us to tune our setups while in the mp lobby. A lot of times I will just have a simple gear ratio fix or adjustment, but have to leave the lobby, make the adjustment, then come back in.

I also hope they fix the way we load tuning setups online. We should pick our car, THEN pick the tuning set up. Currently you go to tuning setup, then find the car you want to put the set up on, then apply the setup.

Thats my only major complaint with F3.

 

[Luminis]

Straight from my mouth. And they actually do it after GT.
[...]
GT does not do this innovations perfectly (by any means) but they've dare to try.

Uh, what? innovation has absolutely zero place in anything that tries to simulate the real thing, because you're not innovating, you're replicating. At least as far as the main game goes.

What innovations did GT5 bring along? Is there anything that wasn't done before GT5, that's actually any good? I mean, you could, for example, call the painting system GT offers 'innovative', but if that's the kind of innovation PD is going to offer, well, I think I'll pass, thanks. Or maybe the car maintance? Because you're going to pay, what, half of the car's price to get the chassis sorted once you've driven a mile? Or maybe tyres that run without any presure?

All they did was cram features into the game and a lot of them are just half-assed.

So, I don't get your point. PD copy-pasted features other games had long before, what's 'innovative' about that?
Hell, Autovista is more innovative than anything GT5 has to offer. And, still, I'd much, much rather see a game do the established stuff well than offer loads and loads of pseudo-innovative rubbish.

People calling PD innovative... That's actually quite suprising. The game feels like you're playing something straight from 1998, and that's called 'innovation', just because the games that did it before didn't look as good?

Let's be honest, the last time a developer offered something that was truly unheard of in a racing game (that actually happened on the track, not some side game, like Autovista) was probably a decade ago.

Still it doesn't justify that expense,I rather buy a wheel or have a nice dinner in a fancy restaurant.

I sure hope you were calling GT5's Move features out as being pointless, too. In this game, you can at least do more than just use for headtracking only, including voice recognition and Autovista.

But, you know, there's this feeling that you, you know, didn't.

 

[alucard0712]

Shift 2, but after the next patch is released.

The innovations (some not so much, just advancements):

In cockpit experience - I've never seen so many people comment on the racing being so 'intense' and 'immersive' in a racer as I have for Shift 2. This is through the Helmet cam, damage modelling, sound, intelligent AI and sense of speed.

Little details - leaves blow around on the track, marbles get kicked up, wipers/mirrors vibrate, heat haze from the bonnet on front engine cars, bonnet shake at speed, all in car gauges work, even odometer, oil pressure etc, suspension modelling is incredible, just hit a jump at the wrong angle

Night racing - It's brilliant and scary, as it should be, and it hasn't been done before in the way SMS did it with Shift 2

'Works conversions' - almost every single car can be upgraded from stock road car to full spec racer, with bodykits that reflect RL kits from different racing series.

Live tuning - you can tune the car with telemetry while driving on the track, just pause the game, tune, resume and the new tuning is set instantly.

Unfortunately there are a lot of people experiencing input lag and crashes on PS3 at the moment, but the next patch (1.03 on PS3/360, 1.02 on PC) should fix all that.

I would definitely recommend giving the game a go if you want intense racing. Just make sure you go past the first couple of 'forced' races, they don't give the best impression of what is underneath.

Forza 4's 'Rival mode' was clearly inspired by Autolog used in Hot Pursuit and Shift 2 (Autolog is awesome). Image based lighting was also used in those two games.

I'm excited for Forza 4, with improved graphics (didn't like them in F3 much), if the AI are improved and the tracks more accurate I'll be happy.

Shift 2 has HUGE input lag (at least on consoles) - after GT - I can't drive the car - I'm fighting with controls.

Second about Shift 2 is - it's 30fps (on consoles). Major drawback from GT or FM.

Another thing is game's main focus. When I've said "immersion" It doesn't automatically mean I need a Burnout game from "sim". I need just graphics to be as good as possible and as real as possible. Without turning racer into mad arcade-fun game. You just misunderstood me.

Otherwise NFSS2 a good game, but input lag makes the game unplayable for me. (actually it makes me mad)

 

[Evian]

I would like read Aluccard if all the fails that have GT5 would have other racing car games ..... maybe terrible.

If 80 % of number cars are recicled from last consoles generation this isn't a problem ( Kaz make this with love for you guy ... ), if the motor sounds of most cars have a terrible experience also isn't a problem ( Kaz haven't more time, but he loves you ..) , if the most car vehicles haven't any option of modification also is not a problem ( Kaz ..... ) , if many circuits are recicled from PS2 have a terrible quality who is enough crazy for question this ( Kaz ... ) ... and many , many more ..


Be serious friend, if the rival of your favorite game must had all this fails read your opinions would be unbearable.


*** : Sorry Scaff, is clear that this post has resulted in the usual case ..

 

[Pierced Lead]

I would like read Aluccard if all the fails that have GT5 would have other racing car games ..... maybe terrible.

If 80 % of number cars are recicled from last consoles generation this isn't a problem ( Kaz make this with love for you guy ... ), if the motor sounds of most cars have a terrible experience also isn't a problem ( Kaz haven't more time, but he loves you ..) , if the most car vehicles haven't any option of modification also is not a problem ( Kaz ..... ) , if many circuits are recicled from PS2 have a terrible quality who is enough crazy for question this ( Kaz ... ) ... and many , many more ..


Be serious friend, if the rival of your favorite game must had all this fails read your opinions would be unbearable.


*** : Sorry Scaff, is clear that this post has resulted in the usual case ..

 

[dzidza]

Uh, what? innovation has absolutely zero place in anything that tries to simulate the real thing, because you're not innovating, you're replicating. At least as far as the main game goes.

What innovations did GT5 bring along? Is there anything that wasn't done before GT5, that's actually any good? I mean, you could, for example, call the painting system GT offers 'innovative', but if that's the kind of innovation PD is going to offer, well, I think I'll pass, thanks. Or maybe the car maintance? Because you're going to pay, what, half of the car's price to get the chassis sorted once you've driven a mile? Or maybe tyres that run without any presure?

All they did was cram features into the game and a lot of them are just half-assed.

So, I don't get your point. PD copy-pasted features other games had long before, what's 'innovative' about that?
Hell, Autovista is more innovative than anything GT5 has to offer. And, still, I'd much, much rather see a game do the established stuff well than offer loads and loads of pseudo-innovative rubbish.

People calling PD innovative... That's actually quite suprising. The game feels like you're playing something straight from 1998, and that's called 'innovation', just because the games that did it before didn't look as good?

Let's be honest, the last time a developer offered something that was truly unheard of in a racing game (that actually happened on the track, not some side game, like Autovista) was probably a decade ago.


I sure hope you were calling GT5's Move features out as being pointless, too. In this game, you can at least do more than just use for headtracking only, including voice recognition and Autovista.

But, you know, there's this feeling that you, you know, didn't.

For Autovista --> NFS Porsche unleashed

I agree with you, there is hardly any innovation in racing games. Headtracking is not inovation, maybe on consoles, and voice recognition also. I used to play rfactor with homemade head tracking device (with 6 pow's) and used voice recognition software in order to have a little button assigned as possible.

 

[Luminis]

For Autovista --> NFS Porsche unleashed

I agree with you, there is hardly any innovation in racing games. Headtracking is not inovation, maybe on consoles, and voice recognition also. I used to play rfactor with homemade head tracking device (with 6 pow's) and used voice recognition software in order to have a little button assigned as possible.

Hehe, well, so even that has been done before

Well, yeah, games have been getting a bit stale by now. So much stuff has been done that most games are starting to be carbon copies of older games, or a mix of those; and if there's a genre that's pretty narrow in design space, it's racing games... The last thing that tried to somewhat brake the mold was Blur, I think. Not exactly what I would call a brilliant game

 

[dzidza]

Hehe, well, so even that has been done before

Well, yeah, games have been getting a bit stale by now. So much stuff has been done that most games are starting to be carbon copies of older games, or a mix of those; and if there's a genre that's pretty narrow in design space, it's racing games... The last thing that tried to somewhat brake the mold was Blur, I think. Not exactly what I would call a brilliant game

Innovation in GT5 --> oil change, but only for one car at the time :-(.

Yeap it's hard to be innovative in racing gender nowadays. But that doesn't mean devs shouldn't try :-).

 

[Saidur_Ali]

Uh, what? innovation has absolutely zero place in anything that tries to simulate the real thing, because you're not innovating, you're replicating. At least as far as the main game goes.

What innovations did GT5 bring along? Is there anything that wasn't done before GT5, that's actually any good? I mean, you could, for example, call the painting system GT offers 'innovative', but if that's the kind of innovation PD is going to offer, well, I think I'll pass, thanks. Or maybe the car maintance? Because you're going to pay, what, half of the car's price to get the chassis sorted once you've driven a mile? Or maybe tyres that run without any presure?

All they did was cram features into the game and a lot of them are just half-assed.

So, I don't get your point. PD copy-pasted features other games had long before, what's 'innovative' about that?
Hell, Autovista is more innovative than anything GT5 has to offer. And, still, I'd much, much rather see a game do the established stuff well than offer loads and loads of pseudo-innovative rubbish.

People calling PD innovative... That's actually quite suprising. The game feels like you're playing something straight from 1998, and that's called 'innovation', just because the games that did it before didn't look as good?

Let's be honest, the last time a developer offered something that was truly unheard of in a racing game (that actually happened on the track, not some side game, like Autovista) was probably a decade ago.


I sure hope you were calling GT5's Move features out as being pointless, too. In this game, you can at least do more than just use for headtracking only, including voice recognition and Autovista.

But, you know, there's this feeling that you, you know, didn't.

If that is the case, then Turn 10 must be one of the least innovative game developers as all it's ideas in the game have been done before and they are still catching up. None of the features such as night racing and weather and rally have been done yet in the Forza series and these features have been done a decade ago in quite a few racing games.

 

[Luminis]

Innovation in GT5 --> oil change, but only for one car at the time :-(.

Wasn't that in basically any Gran Turismo?^^

Yeap it's hard to be innovative in racing gender nowadays. But that doesn't mean devs shouldn't try :-).

Asbolutely, as long as they're not trying to innovate just for the sake of innovating - because that usually just creates a mess of a game

If that is the case, then Turn 10 must be one of the least innovative game developers as all it's ideas in the game have been done before and they are still catching up. None of the features such as night racing and weather and rally have been done yet in the Forza series and these features have been done a decade ago in quite a few racing games.

Your point being? Livery editors have also been around for years, for example. Does GT5 have one? No. Does Shift 2 have one? Yes, but it's barely of any use, at all. Tyre physics, read: Tyre pressure have also been simulated for years. Does GT5 do that? No. Well, Shift 2 does, as does Forza. Gymkhana has been done before. Shift 2 does that, a wee bit. Neither GT nor Forza do.

The Forza series did night racing, by the way. And for Rally, why would it have to include that?

Again, what's your point? No racing game to date offers all the features there ever were...

 

[dzidza]

Wasn't that in basically any Gran Turismo?^^

Yes, my mistake.

[QUOTE/]Asbolutely, as long as they're not trying to innovate just for the sake of innovating - because that usually just creates a mess of a game [/QUOTE]


I know what you mean :-)

 

[Spagetti69]

Actually me and my friends sometimes did Ghymkhana in the playground area on forza 3.

There's not much left to innovate on what other games have done.

Blue shell anyone......

 

[Saidur_Ali]

Your point being? Livery editors have also been around for years, for example. Does GT5 have one? No. Does Shift 2 have one? Yes, but it's barely of any use, at all. Tyre physics, read: Tyre pressure have also been simulated for years. Does GT5 do that? No. Well, Shift 2 does. Gymkhana has been done before. Shift 2 does that, a wee bit. Neither GT nor Forza do.

The Forza series did night racing, by the way. And for Rally, why would it have to include that?

Again, what's your point? No racing game to date offers all the features there ever were...

You can change the colour of the car which is some sort of livery editing as well as race modding some of the cars and changing the number written the car. You could say GT5 does have a basic livery editor but it also has a track generator too which games like Shift and Forza don't have.
How do you know GT5 does not simulate tyre pressures, just because it doesn't allow you to change tyre pressures doesn't mean it doesn't simulate it. The Coffee break part in previous GT games could be considered some kind of Gymkhana style mode but that is clutching at straws.

About Rally, it is just another form of motorsport and maybe Forza 4 will include it and also was it Forza 1 that did night racing?

Anyway I think GT5 as a package does the most out of Shift and Forza, features wise but does not do everything fully. It is strange to call PD not innovative as they created their own concepts cars with obviously some help for virtual and possiblity of real world such as Citroen GT and the X2010 which is innovative for a games company, do Turn 10 or Slightly Mad Studios do such a thing?

 

[Bogie 19th]

If that is the case, then Turn 10 must be one of the least innovative game developers as all it's ideas in the game have been done before and they are still catching up. None of the features such as night racing and weather and rally have been done yet in the Forza series and these features have been done a decade ago in quite a few racing games.

I suppose GT would even be the LEAST innovative, because they are on their 5th version now, and every feature in the game has been copied from another game as well.

You can change the colour of the car

A feature that GT copied.

which is some sort of livery editing

A feature that GT copied.

as well as race modding some of the cars

A feature that GT copied.

and changing the number written the car.

A feature that GT copied.

it also has a track generator

A feature that GT copied.

How do you know GT5 does not simulate tyre pressures, just because it doesn't allow you to change tyre pressures doesn't mean it doesn't simulate it.

Then how can you simulate it? If I have a car, and I want the tires at 28psi each, how do I simulate that if I can change the tire pressure?

Anyway I think GT5 as a package does the most out of Shift and Forza, features wise but does not do everything fully.

Exactly. Just like Shift and Forza do everything that GT5 does as a package feature wise, but does not do everything fully.

 

[Luminis]

You can change the colour of the car which is some sort of livery editing as well as race modding some of the cars and changing the number written the car. You could say GT5 does have a basic livery editor but it also has a track generator too which games like Shift and Forza don't have.

You call that a 'livery editor'? Good god, how biased can you be?

How do you know GT5 does not simulate tyre pressures, just because it doesn't allow you to change tyre pressures doesn't mean it doesn't simulate it. The Coffee break part in previous GT games could be considered some kind of Gymkhana style mode but that is clutching at straws.

Uh, what good is a tyre pressure if it can't be changed? The simple matter of the fact is, GT5 skipped the whole tyre physics thingy completely.

About Rally, it is just another form of motorsport and maybe Forza 4 will include it and also was it Forza 1 that did night racing?

Yes, it was FM1. Still, I don't see much reason to add Rally. FM isn't as narrow as, say, Dirt 3 or Formula 1 2010, but that doesn't mean it has to spread itself thin just to do more kinds of racing. It does have Autocross, though

Anyway I think GT5 as a package does the most out of Shift and Forza, features wise but does not do everything fully.

Yeah, GT5 has the most bullet points on the back, just as it has the most cars. We all know how that turned out.

It is strange to call PD not innovative as they created their own concepts cars with obviously some help for virtual and possiblity of real world such as Citroen GT and the X2010 which is innovative for a games company, do Turn 10 or Slightly Mad Studios do such a thing?

Why would they? Why does Pd do it, in the first place? If we're talking about fantasy cars (that's what the x2010 is), games like Ridge Racer do that. If yoou're asking me, if they spend less time on designing concepts and more time on designing a game, GT5 would be twice the game it is.

 

[cuco33]

You can change the colour of the car which is some sort of livery editing..

no... not it's not.
Changing the color of a car is just that, changing the color of a car.
It is by no means a livery editor.

 

[Crispy]

Maybe tire pressure is simulated by changing from Racing Hards to Softs.

In Forza you could change the Tire PSI to make it have less air. THis would make it soft and increase the grip, much like Racing Softs in GT. Or increase Tire Pressure, and have the tires wear a lot less, much like Racing Hards.

 

[Saidur_Ali]

You call that a 'livery editor'? Good god, how biased can you be?


Uh, what good is a tyre pressure if it can't be changed? The simple matter of the fact is, GT5 skipped the whole tyre physics thingy completely.


Yes, it was FM1. Still, I don't see much reason to add Rally. FM isn't as narrow as, say, Dirt 3 or Formula 1 2010, but that doesn't mean it has to spread itself thin just to do more kinds of racing. It does have Autocross, though


Yeah, GT5 has the most bullet points on the back, just as it has the most cars. We all know how that turned out.


Why would they? Why does Pd do it, in the first place? If we're talking about fantasy cars (that's what the x2010 is), games like Ridge Racer do that. If yoou're asking me, if they spend less time on designing concepts and more time on designing a game, GT5 would be twice the game it is.

Definition of car livery is something along the lines of "The external paint colour and style of decoration on vehicles." In GT5 you can change the colour, yes, and on some cars change also the decoration of the vehicle, yes to a small extent so I don't see how I'm being biased. Obviously you can't change the design as much as Forza but it has some livery editing features.

I would not even play GT5 if they had skipped the tyre physics completely, I'm pretty sure something is happening as tyres can be overloaded and also be worn out.

We know how that turned out and it became the most successful PS3 exclusive in terms of sales. Sure it was a flop in reviews but a lot of them were written like they were out to get PD and ended up suprised at how well the game did. Maybe the sales in America were hurt but in Europe and Japan it did well.

The X2010 was designed on the concept of real world physics. That is according to Adrian Newey, and would you argue with him. I mean he is building cars with insane downforce with the strict F1 regulations. I think it is possible to create car with similar performance, however due to the G-Force, I don't think you will be able to do more than a lap on the limit. Only cost and time is stopping it being made. I rather PD continue doing this as it gives it's brand a bigger recognition in the actual automotive industry such as with the GTR making the display and also designing aerodynamic parts for some cars. GT Academy also helps with this and is the only game that gives some people the chance to become a real racing driver.

GT5 does simulate electric, hybrid and fan cars, does any other car game do that? I think it is quite innovating as far as car games go if it is the first one to simulate this in a commercial game.

 

[Spagetti69]

Maybe tire pressure is simulated by changing from Racing Hards to Softs.

In Forza you could change the Tire PSI to make it have less air. THis would make it soft and increase the grip, much like Racing Softs in GT. Or increase Tire Pressure, and have the tires wear a lot less, much like Racing Hards.

No not really.

Racing hard and softs refer to the compound they are made off.

Oh Ali, about the livery editor fiasco.
How is changing a colour of a car, changing the livery.

The Walls in my house are made up of liveries are they?

 

[Saidur_Ali]

No not really.

Racing hard and softs refer to the compound they are made off.

Oh Ali, about the livery editor fiasco.
How is changing a colour of a car, changing the livery.

The Walls in my house are made up of liveries are they?

Depends on what your definition of livery is? If for say you bought a car in real life and then resprayed the colour of it, would you say you have changed the livery of your car?

 

[t.o.]

Guys forget about trying to reason and debate with saidur_ali. I have a PM Box full of messages from this guy trying to convince himself and me that GT5's damage was better than Forza's. I mean really, you can be a fanboy all you want but there comes a point where it's just embarrassing. He reached that point and then some. There's certain things that you just can't argue. And that's one of them.

Some how to him damage that looked like melted candle wax was better than damage that looks like real life. Somehow aero damage not affecting the car was perfectly fine compared to damaged aero affecting your car. The list goes on......

 

[Spagetti69]

Depends on what your definition of livery is? If for say you bought a car in real life and then resprayed the colour of it, would you say you have changed the livery of your car?

No I wouldn't.

I would say I have changed the colour.
Livery to me represents logos, emblems and multitude of colours.

Even Kaz doesn't agree with you when he said that a livery editor may come in the future. He never said we already have one.

 

[Luminis]

Definition of car livery is something along the lines of "The external paint colour and style of decoration on vehicles." In GT5 you can change the colour, yes, and on some cars change also the decoration of the vehicle, yes to a small extent so I don't see how I'm being biased. Obviously you can't change the design as much as Forza but it has some livery editing features.

I think you need to get your definition of 'livery' sorted.

A livery is the specific paint scheme and sticker design used in motorsport, on vehicles, in order to attract sponsorship and to advertise sponsors. See e.g. Formula One sponsorship liveries.

You can't do that in GT. Or have you been able to change a sponsor for antoher?

I would not even play GT5 if they had skipped the tyre physics completely, I'm pretty sure something is happening as tyres can be overloaded and also be worn out.

Tyre physics means that the game simulates how the tyre flexes, increses or lowers its pressure and so on. It has been stated numerous times that GT doesn't do this.

We know how that turned out and it became the most successful PS3 exclusive in terms of sales. Sure it was a flop in reviews but a lot of them were written like they were out to get PD and ended up suprised at how well the game did. Maybe the sales in America were hurt but in Europe and Japan it did well.

Mario Card outsells GT. So, that's a better game, right? Sales numbers mean relatively little if we're talking about quality.

The X2010 was designed on the concept of real world physics. That is according to Adrian Newey, and would you argue with him. I mean he is building cars with insane downforce with the strict F1 regulations. I think it is possible to create car with similar performance, however due to the G-Force, I don't think you will be able to do more than a lap on the limit.

Uh, yeah. Take a look at the G-Meter when driving the X2010. Without a G-suit, the driver would be dead after half a lap. Oh, and there are no G-Suits that can work against lateral G-forces. Totally realistic, that. If we're talking about theory, why not add other vehicles that are possible in theory?

Only cost and time is stopping it being made. I rather PD continue doing this as it gives it's brand a bigger recognition in the actual automotive industry such as with the GTR making the display and also designing aerodynamic parts for some cars. GT Academy also helps with this and is the only game that gives some people the chance to become a real racing driver.

And all of that makes the game itself better in what way? Exactly. None.

GT5 does simulate electric, hybrid and fan cars, does any other car game do that? I think it is quite innovating as far as car games go if it is the first one to simulate this in a commercial game.

Yeah, now that is truly innovative

 

[t.o.]

No I wouldn't.

I would say I have changed the colour.
Livery to me represents logos, emblems and multitude of colours.

Even Kaz doesn't agree with you when he said that a livery editor may come in the future. He never said we already have one.

I think you need to get your definition of 'livery' sorted.

You can't do that in GT. Or have you been able to change a sponsor for antoher?

Guys I'm telling you forget about debating with this guy. He will just hammer illogical non-sense to death and never acknowledge reality. I swear to you guys you're wasting your time. I already been through it with him. It's better to just ignore him. Replying to him is the TRUE definition of feeding the trolls.