Economy system is a piece of ****!

[rallymorten]

They weren't terribly popular on GT5, where they were extremely easy to get with birthday tickets.

Alright, so maybe they aren't exactly as popular as a Toyota Supra or BMW E30, but is there not still an argument to be made that some of the people who might want them - even if for other reasons than online lobby racing - for one reason or another aren't going to grind along for days to get them, and thus make them more popular?

I'm not necessarily saying they should just be given out willy-nilly the first time you start the game (are you getting this, @fordlaser?). What I'm saying is that there comes a point where the sheer amount of effort required to obtain something far outweighs the "pride and accomplishment" associated with it - especially in a video game. The 20-million cars saw that point, laughed and sped off into the sunset.

Realistically, the best chance most will have of ever getting these is RNGesusing the Daily Workout, which likes nothing more than to tease you with something interesting and reward you with a car you've already won several times over. A car which, I remind everyone, you cannot sell for credits to go towards buying one of the very expensive cars.

 

[coryclifford]

Just bought the Jag.

Got all three $20 millions, by driving. Yeah it's a lot of driving but it's what I enjoy doing.

And drinking!

 

[RacingFan1]

You were right in terms of cars in Sport requiring less credits to upgrade. See the point I made on the upgrade system for the relevance of that.
You were right in the sense that if your grand plan is "buy a Supra", you're not likely to see *that* much of a difference, simply because of how inexpensive the car is. See the point where I calculate the credits/minute for the factuality on that one.

I wouldn't exactly call that "most of your points", but whatever goats your moat.



..you say that, and you don't see the correlation that maybe, just maybe, they're not used as often because of how ridiculously long the grind for one is?

As in if they were obtainable within a reasonable amount of time, couldn't one reasonably assume they'd more popular?



Yes. Your opinion.

My opinion (and the opinion of the majority, based on this thread) is that I shouldn't be grinding for countless hours (and, as I've demonstrated, that's what it takes) to get cars in a game I paid 60 bucks for.

So we're back at exactly sqaure one, aren't we? Now what?

Speaking of people that are back at square one:



Ah, the classic "50% of something is better than 100% of nothing"! How did I just know that was going to pop up sooner or later? And this is a good argument in favor of making games grindier because..?

Also, you keep saying that "the game is fine", and yet, despite your insistence on that, you still haven't answered my god-forsaken questions. Any one would think that's because you know you can't win an actual argument and thus resort to "moaning and groaning" about how all other people do is "moaning and groaning". Which is quite entertaining, by the way.

Whatever dude.



Suggestion: Try to be happy and try to look at the bright side of life.

View attachment 776889

Just bought the Jag.

Got all three $20 millions, by driving. Yeah it's a lot of driving but it's what I enjoy doing.

And drinking!

Thats what I use for the Nostalgic 1979, its quite fun to drive. If its your first one now you will do 240k in less than 7 min. My personal record is 6:51

 

[rallymorten]

Whatever dude.

Oh, please, spare the irony..

You seem to try really hard to have the last word here.

But that's fine. I can live with us agreeing to disagree on who has the numbers to back themselves up. I can live with us agreeing to disagree on whose opinion is the more ludicrous. And fortunately, I can live with us agreeing to disagree on who needs to try and find a bright side to life.

You have a wonderful life now.

 

[simsimsheree]

I think what we all need to do is take a look here:

https://tcrf.net/Gran_Turismo_6/Revisional_Differences#Car_Price_Adjustments

The plain fact of the matter is, PD made these same stupid economy decisions in previous games (or at least this one, can't quite remember about GT5/5Pro) and DID SOMETHING ABOUT IT.

There... you have it. PD themselves acknowledging that their economy calculations at first can be wrong, and amendable (on an ongoing basis). So everybody dug in like a tick that things are just peachy the way they are now, and how dare we suggest that things are far from good the way they are now, please be aware that PD themselves have found the same problem in the past. And fixed it (or at least made it better!).

So, how about we start to behave like the game designers themselves, and acknowledge that there are faults and possible solutions or improvements? And start to encourage the game designers themselves to repeat their efforts...

Personally, I think the place to improve is the online Lobby payouts. Not Sport Mode (enough desperation moves there already, no need to further incentivize high aggression!), but the online Lobby system could use a shot in the arm, and maybe encourage users to finally progress to rooms that are actually clean, and stewarded by actual humans rather than the Wild West of Sport Mode.

Upping the payouts might achieve this...

 

[CBH]

View attachment 776889

Just bought the Jag.

Got all three $20 millions, by driving. Yeah it's a lot of driving but it's what I enjoy doing.

And drinking!

You hit the nail right on the head my friend when you said this, Yeah it's a lot of driving but it's what I enjoy doing .

@rallymorten The amount of effort required to obtain something like the 20 million credit cars is not much if you think about it. This is a game you know, once you have all the cars that you need, there is no need to do some grinding. It took me a long time to get all the cars in the game, and it took me 4 months to get to level 50, and so what if it take you or anyone a long time to get the cars, ok I done some rubber banding and over 300 GT league race wins and some grinding a lot, but hey it was fun and that what this game is about .

Why players that want better payouts, because they want to get thing sooner rather than later and it does not work like that. If you want all the expensive cars you have to earn them whether it is grinding or what you do.
Even if it takes some players many many months to get what they want, because they think the credits system is kind of low which is not, or they can not spend a lot of time on this game well that is not a big problem.
This is a game to play over many months and get cars, but like some player on here they want bigger payouts and get everything in 5 minutes and that just does not happen that way.

If you want to earn credits and you play less, well you are going to take longer to earn them, and if you want to earn more credits you have to play more, and remember it is a game and not to get everything in 5 minutes.

 

[VeeDoubleU]

there is no need to do some grinding. It took me a long time to get all the cars in the game, and it took me 4 months to get to level 50, and so what if it take you or anyone a long time to get the cars, ok I done some rubber banding and over 300 GT league race wins and some grinding a lot, but hey it was fun and that what this game is about .

You are so funny to laugh at

 

[rono_thomas]

You hit the nail right on the head my friend when you said this, Yeah it's a lot of driving but it's what I enjoy doing .

@rallymorten The amount of effort required to obtain something like the 20 million credit cars is not much if you think about it. This is a game you know, once you have all the cars that you need, there is no need to do some grinding. It took me a long time to get all the cars in the game, and it took me 4 months to get to level 50, and so what if it take you or anyone a long time to get the cars, ok I done some rubber banding and over 300 GT league race wins and some grinding a lot, but hey it was fun and that what this game is about .

Why players that want better payouts, because they want to get thing sooner rather than later and it does not work like that. If you want all the expensive cars you have to earn them whether it is grinding or what you do.
Even if it takes some players many many months to get what they want, because they think the credits system is kind of low which is not, or they can not spend a lot of time on this game well that is not a big problem.
This is a game to play over many months and get cars, but like some player on here they want bigger payouts and get everything in 5 minutes and that just does not happen that way.

If you want to earn credits and you play less, well you are going to take longer to earn them, and if you want to earn more credits you have to play more, and remember it is a game and not to get everything in 5 minutes.

How can you not understand that having to rubberband because the grind is to long, even for someone like yourself who says they enjoy it, indicates an economy system that is in the very least in need of a few tweaks, like make sport mode payouts worthwile.

Oh and a few rubber bands you say, you KP stats suggest a lot more ...

 

[Woodybobs]

Not Sport Mode (enough desperation moves there already, no need to further incentivize high aggression!),

That could be solved by making the payouts fairly similar regardless of finishing position. It happens in many sports, albeit usually to ensure winning teams/individuals don't have a dominant budget.

Why players that want better payouts, because they want to get thing sooner rather than later and it does not work like that.

Increasing the prize money for Sport races wouldn't mean it's the quickest way to earn credits. The ease of getting a clean race bonus in single player would ensure the current meta earners would remain so.

 

[kjeldsen]

*EDIT*

 

[coryclifford]

I like your post @kjeldsen But I do feel they improve the game to unlock a simple and not too boring way to earn credits, via three more races that pay well.

A slight conundrum, eh?

 

[rono_thomas]

The game would be in trouble if the cars you need were hard to come by. Having a few unicorns that are very hard to get is not a problem for the game.

If they raised the payouts based on the unicorns the rest of the cars would be to cheap. If they lowered the price on the unicorns they would be horses.

IMHO the prices are valid for unicorns my issue is they are not used to improve the game.

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/economy-system-is-a-piece-of.382725/#post-12517893

Which is exactly why sport mode payouts are in need of improvement.

Race C this week 102,000 for a win, clean race bonus will bump that up to 150,000 ish, because I might be remembering the figures wrong lets round it up, 160,000 so in an hour of sport mode play the max you can expect is around 320,000.

Compare that to the offline payout.

(Credit @Mistah_MCA)

So as you say the credit payout is fair I have to assume you have taken offline payouts into consideration for this, it therefore seems natural think that you would support sport mode payouts to be brought into some sort of parity.

 

[kjeldsen]

*EDIT*

 

[rono_thomas]

Did you read my original post on page 1?

I did but to be fair I think its just confusing the issue.

Offline credit payouts need to either be brought down in line with sport mode (which would only exacerbate the problem).

Or, sport mode credit payouts need to be brought in line with offline, the grind would still be real but offline vs online would then be equals.

 

[rallymorten]

once you have all the cars that you need, there is no need to do some grinding

Well, yes, once you have the cars you need/want. Then there's no need to grind. Congratulations. That's about the only true thing you've said in this thread.

because they want to get thing sooner rather than later

..and this offends you because..?

it does not work like that

..and why shouldn't it work like that? This is just after you said:

This is a game you know

..I'm confused.

If you want all the expensive cars you have to earn them whether it is grinding or what you do.

As I've said before, I'm not entirely against *a progression system*, be it based on buying cars with credits or not.

What I *am* opposed to is a progression system reliant on constant grinding to an extent not even parody-RPGs dare go to. And when parody-RPGs shy away from a level of grinding, that should say a lot more than either of us can.

they think the credits system is kind of low which is not

..I think you'll find I factually proved you wrong just the other day. Sport does indeed pay worse than GT6 - even after the latter lost its Login Bonus.

or they can not spend a lot of time on this game well that is not a big problem.

..considering that..

This is a game you know

..then yes, it is a problem.

The question remains the following: what reason is there to lock them behind this level of grinding? Keeping them artificially rare? A sense of pride and accomplishment? It's a collection of worthless pixels on a screen - nothing more, nothing less. So why, again, do you want certain players to not experience said "pixels on a screen"?

This is a game to play over many months

Newsflash: many people have played the game over many months. Some people spend their time making amazing liveries. Others are wizards with Scapes. And yet others are just wanting to have fun in online lobbies.

"Play the game more" doesn't work as an argument for the game being balanced.

they want bigger payouts and get everything in 5 minutes

get everything in 5 minutes.

..here we go again with the 5 minutes.

So what if somebody want certain items to be just a little more accessible? Does it actively detract from your enjoyment of the game? Does it offend your religious belief? Does the very survival of humanity depend on whether or not this video game item is within conceivable reach to more players?

Yes, there is a certain amount of "pride and accomplishment" to be obtained from overcoming a goal in a game. Beating a tough boss, for instance, is a good one. Driving around in circles for hours on end for no better reason than "the game's decided that's how it wants to be played and if you're not up for that, tough 🤬 luck, Sonny Jim", however.. let's call it a *highly* subjective matter, shall we? And what's the thing with subjective matters presented as if they're facts, again?

But thank you for finally taking the time to compile something reminiscent of a response.

 

[coryclifford]

I would agree with, yes a sense of accomplishment.

The opposite of, yay, everyone gets a trophy!

 

[Sander 001]

I would agree with, yes a sense of accomplishment.

Ah the EA argument.
You're agreeing with the most downvoted comment that the Internet has ever witnessed, hope you realize that.

 

[coryclifford]

I don't even know what that means.

I was born in a time when people had to do work to get stuff. It's all I know.

 

[Sander 001]

I don't even know what that means.

I was born in a time when people had to do work to get stuff. It's all I know.

Did you fall for the disproved myth that millennials are an entitled generation or something?

Anyway, we're talking about a game here. I work a real job so I don't need to come home and be greeted with a giant grind wall.

 

[FoRiZon]

Did you fall for the disproved myth that millennials are an entitled generation or something?

Anyway, we're talking about a game here. I work a real job so I don't need to come home and be greeted with a giant grind wall.

Especially the kind of wall that can rise and shrink on couple of clicks and codes on developer behalf.

 

[CBH]

I work a real job so I don't need to come home and be greeted with a giant grind wall.

Stop jumping up & down and rolling over about the credit payouts. It is not the game fault that you have a real job it is you, yes you because you can not blame the game just because you have no time.

 

[rallymorten]

It is not the game fault that you have a real job it is you, yes you because you can not blame the game just because you have no time.

..so now its their own fault for not having enough time to grind a video game..

..because they're grinding in real life?

What kind of argument even is that?

 

[Scaff]

Stop jumping up & down and rolling over about the credit payouts. It is not the game fault that you have a real job it is you, yes you because you can not blame the game just because you have no time.

The time required to progress in any game is down to the design of the game, and that is the responsibility of only one group, the developers.

Its also clear that PD seem to be very aware of this, given that they have added micro-transactions to skip the grind for the vast majority of cars.

Now you have no problem with the grind, that doesn't mean that the game economy doesn't have issues (just that you are happy to accept those issues), or that the balance is right. Past GT titles threw cars at you at a much faster rate (as many as you could win - not a cap to a single car per 24 hours) and also paid out at a much higher rate per event, and for a number of titles added a daily sign-in multiplier!

GT has always been considered a title with grind (please let me know how many other racing titles have a long-running trick with a rubber band across the series to gain money), but the grind in GTS is visibly greater than in past titles. That alone would be enough to annoy a lot of people, but to address is with the tactics of the Free-to-Play genre is not one that's going to address those (valid) concerns.

 

[Tired Tyres]

Stop jumping up & down and rolling over about the credit payouts. It is not the game fault that you have a real job it is you, yes you because you can not blame the game just because you have no time.

Bad game loop design is not the players fault ever. Don't pretend it is.

Apologists that defend the undefendable are part of the problem. Not the solution. The solution is to fix the game loop economy.

 

[ThaSyn]

I love the game, but sadly I have to agree. The credits system sucks. Low rewards, gift cars cannot be sold... Makes earning money a boring business...

 

[yas]

Why players that want better payouts, because they want to get thing sooner rather than later and it does not work like that.

It's not sooner rather than later. It's at some point rather than never. There is a vast difference and it is actually worse - rono_thomas' table above relies on winning. In Sport Mode winning is much, much harder than in single player events. I have an account in which I only do sport mode races, none of the single player things - 12hours have accumulated1,079,800cr.
For many players, the game is the Sport Mode. Racing the same track against numb opponents for 10 hours is the definition of a bad grind. Yeah, for me in that case it is never, because I'll go on in playing the game the way it was initially planned. Since I have not particular interest in these cars, I won't grind. But it is strange that investing the same time brings less reward in the unicorn area.

 

[Sander 001]

Stop jumping up & down and rolling over about the credit payouts. It is not the game fault that you have a real job it is you, yes you because you can not blame the game just because you have no time.

You are explicitly implying that the game is designed for people who are unemployed. You’re fried!

 

[TurismoBad]

@fordlaser

Spending 1000 hours learning a skill that will give you something back or make you a better person - THAT'S "pride and accomplishment".

Do that and come back to me.

1000 hours grinding to get a car in a video game requires zero will power and determination and deserves no recognition. You call seating on a couch mindlessly running in a circle "hard work" ?

I call that "stop wasting your life away and do something productive" (or fun)

 

[MatskiMonk]

Did you fall for the disproved myth that millennials are an entitled generation or something?

I am getting the sense that people now more than ever have the mind set "it's my game and I should be able to play it how I want", rather than how I remember it as "I like what this developer/game is offering so I will buy it and play it as they intended". The expectation of the gamer/viewer appears to have become far more self centered, which I personally think is a bad thing when people are buying into a well established franchise, it's how we end up with 'toxic' fandoms being a thing.

 

[FoRiZon]

Stop jumping up & down and rolling over about the credit payouts. It is not the game fault that you have a real job it is you, yes you because you can not blame the game just because you have no time.

Great, now I'll quit my job and get a new one by grinding BMB GTSport 8 hours a day. Won't pay me real money but it'll give me credits with couple of eye strain, boredness of racing with AI, and possibly no interaction of outside world at all (since grinding BMB isn't even online). Oh and those 20 mil cars with that play style will still needs 2 full days for each car.

Blaming others for their day job is the most tone deaf and insulting thing I ever heard.

And something I would suggest for couple times:

1. Up the pay for the Sport Mode. Grinding GTLeague if cannot be eliminated should be a very secondary option besides Sport Mode. Wouldn't really mind grinding Sport Mode since atleast I could test my skill against real players. Especially the marketing that always prioritize Sport Mode, even on its title.

2. New cars for the 20 mil mark. I'll gladly rack up credits for, examples, Premiumized Chapparal 2J. The fact that all of these cars are from GT5-6 just didn't bite especially as a requirement for Nostalgia 1979 event (whose the AI can use other cars than those which felt insulting in a way). I'd rather choose to abandon them altogether.