F1 Returns to USA - COTA - Bring on 2013!!

[prisonermonkeys]

Look at how well originality made the Hungaroring, for example. Yas Marina, while looking like a fantasy world, hasn't got a single place to pass. And once you emasculate a circuit like the Circuit de Catalunya, there's even less chances to overtake. Although you might think there's straight plagiarism in developing a circuit with one's favorite corners, they aren't likely to be inch-perfect rip-offs of the same thing.

Of course, there's my skepticism that this thing actually gets built in this economy, although this is one case I'd prefer to be proven wrong.

Yes, but there seems to be some kind of belief that if you just do a cut-and-paste job and run Maggotts/Becketts/Chapel into Pouhon and Istanbul's Turn 8, then you're guaranteed a brilliant circuit. Except that those corners work because of the characteristics of the circuit; how would Pouhon feel if it were in the middle of a high-downforce circuit? Completely differently, and there's no guarantee that it will be any better. Therefore, I think it's better to come up with something unique and original. Take inspiration from other circuits, yes, but don't just blatantly rip them off.

I could maybe understand copy-paste designs if we were talking about somewhere like Shanghai, where the circuit is built on flat land reclaimed from wetlands. But Austin is unique among the modern era of circuits: it is clearly being designed by racers rather than some faceless bureaucratic machine. In the "Wind Tunnel" interview, Hellmund said the idea behind it is "a true, natural terrain road course, kind of like in the ‘60s". Austin presents possibly the best opportunity to create a modern classic. Why squander that by simply plagiarising what has gone before?

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Circuit layout

 

[NapoleonMikey]

Id like to see an artistic rendering of the track with where the elevation points are. But from the basic track map the right side reminds me of Virgina International Raceway with the sweeping esses and with the elevation changes it should be just as fun to drive through as the VIR esses are. The Left side reminds me of the typical Tilke track with lots of angles. But that picture dosnt tell us to much of how the track will be to race on sadly.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Id like to see an artistic rendering of the track with where the elevation points are.

Same. Because I suspect that double-hairpin is an uphill sequence, kind of like what you'd expect to find on the Rallye Monte Carlo. After all, we know the Start/Finish straight will be the highest point of the circuit, and that you'll be able to see "most" of the track from there. So it stands to reason that the circuit is in a natural bowl - and that the northrn section is the lowest point, or one of the lowest points. With that in mind, I can see those hairpins being a switchback up a steep gradient.

Also, look at the shape of turn 6 and turn 11. Remind you of anything? Like, say, Yas Marina? The shape is there, but the chicane before the hairpin isn't - almost as if Tilke is extending an upraised middle finger in Abu Dhabi's general direction.

 

[McLaren]

Circuit layout

That's...an interesting design. So, now when can I purchase my tickets?

 

[Ardius]

Looks like the Hungaroring, Hockenheimring, Paul Ricard circuit and Le Mans mixed together.

 

[Alex.]

Beckets and Maggots are there too.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Looks like the Hungaroring, Hockenheimring, Paul Ricard circuit and Le Mans mixed together.

Is that a good or a bad thing?

 

[Ardius]

Thats up to you.

It just looks like the same style of circuit as those, quite twisty, some reasonably long straight sections and some high speed stuff thrown in. Without elevation we can't tell so much of course, but it looks like its going to be a good circuit to drive but maybe not for overtaking. We will have to see.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

it looks like its going to be a good circuit to drive but maybe not for overtaking. We will have to see.

I'm counting three major overtaking points and one possible. Into turn 1, turn 11 and turn 12 look good for it, and maybe into turn 20 if you're close enough behind the other guy.

 

[Akmuq]

Looks nice. I like corners 16, 17 and 18. They are kind of like Istanbul's turn 8. Lots of overtaking on that track as well, I would say. It looks pretty fast as well.

 

[Cap'n Jack]

Here's a 3D map of the track. The climb up to turn 1 seems pretty intense but perhaps the angle is playing with my eyes, so with that in mind I'm not sure on the accuracy.

 

[Akmuq]

That elevation is mad. You will get a good few of turn 1 which looks like an overtaking opportunity.

 

[Seismica]

Turn 1: Very safe... Could be good but it looks like it's not going to create overtakes. The steepness of the gradient is deceiving (It's exaggerated 5x to show the gradient changes).

Turn 2, 3, 4, 5, 6: Looks like an attempt to copy the start of Silverstone. Turn 2 is a quick right hander, probably flat, leading to an imitation Maggots/Becketts. So far looks like a good drivers circuit with good test of the driver and car.

Turn 7, 8, 9, 10: Turn 7 may be a bit tight, but 8, 9 and 10 open up. Turn 10 is downhill too, which provides a run down into the turn 11 hairpin. I can see overtaking here, which depends on the exit the drivers get from turns 7 and 8. But Like I said, turn 7 may be a bit too slow/tight and drivers may not be able to get a good run without running in the dirty air of the car infront. Or maybe that makes it better... We'll have to see a race there to be sure.

Turn 11, 12: Turn 11 a possible overtaking point. Turn 12 could be good, but we'll have to wait and see. The straight doesn't look quite long enough to give a clear advantage to those running lower downforce. Turn 12 reminds me of turn 1 at Bahrain in that it looks good on paper, but no overtaking ever seems to happen there.

Turn 13, 14, 15: Boring. They did this to allow the spectators in the grandstands to see the cars go around more than one corner. Just seems like a pointless section to me, they should cut straight past turn 15, turn 14 should be a left hander heading into turn 16.

Turn 16, 17, 18: Doesn't looks that challenging. From the overhead track map is looks flat. But the track map is decieving, it could be tighter than it appears.

Turn 19, 20: Turn 19 looks fun for the drivers, but turn 20 is just plain boring. On a good day we might see overtaking there if drivers get a good run, but I doubt it.

It looks fairly good, but I doubt it will become a 'classic' on the calendar.

That elevation is mad. You will get a good few of turn 1 which looks like an overtaking opportunity.

It's exaggerated, as can be read from this image of the Indian GP layout.

"5x superelevated"

 

[Only_in_f1]

So T1 is just like the A1 ring... but a left turn?

 

[Alex.]

Much sharper and steeper. T15 to T5 looks absolutely immense.

 

[NapoleonMikey]

Track looks good. Plenty of elevation change from the past F1 tracks being built. Going through the first half of the track should be fun to drive but offers little passing in F1. The back half is more technical and will provide a few places to pass.

Turn 13, 14, 15: Boring. They did this to allow the spectators in the grandstands to see the cars go around more than one corner. Just seems like a pointless section to me, they should cut straight past turn 15, turn 14 should be a left hander heading into turn 16.

For an F1 track I would agree because almost no passing takes place in a section like that. Because the Track will be used for other racing events too such as the ALMS (hopefully) the less aero dependent cars like GT will have some good fights through there I would think.

But 15 might throw people off wide with undeersteer if there not paying attention thanks to the uphill nature of it. And from the top down map it dosnt look like there will be a lot of run off room if that happens.

 

[astrosdude91]

Interesting layout!

How about this. If this course was already built and on the 2010 calander, who do you think would be strongest here?

 

[BlacqueJacques]

At first glance it looks interesting; glad U.S. back on F1 schedule!

 

[Ian Poole]

I like to think of it as Virginia Raceway like with Infineon's elevation changes

 

[yeti]

Looks quite interesting - then again Bahrain looks interesting...

We shall find out what happens in the race!!!

C.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

It's exaggerated, as can be read from this image of the Indian GP layout.

"5x superelevated"

Are you sure? That's an image of the Jaypee Group Circuit in India, not Austin. I think that someone like Tilke - an architect, who is therefore very precise in what he does - would include a note for exaggerated elevation if it was in the image. He hasn't.

Besides, we know from the organisers in India that the elevation through the first turn is fourteen metres. We also know from Tavo Hellmund that the elevation through Austin's first turn is forty metres. Based on the two images, it's no stretch to envision the three-dimensional one as being accurate and not elevated.

 

[BlacqueJacques]

Who will be the next American to race in F1; and which season from now?

Please no Danica Patrick responses

 

[Seismica]

Interesting layout!

How about this. If this course was already built and on the 2010 calander, who do you think would be strongest here?

The Red Bull, it would demolish the field in the 1st and 3rd sectors.

Are you sure? That's an image of the Jaypee Group Circuit in India, not Austin. I think that someone like Tilke - an architect, who is therefore very precise in what he does - would include a note for exaggerated elevation if it was in the image. He hasn't.

I think he does all of these images to the same spec. That Austin pic has some information missing, it looks like an early draft of the circuit, I suspect there will be minor changes before the final plans are together.

Besides, we know from the organisers in India that the elevation through the first turn is fourteen metres. We also know from Tavo Hellmund that the elevation through Austin's first turn is forty metres. Based on the two images, it's no stretch to envision the three-dimensional one as being accurate and not elevated.

It is accurate, just not to scale. If you look at the length of the straight in relation to the elevation change you will see something is not quite right as the elevation is around 1/5 of the length of the home straight. Also if you look at the angle of elevation, it's nearing 40-45 degrees at it's steepest point. Eau Rouge is only a 19 degree incline, just to compare. I think it is 5x superelevated as the other picture highlights.

 

[Ardius]

Who will be the next American to race in F1; and which season from now?

Please no Danica Patrick responses

No one is likely at the moment, but maybe Alexander Rossi in a couple of years. JR Hildebrand looked promising at the young driver tests last year, not sure anyone is really looking at him though.

Other than that, for Americans to really get into F1, America really needs to improve its open wheel series and market them better. Quite simply its too expensive for most American drivers to progress to F1 as they have to run in a European series to get noticed. F1 teams don't follow US series as they are not very popular and don't appear to display a known talent level for teams to judge. If you were a young driver, would you run locally and earn money in NASCAR or would you attempt to struggle with a high chance of failure in Europe?
That said, there are plenty of South Americans in various levels of motorsport in Europe, so one does wonder if America really needs to have a brilliant junior ladder at all and simply needs some successful legendary drivers of Fittipaldi and Senna fame?
But thats also an issue too, I don't imagine there is much young fandom for F1 drivers in America. NASCAR is the big popular series, even Indycar probably doesn't inspire many of the younger generations. This however is a problem of motorsport in general too, its easier to become involved in other sports as all you need is a ball for basketball, etc. But for motorsport, you need a lot of money even just for karting. Its not something many people can connect with, whereas almost everyone has played general sports when they were younger.

 

[astrosdude91]

I for one would like to see Danica in Formula One! All we need is an F1 car sponsored by GoDaddy.com, and were ready to go! Plus we really need a female in Formula One again.

 

[Alex.]

She's not good enough. Having a woman for the sake of having a woman in F1 is pointless and denies seats to drivers who otherwise deserved them. That said, it happens all the time. My friend beat Kubica all season long in the Formula Renault but because Kubica was Renault backed, guess who got to F1. Then he was kicked out of the ASM Mercedes F3 team because Ron Dennis selected that seat to be Hamilton's. It's the way of racing.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Danica's hopeless. She's decent on oval circuits, but terrible on road and street courses. Unfonrtunately, if a woman is going to succeed in Formula 1, she needs to be at a higher level that some of her contemporaries when she enters. Lucas di Grassi was third in GP2 last year and placed in the top five for three years running. That's a pretty respectable resume (even if he's never won a GP2 title), but any woman who enters the sport is going to have to do even better than that because the hopes and dreams of her gender in the sport will be riding on her back. Danica Patrick doesn't even come close - she'd be a waste of a perfectly-good race seat.

 

[Peter]

wrong thread

 

[Antti-san]

Reminds me of Road America...