Economy system is a piece of ****!

[RichiPuppy]

Exactly... Once PD decided that this game was a complete break from previous GT titles, that's IT..!

It should be a complete break from previous games. PD decided to join AC and PC2 and most other serious sim titles in making the focus of this game racing, not Pokemon 'Gotta get them all' collection games. No used car dealership. Just racing.

In that context, unicorn cars are an anathema. AC and PC2 are strictly racing focused titles. Hence, no locked cars or tracks.

If PD wanted to validate their game while retaining the unicorn car concept, the acquisition of that unicorn should come from clean racing. Against humans, not the acknowledged worst, easiest to beat AI on the planet. How would the player base feel about the credits being biased to consecutive online 'Clean Races'?

I can hear the howling now!

That would be the stupidest thing ever to me, being that internet fast enough to game is completely unavailable where I live.

 

[MMX]

Curious as to what you do with the game, then?

You do realize that most race drivers don't own their race car? At the professional level, team owners hire them to race. If hired to drive it, it matters not whether it's a Fiat500 or an XJ-13. The achievement for drivers is winning the race.

I spend all my time in the livery editor, because that's what I enjoy, with a little racing sprinkled in.

Not sure what a real race car driver has to do with me. I'm just a guy playing a game, the way I like, and not going to condemn anybody for the way they choose to.

 

[Veinz]

You know why Sport Mode players want larger credit payouts, is because they want to do the same race over and over, and get plenty of credits to get the most expensive cars a lot quicker.
The game economy is very good and there is no need to have bigger payouts, for the amount of cars in the game. The 7 of the most expensive cars are not hard to get, and you do not have to get them straight away but some players do want them now. This is a game to play over time and not in a few days.

At least the Sport Mode races change periodically unlike doing the same GT League races over and over.

The economy is a bit trash, I find it strange that I only get 96k or whatever for doing race c against other players that are actually good, meanwhile the game rewards racing against laughably slow AIs around Blue Moon for just as much, if not more depending on what car you’re using.

 

[simsimsheree]

I spend all my time in the livery editor, because that's what I enjoy, with a little racing sprinkled in.

Not sure what a real race car driver has to do with me. I'm just a guy playing a game, the way I like, and not going to condemn anybody for the way they choose to.

'Not condemning anyone for the way they choose to play' would also include not condemning anyone for wanting all the cars available at the git-go...

I am sure, if all the cars were available from the start, you could easily make yourself grind for days before you allowed yourself the privilege of taking it out. And someone that didn't want to grind could take it out immediately.

Now THAT is being able to play the game any way you choose to!

 

[CBH]

They should start awarding cars for completing events now. They can award the halo cars for endurance races. As long as they keep adding cars they can keep adding events to win them.

I think PD will do that, if they release a GT7 in a few years time. This is GTS and the all the credit payouts have been set for the game. With more tracks coming in the game and cars as well, who knows what we can expect with the credit payout for the up coming events.
At the moment the credits payouts are fine, with the amount of cars that we have in the game. I still can not understand why some players want bigger credit payouts for, this game has not got 1000 cars ok it has a few expensive cars but nothing to worry about, and there is no need to get every car in the game, and it is up to you on what you buy.
As I been saying all along. It is not the game fault it is the player who plays that game, and want everything in 5 minutes with bigger credits payout and that is crazy.

 

[simsimsheree]

I think PD will do that, if they release a GT7 in a few years time. This is GTS and the all the credit payouts have been set for the game. With more tracks coming in the game and cars as well, who knows what we can expect with the credit payout for the up coming events.
At the moment the credits payouts are fine, with the amount of cars that we have in the game. I still can not understand why some players want bigger credit payouts for, this game has not got 1000 cars ok it has a few expensive cars but nothing to worry about, and there is no need to get every car in the game, and it is up to you on what you buy.
As I been saying all along. It is not the game fault it is the player who plays that game, and want everything in 5 minutes with bigger credits payout and that is crazy.

Exaggeration hardly helps you make your point. Other than people like myself that want no credit system at all and a sandbox approach to racing, who has asked for a five minute 20M race? Nobody, that's who!

Personally, I am content if achieving the 20M cr. for a unicorn takes days of play. The point you miss is that the choice of events that achieves that level of reward is tiny and consequently boring as hell. I, and I think most players here would be content if the level of time taken to get to the 20M mark were spread out over a far wider, far more interesting choice of events. But grinding BMB for days is poor game design, plain and simple. Payouts should increase in other races to the point that you don't HAVE to grind just one or two events. Equal effort should equate to equal reward. If the payout ratio for BMB is 300k for 15min or so, why not 300k for ANY 15min or so? At least at that challenge level...

There's the problem in a nutshell. Obviously, PD didn't anticipate that an XBow, tuned up, could achieve that level of payment. If you enter the BMB race with one of the cars PD choose for it, your payment is radically smaller. The entire economy is even worse than stated. Imagine if the BMB grind were thwarted (restricted to the same group of cars PD chooses, for instance) or rubberbanding were detectable and banned? A 20M car in that environment would be even more ridiculous.

Trying to excuse a ridiculous economy by saying "there is no need to get every car in the game" is absurd. Might as well say you only need ONE car in the game.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

"Is representative of modern gamers" is not a subjective statement. It absolutely states that modern gamers have an "'I want it now' mentality". That this thread is evidence of that is the only part that he could've meant subjectively.

Yes it is, is a subjective view of his. It's pretty straightforward constuctivism based on his personal views and experience, thus how you expect that to quantify into a scientific or provable source is moot. What it states is he thinks that gamer's have this mentality of everything up front, now there are ways he could go about proving this without it being subjective, like first day DLC transactions, pre-order releases/boosts, and micro transactions over time. But that would be objective, and I don't see how you can see his views as objective since they're not.

 

[simsimsheree]

I think part of it is the closer and closer you get to the real life sport, the further and further away we should distance ourselves from strictly 'gaming' mindsets.

Should we have to grind for weeks to wear the shirt of a soccer player we can go to the store and buy today? Should we have to grind for weeks to use a certain type of golf club our sponsor would provide if we were a pro?

Should we have to grind for weeks to sit in a car that a race team (not the driver) would own..? Or, if a certain level of effort and achievement is needed to reach that level of the sport, would it ever be doing mindless laps around the same oval track in a car ridiculously faster than the competition?

 

[Woodybobs]

Yes it is, is a subjective view of his. It's pretty straightforward constuctivism based on his personal views and experience, thus how you expect that to quantify into a scientific or provable source is moot. What it states is he thinks that gamer's have this mentality of everything up front, now there are ways he could go about proving this without it being subjective, like first day DLC transactions, pre-order releases/boosts, and micro transactions over time. But that would be objective, and I don't see how you can see his views as objective since they're not.

Read it again. What he states is that modern gamers have an "'I want it now' mentality". Where are the statistics for that statement? You added the "he thinks" part.

 

[Sander 001]

Fortunately for me, GTS is not like PC2 or AC. AC appears to be too sim, and I never gave PC2 a glance after not liking the first one.

I actually didn't care for having access to all the cars from the get go. Left me nothing to shoot for, plus it gave the feeling of rental cars, and no ownership. Probably sounds stupid to a lot of people, but that was my take on it.

As I've stated in here already. I don't really mind the way GTS is now. I don't have to have every car, I bought the last one to stay off the credit limit, and I do the minimum amount of racing.

I feel like there’s actually more to shoot for in PC2 because you work your way through a motorsport career from the beginning like karts to F1 or LMP1.

The sense of accomplishment is real because mastering each discipline is often a real challenge. Whereas randomly hopping from one to the other back&forth like GT. Or grinding for a car.

 

[FoRiZon]

At least the Sport Mode races change periodically unlike doing the same GT League races over and over.

Not only that but even if the races is exactly the same, atleast you'll encounter opponents whose driving style is "interesting" or the cars has interesting liveries. It felt like a new experience all over again for each races.

Spoiler: Other genre examples

For other examples, PUBG is still widely played even if it has literally 3 maps (1 of which is hated much it got far less plays). Most of CS GO players only plays "Dust 2" map. And there's Fortnite, only 1 maps.

 

[Sander 001]

The error in your guys' rationale is that GT5 and GT6 had 10 times as many cars as GT Sport.

GT5/6 provided more credits per minute spent grinding. However, the amount of money required to own all the cars - or even the lions share of them - is a much bigger vacuum than GT Sport's.

Taking this into account, this basically boils down to the "but I want it now" mentality that is representative of to modern gamers

GT5/6 had more content and variety and different ways to earn credits so it wasn’t as grinding since you didn’t repeat events nearly as much.

And since there’s much less to do in GT Sport every car you don’t have access to is felt much more severely.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Read it again. What he states is that modern gamers have an "'I want it now' mentality". Where are the statistics for that statement? You added the "he thinks" part.

He never stated it as a fact, if he'd said "That all gamers today want everything upfront because of a now mentality" then that would be objective. You're confusing subjective with objective that is all I'm saying. I don't see anything that invokes a need for stats, or simply can't be deconstructed with simple counter logic. This is turning into semantics so let's move on shall we?

 

[CBH]

I think part of it is the closer and closer you get to the real life sport, the further and further away we should distance ourselves from strictly 'gaming' mindsets.

Should we have to grind for weeks to wear the shirt of a soccer player we can go to the store and buy today? Should we have to grind for weeks to use a certain type of golf club our sponsor would provide if we were a pro?

Should we have to grind for weeks to sit in a car that a race team (not the driver) would own..? Or, if a certain level of effort and achievement is needed to reach that level of the sport, would it ever be doing mindless laps around the same oval track in a car ridiculously faster than the competition?

If you don't grind credits, how and the hell are you going to get the cars that you want, especially the expensive few cars that we have in the game.
In GT6 I think we had good credit payouts for Seasonal and Quick Matches events, because we had around 1200 cars in the game, and some players still complained about that they had to grind. So even if PD did increased with bigger payouts, you will still get players still complain on this forum about grinding in GTS.
If you don't like grinding in GTS, well you are not going to get what you want are you. Remember this is a game to play over time and to earn credits, and to buy what you want like cars. So there is no rush to grind like mad in GTS, even if you may spend a few hours a day for several weeks playing this game, and getting the expensive car that you want, so what it it takes a long time.

 

[VeeDoubleU]

The credit payouts are very good across the board 👍, you do not need to grind like hell to get what you want.

If you don't grind credits, how and the hell are you going to get the cars that you want, especially the expensive few cars that we have in the game.

 

[rono_thomas]

Its sadly pointless. But as sure as Daily Races are Daily races, ford will be along later to remind us how the credit system is not broken because glitches are not needed, or rubber bands and everything is equal.

And its only because we want it now, gimme now.

 

[MMX]

I feel like there’s actually more to shoot for in PC2 because you work your way through a motorsport career from the beginning like karts to F1 or LMP1.

The sense of accomplishment is real because mastering each discipline is often a real challenge. Whereas randomly hopping from one to the other back&forth like GT. Or grinding for a car.

I'm glad it works for you, but I didn't care for it. I haven't done a single bit of grinding in GTS, yet own two of the high credits cars(won one), and have enough credits to buy another, just doing the daily workout.

 

[rono_thomas]

I'm glad it works for you, but I didn't care for it. I haven't done a single bit of grinding in GTS, yet own two of the high credits cars(won one), and have enough credits to buy another, just doing the daily workout.

Daily work out giving you many credits?

 

[MMX]

Daily work out giving you many credits?

Lately I've been running the Daytona at Le Sarthe nostalgia race. Two times gets the mileage required, and without the clean race bonus, still pays 320k. Then I can hop into the livery editor and do what I enjoy the most. If it wasn't for the LE, I probably would have quit playing already, just checking on it when updates drop.

I'm sure my choice of DW race will get criticized, but since I don't do much racing, why wouldn't I pick a race that pays well. I love the car, and that track has always been a favorite of mine. When I was banging the 20 million limit, before these races were added, I was doing custom races at various places using slower cars against faster cars. Again maximizing payout, since I do so little racing. Credits have not been an issue, in fact before I bought the Daytona I was forced to spend them, to keep from losing them. All while just doing the daily workout.

 

[Woodybobs]

He never stated it as a fact,

that is representative of to modern gamers

He has stated it as a fact. That it should be inferred that he meant it as his opinion is the point you're making.

I don't see anything that invokes a need for stats, or simply can't be deconstructed with simple counter logic.

I don't think there are stats or studies available to support his statement. I find it's best to to give someone a chance to establish their position before launching into counter arguments. It's entirely possible that he has information that I don't. His answer may well have changed my position on the matter.

You're confusing subjective with objective that is all I'm saying.

In this case that's not true.

like first day DLC transactions, pre-order releases/boosts, and micro transactions over time. But that would be objective,

Those would be correlative. They could be representative of new tech providing developers new ways of enhancing their games and maximising profits, for example. In a larger study of gamers habits and mentalities they could be used to enhance the case that modern gamers have an I want it now mentality. We would also have to establish that this mentality is exclusive to modern gamers. If it exists, it may well always have. The limiting factor may have been the tech of the time.

For generations the opinions, lifestyle choices, and moral compass, of younger generations have been criticised (often without any reason) by the older ones. If one is going to post such generalisations publicly, one should come with evidence. He may as well have said the Irish are dirty drivers, or gingers have fiery tempers.

You're confusing subjective with objective that is all I'm saying.

let's move on shall we?

You've repeated your original argument and then suggested we move on. If I countered in the first place, why would I now not?

Basically, we're arguing about how the statement was phrased. I understand the point you're making and it is valid. I knew OP was, most likely, stating his opinion, but he has phrased it as a fact. I gave him a chance to clarify before offering my own opinion.

We have had an online discussion without either (or both) of us resorting to insults or aggressive point scoring, so in a sense we're both winners.

 

[rallymorten]

So here's an idea I've got that's sure to more-than-mildly-annoy at least three people:

What if PD were to implement a (and this is a highly creative title, so bear that in mind) "Payout Multiplier"? You know, the sort of thing that used to be available as a cheat code but is now locked behind an exploitative paywall (and yes, that's a deliberate dig at a previous topic in this thread)? The sort of thing where you'd go into the Options menu, click a button to enable it for the first time and then adjust a slider 'till your heart's content? The sort of slider that ranges from "I'm not getting the amount of pride and accomplishment I want out of my playing, lower the payouts to 10% of what they are now" to "I really don't give a damn about the counterarguments, I'm only here to have fun, add an extra 0 to the back of the payouts"?

There would be a caveat to this. Enabling the option would remove the ability to sell cars outright because exploits, but considering you can already only sell cars you've bought with credits, that's not really a loss, is it?

In case you're wondering if there's an incentive to *not* enable that option and instead play it "like the developer intended" and definitely not rubberband away, then yes, there is. You get a little gold star next to your name and the ability to limit lobby access to only other people who aren't "filthy casuals" who "want everything in five minutes".

There'd still be a disparity between online and offline payouts when put at the same multiplier level, yes, but playing online on a 10x multiplier? I dare to think that'll be more than playing offline on default.

In short, everyone wins because everyone gets to play as they want. But do let me know why this is a bad idea and I should be shot for even daring to think of it in the first place.

This suggestion is brought to you by the tripleagameindustrybuzzwords.com Word Of The Day: "Player Choice".

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

He has stated it as a fact. That it should be inferred that he meant it as his opinion is the point you're making.

I don't think there are stats or studies available to support his statement. I find it's best to to give someone a chance to establish their position before launching into counter arguments. It's entirely possible that he has information that I don't. His answer may well have changed my position on the matter.

In this case that's not true.

Those would be correlative. They could be representative of new tech providing developers new ways of enhancing their games and maximising profits, for example. In a larger study of gamers habits and mentalities they could be used to enhance the case that modern gamers have an I want it now mentality. We would also have to establish that this mentality is exclusive to modern gamers. If it exists, it may well always have. The limiting factor may have been the tech of the time.

For generations the opinions, lifestyle choices, and moral compass, of younger generations have been criticised (often without any reason) by the older ones. If one is going to post such generalisations publicly, one should come with evidence. He may as well have said the Irish are dirty drivers, or gingers have fiery tempers.



You've repeated your original argument and then suggested we move on. If I countered in the first place, why would I now not?

Basically, we're arguing about how the statement was phrased. I understand the point you're making and it is valid. I knew OP was, most likely, stating his opinion, but he has phrased it as a fact. I gave him a chance to clarify before offering my own opinion.

We have had an online discussion without either (or both) of us resorting to insults or aggressive point scoring, so in a sense we're both winners.

I said move on because it wasn't really a debate it was difference in perspective of how his views on this topic and gaming in general should be approached. It wasn't stated as fact and I believe you're inferring a bit when doing such. I also wanted to move on because we're not really adding any thing to this topic, and it is respectful of this site to do such after such time. I don't believe we need a mod to tell us otherwise when we know better ourselves.

I'm glad as well we didn't default to insults, but I'm not surprised seemingly because why would rational people do that on a such a thread? I don't come here to win arguments are score points, quite obviously. Again I'm not going to see it eye to eye with you, I think he was trying to be subjective how it was interpreted it up to the one reading. That's all.

This is a cyclical argument at this point (as previously hinted) thus let's move on.

 

[SleezyBigSlim]

The other thing they have in common is they have a way to be updated, which developers can use to react to audience behaviours and deliver events and features that nurture long-term engagement.

So in essence conversations like this are vital to the improvement of the game, a bit like how GT league wasn’t there one day, then it was.

Yes because PD never planned to make GT League from the start and those leaked pics of GT League before the game was even out was all just made up. And Kaz never said he plans to have 500 cars in GT Sport nope never happened.

 

[rono_thomas]

Yes because PD never planned to make GT League from the start and those leaked pics of GT League before the game was even out was all just made up. And Kaz never said he plans to have 500 cars in GT Sport nope never happened.

Was GT League shipped with the physical copy?

 

[George Jakob]

Was GT League shipped with the physical copy?

nah

 

[SleezyBigSlim]

Was GT League shipped with the physical copy?

No point in complaining about an issue that has been fixed though. Everyone gets this content for free weather they pick up a used copy or buy digital. You make it sound like new buyers will have a gimped launch only version of the game when they buy it. Complaining about launch content needs to stop its ridiculous.

 

[Sander 001]

No point in complaining about an issue that has been fixed though. Everyone gets this content for free weather they pick up a used copy or buy digital. You make it sound like new buyers will have a gimped launch only version of the game when they buy it. Complaining on it launch content needs to stop its ridiculous.

I don’t think he was complaining about it, I think he was praising the fact that GT has turned into a Games as a Service type model so players benefit from an ever evolving, expanding game.

 

[rono_thomas]

No point in complaining about an issue that has been fixed though. Everyone gets this content for free weather they pick up a used copy or buy digital. You make it sound like new buyers will have a gimped launch only version of the game when they buy it. Complaining on it launch content needs to stop its ridiculous.

Who is complaining?

Just pointing out how GTS as a GAAS title can evolve through its audience, you originally pointed out that as a GAAS title there should only be acceptance from its player base in regards to its credit system, which I disagree with, as I explained previously.

 

[Sander 001]

In the old school days the instant gratification came via cheat codes. Now the cheat codes are available for $8.99 in the PSN store.

A year later and I was pretty close!

Of course just a straight cash for currency design would've been too crude and blatant, but a great idea nonetheless to incentivize relief from the extreme grind.

 

[QTheRacer_31]

A year later and I was pretty close!

Of course just a straight cash for currency design would've been too crude and blatant, but a great idea nonetheless to incentivize relief from the extreme grind.

So close indeed But it’s behind a skill wall so... Still need to grind to get the diamonds!