Europe - The Official Thread
- Thread starter Touring Mars
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Amidst a deepening row between Italy's ruling coalition and the EU, the far-right leader of the 'League', Matteo Salvini, is now officially under investigation for his role in the stand-off regarding the disembarkation of asylum seekers from a boat currently off the shores of Italy. The upshot is that Salvini and the Italian government may have broken EU law by not allowing all of the asylum seekers off the boat when it docked earlier in the week - children and people requiring medical help were allowed to disembark, but a further 134 people were not allowed and remain stranded on the boat - however this is in contravention of EU law. Somehow I don't think it is going to go down very well if the Italian government are effectively forced to allow asylum seekers to dock.. The leader of the other half of the coalition has threatened to withhold Italy's monthly contributions to the EU budget if the EU don't agree to redistribute the migrants between other EU member states.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...mally-investigated-over-migrant-ship-standoff
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...mally-investigated-over-migrant-ship-standoff
HenrySwanson
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True, and Glasgow has a higher murder rate than London. But one has to wonder why we as a people are so prone to getting stuck in poverty worldwide if that really is just the root cause.
We also have to look at propensity to violence:
If we take the US as an example since it's similar to UK in terms of how multicultural it is and look at the list of cities by murder rate, there are 4 that make the top 50:
St. Louis
Baltimore
New Orleans
Detroit
If we look at the demographics of these cities we find that three quarters of them have over half the population being black:
St. Louis - 46.4%
Baltimore - 63.7%
New Orleans - 60.2%
Detroit - 82.7%
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cities_by_murder_rate
I think we're inherently more prone to violence, or should I say aggression due to evolution/our culture.
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- mustafur
Intresting that 47 of the 50 most dangerous cities are all in the Americas.
While poverty might take a part in it, it's indeed social/culture that's the primary reason, otherwise surely Africa would dominate this list.
The 3 that are in Africa are in one of the richest African Countries as well(South Africa).
It could also be income inequality that fuels this, as that seems to link strongly with the countries that have highest crime in the list.
While poverty might take a part in it, it's indeed social/culture that's the primary reason, otherwise surely Africa would dominate this list.
The 3 that are in Africa are in one of the richest African Countries as well(South Africa).
It could also be income inequality that fuels this, as that seems to link strongly with the countries that have highest crime in the list.
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- Johnnypenso
I believe the research definitely shows a link or correlation between income inequality and violent crime. Establishing causality or the relationship between the two is hard to establish. The higher crime rates are usually associated with poor vs. poor crime so the mechanism at work or the causality, if it exists, is not easy to establish.
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Not that I have any particular data to back this up, but I believe there exists so much violence in American cities due to:
Severe income inequality
Poverty
Disillusionment across a broad range of institutions
Relatively easy access to weapons
All of this basically fuels an almost apocalyptic outlook for a lot of people in cities like Detroit & St Luis. There is no path to prosperity or even acceptable living conditions other than doing whatever it takes to get ahead. The system isn't broken...there is no system. What amplifies it is the constant social bombardment from the wealthier segments of the country basically advertising "this is what your life should be like, if only you had more money".
What makes poverty in America so bad, in my opinion, is that there is no mutual camaraderie due to the disillusionment in the fabric of our culture, as well as our institutions. There is no feeling of "we're in this together". The feeling is "every man for himself."
Dotini
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A political panic attack in Sweden?
https://spectator.us/2018/08/swedens-political-panic-attack/
As violent crime soars, the Sweden Democrats gain support
Fredrik Erixon
https://spectator.us/2018/08/swedens-political-panic-attack/
As violent crime soars, the Sweden Democrats gain support
Fredrik Erixon
Who would 'we' be in this sentence and by evolution/culture do you mean socialised or biological which was the actual question being asked.
Dotini
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Stand by for another global financial crisis, a real whopper, equal or worse than 2008.
http://www.savannahnow.com/news/20180903/global-debt-soars-along-with-fears-of-crisis-ahead
http://www.savannahnow.com/news/20180903/global-debt-soars-along-with-fears-of-crisis-ahead
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Sweden goes to the polls on Sunday and the far-right (Eurosceptic) 'Sweden Democrats' are expected to make significant gains, potentially finishing as the second largest party with a projected vote share of anything between around 18-20%.
All other parties have vowed to shun the Sweden Democrats and not form a coalition with them, but they could still have a significant influence in the parliament if they succeed in taking a large number of seats from the traditional, centrist and left-wing parties that have dominated Swedish politics in the recent past.
The Sweden Democrats have gained support largely on the basis of adopting a strongly anti-immigrant stance at a time when Sweden (arguably one of the most liberal and progressive countries in the world) is struggling to integrate a huge number of migrants. The EU will be watching anxiously to see how Sweden votes this weekend...
All other parties have vowed to shun the Sweden Democrats and not form a coalition with them, but they could still have a significant influence in the parliament if they succeed in taking a large number of seats from the traditional, centrist and left-wing parties that have dominated Swedish politics in the recent past.
The Sweden Democrats have gained support largely on the basis of adopting a strongly anti-immigrant stance at a time when Sweden (arguably one of the most liberal and progressive countries in the world) is struggling to integrate a huge number of migrants. The EU will be watching anxiously to see how Sweden votes this weekend...
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funny how everything that isn't pro-immigration is automatically labelled as far-right ... like in recent protests in Chemnitz, just because few skinheads show up, thousands attending are labelled as far-right, nazis, racists, etc. by mainstream media.
I wouldn't be surprised if Sweden Democrats only wanted to curb immigration to sensible scale which made them obviously very far-right in mainstream media.
UKMikey
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The Sweden Democrats have strong links to neo-Nazis and they really are 'far-right'.funny how everything that isn't pro-immigration is automatically labelled as far-right ... like in recent protests in Chemnitz, just because few skinheads show up, thousands attending are labelled as far-right, nazis, racists, etc. by mainstream media.
I wouldn't be surprised if Sweden Democrats only wanted to curb immigration to sensible scale which made them obviously very far-right in mainstream media.
The trouble is that people who have legitimate concerns over Sweden's stance on immigration are being attracted by the Sweden Democrats because of their strongly anti-immigration stance, but the party has gained legitimacy and a veneer of acceptability that masks their more sinister origins and attitudes.
Even a moderate shift towards SD in these elections will probably have the effect of forcing the (far) more moderate centrist parties to take the immigration issue a lot more seriously.
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hopefully, I also dislike when real neo-nazis are gaining ground in politics just because no other party is willing to take some issues seriously.
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So you are quick to judge whole party as is today by action of three members eight years ago? I'm not refuting their historical connection to neo-nazis or far-right, but according to a projected vote share, they either changed enough or Swedes are really desperate.
No, but some information from the mainstream media have to be taken with a grain of salt.
VolkswagenX
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UKMikey
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I would like to know why none of the other parties want to work with them in a coalition. Perhaps they're in on the conspiracy as well.
After all it's not like the iron pipe scandal was an isolated incident.
After all it's not like the iron pipe scandal was an isolated incident.
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The way I see it, the Sweden Democrats are like the Front National in France or the BNP in the UK - they have realised (some time ago) that the best way to achieve their aims is to form a mainstream political party, and that means adopting language, behaviour and policies that appeal to a wider audience. The suspicion is, however, that it is largely a ruse to gain power and that they are still as xenophobic, racist and fascist as before, they have just learned to tone down their language and behaviour enough to make their policies more palatable.
I reckon that Sweden's liberal values and culture have created a dilemma that is similar to the moral dilemma facing the EU on a much larger scale. Sweden has, to its credit, stepped up to the immense challenge of how to humanely treat hundreds of thousands of desperate and destitute people - but the practical realities of their laudable actions are starting to hit home. Sweden is starting to discover that 'integration' doesn't necessarily mean that newcomers 'become Swedish' (though that was probably the original idea), but that it also runs the risk of Swedish values and culture changing as a result of an increasingly diverse population, mainly as a result of its liberal immigration policies. Unfortunately, the mainstream parties have been too slow to realise that many people in Sweden are extremely worried about this, and handed the Sweden Democrats their signature policy. Unfortunately, an anti-immigration stance and right-wing politics go hand in hand, and while there are some serious concerns about immigration, right-wing parties are always going to benefit.
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Current polls have the election as too close to call between the centre-left bloc and the centre-right bloc, but the Sweden Democrats are polling at anything between 16-25%. It is possible, however unlikely, that the SD may well win the largest vote share of any one political party, however no-one from the centre-left or centre-right bloc wants to form a coalition with them - but it would be a significant landmark if they do manage to win the largest vote share, even if it won't allow them to govern. I don't know what the situation is in Sweden, but I believe in the UK that the party with the largest vote share get first crack at forming a coalition, so things could get interesting if the SD do better than expected.
That said, even a vote share between 16-20% would send a strong message about the political price of liberal immigration policies - if Sweden, arguably one of the most liberal and progressive countries in the world can vote 1 in 5 for a far-right anti-immigration policy, then the EU's hopes of a grand deal would be left in tatters.
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I agree that cultural issues related to immigration as @Touring Mars wrote, play a big role in increased support for the SD, there are also other problems in Sweden which need to be tackled, like problems in healthcare and pension system, housing shortage and ever increasing taxation that can be related to immigration also gains support for the SD.
Dotini
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IMO the primary reason for the increase in anti-immigration populism across Europe is the refugees fleeing the chaos in Central Asia, the Middle East and North Africa. And the primary reason for all this chaos is military intervention by the US, Britain and France. So it is self-inflicted blowback from ill-advised adventures in other people's countries. The great project of a united, liberal socialist Europe guided by ideals of globalism, human rights and diversity stands to be torn to pieces, sacrificed on the altar of regime change and social engineering in distant lands.
