Economy system is a piece of ****!

[Sander 001]

It does not take a effort achieve them, some players just want the 20 million dollar cars instantly and it does not happen like that. You have to earn them by winning credits, and this is a game to play over time and not in 5 minutes.

Do you realize you present a disingenuous argument or are you trolling unintentionally?

 

[Humphrey]

The title shouldn't be "Economy system is a piece of ****", it should be "The economy system doesn't work for me because I want 20 million dollar cars instantly"

To put this into context, I was in a Minis only lobby last night, one race was 20x laps of Suzuka East, these lobbies (this lobby a clean one, but dirty is hilarious) a really hard fought battle, the lead changing constantly throughout the race...

I came 3rd and scored Cr23,000.....!

Compare racing against AI who you can blow away and forget (so long as there's no La Ferrari), or nudge off without repercussions, with battling against humans with emotions, similar skill, variation, challenging behaviours, slipstreaming! and I've 'earnt' 5% of what I would have at Blue Moon grinding....

Unbalanced... oh but after 230 odd days logged on, I've got 14m in the bank... and nothing in my garage more expensive than my GT40!

I don't want things immediately... but let's get a little perspective.

 

[FoRiZon]

He may not be right but he may not be wrong. Go earn the credits. However you want to. Do races. Wherever. But complaining about it just simply… makes one a complainer.

These are the cards we were dealt.

My complain would be simple:

1. Up the Sport Mode pay so it be a better grind than BMB. You'll get interesting things going on Online, be the driver or the odd car livery. Compared to the old, tedious "Oval grind" ways. GT6 ironically did better with the quick match than GTSport we got now.

2. If the 20mil cars cannot be lowered in price, atleast release the all new 20 mil car that I would consider grinding for. Right now all of cars are imports from GT5-6, one of which even upped the price by 3.5 times the price. If PD releases Premium Chapparal 2J I would go for it. Right now there's basically no motivation to do so.

 

[rono_thomas]

He may not be right but he may not be wrong. Go earn the credits. However you want to. Do races. Wherever. But complaining about it just simply… makes one a complainer.

These are the cards we were dealt.

True.

He may not be right but he may not be wrong.

His trolling posts are what makes it particularly galling, after all its because of his rubber banding that his opinion has changed,

Really the two 20 million cars are so ridiculous in price , and them 2 should have been around 10 million credits each, would have been a lot better for the casual players as well.

If PD lower the two 20 million credits cars to 7.5 million each, l think everybody will be .

GT games are always going to make you do a bit of grinding, and there is nothing wrong doing that. The only problem is having cars in a game that is worth 20 million credits, now that is a bit stupid.

I hope we don't get to many cars that worth 20 million credits, unless PD gives us a 50 million credit limit.

 

[MatskiMonk]

I never said the customer was always right. What I said was that there's probably a reason the idiom isn't about the company always being right. The last year-and-a-bit kind of tells a story about that.

Hows about we just agree that no one group of people is always right.

We're taking this into the real world, are we?

Alright, let's go along with that. Let's add all the layers back on top and make it a question not about whether it sells any copies at all, but about whether or not it sells enough to break even. What would happen to Gran Turismo if it doesn't sell enough copies to be profitable for Sony?

What I'm saying is that, regardless of how one can try to spin it, a company lives and dies from its customers. There's a reason companies take social media :censored:storms seriously. They know how damaging it can be to them.

Ultimately, if people doesn't buy what you're selling, it's time to look at your options, be it to embrace the niche that's left behind (with the required budget cuts), try to win old or new customers, or close up shop.

I guess we can re-visit this when PD goes out of business.

Would I be interested in that happening? Definitely. If I can get word from as high up the ladder as possible that they always intended to lock the 20-million cars behind an excessive grind wall and that it won't change in the future, I'll know for certain that it's time to abandon ship.

Or you could just assess if the game is delivering the experience you'd like for yourself and stop playing if/when you don't feel it is. You don't need to wait for a tweet from upon high.

As will anyone else who's opposed to the idea of games becoming a second job. Then we'll see if the franchise can live off of who's left. And if not, maybe - just maybe - the company wasn't always right.

Treating the game as second job is choice. You are not required to required to get the 20 million credit cards, and you are not required to grind to do it if you've decided you want them.

To put this into context, I was in a Minis only lobby last night, one race was 20x laps of Suzuka East, these lobbies (this lobby a clean one, but dirty is hilarious) a really hard fought battle, the lead changing constantly throughout the race...

I came 3rd and scored Cr23,000.....!

Compare racing against AI who you can blow away and forget (so long as there's no La Ferrari), or nudge off without repercussions, with battling against humans with emotions, similar skill, variation, challenging behaviours, slipstreaming! and I've 'earnt' 5% of what I would have at Blue Moon grinding....

Out of interest, how long did the race take?

For interest, there's 89 races in GT League that pay less than that for 3rd place, and 78 races that pay the same or more. You'd have to complete the Sunday Cup Suzuka East race 12 times (36 laps), or the Beetle & Sambabus festa 5 times (15 laps), finishing 3rd in all cases in order to beat 23,000 Cr. total pay out. These are the only two GTL races at Suzuka East. These may or may not be ultimately representative, but I think it's fair to compare to other realistic scenarios instead of just comparing to the META every time.

 

[rallymorten]

Or you could just assess if the game is delivering the experience you'd like for yourself and stop playing if/when you don't feel it is. You don't need to wait for a tweet from upon high.

..and where exactly did I say that wasn't a possibility regardless of whether or not they make a statement on it? Sure, I can make an assessment myself, and the assessment I (and, judging by this thread, a not insignificant amount of others) have made is that the effort/reward ratio is way out of whack. Your assessment may be different - that's fine. But that doesn't change the assessment of others.

And, to be fair, you presented a specific scenario in which Kaz makes a public statement that the game is in the intended state, so.. wait, how's that a fault on me for providing an answer to that scenario?

You are not required to required to get the 20 million credit cards

So they've put them in just so they can look pretty in the dealerships? Completely out of reasonable reach for a significant number of players for exactly what good reason?

you are not required to grind to do it if you've decided you want them.

Sure, I could stop doing the grind that makes it "only" 10 hours to get one and instead delay the acquisition to some more-or-less hypothetical point in the future.

Sure, I could rely on the RNG that is the Daily Lootbox Workout one day deciding to be kind and have it show up - only to skip it for the Roadster next to it.

Plenty of alternatives for anyone interested in getting the car sometime this millenia but not interested in losing their sanity.


What's happening in this thread is that people are calling attention to what they perceive as a problem. Whether intended or not, frankly, is irrelevant - it's something people believe the game would be better off without. Nobody can tell for certain if Polyphony decide this is worth an extra look into, but - and this is just to be the biggest cliché I can possibly be - if the players don't try, they most certainly won't have an influence on the development of this or any future game.

So tell me again why people shouldn't provide input - the input in this case being that locking cars behind - at best - ten hours of "saving up" is a bad idea?

 

[Tired Tyres]

Treating the game as second job is choice. You are not required to required to get the 20 million credit cards, and you are not required to grind to do it if you've decided you want them.

You are required to use one of these cars to complete a specific event.

 

[TonyJZX]

You are required to use one of these cars to complete a specific event.

The atttitude that these people have is that your are not required to complete events so you can ignore these if you cant get the cars.

 

[MatskiMonk]

You are required to use one of these cars to complete a specific event.

Hmmm... You are not re...

wait...

The attitude that these people have is that your are not required to complete events so you can ignore these if you cant get the cars.

...that.

how's that a fault on me for providing an answer to that scenario?

Was I trying to assign blame? It was just a suggestion.

So they've put them in just so they can look pretty in the dealerships? Completely out of reasonable reach for a significant number of players for exactly what good reason?

Potential long term personal objective for players, I'd imagine. In any case, that still doesn't make them a requirement.

Sure, I could stop doing the grind that makes it "only" 10 hours to get one and instead delay the acquisition to some more-or-less hypothetical point in the future.

Sure, I could rely on the RNG that is the Daily Lootbox Workout one day deciding to be kind and have it show up - only to skip it for the Roadster next to it.

Plenty of alternatives for anyone interested in getting the car sometime this millenia but not interested in losing their sanity.

Yeah, so.. a choice to get the cars then, and a choice to grind to do it.

If you had to have one to stand a chance of getting to the FIA finals, I'd understand and agree with some of the complaints. As it stands you don't, you get 0% game completion, 0 PSN trophies and 0 added to any of your public stats, they unlock nothing further.

So tell me again why people shouldn't provide input - the input in this case being that locking cars behind - at best - ten hours of "saving up" is a bad idea?

Another superfluous question for the sake of argument. I've not said that people shouldn't provide input, I have indicated that I accept and/or respect PD choosing to ignore it, if they do so, because - at this stage - the most likely scenario is that they want these cars to be difficult to obtain, but have reasonably chosen not to penalise players who do not obtain them.

But, complain away, maybe they'll change it, maybe they won't, maybe they're just waiting for the participation rate to drop to a certain amount before they start throwing credits at us, maybe they're going to add a bunch more 20 mill cars... who knows.

 

[Tired Tyres]

Hmmm... You are not re...

wait...



...that.




Was I trying to assign blame? It was just a suggestion.



Potential long term personal objective for players, I'd imagine. In any case, that still doesn't make them a requirement.




Yeah, so.. a choice to get the cars then, and a choice to grind to do it.

If you had to have one to stand a chance of getting to the FIA finals, I'd understand and agree with some of the complaints. As it stands you don't, you get 0% game completion, 0 PSN trophies and 0 added to any of your public stats, they unlock nothing further.



Another superfluous question for the sake of argument. I've not said that people shouldn't provide input, I have indicated that I accept and/or respect PD choosing to ignore it, if they do so, because - at this stage - the most likely scenario is that they want these cars to be difficult to obtain, but have reasonably chosen not to penalise players who do not obtain them.

But, complain away, maybe they'll change it, maybe they won't, maybe they're just waiting for the participation rate to drop to a certain amount before they start throwing credits at us, maybe they're going to add a bunch more 20 mill cars... who knows.

You are making it really hard to reply to specific things in your post via my android phone.

If you wish to play the game by completing all the available events would you care to explain how you can achieve this without the relevant car?

 

[MatskiMonk]

If you wish to play the game by completing all the available events would you care to explain how you can achieve this without the relevant car?

Obviously you can't. But...

If you wish

Sounds pretty optional to me!

 

[Tired Tyres]

Obviously you can't. But...



Sounds pretty optional to me!

So you're saying that if I load the game and decide I want to do a certain race I shouldn't be able to do it then?

 

[MatskiMonk]

So you're saying that if I load the game and decide I want to do a certain race I shouldn't be able to do it then?

If you can't currently meet the entry requirements, then pretty much no, obviously. It would be unfortunate if someone was entirely new to the franchise and hadn't realised that this would be the case. If you're setting the bar at being able to have & do everything within a couple of clicks of loading the game then Gran Turismo would not be the franchise to buy into.

 

[Tired Tyres]

If you can't currently meet the entry requirements, then pretty much no, obviously. It would be unfortunate if someone was entirely new to the franchise and hadn't realised that this would be the case. If you're setting the bar at being able to have & do everything within a couple of clicks of loading the game then Gran Turismo would not be the franchise to buy into.

Now look at GT, GT2, GT3 and GT4 and keep a straight face when defending GTS. Do you seriously think there's a single car in any of those games I wouldn't have access to 100 plus days into ownimg them?

The GTS economy is broken. Bad game loop design is bad game loop design. I am not asking for instant access to anything. I'm asking for reasonable access to what I want via a series I have to win. That doesn't strike me as wanting everything in 5 minutes.

 

[PSN:And-War]

Because this is GT Planet, one of the most toxic communities out there. And I thought the CoD community was bad...

yes we need more races that give up 1mill so we can buy the expensive cars n not grind blue moon bay in N300 car pfff

 

[wolf4263]

Ferrari 330 P4 1967 - 20,000,000 Cr.
Jaguar XJ13 1966 - 20,000,000 Cr.
Ferrari 250 GTO CN.3729GT 1962 - 20,000,000 Cr.
Ford MARK IV RACE CAR 1967 - 20,000,000 Cr.
Lamborghini MIURA P400 BERTONE PROTOTYPE CN.0706 1967 - 15,000,000 Cr.
Shelby COBRA DAYTONA COUPE 1964 - 15,000,000 Cr.
Alfa Romeo Giulia TZ2 Carrozzata da Zagato CN.AR750106 1965 - 10,000,000 Cr.

These are 7 of the most expensive cars currently in GT Sport for a total of 120,000,000 Cr. You have to grind Blue Moon Bay at a maximum clean race payout of 375,000 Cr. for a total of 320 times, which at approximately 12mins per race that's a total grinding time of 64 hours.

Where's the rubber band.

 

[MatskiMonk]

Now look at GT, GT2, GT3 and GT4 and keep a straight face when defending GTS. Do you seriously think there's a single car in any of those games I wouldn't have access to 100 plus days into ownimg them?

I don't know, maybe, maybe not.. it depends on how you're playing the game, how much and if you were any good or not - I suspect the answer you want to hear is something like - if you grind the META once a day for 100 days you could, and in GTS you can't... or something like that (*I have no idea if that is true or not). But what would that prove? According to the numbers Wolf just posted you get access to everything within about two weeks if you really really really liked Blue Moon Bay - conversely, if you spent 10,000 hours racing in GT Hi-Fi mode because you liked higher frame rates you probably wouldn't have done.

 

[MMX]

I don't think the economy system is broken, but it's definitely not ideal for a quick turn around. I've already posted my experience in dealing with these expensive cars. I bought a 15 mill car, and currently have enough to buy another, but just a few more days of my bare minimum racing routine, will be able to buy a 20 mill, if I choose to.

Here's the post I made yesterday....

Not sure why I keep checking this thread, it is exhausting to read. To contribute something, I'll repeat what I posted in the 20 mill thread...

I've made a little over 13 million credits since I bought the Daytona on Sept. 12th, doing solely 2 races everyday at Le Sarthe Nostalgia, and a couple hours of lobby racing on Tuesday nights.

Is it ideal? Certainly not, but considering the small amount of time I've spent racing, I think it's a pretty quick return in the investment. I'm less than 2 million away from paying for the Daytona I bought roughly 6 weeks ago, just doing 33 miles a day.

I should also point out, when I bought the Daytona, I had 20 million credits, and had been making "smaller" purchases to keep me off the limit. Decided to make a lot of room, and dropped the 15 mill on the Daytona. I'm at just over 18 million credits now, doing the minimum amount of racing.

People act like these cars are unobtainable without mindless grinding, and it's simply not true. Will it take a long time to get them? For sure, but it's doable, without a major commitment.

 

[simsimsheree]

It's not the time grinding that is bad design. x amount of effort to achieve y is fine. The thing that grinds my gears is that it is a VERY restrictive subset of x that achieves y. x amount of effort at anything but a couple of events (one of which needs the y car in the first place!) does NOT equal y.

That's bad game design, and bad math.

 

[kemmac]

Its really very foolish that cant sell car isnt purchase. They are completely nitwit and control our choices.

 

[coryclifford]

15 minutes in Gr 1 at Fuji just got me 330k...

In a Sauber Benz.

 

[rono_thomas]

17 minutes in Gr1 at le Mans has got me 102k... (Thats a win)

 

[jjaisli]

It's kind of funny, so many years later, to see the same arguments here on GTP. I remember these same discussions and same opinions, what, 7-8 years ago?

Having started playing Gran Turismo (in earnest) with Prologue, along with a number of other PS3 sims, I finally gave up after GT6 and moved onto PC sims and did about 3 years in iRacing. It's more of what I was looking for in terms of realism. And more of what I wanted in terms of online competition. I wasn't much of a collector, or even a gamer, outside of racing games. And I preferred iRacing's rather straight forward, purchase (rental?) of content instead of paying for it and then 'earning' it in some bizarre fictitious economy by racing annoying bots or setting your B-spec drivers to task for in-game credits. I never quite understood the concept. And I still don't. But I always enjoyed the simcaid nature of GT and I always found the visuals stunning. It was fun in it's own way.

In fact, I openly admit that I took full advantage of early GT5 "birthday" glitching to quickly earn the cars I wanted to race online in private lobbies with a select group of like minded friends: i.e. a 30 lap race around La Sarthe in Ferrari P4s or a 10 lapper of the Nurburgring in the Alfa TZ2 . I felt then, and I feel now, that I paid the for the game and it doesn't make sense to jump through hoops to gain access to the content I already paid for. And I have no regrets. Now that you HAVE the option to buy some cars from the PSN store, it puts things into different perspective. But that's another discussion.

Back in 2013 I began doing real life track events, and moved on from entry level HPDE to competitive TT. I'm not Fernando Alonso by any stretch but I like to think I'm not the slowest guy out there either. That's really me in the avatar. From that moment, the sim-bug left me. It's actually been years since I even bothered. It really doesn't compare to the real thing. Even iRacing falls hopelessly short in some ways. A long time ago now, my wife had pre-ordered GT Sport for me--I think it's introduction was delayed more than once? After about a year of sitting on the shelf, I finally opened it and installed it (and updated it) and played it for the first time about a week ago. Like most things GT related, it seems two steps forward, one step back.

But my feeling is this, GT Sport is not a typical GT game. Or at least, from what I remember, it wasn't billed as a true continuation in the series (a.k.a. GT7) and more of an off shoot, geared more to racing fans and less toward general car enthusiasts. But I don't think that's really what we got. I was kind of expecting and maybe hoping for something more like Assetto Corsa with all real world tracks and (mostly) dedicated race cars and access to all the content. I don't mind a few license tests before getting online. But having to grind for credits and buy cars? Are you KIDDING me? Oh no, not for me. And frankly, with one or two exception, I'm not a fan of PD's own tracks. I wish they had saved them for GT7.

I admit, it's just not my thing. But I'm probably older than most of you. I work full time. I run my own business. I work 60+ hours a week on average. And I have a family of my own. And a father in failing health who also needs a lot of attention. So for me, the "grinding" for credits to buy cars is more of a chore. It's less a case of not enjoying it, and more a case of not having the time for it. Although honestly, if the AI drove like this in the real world, they'd either be black flagged or assaulted back in the paddock. So in that sense, running Like The Wind, or really most of the events, over and over again, and working your way from the back to the front in X amount of laps, has little to do with real racing and everything to do with 'gaming'. You're just a rat on a wheel. And as I said, I can't see the point.

So is it broken? For me it is. But then, I'm not your typical GT player. I've always looked at it more of a simulation and less of a game. And i don't know any flying sims that force you to fly in circles to earn credits to buy more aircraft. But I guess I had just hoped that GT Sport would be a bit different. And for me, it's not. It's all of the good and all of the bad we've always known.

 

[CBH]

The GTS economy is broken. Bad game loop design is bad game loop design. I am not asking for instant access to anything. I'm asking for reasonable access to what I want via a series I have to win. That doesn't strike me as wanting everything in 5 minutes.

The GTS economy is not broken because it is very healthy. What is wrong with grinding or rubber banding in this game, nothing is wrong by doing what I have just said. It is really sad to see some players complain that they want better payouts so they can get things a lot quicker
This is a game you know and you got to play the game over time, and if you want the expensive cars in the game you have to earn them by doing some grinding or rubber banding or do what ever you like to do, but you are going to get there.

A few months when I got all the cars in the game and at the time and I also got to level 50. I just sat down and I had a cold beer and said, boy what a grind but I enjoyed that what I achieved. Whether it is grinding or rubber banding and who gives a dam on what you do, you are going to get there . These 7 expensive cars I got them mainly through grinding and rubber banding, and that is ok to do that and it took me some time but I got there. I wanted them 7 cars but I did not have to do the grind or rubber banding but I did, but it is up to you on what you want to do.

The credit payouts are very good in this game, with the amount of cars that we have got. So if you are starting this game in the last couple of month you are going to have a problem, if you want all of the cars in the game, and coming on this forum complaining about PD needs to increased the credit payouts is wrong.
If there is an update that comes with cars that cost 20 million credits, it does not take long to grind or rubber banding to get one.

You need to grind to win credits and if you don't grind, well the credits are not going to come to you are they, and that is kind of stupid but that what some players want in this game.

 

[VeeDoubleU]

You need to grind to win credits.

Finally we agree. If only you used more than 2 brain cells to maybe realise that needing to grind shows the economy system isn't perfect. Rubber banding, and your reliance of it, also shows the economy system isn't perfect.

 

[ScottPuss20]

Why wasn't grinding an issue in the past?

 

[VeeDoubleU]

Why wasn't grinding an issue in the past?

Well, as mentioned somewhere in this thread, the highest payout rates per game, compared to the highest car cost, were all higher in other games. So GTS is the slowest in terms of credit payouts. And even if you take into account car upgrades in other games, you also had the ability to sell gifted cars in other games, which generally cancel out. Also, GTPlanet and other forums weren't as big back then, so you wouldn't hear complaints as much.

Once more, in other GT Games, you would often win good cars through skill and achievement, with higher achievements being rewarded with rarer or even unique cars. For example, in GT3, getting 1st place in all Arcade Time Trials nets you the unique Panoz, which is cool. So it wasn't purely just credit grinds, as there was that extra genuine sense of achievement for getting all golds on tough license tests and then winning a cool car for it, for example.

GTS just gives you random daily cars, and random cars for easy single player missions/challenges. Neither of which give a genuine sense of achievement. The closest is the Nissan GTR Safety Car which I believe you get for Golding all Driving School missions. Which is cool

 

[rono_thomas]

The GTS economy is not broken because it is very healthy. What is wrong with grinding or rubber banding in this game, nothing is wrong by doing what I have just said. It is really sad to see some players complain that they want better payouts so they can get things a lot quicker
This is a game you know and you got to play the game over time, and if you want the expensive cars in the game you have to earn them by doing some grinding or rubber banding or do what ever you like to do, but you are going to get there.

A few months when I got all the cars in the game and at the time and I also got to level 50. I just sat down and I had a cold beer and said, boy what a grind but I enjoyed that what I achieved. Whether it is grinding or rubber banding and who gives a dam on what you do, you are going to get there . These 7 expensive cars I got them mainly through grinding and rubber banding, and that is ok to do that and it took me some time but I got there. I wanted them 7 cars but I did not have to do the grind or rubber banding but I did, but it is up to you on what you want to do.

The credit payouts are very good in this game, with the amount of cars that we have got. So if you are starting this game in the last couple of month you are going to have a problem, if you want all of the cars in the game, and coming on this forum complaining about PD needs to increased the credit payouts is wrong.
If there is an update that comes with cars that cost 20 million credits, it does not take long to grind or rubber banding to get one.

You need to grind to win credits and if you don't grind, well the credits are not going to come to you are they, and that is kind of stupid but that what some players want in this game.

If I did not do the reversing glitch I would not have bothered to get to level 50

Start being truthful man. You used the reverse glitch to buy all the cars and since then have rubber banded to acquire everything else.

 

[ARTAsean]

The error in your guys' rationale is that GT5 and GT6 had 10 times as many cars as GT Sport.

GT5/6 provided more credits per minute spent grinding. However, the amount of money required to own all the cars - or even the lions share of them - is a much bigger vacuum than GT Sport's.

Taking this into account, this basically boils down to the "but I want it now" mentality that is representative of to modern gamers

 

[VeeDoubleU]

Taking this into account, this basically boils down to the "but I want it now" mentality that is representative of to modern gamers

No. That just isn't the case and clearly shows you haven't read much of what people have said.

People want a rewarding experience, where achievements are rewarded suitably, with unique and cool cars being gifted for genuine achievements.
However in GTS, challenges are too easy, the most challenging mode has some of the lowest payouts, you get random cars for practically nothing each day etc
And finally, in no way is grinding, either through rubber banding or things like Blue Moon Bay race, a rewarding experience.