Explosions at Brussels' Zaventem airport and Maelbeek metro station

[Johnnypenso]

Well, I asked my dad and apparently the Belgian security and police are around a decade behind in terms of how they operate, which may give some of an explanation as to how this managed to happen. Also, he said that the Belgian Secret Service (or equivalent) pass information on to the MI divisions here in the UK. They then process it and pass it to the Metropolitan Police Service, who then pass it on to the Belgian Police... so by the time all that happens it can be too late for anything. That in itself has to change to prevent any more attacks like this...

Sounds like a typical, soft, bloated government bureaucracy, that's been able to remain so because they haven't faced any real sustained challenges for some time. A decade behind or a decade ahead? Is it more advanced or more backwards to have a policy of not being able to raid a home between 9pm and 5 am? Don't want to disturb the criminals while they sleep I guess.

 

[ECGadget]

A decade behind or a decade ahead? Is it more advanced or more backwards to have a policy of not being able to raid a home between 9pm and 5 am? Don't want to disturb the criminals while they sleep I guess.

Decade behind; I wasn't directly referring to the policies as I do not know enough about those, but in terms of operation itself. Limited or no communication between the police and secret services is very outdated and many places set up better services, especially post Sept 11th, 2001

 

[TenEightyOne]

Sounds like a typical, soft, bloated government bureaucracy, that's been able to remain so because they haven't faced any real sustained challenges for some time. A decade behind or a decade ahead? Is it more advanced or more backwards to have a policy of not being able to raid a home between 9pm and 5 am? Don't want to disturb the criminals while they sleep I guess.

As your source points out there's nothing to stop them surrounding a home. That's what they did, he didn't leave the home and he wasn't there when they entered.

 

[Johnnypenso]

As your source points out there's nothing to stop them surrounding a home. That's what they did, he didn't leave the home and he wasn't there when they entered.

Odd that they said the house and streets were not sealed off then:

“the immediate surroundings and the streets surrounding the property were not sealed off during the night.”“All we know is that we had good reasons to believe that Salah Abdeslam was in the house that night, and that the next morning the raid was negative,” Mr. Van der Sijpt said.

We all know if you surround someone with heavily armed militia or guards there's no way to escape either.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Decade behind; I wasn't directly referring to the policies as I do not know enough about those, but in terms of operation itself. Limited or no communication between the police and secret services is very outdated and many places set up better services, especially post Sept 11th, 2001

A former CIA Director agrees with you:

While France and Britain have “very good”, “aggressive” security services, Belgium’s, he said, is “small, under-resourced, legally limited and frankly, working for a government that itself has its own challenges in terms of overall governance.” “European defence and security policy has proved to be little more than an aspiration,” sir Richard said in his intervention, adding “Britain is Europe’s leader in intelligence and security matters and gives much more than it gets in return. It is difficult to imagine any of the other EU members ending the relationships they already enjoy with the UK.”

“The pro-EU politician from Belgium who spoke after General Hayden had his head deep in the sand, defending the European Commission’s attempt to use the Brussels attacks as an excuse to grab power over national intelligence services,” he said. “Personally, I can’t think of anything more likely to undermine the freedom the terrorists want to destroy than a central spy agency under the control of the inept and unaccountable Eurocrats who enabled the current security crisis.

Sorry...double post.

 

[Rich S]

Lovely

To me, it seems like Donald Trumps immigration policies seem more reasonable every day. Of course I dont agree with the constant disparaging remarks from donald to everyone else under the sun either....but on immigration its agreeable for me personally. Donald obviously has some issues.... but he does immigration right.

 

[kikie]

Ain't Belgium grand?

 

[Blitz24]

Lovely

To me, it seems like Donald Trumps immigration policies seem more reasonable every day. Of course I dont agree with the constant disparaging remarks from donald to everyone else under the sun either....but on immigration its agreeable for me personally. Donald obviously has some issues.... but he does immigration right.

Maybe if Palestine condemned the attack this video would look less damning.

 

[Sanji Himura]

Well, I asked my dad and apparently the Belgian security and police are around a decade behind in terms of how they operate, which may give some of an explanation as to how this managed to happen. Also, he said that the Belgian Secret Service (or equivalent) pass information on to the MI divisions here in the UK. They then process it and pass it to the Metropolitan Police Service, who then pass it on to the Belgian Police... so by the time all that happens it can be too late for anything. That in itself has to change to prevent any more attacks like this...

I wouldn't be surprised if some of that intelligence finds its way to the US in one way or another from the UK since the CIA and the MI divisions do share intelligence.

 

[TenEightyOne]

Odd that they said the house and streets were not sealed off then:

It was your link, you brought the facts to the table. Perhaps "sealed off" means something different on your side of the pond? Either way, your link says;

measures were taken to monitor the area, although he would not specify what was done.

“If Salah Abdeslam had been there during the night, we would have gotten him,” he said.

“We took measures throughout the night to make sure that Salah Abdeslam could not flee that particular home if he indeed was there.”

 

[Johnnypenso]

It was your link, you brought the facts to the table. Perhaps "sealed off" means something different on your side of the pond? Either way, your link says;

Since when does, "sealed off the area" = "we took measures but can't tell you what they were". Again, direct quote from the article, emphasis mine:

“the immediate surroundings and the streets surrounding the property were not sealed off during the night.”“All we know is that we had good reasons to believe that Salah Abdeslam was in the house that night, and that the next morning the raid was negative,” Mr. Van der Sijpt said.

 

[TenEightyOne]

Since when does, "sealed off the area" = "we took measures but can't tell you what they were". Again, direct quote from the article, emphasis mine:

I'm not sure what your point is? Sealing an area off means that nothing comes or goes, there is a complete restriction on movement. In this case they weren't looking to detain or impede everybody in the entire area - they were looking to stop a single man if he left a house they had under observation using methods that, as you quote, they're not prepared to reveal. They had good reason to believe information that they were given say that Abdeslam was in the house, it turned out they were wrong.

So what?

 

[kikie]

It turns out that a Belgian liaison officer in Turkey is to blame for the late warning. Not Turkey.
Again, it's a Belgian that made the mistake.

Is it time for me to immigrate?

 

[Rage Racer]

I heard a Belgian nuclear power station employee was killed and his pass has been stolen. True?

 

[kikie]

I heard a Belgian nuclear power station employee was killed and his pass has been stolen. True?

Yes.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Yes.

...Interesting, in a bad way that I'd only enjoy out of a spy novel.

 

[kikie]

The security card of the killed securitity officer was stolen. This card was deactivated immetiately.


According to the police, this journalist could well be the third terrorist in Zavemtem. The one that fled Zavemtem prior to the explosions.

 

[mister dog]

Is it time for me to immigrate?

Yes

 

[novcze]

Milo Yiannopoulos and Dave Rubin Talk Brussels Attacks

 

[novcze]

How Belgium became the hub of terror in Europe

 

[Crash]

A good article on the difficulties Belgium faces and the how that led to what Brussels became.

 

[kikie]

A good article on the difficulties Belgium faces and the how that led to what Brussels became.

It seems that Trump may be right about Brussel(s).

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Another day, another Belgian blunder; apparently the police of Mechelen (city), got a tip last December about Abid Aberkan, a nephew of Salah Abdeslam, that he was radicalizing and they should keep an eye on him.

A rapport was made but the police chief chose to hold the information back. Salah Abdeslam was arrested in his house last week...

Is that a blunder, or is it a tactical move that paid off? You have got Abdeslam, a wanted terrorist, on the run. You have got a report that his nephew is becoming radicalised. Do you move to arrest the nephew immediately, or do you wait and watch, knowing that Abdeslam would feel safe there? You still give yourself the option of arresting the nephew if he tries anything, but who is the bigger target here - the known terrorist or the suspected sympathiser? Arrest the nephew too soon, and you give Abdeslam a chance to further evade you and possibly plan other attacks. Given that watching and waiting is exactly what the Belgian police did and that it netted Abdeslam, I would hardly call it a blunder.

Once again, you're making a few key assumptions that are inherently flawed. You're assuming that Abdeslam and his nephew had knowledge of the Brussels attacks, and that arresting them sooner would have prevented the attacks. However, you have no evidence to support either assumption. According to you, all terrorists know of every planned attack, even though it has been explained to you that they keep their operations small to avoid the attentions of security agencies. In some cases, not even ISIL know about it and only claim credit after the fact - look at Man Haron Monis, the gunman in the Sydney siege. He claimed to be working for ISIL, but no connection could be found until he made the claim; he was an unstable man trying to draw attention to his supposed plight - persecution by the police and a conspiracy against him by the courts - and knew that claiming the connection would get what he wanted.

 

[mister dog]

I think you're over estimating the Belgian PD. Turned out this report from December was still archived at their local offices until this was revealed after the Brussels attacks last week. They never passed it along.

Regarding Abdeslam, the recent safe houses where his fingerprints were found, and the terrorists that struck last week were all connected. They actually planned their attack on easter Monday but moved it forward after Abdeslam was arrested, and his lawyer told the press that he was willing to give information.

It's true that cells are getting smaller to avoid attention though, but in this particular case there was a connection.

 

[TenEightyOne]

I think you're over estimating the Belgian PD. Turned out this report from December was still archived at their local offices until this was revealed after the Brussels attacks last week. They never passed it along.

Source?

They actually planned their attack on easter Monday but moved it forward

Source?

It's true that cells are getting smaller to avoid attention though

Source? I thought ISIS had adopted the Euro model (2-5 members, non-linear comms) for their operations, similar to the way that Al Qaeeda cells operate?

 

[mister dog]

Source?

http://www.hln.be/hln/nl/36484/Aans.../Adres-Abdeslam-zwart-op-wit-in-rapport.dhtml

Source?

http://www.metronieuws.nl/nieuws/buitenland/2016/03/aanslagen-brussel-waren-gepland-voor-paasmaandag

Source? I thought ISIS had adopted the Euro model (2-5 members, non-linear comms) for their operations, similar to the way that Al Qaeeda cells operate?

http://www.demorgen.be/binnenland/t...-achter-aanslagen-brussel-en-parijs-b450c0fd/

I suppose you'll try and find any small inaccuracy now, and throw that back at me like always?

 

[TenEightyOne]

http://www.hln.be/hln/nl/36484/Aans.../Adres-Abdeslam-zwart-op-wit-in-rapport.dhtml

Fair enough. In a modern world one would expect that data to be pollable across the entire Belgian PD network, that's pretty bad.

]http://www.metronieuws.nl/nieuws/buitenland/2016/03/aanslagen-brussel-waren-gepland-voor-paasmaandag

So it's not an actuality but a possibility from an un-named "source".

http://www.demorgen.be/binnenland/t...-achter-aanslagen-brussel-en-parijs-b450c0fd/

It re-explains the connection but doesn't say anything about it being

true that cells are getting smaller to avoid attention

I suppose you'll try and find any small inaccuracy now, and throw that back at me like always?

No, it's just nice to see sources for the things you claim to be true. Out of those three you scored 1, a half and a zero

 

[mister dog]

No, it's just nice to see sources for the things you claim to be true. Out of those three you scored 1, a half and a zero

Your grading sucks

 

[mister dog]

According to the police, this journalist could well be the third terrorist in Zavemtem. The one that fled Zavemtem prior to the explosions.

He was recognized in a lineup by the cab driver that gave the terrorists a ride to Zaventem. Get this he has just been released from jail without conditions as they couldn't prove it from the investigation...

 

[Soundtrack]

Fayçal Cheffou is a free man. Theo Francken (Secretary of State for Asylum, Migration and Administrative Simplification) probably owns the man an apology.