Fanatec Announcements: CSW V2 Reviews Out

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K_Soze
I still prefer rFactor2 FFB. It is the most realistic FFB I have driven. It compares to what you can feel on Cruden professional simulator (impressive when you think about the price difference between a CSR Elite and a "Leo Bodnar like wheel".
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Im still not exactly sure what the Leo Bodnar types wheels are offering besides dislocate your shoulder strength.
 
fatkrakr
Im still not exactly sure what the Leo Bodnar types wheels are offering besides dislocate your shoulder strength.
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The key is stall torque.
It has so much power that you can´t keep it still, and thus will continue to provide you with feedback from the road. Even if you lower the overall strength it can still give you better feedback, as the motor isn´t as easily overwhelmed by the power of yourself that tries to keep the wheel straight.

Of course because these are serious devices and not (by comparison) toys, like the Frex, ECCI, CSW and down the line, you have to keep in mind the normal safety measures as you would in real life. So if a crash happens... hands of the wheel or risk injury.

So yeah, it's not the brute strength but more the fact that having enough reserve power will result in a more accurate force feedback. Especially since games with the current wheels as from Frex/ECCI and down are often close to the limit of clipping their output signals, just so that the wheels feel heavy enough. Either that or the strength is increased via the wheel's drivers or on-wheel menu to the point where the motors (almost) start to clip.
So it's all about a clean no-clipping experience with one on one strength and FFB reproduction compared to their real counterparts.
 
K_Soze
I still prefer rFactor2 FFB. It is the most realistic FFB I have driven. It compares to what you can feel on Cruden professional simulator (impressive when you think about the price difference between a CSR Elite and a "Leo Bodnar like wheel".
Click to expand...

I have not had much luck with RF2, only tried the demo, same with RF1, but many people swear by it, so I have no doubt that with the right settings the feeling on the FFB can be spectacular and way above what any console and console game can provide.
 
Cote Dazur
I have not had much luck with RF2, only tried the demo, same with RF1, but many people swear by it, so I have no doubt that with the right settings the feeling on the FFB can be spectacular and way above what any console and console game can provide.
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It depends a lot about what you are driving :)
But I like a lot the Asseto Corsa tech demo.
 
LogiForce
It has so much power that you can´t keep it still, and thus will continue to provide you with feedback from the road.
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This is what I didn't understand when watching a video of someone using a Bodnar wheel. It seemed very unrealistic, fighting with user even while on straights. In general it seemed to be a poorly formed experience, but maybe I was just watching the wrong video of it.
 
LeMansAid
This is what I didn't understand when watching a video of someone using a Bodnar wheel. It seemed very unrealistic, fighting with user even while on straights. In general it seemed to be a poorly formed experience, but maybe I was just watching the wrong video of it.
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It depends on what game was played. GT5 fights with me constantly on the CSW, while pCARS feels a lot better and more intuitive. So it really depends on the game and how the FFB is generated by the game code.

Can I ask which video you saw that had you raise your eyebrows?
 
It was a really long time ago, and I can't remember. Might have even been through a GTP link actually. I know the GT5 wobble, and it seemed quite different.

Edit: Just made my lazy self check out a couple of videos quickly, and they seemed quite different to what I remember. Maybe the one I saw was poorly set up.
 
I didn't have a mail either. I thought maybe he did an inquiry via mail to Fanatec about the next batch. Which seems to be every 30th of the month.
Also if this one is again a Euro only batch, you can bet your ass on the fact that the December 30th batch will be a N-American batch again. Than January 30th (a day before Chinese New Year on the 31st) again a Euro batch. Than a delayed or smaller batch for N-America again in February/March... and so on.

I fear I might be in the March/April batch as I ordered a week before the shifter went on sale. Looking at the current production rates that is.

I wish there was some kind of 'pre-order counter' on the website, a counter that counts down until your unit gets ship. So... 'x amount of people waiting for their order before you'.
If they had that we would be more patient as we could estimate when we would get our shifters, as well as the average size of a batch.
 
LogiForce
I wish there was some kind of 'pre-order counter' on the website, a counter that counts down until your unit gets ship. So... 'x amount of people waiting for their order before you'.
If they had that we would be more patient as we could estimate when we would get our shifters, as well as the average size of a batch.
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A counter would be nice, but just an email estimating where we are in the preorder status and an approximative ETA would be appreciated. Should not be too hard, taking in consideration that we have placed the order last summer already.
 
Cote Dazur
A counter would be nice, but just an email estimating where we are in the preorder status and an approximative ETA would be appreciated. Should not be too hard, taking in consideration that we have placed the order last summer already.
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A counter would take less work for the employees than to keep every single one of us updated individually.
Ths because the website is already hooked up to the warehouse's database. So checking order number and item number as well as shipment status would be easy. You could than easily make a programming statement in the website code that filters out the remaining orders and show it on the site's product page as a counter for the amount of open pre-orders. Plus also add a personal counter on your order page showing you where you're standing in line. ;)

So while I see that you value a personal approach, I think its not efficient enough for this day and age go about it in that manner.
 
Cote Dazur
I agree with you, I just did not realized it would be easier with a counter.
We want a counter. LOL
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Yeah, besides... I wouldn't want a mail every single day from Fanatec with just the content that in escense boils down to "Not yet!". You would receive it so much from summer till now that you'd stop to check it and end up missing these words...



Nah, better a counter I can check at my own leisure when I want, as often as I want. With just a mail saying my package is ready for shipment and here is your tracking number.
 
fatkrakr
Im still not exactly sure what the Leo Bodnar types wheels are offering besides dislocate your shoulder strength.
Click to expand...

Well, they are much more capable of reproducing the full range of forces at more accurate and realistic levels. The only real problem is that most FFB sims don't provide the proper ratio of forces to the wheel, because they are designed to work with much weaker wheels, so all the forces are condensed down to compensate. This is more easily gotten 'round with PC sims since they usually have a lot of adjustment range in the .ini. I noticed this a lot with my CSW mods; when I'm running at 40V, the wheel is capable of producing over 10N•m of torque, but it is waay too strong when playing GT5 or other console games when just steering, since the game has that effect "turned up" to compensate for weaker stock wheels.
 
No official Fanatec support in GT6 as per latest info dump. G27 emulation should still work since G27 is still supported.
 
eKretz
Well, they are much more capable of reproducing the full range of forces at more accurate and realistic levels. The only real problem is that most FFB sims don't provide the proper ratio of forces to the wheel, because they are designed to work with much weaker wheels, so all the forces are condensed down to compensate. This is more easily gotten 'round with PC sims since they usually have a lot of adjustment range in the .ini. I noticed this a lot with my CSW mods; when I'm running at 40V, the wheel is capable of producing over 10N•m of torque, but it is waay too strong when playing GT5 or other console games when just steering, since the game has that effect "turned up" to compensate for weaker stock wheels.
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I am still looking for the "next gen" wheel : a wheel which receives torque input from simulation and returns a wheel angle. When simulations send position requests, every different wheel will produce a different torque in order to reach the wanted position.
 
SMH, my CSW motors just gave out. FFB is choppy as hell and the wheel takes forever to get back to center. Makes a nice grinding noise as well.
 
paskowitz
SMH, my CSW motors just gave out. FFB is choppy as hell and the wheel takes forever to get back to center. Makes a nice grinding noise as well.
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That sucks. I hope you're back behind a working wheel soon, mate.

I guess the Chineering of Mabuchi isn't good enough after all, even with the new and improved batch of motors. They just don't last it seems. :(
Hopefully Fanatec will make an upgrade kit to Germaneering Buhler motors. Which would justify their "
Fine Germaneering®" statement on their website better as well in my opinion. Sure they are more expensive, but they are better build for the application. As there is an whole topic or two about already on this forum.

So yeah, either that or... eKretz, where are you with those better aftermarket motors when we need them? :sly:


Personally I too already heard the first signs of trouble again from my CSW. When I keep my wheel still at certain angles there is this high pitched beep tone from the motors. Which was something that got worse on my beta base as well, and in the end the a lot of power was lost in those motors.
Recently I had to grab my T500 again as well for some pCARS related comparisons, and the difference in feel and strength made me go back to the T500 once again. Dropped a real 35cm (flat) steering wheel on there, and it's been a bliss so far.
I hate to say it, but I seriously doubt in the quality of these motors for this current application. They might be cheap and perform well new, and since motors are easy to replace they got big in that market. However, the demands on the motors are different for steering wheels in my opinion. And nobody wishes to swap motors every 3 months I reckon.

So yeah, here's to hoping that Fanatec will in the course of next year find a better motor manufacturer, preferably a German one doing the Germaneering as well. Cause funny enough, the only Chineering product in that wheel is what seems to be causing issues most of the time. Even though reports seem to have lessened over the course of time in the past year.
 


Video of my issue. Lets hope my good luck streak with Fanatec customer service continues.

All else fails, I will replace the motors myself... where is that thread again?
 
paskowitz


Video of my issue. Lets hope my good luck streak with Fanatec customer service continues.

All else fails, I will replace the motors myself... where is that thread again?
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This one...
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/thre...csr-elite-wheel-owners-motor-mod-poll.280570/

Or this main Fanatec modding one...
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/fanatec-csw-csr-elite-modders-thread.274631/


@0:24... that squeak sound is what I have now again with my retail base too. Had it with the beta base as well, and it got worse and worse.

Doesn't sound good at all though. At first I thought the ball bearings of the pulley or the steering wheel axis were shot, but when you turned it down it was bloody obvious the motors were shot.
 
eKretz
Well, they are much more capable of reproducing the full range of forces at more accurate and realistic levels. The only real problem is that most FFB sims don't provide the proper ratio of forces to the wheel, because they are designed to work with much weaker wheels, so all the forces are condensed down to compensate. This is more easily gotten 'round with PC sims since they usually have a lot of adjustment range in the .ini. I noticed this a lot with my CSW mods; when I'm running at 40V, the wheel is capable of producing over 10N•m of torque, but it is waay too strong when playing GT5 or other console games when just steering, since the game has that effect "turned up" to compensate for weaker stock wheels.
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Pretty sure with the ballscrew w/antibacklash Wheels, the benefit is immediacy and accuracy. Actually, what even the weakest of these "direct drive" (my description, not theirs) wheels cope with in terms of forces is quite impressive considering what they are effectively doing is making a wheel that does not magnify its ffb force by using belts, gears, or any other such engineering trick to put out more force than the motor is capable of.
Think of it this way, what Leo, Frex, and ECCI do with their wheels is compete performance wise with Logitec, TM, and Fanatec. If all of them were racecars, the latter group of belt driven wheels have the most (and least) advanced axels coming off of the motor and transmission and are tuned as such (to compensate for the ratio of the drive axel, linkage, and gears in the transmission. What the Antibacklash "direct drive" group of wheels do is effectively hook a motor up to each or both rear wheels and then have the driver opening and shutting carburetor jets manually.
I suppose the engineering tricks of the belt and gear driven wheels will have more brut performance which is nice but imprecise if all else was equal. But, if you could somehow match the brute performance of the belt driven wheels without the slop that amplification of inputs brings, you really would have something special.
Keep in mind I'm a big fan of Fanatec, and own a CSR elite currently, and am perfectly happy with it. In fact, I also have frex pedals that I can't figure out how to make USB stand alone because of the mind-numbing complication of the hydro-brake and simcaliper, and have been scouring the internet for hints on how to make it work without any luck. If Fanatec made the pedals I have, I'd have a new set already or instructions on how to make them work as well as timely correspondence about the problem I've made for myself. Instead, frex is ignoring me, and the only info on their website says I need the brain for their motion cockpit contraption or a frex wheel and controller box to make them work (though I can try their $80 usb board, if I feel like waiting for 6 weeks to receive it after giving some japanese dude I have never met all my financial info (which he already has btw)).
Fanatec has done nothing but bend over backward to make things right for me and many other customers and should be applauded for going the extra mile to please their customers. This attitude is exceedingly rare these days, especially in the consumer electronics industry. For instance, my first G25 had a faulty motor in it. This fact is indisputable, but the hoops I had to jump through to get a replacement involved countless hours of talking on the phone with CS agents, showing I had the original receipt for it, had registered it with matching info correctly before starting the RMA process, after going through 24 hours on the phone (collectively), 3 levels of support, and $50 shipping cost. Then I got to wait 4-6 weeks (2.5 months actually) to get a wheel. Not a wheel and pedals, just a wheel, which sucked because I think the CS agent told me to send "everything" to them, and when they receive it, they'll verify the flaw (sure they will), and after that they would send a new one. Well I had to wait another 4-6 weeks (3 months), for them to send the rest of the stuff I had just sent back to them. I got to pay for the privilege too.
... and what really chaps my a#% is they didn't even apologize.
 
Pakowitz,

Who all signed your rim(s)? I was just at Martinsville and got James Buescher on the BMW. Kyle Larson & Clint Bowyer on the F1. BMW was becoming too heavy to walk around with all day LOL. Kyle Busch & Juan Montoya blew me off, & I just missed out on Kurt Busch & Jeff Gordon.

I plan on getting more next year :)

IMG_00000059_zpsce61aca9.jpg


IMG_00000060_zps8d8747df.jpg
 
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