Explosions at Brussels' Zaventem airport and Maelbeek metro station

[Soundtrack]

Gunshots also accompanied the reported shouts, but the federal prosecutor has already denied the presence of fire weapons belonging to the authors on the airport site.

 

[kikie]

If I have understood the incidents correctly, there was Arabic shouted before the bombs detonated. Is there any idea on what was shouted?

No, as @TenEightyOne, nothing has been reported on what he shouted just before detonating the bombs. Or I missed it and it was reported on the Belgian news.

 

[squadops]

It's not in the name of any God that I know.

 

[kikie]

Not officially confirmed yet but there could have been a second terrorist involved in the bombing of the metro station in Maalbeek.

Sketch of the, probably, second terrorist.

If somenone is wondering why I spell Maalbeek with tow "aa", this is because it's the Dutch name for this metro station. Maelbeek is the French name.





Update: it is possible that the two brothers wanted to attack a nuclear powerplant. This tragedy was avoided when the police found a 10 hour video where the two brothers were spying on the house of a top-executive of this nuclear powerplant.

This video was found by the police on februari 17th and immediately 140 soldiers were employed to protect this nuclear powerplant. It is speculated that the two brothers bombed Zavemtem and the metro station instead.

Yesterday, an article mentioned that the Zavemtem and the metro bombing was originally planned for next monday. They changed their plan to tuesday because they were afraid that Abdeslam was going to talk to the police.

Abdeslam refuses to cooperate with the investigation and wants to be extradited to France as soon as possible.

 

[Soundtrack]

Lots of politics tensions in the government this morning, Minister of Interior supposedly asking to resign…

Edit: Minister of Justice supposedly asked to resign too. Prime Minister refused for both. Little details at this time but major errors must have occurred.

 

[kikie]

Belgium has made mistakes, no doubt about that but the biggest mistake was made by Turkey. Turkey waited at least one week before they warned the Dutch and Belgian authorities about Ibrahim El Bakraoui's being send to the Netherlands without any policemen or whatever to accompany him.

Shame on you Turkey!


One week is enough for Ibrahim El Bakraoui to disappear.

 

[mister dog]

Belgium has made mistakes, no doubt about that but the biggest mistake was made by Turkey. Turkey waited at least one week before they warned the Dutch and Belgian authorities about Ibrahim El Bakraoui's being send to the Netherlands without any policemen or whatever to accompany him.

Shame on you Turkey!


One week is enough for Ibrahim El Bakraoui to disappear.

I hope you're sarcastic there, Turks send him back on the plane whilst he should have been in Jail:

2010:
Fires with a Kalashnikov on police officers during a failed robbery, gravely injuring one police officer (attempt at murder anyone?). Is convicted to 10 years in prison.

2014:
Is released on parole despite negative advice of the prison director, conditions state that he cant have contact with known undesirables, and has to report to an officer once a month.

2015:
Is arrested in Turkey in June, Turks report it to Belgium on the 26th of June, same day that he was supposed to meet his parole officer. Thus violating the conditions. Turkey sends him back with a plane on the 14th of July, conditions of the extradition are still unclear. The sending back to BE or NL, or the the time when the Belgian embassy was informed haven't been confirmed yet. In any case he already violated his terms in Belgium, so police should have already started tracking the bastard.

Only in August 2015, the order for his arrest is given, and by then the bird has flown.

http://www.nieuwsblad.be/cnt/dmf20160324_02200446

Major fails of the Belgian justice sytem, and the intelligence services if you ask me. I don't think both Geens nor Jambon would have tried to resign today otherwise neither.

 

[RX-7_FD3S]

I think before talking about fail and other stuff you need to analyse the situation and realize it's not that easy. After they did something sure it's easy to blame whoever is to blame but before it happen there's like 300 to 400 people that you need to look up too, not even considering the new ISIS recruit departing for training.

For example in my town, Geneva, we know there's a Imam preaching for ISIS, we discovered there was 2 guys working at the airport that went in Syria and we keep discovering new people.

Instead of blaming the goverment for something that couldnt probably be avoided because of how our society is, we should rather try to understand why those people have so much hate for us european/american. Like it or not we cannot put people in jail before anything happen, this would bring us back 100-150 years back in time concerning our civil right.
I know america did it in Guatanameno but I can't support anyhting like this even if terrorism is the worst thing.

Another example on how pointless the goverment is, France announced yesterday after the event that gonna raise the security again at border. Today I went shopping in france (Geneva is really next to it) and there was no one at the french border controlling people getting in the country.

 

[Dennisch]

The Netherlands knew that El Bakraoui was being sent here by Turkey, a day after his arrival. Belgium however, did only supply his name, and not the reason for his deportation. Therefore there was no reason for the Netherlands to detain him.

 

[mister dog]

I think before talking about fail and other stuff you need to analyse the situation and realize it's not that easy.

In this case it actually was, just look at the chain of events i mentioned above.

After they did something sure it's easy to blame whoever is to blame but before it happen there's like 300 to 400 people that you need to look up too, not even considering the new ISIS recruit departing for training.
For example in my town, Geneva, we know there's a Imam preaching for ISIS, we discovered there was 2 guys working at the airport that went in Syria and we keep discovering new people.

Drastic times call for drastic measures. Known extremists/criminals that went to Syria and returned should be either jailed or scrutinized daily just for that offence. More means and money should go to police and intelligence services for that sake. Either do it like that or prevent hem from returning in the first place which would have been my personal preference.

Instead of blaming the goverment for something that couldnt probably be avoided because of how our society is, we should rather try to understand why those people have so much hate for us european/american.

I might hate someone too, but that doesn't mean i would go out and kill him. Will society be blamed for me being a murderer in case that i do? These guys are probably laughing with how weak and spineless Europe and its people have become, trying to be 'Gutmenschen' all the time.

Like it or not we cannot put people in jail before anything happen, this would bring us back 100-150 years back in time concerning our civil right.

If they went to fight in Syria something did already happen. Like i said IMO the best way would have been to prevent them from coming back and let them die there for their ideology though.

Another example on how pointless the goverment is, France announced yesterday after the event that gonna raise the security again at border. Today I went shopping in france (Geneva is really next to it) and there was no one at the french border controlling people getting in the country

Another example of how our governments fail in this area.

 

[Soundtrack]

@RX-7_FD3S

While can I agree on many points of your post, I can hardly imagine that a man with a criminal record, on probation, supposedly identified by Turkish authorities as a potentially dangerous returnee, can travel freely to the Netherlands (or any other european location) without that being the result of a dysfunctional system. Sure more info on what actually happened there is needed.

 

[RX-7_FD3S]

In this case it actually was, just look at the chain of events i mentioned above.

Yeah but that chain of event was the same for the french terrorists. And like I said there's probably more than 500 people in the same situation. Jail at least in my country are more than full, I'm guessing it's the same in Belgium.

Drastic times call for drastic measures. Known extremists/criminals that went to Syria and returned should be either jailed or scrutinized daily just for that offence. More means and money should go to police and intelligence services for that sake. Either do it like that or prevent hem from returning in the first place which would have been my personal preference.

I dont agree, we arent in drastic time, you gotta remember that Al Quaida bombed the train/metro in madrid already in 2004, it's been like that since 9/11. You just feel it more now because it's your country that was attacked. And I dont think that giving up on our civil right will benefit to anyone in the long term. And your idea of following people everyday is just not possible to do.

I might hate someone too, but that doesn't mean i would go out and kill him. Will society be blamed for me being a murderer in case that i do? These guys are probably laughing with how weak and spineless Europe and its people have become, trying to be 'Gutmenschen' all the time.

Well if you think that it's better to live in countries like that moves there, I can guarantee you'll be back in Belgium in no times.

If they went to fight in Syria something did already happen. Like i said IMO the best way would have been to prevent them from coming back and let them die there for their ideology though.

Like I said before, there's too many people that went there in europe atm to survey or put them all in jail. I know it's sad and annoying and whatever you want but atm with the way we live we can't really do a lot of stuff against attack like these.

@RX-7_FD3S

While can I agree on many points of your post, I can hardly imagine that a man with a criminal record, on probation, supposedly identified by Turkish authorities as a potentially dangerous returnee, can travel freely to the Netherlands (or any other european location) without that being the result of a dysfunctional system. Sure more info on what actually happened there is needed.

I know it's hard to believe but if you look up on the terrorists in Paris they have mostly the same pedigree. Lots of peoples that goes in Syria are already in the backcourt of the society doing shaddy buisness like drugs, weapon dealing or other black market stuff and have already gone to jail. I know it because like I said my town is really close to france and on television we're mostly watching french show/news.


That's why I'm lost with this because honestly I dont have a solution, I wish I could have one and say look let's do this and it could solve everyhting but I dont and personnaly I'm not ready yet to kill my civil right so that we can stop a bunch of crazy people that was create by our own nations. That's another subject but you gotta realize that the french governement knew about ISIS when they attacked Syria and even support them at first because it was a asset going against Bachar el-Assad, it's only when ISIS start attacking Irakee target that they realize they maybe made a mistake but by then it was too late, it already grew into the hydra we know. Other goverment probably knew about it too in the UN.

 

[Dennisch]

Jail at least in my country are more than full, I'm guessing it's the same in Belgium.

That is correct, but that problem was solved by sending inmates to the Netherlands. We have plenty of room. We even have Norwegian inmates here.

 

[Soundtrack]

I know it's hard to believe but if you look up on the terrorists in Paris they have mostly the same pedigree. Lots of peoples that goes in Syria are already in the backcourt of the society doing shaddy buisness like drugs, weapon dealing or other black market stuff and have already gone to jail. I know it because like I said my town is really close to france and on television we're mostly watching french show/news.

I'm not surprised by the profile but by the weakness or lack of monitoring.

 

[mister dog]

Yeah but that chain of event was the same for the french terrorists. And like I said there's probably more than 500 people in the same situation. Jail at least in my country are more than full, I'm guessing it's the same in Belgium.

Simple. Build new ones. If there's a shortage of roads, roads would be build too.

And I dont think that giving up on our civil right will benefit to anyone in the long term. And your idea of following people everyday is just not possible to do.

Not our civil rights, the rights of wannabe terrorists and IS fighters. My idea is perfectly possible with this:

Well if you think that it's better to live in countries like that moves there, I can guarantee you'll be back in Belgium in no times.

I left Belgium 8 years ago. But in any case, i'd sign up for a country with border checks and tough laws on terrorists immediately. Seeing i'm not an IS sympathizer and i don't feel like killing people en masse, these laws wouldn't affect me or my liberties as a normal civilian in the slightest bit. Maybe the queue might be longer when i want to leave the country, but that's a sacrifice i'll gladly make if i know it helps in preventing undesirables entering.

know it's sad and annoying and whatever you want but atm with the way we live we can't really do a lot of stuff against attack like these.

We can, but most are afraid to step up the game and live with measures that apply to the conditions we face.

I know it's hard to believe but if you look up on the terrorists in Paris they have mostly the same pedigree. Lots of peoples that goes in Syria are already in the backcourt of the society doing shaddy buisness like drugs, weapon dealing or other black market stuff and have already gone to jail. I know it because like I said my town is really close to france and on television we're mostly watching french show/news.

I know, and that's definitely true. Does that mean our justice system should keep giving them the soft approach and let them do whatever they please, like which is the case now in many European countries? No.

Things need to change, we cannot continue being sitting ducks waiting for the next fruitcake that attacks us.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Yeah but that chain of event was the same for the french terrorists. And like I said there's probably more than 500 people in the same situation. Jail at least in my country are more than full, I'm guessing it's the same in Belgium.

I dont agree, we arent in drastic time, you gotta remember that Al Quaida bombed the train/metro in madrid already in 2004, it's been like that since 9/11. You just feel it more now because it's your country that was attacked. And I dont think that giving up on our civil right will benefit to anyone in the long term. And your idea of following people everyday is just not possible to do.

Well if you think that it's better to live in countries like that moves there, I can guarantee you'll be back in Belgium in no times.

Like I said before, there's too many people that went there in europe atm to survey or put them all in jail. I know it's sad and annoying and whatever you want but atm with the way we live we can't really do a lot of stuff against attack like these.

I know it's hard to believe but if you look up on the terrorists in Paris they have mostly the same pedigree. Lots of peoples that goes in Syria are already in the backcourt of the society doing shaddy buisness like drugs, weapon dealing or other black market stuff and have already gone to jail. I know it because like I said my town is really close to france and on television we're mostly watching french show/news.

That's why I'm lost with this because honestly I dont have a solution, I wish I could have one and say look let's do this and it could solve everyhting but I dont and personnaly I'm not ready yet to kill my civil right so that we can stop a bunch of crazy people that was create by our own nations. That's another subject but you gotta realize that the french governement knew about ISIS when they attacked Syria and even support them at first because it was a asset going against Bachar el-Assad, it's only when ISIS start attacking Irakee target that they realize they maybe made a mistake but by then it was too late, it already grew into the hydra we know. Other goverment probably knew about it too in the UN.

You give the impression of someone who is defeated. The terrorists are counting on this sentiment, a defeatist attitude, soft on crime, fear of entering certain neighbourhoods, don't go out at night etc. They are stealing your way of life and you seem willing to just lie down without a fight.

 

[kikie]

I hope you're sarcastic there, Turks send him back on the plane whilst he should have been in Jail:

2010:
Fires with a Kalashnikov on police officers during a failed robbery, gravely injuring one police officer (attempt at murder anyone?). Is convicted to 10 years in prison.

2014:
Is released on parole despite negative advice of the prison director, conditions state that he cant have contact with known undesirables, and has to report to an officer once a month.

2015:
Is arrested in Turkey in June, Turks report it to Belgium on the 26th of June, same day that he was supposed to meet his parole officer. Thus violating the conditions. Turkey sends him back with a plane on the 14th of July, conditions of the extradition are still unclear. The sending back to BE or NL, or the the time when the Belgian embassy was informed haven't been confirmed yet. In any case he already violated his terms in Belgium, so police should have already started tracking the bastard.

Only in August 2015, the order for his arrest is given, and by then the bird has flown.

http://www.nieuwsblad.be/cnt/dmf20160324_02200446

Major fails of the Belgian justice sytem, and the intelligence services if you ask me. I don't think both Geens nor Jambon would have tried to resign today otherwise neither.

Nope, I wasn't been sarcastic at all. I meant it.

First of all, he wasn't extradited by Turkey, they just put him on a plane on his own request. He requested to go to the Netherlands were he arrived last year. Turkey shoudn't have send him back without warning, without being accompanied by police officers or whatever. They just let him go.

About the communication between Turkey and Belgium, this is still under investigation.

Everything else is Belgium's fault. There is no doubt about that. They should not have released him from prison, apparently in 2014. The Belgian justice system (don't know about the intelligence service) messed up big time and they have admit that.

Problem is that you can't stop every terrorist.

 

[TenEightyOne]

Turkey shoudn't have send him back without warning

They say they didn't and that they warned Belgium.

"Turkey has said it arrested and deported Brahim el-Bakraoui last June, warning Belgium he was a "foreign fighter" - but was "ignored".", BBC. They also alerted the Dutch but the Dutch could, they say, find no reason to detain him on arrival.

Additionally; the two suicide bombers were on America's "watch list". Presuming that it isn't an index of gifts I wonder if we'll find out whether or not Belgium were warned of their IDs too.

 

[mister dog]

From what i read, when a wannabe IS fighter is arrested at the Turkish border and to be extradited, if they posses a EU passport they can chose themselves to be flown to any country in the EU.

Bastard chose Holland instead of Belgium, as he probably had a good hunch doing so would have prevented his arrest, and so it happened. Goes to show how good the cooperation was/ is working between EU countries to detain these people.

The idea currently floating around now for a centralized European 'FBI' is a good one, hope it happens as it might prevent things like this.

 

[squadops]

I can just barely fathom the strain you guys have with the migrants, it must be a huge battle. It is not so pronounced here.

 

[kikie]

They say they didn't and that they warned Belgium.

"Turkey has said it arrested and deported Brahim el-Bakraoui last June, warning Belgium he was a "foreign fighter" - but was "ignored".", BBC. They also alerted the Dutch but the Dutch could, they say, find no reason to detain him on arrival.

Additionally; the two suicide bombers were on America's "watch list". Presuming that it isn't an index of gifts I wonder if we'll find out whether or not Belgium were warned of their IDs too.

Yes they did. Ofcourse Turkey said that they warned Belgium. But what they conveniently didn't say is that they didn't warn Belgium immediately. Plus Turkey warned the Belgian embassy which is not the correct protocol. That is what I heard on the Belgian news but I don't knwo if it is correct. They should have warned the intelligence service, not the embassy.

I think that the Belgians know better than the BBC what really happened. The article from the BBC is not entirely correct. Belgium didn't ignore Turkey at all. Belgium wasn't able to react because the Turks warned Belgium after he was deported. That is not ignoring. Too bad that the Belgians didn't react fast enough when they eventually got the warning from Turkey.
They deported him without warning. Turkey warned the Belgium later and that is there huge mistake. Brahim el-Bakraoui was long gone by then. Brahim el-Bakraoui was allowed by the Turks to go alone to the Netherlands without even warning Belgium immediately. If they did, Belgium or the Netherlands could have arrested him when he landed.
After Turkey warned Belgium, Belgium reacted too slowly giving him even more time to disappear.

http://www.hln.be/hln/nl/36484/Aans...acht-na-landing-El-Bakraoui-op-Schiphol.dhtml


Needless to say, Belgium made a bigger mistake by reducing his 12 year sentence to only a little over 4 years. Belgium let him go on parole after a little more than 4 years and he was allowed to leave Belgium for a maximum of 30 days. Can you believe that? But that is what the judges or parole board (or whatever it is called in Belgium) decided. Ofcourse he fled to Syria. Or at least tried to because Turkey arrested him.

The fact that the Netherlands didn't say anything (warn Belgium) about him landing in Schiphol is also under investigation. Not pointing any fingers, just saying what I heard on the news this evening.

About the American watch list; if the Americans knew that the two brothers were potential terrorists and in Belgium they were only considered as criminals, doesn't this say a lot about how bad the Belgian intelligence service is? I think it does.

http://www.hln.be/hln/nl/36484/Aans...-El-Bakraoui-als-potentiele-terroristen.dhtml



I hope the Belgian politicians, police, intelligent service learn something from this tragedy and do something about it. Because they really suck at it. They are too lax!
I feel ashamed to be Belgian.

It seems that I'm promoting an online translator.

From what i read, when a wannabe IS fighter is arrested at the Turkish border and to be extradited, if they posses a EU passport they can chose themselves to be flown to any country in the EU.

Not extradited. He was deported and that is a huge difference.

 

[squadops]

I'm still having a hard time understanding the radical behavior, it's not warranted as we all know, but what is the reason?

And, you should not be ashamed, you are a good people, it's the others who are suspect.

 

[mister dog]

I'm still having a hard time understanding the radical behavior, it's not warranted as we all know, but what is the reason?

Social outcasts that turn from petty/hardened criminals to mass murderers due to extremist muslim ideology. Seeing this life turned out to be crap they go out with a bang and imagine the next one will be better (virgins and all).

And to add to the list of blunders, apparently Salah Abdeslam (the remaining Paris terrorist), who was captured last friday after ordering pizza's, was only questioned for 1 hour leading up to the Brussels attacks 4 days later, and no questions were asked about any upcoming attacks..

http://www.hln.be/hln/nl/957/Binnen...egen-niet-naar-plannen-nieuwe-aanslagen.dhtml

 

[squadops]

Let us find a way to not outcast then eh? Of course there will always be a small element but we can handle that, this crap has to be a bit of our creation don't you think?

Look at it this way, some might be satisfied popping their ass zit, I'd rather not have it to begin with, even if that means I should change my diet.

 

[Johnnypenso]

http://www.cnn.com/2016/03/24/politics/isis-plots-europe-planned-brussels-cell/index.html

Investigators are aware of multiple additional ISIS plots in Europe possibly linked to the Paris and Brussels networks that are in various stages of planning. A combination of electronic intercepts, human sources and database tracking indicates several possible targets had been picked out by the ISIS operatives over the last few months since the Paris attacks, according to U.S. counterterrorism officials.

According to a senior Belgian counter-terrorism official, investigators believe the Brussels ISIS cell were composed of two teams who were planning a larger attack or series of attacks in Belgium at a later date. After police discovered Salah Abdeslam's hiding place on Tuesday last week, investigators believe the second team, including suspected bomb-maker Najim Laachraoui, accelerated their timetable. They believe the second team consisted of the Bakraoui brothers and at least two others now on the run.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

apparently Salah Abdeslam (the remaining Paris terrorist), who was captured last friday after ordering pizza's, was only questioned for 1 hour leading up to the Brussels attacks 4 days later, and no questions were asked about any upcoming attacks

So because he was involved in one attack, he must have had advance knowledge of other attacks?

Why do you think groups like ISIL are so successful in carrying out these attacks? It's because large, co-ordinated efforts easily attract the attention of security services. The less people who know about it, the harder it is for security services to act, and the more likely it will be that the attack succeeds.

Now, there does appear to have been some degree of correlation between the two attacks; one of the bombers in Brussels appears to have been one of the people who planned the Paris attacks. But it looks like he was the bomb-maker, so his presence at both attacks can be explained by his having expert knowledge that was needed in both attacks and which no-one else could provide. Just because he was there, that doesn't mean that Abdeslam had knowledge of the Brussels attacks - why would the terror cell tell him about it and unnecessarily jeopardise their plans, if, say he got caught?

Once again, you make the faulty assumption that because they're violent, they're stupid.

 

[Johnnypenso]

So because he was involved in one attack, he must have had advance knowledge of other attacks?

Why do you think groups like ISIL are so successful in carrying out these attacks? It's because large, co-ordinated efforts easily attract the attention of security services. The less people who know about it, the harder it is for security services to act, and the more likely it will be that the attack succeeds.

Now, there does appear to have been some degree of correlation between the two attacks; one of the bombers in Brussels appears to have been one of the people who planned the Paris attacks. But it looks like he was the bomb-maker, so his presence at both attacks can be explained by his having expert knowledge that was needed in both attacks and which no-one else could provide. Just because he was there, that doesn't mean that Abdeslam had knowledge of the Brussels attacks - why would the terror cell tell him about it and unnecessarily jeopardise their plans, if, say he got caught?

Once again, you make the faulty assumption that because they're violent, they're stupid.

What assumption? That a terrorist who killed over 100 people shouldn't be questioned for more than an hour in 4 days? You shouldn't ask him about upcoming attacks because they're so smart it isn't worth the effort? You actually believe that? You have no idea what he knows and what he doesn't know. The only one making assumptions is you. Maybe if they question him too much they'll find out he was "provoked" into terrorism and feel bad for him? God forbid us if there was a 60 Minutes crew in town when it all happened.

 

[Soundtrack]

Now, there does appear to have been some degree of correlation between the two attacks; one of the bombers in Brussels appears to have been one of the people who planned the Paris attacks. But it looks like he was the bomb-maker, so his presence at both attacks can be explained by his having expert knowledge that was needed in both attacks and which no-one else could provide.

There is more than one common denominator though, the Bakraoui brothers are suspected to have provided support in the Paris attacks too; notably hideouts, weapons and ammunitions. That does not mean Abdeslam was precisely updated on the group future plans, actually considering his “most wanted man” status in the last months, chances are he wasn't.

 

[mister dog]

Another day, another Belgian blunder; apparently the police of Mechelen (city), got a tip last December about Abid Aberkan, a nephew of Salah Abdeslam, that he was radicalizing and they should keep an eye on him.

A rapport was made but the police chief chose to hold the information back. Salah Abdeslam was arrested in his house last week...

http://www.hln.be/hln/nl/36484/Aans...kende-schuiladres-Salah-al-vier-maanden.dhtml

 

[ECGadget]

Well, I asked my dad and apparently the Belgian security and police are around a decade behind in terms of how they operate, which may give some of an explanation as to how this managed to happen. Also, he said that the Belgian Secret Service (or equivalent) pass information on to the MI divisions here in the UK. They then process it and pass it to the Metropolitan Police Service, who then pass it on to the Belgian Police... so by the time all that happens it can be too late for anything. That in itself has to change to prevent any more attacks like this...