Erdogan the Dictator.

  • Thread starter Dennisch
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Erdi probably wants to freshen up his harem with younger goats. Young goats are called kids.

!

That's funny, because in the 1980's the Netherlands was accused of selling children into sexual slavery at auctions held in Amsterdam. A story that, much like this one about Turkey wanting to allow sex with children, turned out to be false.

Another interesting fact is that Dutch law (and I bet the laws of most European countries) contains precisely what the Turkish constitutional court based their ruling on: the need for proportionality. If a 14-year-old and a 16-year-old are having sex in the Netherlands they are not sentenced to 16 years in prison. In Turkey they are (it's treated the same as if a 60-year-old had sex with a 4-year-old), and that is what made the court say that the law is in breach of the constitutional principle of proportionality, and that a new law needs to be made.
 
That's funny, because in the 1980's the Netherlands was accused of selling children into sexual slavery at auctions held in Amsterdam. A story that, much like this one about Turkey wanting to allow sex with children, turned out to be false.

Another interesting fact is that Dutch law (and I bet the laws of most European countries) contains precisely what the Turkish constitutional court based their ruling on: the need for proportionality. If a 14-year-old and a 16-year-old are having sex in the Netherlands they are not sentenced to 16 years in prison. In Turkey they are (it's treated the same as if a 60-year-old had sex with a 4-year-old), and that is what made the court say that the law is in breach of the constitutional principle of proportionality, and that a new law needs to be made.
Here is where the two cases (Turkey and the Netherlands) differ, if they do so at all. Actually there are two differences.

1. Turkey is NOT a member of the EU, just a member of NATO.

2. Turkey is 98% Islamic. Islam follows the model based on Muhammad. Muhammad married a girl as young as 6, and had sex with her at 9. (I can point out where in the Hadith if you like).

So Turkey lowering their age of consent is not them following the European culture at all, but rather them following their religious model.

If you still believe otherwise, I would like to see your sources.
 
So Turkey lowering their age of consent is not them following the European culture at all, but rather them following their religious model.

What makes you believe that? Wasn't Turkey 98% Islamic before this ruling of the constitutional court?

Also, if Islam is in favour of child marriage and sexual relations with children, and Turkey is being ruled by its religion rather than its constitution, why would a 98% Islamic country make a law that says that the age of consent is 18? Why would they make the default sentence 16 years in prison for anyone who has sex with someone under the age of 15?

What makes you think that proportionality is a good principle in Europe, but not in Turkey?

What makes you think that the age of consent has been lowered in Turkey?
 
What makes you believe that? Wasn't Turkey 98% Islamic before this ruling of the constitutional court?

Also, if Islam is in favour of child marriage and sexual relations with children, and Turkey is being ruled by its religion rather than its constitution, why would a 98% Islamic country make a law that says that the age of consent is 18? Why would they make the default sentence 16 years in prison for anyone who has sex with someone under the age of 15?

What makes you think that proportionality is a good principle in Europe, but not in Turkey?

What makes you think that the age of consent has been lowered in Turkey?
Two things for starters:

1. Age of consent has NOT been lowered to 12 YET! Until sometime next year, it is still 15.

2. I did not say that Turkey is a theocracy. I did say that this ruling was religiously motivated, yes, but my implying of Turkey's demographic did not mean that Turkey did not suddenly throw out their constitution overnight.

As far as your question is concerned, no, I do not think that proportionality is a good principle in Europe, or anywhere else that has such laws.
 
Two things for starters:

1. Age of consent has NOT been lowered to 12 YET! Until sometime next year, it is still 15.

Wrong, age of consent is 18. There is no proposition to lower it, not this year or next.

2. I did not say that Turkey is a theocracy. I did say that this ruling was religiously motivated, yes, but my implying of Turkey's demographic did not mean that Turkey did not suddenly throw out their constitution overnight.

Even if there were a desire from the religious community to lower the age of consent, why would the constitutional court care about it? What in their ruling makes you believe that there is any religious motivation behind it?

As far as your question is concerned, no, I do not think that proportionality is a good principle in Europe, or anywhere else that has such laws.

Okay, so in your opinion a couple of ages 14 and 15 consenting to having sex with each other should be treated the same by the justice system as if a 40-year-old rapes a 4-year-old? Do you think that the crimes are the same and that they should have the same consequences? Because that is what the current law in Turkey says, and the constitutional court found that it goes against the constitutional (not religious) principle of proportionality, and thus gave the parliament half a year to make a new law that better allows for this proportionality.
 

Yeah, pretty much. I think the reaction from Swedish officials was because some children's rights groups in Turkey had expressed concern about the ruling, and that was enough for the media and the government to buy the story without actually checking the sources. It wasn't until after our foreign minister had been called to the Turkish embassy that some media started questioning the initial reports.
 
It looks like that the conflict between the PKK and Turkey is turning into a full scale war pretty soon. More and more attacks in South East Turkey.

I wonder what will happen when the other Kurdish groups combine forces and start using that fine Western delivered weaponry on the Turks.
 
It looks like that the conflict between the PKK and Turkey is turning into a full scale war pretty soon. More and more attacks in South East Turkey.

I wonder what will happen when the other Kurdish groups combine forces and start using that fine Western delivered weaponry on the Turks.
I heard Turkey is invading Syria in force with tanks. Target: Kurds.
 
In today's news:

image-jpeg.571405
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The focus is on America for 'orchestrating' the coup.

Umm nothing surprising about news like these. Habierumturk appearantly interviewed David Rockefeller and he "admitted" everything lol
http://haberiumturk.com/ozel-haber/son-yuzyilin-en-buyuk-itiraflari-h8044.html
 
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Thanks Obama!
I read somewhere that interview is fake, not that article about coup orchestrating. Although I can't remember from where and I can't find anything else that debunks this. Also maybe its taken out of context or he was joking like in 2002. Anything but real and honest interview.

No thanks to Obama, but maybe Rockefeller for being a main character in hilarious nocontext/fake/joke articles like this interview.

Actually thanks should actually be sent to Habierumturk for an entertaining fake/no context/joke interview whatever .
 
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An additional 13,000 police officers have been suspended

They're all suspected of having links with, or being sympathetic to, Fethullah Gulen. Gulen is a suspected enemy to the goatmaster general. Around 2,500 of those suspended are senior officers such as police chiefs.

The article goes on to say that the "state of emergency" will be extended for a further three months when it is due to expire on 19th October, before talking about how education in Kurdish areas has been hit hard by these purges. One Kurdish town alone has had 4,000 teachers dismissed.

Gulen denies that he orchestrated the coup.
Erdogan denies that he is using the coup as an excuse to eliminate his opposition.

I'd say at least one of them is lying.
 
Overt nationalism, or Islamofascism?
It's clearly nationalism that's keeping his popularity(just look at any supporter rally).

Even though he is pushing an Islamic agenda.

Fascism is easy when you have nationalism doing your propaganda dirty work.
 
It's clearly nationalism that's keeping his popularity(just look at any supporter rally).

Even though he is pushing an Islamic agenda.
I had a little brainfart there.

A better way to put it would've been "overt nationalism coupled with Islamofascism?" now that I think of it, especially considering his low opinion of the PKK. Just too late to fix the original post now that it's been quoted :dopey:
 
Tayyip's politics could be best definied by the term "national populism". While the AKP has been, traditionally, a "big tent" party, Erdogan claims to be supported by an overwhelming majority of the Turkish people, asks for more authority in the hands of one man (namely, himself) on that basis, appeals to religious and national sentiment in the name of vaguely defined "tradition" and with a promise to restore a supposedly lost order and outside of a well-established theocratic or nationalist ideology (as would be the case of, say, Iran, or Nazist Germany), promises to uproot corruption and guarantee the welfare of all while presenting no actionable plan to actually achieve those goals. This checks all the boxes of national populism, and then some.

Of course, with Turkey being not a Western democracy made of checks and balances where the guns of the Silahlı Kuvvetleri have more weight than the rule of law, he gets to keep his demagogic promises far more easily. But make no mistake, the only reason he's not getting all chummy with Central European right-wing parties is that he appeals to Muslims while those parties appeal to Christians - which, in the frame of reference of nationalist and xenophobic politics, make them incompatible from the get-go.

P.S. the term "Islamofascism" is a misnomer.
Fascism is, essentially, an ideology that proposes to build a religion of the Nation, represented by the State; this is best expressed by the words of Giovanni Gentile (one of the fathers of the Fascist doctrine): "Fascism conceives of the State as an absolute, in comparison with which all individuals or groups are relative, only to be conceived in their relation to the State."
While the idea of defining theocratical totalitarianism as "fascism" may sound appealing, any such definition is self-contradictory. Islamic radicalism believes any temporal authority should be subordinate to the will of God and to Sharia. And I know that, especially in the English-speaking world, "fascism" and "totalitarianism" are essentially treated as synonyms, but they're not. This is important in understanding why Erdogan and the IS are not the same thing. Erdogan isn't surrendering a iota of decisional power to the Islamic clergy; the Islam he claims to protect is religion-as-a-cultural-system and not religion-as-cosmology. Compare it to the Daesh, which are led by an Imam, and believe that the end times as prophetized by Islam are near.
 
The Russian ambassador for Turkey Andrey Karlov has been shot and is rushed seriously injured to the hospital.

Edit.

He has been killed, the shooter has been 'disabled'.
 
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...Holy cow. Looks like it's ISIS again. BBC has the photo of the gunman pointing the ceiling with a pistol in hand.

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The link's embedded into the image. BBC has no update regarding the health of the ambassador, though.
 
The gunmen is the guy Behind the ambassador, this was several seconds before he started shooting.

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There is no way this is not a government backed assination, given he was a Body guard, this level of planning is far beyond some anti Russian group.
 
Karlov was several minutes into a speech at the exhibit when a man shouted “Allahu Akbar” and fired at least eight shots, according to an AP photographer who was present.
Another isolated incident from the religion of peace no doubt
 
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