F.I.T.T. Rally and Street Tuner Challenge by MCH

[Motor City Hami]

Testing finished!
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?p=7533608#post7533608

I realise all my times are slow, but hopefully the cars are in the right order...
In case you're thinking there's a conspiracy with my drivers choice votes, I promise there isn't!

Well, that made an impact. Thanks for testing Nomis.

All rally tests are now complete. DigitalBaka had the fastest average lap time across all of the testers at 203.716. Congratulations on having the fastest rally car. My Impreza WRC was a very close 2nd at 203.977. Third was really a dog pile with CyKosis, Trackripper and XDesperado all with a 204.6xx.

The rally tunes driver's choice leader is CyKosis. Every tester, except for himself listed Cy in their top three. Quite an accomplishment. My tune was 2nd on driver's choice and DigitalBaka has the third favorite car/tune.

The final street tests are due in by end of day tomorrow, Sunday. The scores for 2nd, 3rd and 4th are so close that it is too close to call at this point.

 

[NEWDRIVER2]

Testing finished!
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?p=7533608#post7533608

I realise all my times are slow, but hopefully the cars are in the right order...
In case you're thinking there's a conspiracy with my drivers choice votes, I promise there isn't!

Wow my cars take 2nd driver choice Thanks Nomis for the rate 👍 you make me happy at list my cars had one tester choose it to be his choice .

 

[CyKosis1973]

Well, that made an impact. Thanks for testing Nomis.

All rally tests are now complete. DigitalBaka had the fastest average lap time across all of the testers at 203.716. Congratulations on having the fastest rally car. My Impreza WRC was a very close 2nd at 203.977. Third was really a dog pile with CyKosis, Trackripper and XDesperado all with a 204.6xx.

The rally tunes driver's choice leader is CyKosis. Every tester, except for himself listed Cy in their top three. Quite an accomplishment. My tune was 2nd on driver's choice and DigitalBaka has the third favorite car/tune.

The final street tests are due in by end of day tomorrow, Sunday. The scores for 2nd, 3rd and 4th are so close that it is too close to call at this point.

Crickey, thanks a lot folks, that's about the best praise I could have received, I'm honoured. I'm really glad you enjoyed the Escort, I love my fast Fords and the Escort Cosworth is my absolute favourite. It was my pleasure to bring it you and I'm terribly relieved to have done it some justice.

After having driven all the other enteries, I felt my car was distinctly middle of the road and that there were 3 or 4 better cars. Perhaps middle of the road was what was required for the contest...

{Cy}

 

[trackripper123]

Crickey, thanks a lot folks, that's about the best praise I could have received, I'm honoured. I'm really glad you enjoyed the Escort, I love my fast Fords and the Escort Cosworth is my absolute favourite. It was my pleasure to bring it you and I'm terribly relieved to have done it some justice.

After having driven all the other enteries, I felt my car was distinctly middle of the road and that there were 3 or 4 better cars. Perhaps middle of the road was what was required for the contest...

{Cy}

I think you may have pipped me to whatever place you're gonna get. It's close but I think it's unlikely that I'm going to overtake you in the standings.

 

[CyKosis1973]

I think you may have pipped me to whatever place you're gonna get. It's close but I think it's unlikely that I'm going to overtake you in the standings.

In the Great Battle between Pompey and London, I think you'll take the tarmac and I'll take the dirt. Across 7 drivers, there was only 0.019 sec between our dirt times () and a much larger 0.288 between the tarmac times.

Well done, Sir, well done 👍👍

{Cy}

 

[Motor City Hami]

Anyone besides DigitalBaka still testing? I want to get this wrapped up in the next day or two.

Thanks,
Keith

 

[DigitalBaka]

I've PMd Hami already about this, but I won't get a chance to finish up the street cars in a timely manner so I will drop off the official results there. I will drive anyone that wants to leave their car up and PM comments.

 

[jtqmopar]

I wouldn't mind a little review DigitalBaka. And, I only got to test 3 of the street cars, so I won't be able to finish with the 40/60; 60/40, Lambo seasonal, 600pp TT, and Cote DT still to do

 

[Motor City Hami]

With all testers complete, I am calling this one final. Thanks to the tuners and testers for braving the tuning of these unfamiliar rally cars. I know that I have a renewed spirit about the rally cars in GT5 after this competition. I enjoyed all of the entries for different reasons, but each had something to offer.

Below are the final points. Congratulations to the poduim winners and the individual achievements along the way.

Tuner Total Points Rally and Street
Motor City Hami 203.950 <- overall winner
XDesperado67 201.258 <- 2nd place overall
CyKosis1973 201.206 <- 3rd place overall
DigitalBaka 200.956
Trackripper123 200.060
jtqmopar 198.450
NEWDRIVER2 193.695
Krenkme 192.034

Individual achievements:
DigitalBaka's Celica produced the fastest Rally Tune
MotorCityHamilton, my own Subaru tune, was surprisingly the fastest Street Tune
CyKosis1973 was the driver's choice favorite in Rally Cars
MotorCityHamilton, my own WRX tune was the driver's choice favorite in Street Cars
Rally Photo Contest was won by CyKosis1973
Street Photo Contest was a tie between DigitalBaka and me
Fastest tester lap time Rally was me.
Fastest tester lap time Street was Ronald6

Thanks again for all of the testers and tuners who participated. I will be in contact shortly to begin distributing prizes.

 

[Ronald6]

Very close second and third place.

Well done everyone.

 

[DigitalBaka]

Congrats and well done Hami, Despy and Cy! Happy to come away with some rally tunes and stoked that one of the fastest is my own. I think these are all worth a go in the rally special event and I hope they help anyone who is having a hard time finding the fun there. I know I was miserable trying to get gold and haven't touched it since.

 

[NEWDRIVER2]

Congrats every one and well done . Great theard Hami 👍 thank you for organizing this shootout . 👍

 

[XDesperado67]

Wow really expected to get bumped off the overall podium especially when DB had to cancel his remaining street car testing. Just amazed that the cars and tunes I did were solid enough to get me that second place overall without gathering any top honors elsewhere.

Great job everyone and especially to MCH for his point system that created a real nail biter of a finish!

 

[trackripper123]

Congrats to prizewinners and others too, and a big thanks to MCH for organising this, a fun shootout it was. 👍

 

[CyKosis1973]

Crickey, 3rd overall and two honourable mentions in Despatches..!! I'd long since given up on the Focus and was, errrr, focusing on the Escort. I feel bad for squeezing DigiB off of the podium, you probably deserved it more. A big thank you to everyone that voted for my photo and for the drive in the Escort, without them, I'd have been in a toe-to-toe scrap with Trackripper.

The Driver's Choice means the most, but I'm utterly delighted to have finally made a convincing podium finish, particularly with only 0.052 between xDee and myself. Well done to everyone else and a big thank you to Hami for laying on the event for us. Same time next year..??

{Cy}

 

[krenkme]

Now that is what I call a major butt kicking. Sorry for wasting the testers time and I'll pay for your medical bills after driving my Rally car

Great job to all the winners, and others. You all made some great cars. And a BIG THANK YOU[size] to MCH fot thinking up this shootout and being a great host.

Tuners, testers, you all did great. Good job

 

[Motor City Hami]

Thanks guys. I am happy that everyone had fun. I already have some thoughts on my next competition.

Also, I am posting my 2nd and 3rd fastest rally entries in my garage. Take a quick look if you are interested in a few more rally tunes.

 

[Motor City Hami]

Congratulations again to everyone. Let me know who is interested in their prizes.

Volunteer Testers:
Nomis & Ronald - Thanks for testing and if you ever need anything do not hesitate to ask.

Fastest tester lap Eiger short:
Ronald - Thanks for testing and if you ever need anything do not hesitate to ask.

Fastest G Trail lap:
MCH - I will reward myself with free beer.

Tuner Rank:
1. MCH - I will reward myself again with more beer.
2. XDesperado - LSD tunes posted
3. CyKosis - LSD tunes posted
4. DigitalBaka - Thanks for participating and congrats on building the fastest Rally tune.
5. Trackripper - Subaru sent

Let me know who wants their prizes and who was just in it for the fun of it. Thanks again to all who participated.

Keith

 

[XDesperado67]

@MCH instead of a car why don't you see if you can fine tune my LSD settings for both my entries (you seem to have mastered that unlike myself) then reward yourself with a couple more beers for hosting a great Shootout!

 

[Motor City Hami]

@MCH instead of a car why don't you see if you can fine tune my LSD settings for both my entries (you seem to have mastered that unlike myself) then reward yourself with a couple more beers for hosting a great Shootout!

Deal.

And, I found a use for our Rally Cars if anyone is interested. https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?p=7525538#post7525538

 

[Ronald6]

A 999,999¢ car? Sweet! Now I only owe you about 9mil for all the cars you gifted me leading up to this Shootout.

Driving these great cars is reward enough.

Perhaps a new final drive for your WRX so I can complete my review of your car?

 

[Motor City Hami]

A 999,999¢ car? Sweet! Now I only owe you about 9mil for all the cars you gifted me leading up to this Shootout.

Driving these great cars is reward enough.

Perhaps a new final drive for your WRX so I can complete my review of your car?

Sure. Final Drive at 4.250 seems to be a good all around track setting. It will redline on High Speed Ring and Fugi and be just a little tall for Grand Valley and Deep Forest. Car is back on share.

 

[CyKosis1973]

@MCH instead of a car why don't you see if you can fine tune my LSD settings for both my entries (you seem to have mastered that unlike myself) then reward yourself with a couple more beers for hosting a great Shootout!

Damn yer eyes man..!! That was going to be my request. For the Escort at least, don't worry about the Focus, I'm going to push that off the north face of the Eiger

{Cy}

 

[XDesperado67]

Damn yer eyes man..!! That was going to be my request. For the Escort at least, don't worry about the Focus, I'm going to push that off the north face of the Eiger

{Cy}

 

[trackripper123]

Hami, could I have the '05 Subaru Impreza, the one you can RM. I would normally just buy it myself, but currently penniless as I was trying to get that trophy... Thanks again!

 

[Motor City Hami]

Hami, could I have the '05 Subaru Impreza, the one you can RM. I would normally just buy it myself, but currently penniless as I was trying to get that trophy... Thanks again!

Sent. If you wanted one that has been race modded I can send one of those too? Let me know.

 

[Motor City Hami]

At the request of XDesperado, I re-ran this tune with some changes to the LSD. The challenge that I found while driving this tune was getting it to turn in well and then to rotate around the center or apex. I do think that the LSD settings were a large part of this handling issue. Two of the rear settings weren't too far off 15/15/30. I believe that the LSD Decel number of 30 is one of the causes. Higher LSD Decel numbers will make a car more stable on corner entry and coasting around the center. On dirt, we spend a bit more time coasting around the center than while on tarmac. I lowered the rear number way down to 5, but had to move it back up to 9 to keep it balanced.

As for the front LSD at 40/30/40, two settings were the challenge in my opinion. Let's start with decel at 40. This is the same issue as described above where higher numbers provide a more stable condition and in GT5 that is understeer on entry and mid corner. The LSD initial torque at 40 was a bit high. I look at initial torque as a setting that affects the power of LSD accel and decel. I try to get the accel and decel setting set for a good, balanced corner behavior, then play with initial torque. LSD IT to me simply adds oversteer or understeer throughout the corner. I will say that I didn't see much difference between settings from 12 to 25.

My LSD recommendation:
Front 15/35/5
Rear 12/15/9

I went one second faster than my previous test of this car with only these LSD changes applied. This new lap time of 2:00.838 just edges DigitalBaka's #1 time from my test laps.

The Outlaw Motorsports Garage tunes
Mitsubishi CZ-3 Tarmac Rally Car, "O-Hacchibakku II"
Some time back MotorCityHamilton started talking about hosting some sort of Rally/Street car shootout. Well his time in the F.I.T.T. calendar finally arrived. With a new scoring method that includes a variety of bonus points for certain combinations of the classic cars Ol'Harvey Wallbanger here was eager to get busy testing. Well despite some rather interesting and or downright scary cars from the 80s, the Wallbanger just wasn't satisfied with their performance, even when they provided bonus points. So he decided to look at some of the newer cars. Some immediate improvement in performance was there but the cars seemed to lack a bit of soul. A careful check of the eligible cars showed the CZ-3 Tarmac concept cars. Now here was something with a bit more character. Unfortunately it seemed Ol'Harvey's extensive garage was short the Rally version, luckily MCH was able to provide one for the Wallbanger to test. Very good performance to start with sealed the deal as far as Ol'Harvey was concerned and he proclaimed them "O-Hacchibakku" or "Great Hachback" in English. Go ahead and grab your own set of these and let Ol'Harvey Wallbanger and the Outlaw Motorsports Garage help you turn them into "O-Hacchibakku", I guarantee you won't be disappointed!

Source and Parts list:
Buy from: Used Car Dealership
Paintjob: Stock
Wheels: Stock
Aerodynamic Kit: None
Weight Reduction: None
Window Weight Reduction: No
Carbon Hood: No
Chassis reinforcement: No
ECU Tuning: No
Engine Tuning: None
Intake Manifold: -
Air Filter: -
Exhaust Manifold: -
Catalytic Converter: -
Exhaust: Stock
Turbo Kit: None
Transmission: Fully Customizable
Clutch: -
Flywheel: -
LSD: Adjustable
Center Differential: Torque Sensing
Drive Shaft: -
Suspension: Fully Customizable Kit
Tires: Dirt

The Tune
Aerodynamics: 5/6
Ballast: 0kg at 0
Power Limiter: 100.0%
Transmission - process as follows;
1) Set to default
2) Set Final Gear to 5.500
3) Set Top Speed to 112mph
4) Set gears as follows;
1st=2.418,
2nd=1.975,
3rd=1.414,
4th=1.071,
5th=0.800,
5) Set Final gear to 5.500
Should display an indicated top speed of 116mph in upper right corner.
LSD Front Initial 40, Acceleration 30, Braking 40
LSD Rear Initial 15, Acceleration 15, Braking 30
Torque Sensing Center Differential Front 50, Rear 50
Suspension
Camber Angle Front 3.2, Rear 1.8
Toe Angle Front 0.00, Rear +0.30
Ride Height Front -45, Rear -25
Spring Rate Front 12.0, Rear 9.0
Dampers (Extension) Front 1, Rear 1
Dampers (Compression) Front 1, Rear 1
Anti-Roll Bars Front 7, Rear 7
Brakes Front 3, Rear 3

The car has 500PP, weighs 1,200Kg with a 55/45 front/rear weight distribution, has 330HP and produces 394ft-lb torque@3,500rpm with a 7,000rpm redline.

Notes: Car is tuned for the Eiger Nordwand G Trail (Reverse) track. This is strictly a gravel tune!

Note 2: The Wallbanger was running low 2:01s consistently while tuning with a best lap of 2:00.284

Enjoy the ride and as Harvey Wallbanger always says...
Drive hard and have fun!

Reviews and/or additional photos

 

[XDesperado67]

@MCH I'll make a note in the tune with your LSD settings. Thanks!👍👍
Oh and for the record I know the decel settings were fairly high but I was trying to stabilize the car on the gravel for an easier drive, obviously didn't work as well as hoped.

 

[Motor City Hami]

When asked to peak at the LSD settings of this car, I thought, "this is a tall order - this was the fastest street tune I drove in the competition and X wants me to find more speed?" I only made one chage to the LSD. I moved the rear LSD decel to 10 and found much more at corner entry. Went 0.3 seconds faster with just this setting.

I also tried the AYC instead of the LSD and set it at 50. I did get a few quicker lap times, but it is much harder to drive. Turn in is incredible but it snaps around the apex and if you don't begin returning the steering wheel to center quickly enough, it will 4 wheel slide through the exit. I think the AYC controller would be awesome on a more open track.

This is still one of my favorite tunes from the competition.

The Outlaw Motorsports Garage tunes
Mitsubishi CZ-3 Tarmac '01, "O-Hacchibakku"
Some time back MotorCityHamilton started talking about hosting some sort of Rally/Street car shootout. Well his time in the F.I.T.T. calendar finally arrived. With a new scoring method that includes a variety of bonus points for certain combinations of the classic cars Ol'Harvey Wallbanger here was eager to get busy testing. Well despite some rather interesting and or downright scary cars from the 80s, the Wallbanger just wasn't satisfied with their performance, even when they provided bonus points. So he decided to look at some of the newer cars. Some immediate improvement in performance was there but the cars seemed to lack a bit of soul. A careful check of the eligible cars showed the CZ-3 Tarmac concept cars. Now here was something with a bit more character. Unfortunately it seemed Ol'Harvey's extensive garage was short the Rally version, luckily MCH was able to provide one for the Wallbanger to test. Very good performance to start with sealed the deal as far as Ol'Harvey was concerned and he proclaimed them "O-Hacchibakku" or "Great Hachback" in English. Go ahead and grab your own set of these and let Ol'Harvey Wallbanger and the Outlaw Motorsports Garage help you turn them into "O-Hacchibakku". We guarantee you won't be disappointed!

Source and Parts list:
Buy from: Used Car Dealership
Paintjob: Red Metallic (Paint by Mitsubishi)
Wheels: Rays Volk Racing RE30 (Bright Chrome finish)
Aerodynamic Kit: None
Weight Reduction: Stage 3
Window Weight Reduction: Yes
Carbon Hood: No
Chassis reinforcement: No
ECU Tuning: No
Engine Tuning: None
Intake Manifold: Stock
Air Filter: Stock
Exhaust Manifold: Stock
Catalytic Converter: Stock
Exhaust: Sports
Turbo Kit: None
Transmission: Fully Customizable
Clutch: Twin-Plate
Flywheel: Semi-Racing
LSD: Adjustable
Center Differential: Torque Sensing
Drive Shaft: Carbon
Suspension: Fully Customizable Kit
Tires: Sports Hard

The Tune
Aerodynamics: -/-
Ballast: 92kg at +50
Power Limiter: 96.2%
Transmission - process as follows;
1) Set to default
2) Set Final Gear to 5.500
3) Set Top Speed to 112mph
4) Set gears as follows;
1st=2.708,
2nd=2.212,
3rd=1.585,
4th=1.201,
5th=0.959,
5) Set Final gear to 4.600
Should display an indicated top speed of 125mph in upper right corner.
LSD Front Initial 10, Acceleration 10, Braking 15
LSD Rear Initial 20, Acceleration 20, Braking 40
Torque Sensing Center Differential Front 50, Rear 50
Suspension
Camber Angle Front 3.6, Rear 2.6
Toe Angle Front 0.00, Rear 0.00
Ride Height Front 0, Rear -25
Spring Rate Front 11.6, Rear 9.2
Dampers (Extension) Front 7, Rear 3
Dampers (Compression) Front 6, Rear 2
Anti-Roll Bars Front 3, Rear 6
Brakes Front 0, Rear 6

The car has 450PP, weighs 1,114Kg with a 50/50 front/rear weight distribution, has 242HP and produces 241ft-lb torque@3,100rpm with a 7,600rpm redline.

Notes: Car is tuned for the Eiger Nordwand Short track. You'll need to adjust the Final Gear on tracks where higher speeds are possible.

Note 2: The Wallbanger found that letting the rear end slip out slightly in the right hand sweeper at the bottom of the course prior to the the tunnel produced his best laps. For most of the rest of the course you want to keep the rear tucked in with only very minimal or no slip in the first sectors hairpins. Should run very low 1:13s no problem and Ol'Harvey Wallbanger here has managed a best lap of 1:12.736.

Enjoy the ride and as Harvey Wallbanger always says...
Drive hard and have fun!

Reviews and/or additional photos

 

[Motor City Hami]

On request from CyKosis, I reran this Escort Rally tune with a few changes to the drive train. I already liked this car's handling alot and listed it in my top three on driver's choice. This tune really only had a couple of small handling issues. I wanted more turn in. It also has that mid-corner sidesays dirt drift. It doesn't have that aggressive dirt drive off the corner.

One change made the largest difference. I changed the torque distribution from 40/60 to 50/50 and it came to life from mid-corner off. I could get really aggressive through the downhill corner combos and I didn't need to lift at all in the all important turn 5 heading up the hill. This one change made me like this car even more than I had before.

I tried some other LSD settings but only found small gains. Cykosis' settings were: LSD front 8/16/8 and LSD rear 8/16/8. I decreased LSD decel on both ends of the car just a hair to get a little more aggressive turn in. I also increaded the front Initial and Accel in an effort to get the front to drag a little around the apex. I have found that on dirt, higer front LSD settings and more loose rear settings allows the front to drag a little and the rear to rotate a little. The bigger you make this split, the more the effect. It is a great tuning tool for changing the car's corner balance.

My LSD settings:
Front 10/18/7
Rear 8/14/7

Like I said, I still really like this car.

Escort Rally Car '98
Ford Focus ST170 '03

And they're up, enjoy, and remember to keep them wheels straight whilst you're braking in the Escort. You've been warned...

{Cy}