Fanatec CSW/CSR Elite Modders Thread *UPDATE February 2014*

[eKretz]

Hmm, I've been doing a whole bunch of linearity testing and etc. with David Tucker's program Wheelcheck today. I know in the past people posted that cutting the FF setting on Fanatec wheels clipped the upper ranges of FFB signals, but I'm not seeing any evidence of that in my testing. As far as I can see, the FF setting just cuts the strength across the whole range pretty evenly. Maybe they changed this from firmware to firmware? Not sure, I never tested any of the older ones very in-depth. Here're some examples:

The linearity is pretty good for the most part, (slight hole at the bottom end, but those forces are so light you'd probably never feel them anyway in a console game - most good PC sims allow you to set your minimum force, so this can be almost completely eliminated, and it looks like the FF setting will do just fine to limit the Pulse width a bit and drop the current.

P.S. the important thing to take away from the graphs is that the lines are near straight, or linear, and that the power drops gradually and evenly across the graphs with the reduced FF settings.

 

[Cote Dazur]

Very interesting, what firmware are you using?
The original test had been done at the very beginning, would be nice to know if it is really because of a different firmware and not just because of a different testing method.
It would be great to be able to use the FFB adjsutment of the wheel instead of only relying on adjustment in the SIM, we might be able to better optimize FFB feeling versus heat.
I guess the FFB is not saturating in game at the same level when setting the wheel at 70% instead of 100%.

 

[eKretz]

It's running 757. I would put some older firmwares on and check them, but I have already got the wheel all packed up and ready to ship back out.

Yeah if this is updated with the newer firmware it will work great to keep the heat down without losing any feedback info. I remember everyone always saying never to use the FF setting, but never checked it myself - though I remember seeing a graph from someone that showed the clipping on an earlier firmware. Glad I spent some time to check it now. Took forever to do all of that at all the different voltages and FF settings and make and format all the graphs.

Edit: it was this OLD review that originally showed the clipping. Guess they must have updated?

http://f-wheel.com/reviews/csr-elite-wheel-benchmarked

 

[Cote Dazur]

The test was done with firmware 717.

 

[eKretz]

Right, I meant that they must have updated the way the FF setting is implemented in later firmware at some point - it was clearly clipping in that version.

 

[Blue028]

i am positive Fanatec altered the pusle width settings (or something to do with the voltage) in the newer firmwares to try combat all the motor failures, after a drift session on my wheel when the feedback has fadded, i can spectate for 5-10 minutes and FFB will return to full strenght. i have FW 737 from memory, ive forgoten the button combination to check it
edit: just found it, i have firmware 722

 

[eKretz]

Jerome's (Jump Ace's) wheel is on its way back to him, so you guys should have an independent review of how the Bühler motors perform soon. Now that the FF setting can be used to adjust the max power to the motors without clipping I am more than happy to supply anybody who wants them a drop-in set of Bühler motors with the air cooling setup.

 

[fatkrakr]

Got any price yet?

 

[FatnSlo]

So the two rib belt worked ok in Ace's wheel? I hate the feel of 757 fw with Forza 4 so I have been using 721. I wonder what kind of difference that will mean for my wheel when I use the Buhlers?

 

[Jump_Ace]

You guys will know asap how the wheel feels now vs. how it felt when it started chopping+fading vs. how it felt under original working conditions 👍


Jerome

 

[eKretz]

The 2-rib belt slipped a little bit but not enough to affect the feel or cause excess wear. The trouble spot is definitely the small pulley on the left side as you look at the wheel. That one slips like a bear if it isn't TIGHT. Luckily tightening it doesn't affect feel much. Tightening the motor belt too tight really affects feel though, that one needs to be just right.

As far as the firmware, the best way to find out would be to grab the Wheelcheck program and do the linearity test. I think it's only available to iRacing members though. My Elite is apart right now so I won't be able to experiment with older firmwares for a while.

Pricing will vary based on what you want, there are a million options, from sending me your whole wheel to sending just the motors and mount to having me buy the motors and supply new mount and pulleys, etc. If anyone wants a price just PM me with what you want and I'll get you a price.

 

[RacerXX]

delete

 

[eKretz]

They are a bit better - I've ground a couple belts down as you did to try out and it helps. The Bühler motors have a slight bit more rotor inertia than the stock motors but I can't really tell the difference in feel. The ball bearings help in that respect vs. the bushings in the stock motors. The belt reduction made more of a difference in drag feel than the motor change.

 

[RacerXX]

delete

 

[eKretz]

The last time I ever checked it I was under 10oz. at the wheel rim, but I haven't checked with the thinned belts yet. I also cleaned the grease out of the wheel's bearings and changed to oil.

Did you ever do any more work on the "on-demand" belt tensioner you were contemplating? Care to share any more about your unique cooling method you were hinting at a while back?

I still have some other ideas and experimentation I've been playing with too, but they're not ready for primetime yet.

 

[presidente001]

eKretz, to connect the Buhler motors, need to do some electrical adjustment in PCB or can I connect directly on the PCB at the output of the original motor?

 

[eKretz]

You can wire straight to the original jack on the board, but if you don't cool the motors you will need to cut your FF setting down very low, or the motors will get very very hot. You can use the thermistor trick on the CSW but it won't work well on the CSR Elites. They cut too far. So the only option at the moment is to drop the FF setting.

 

[presidente001]

eKretz, can I use the original power supply to power two motors buhler? What was the maximum temperature was reached in your mod? Here I also have a T500RS and his engine reaches a maximum of 50 º c.

 

[eKretz]

You can probably do so if you drop the FF setting far enough, but you might not be happy with the power at such a low setting. You can always add a power supply later though if you don't like it with the stock one.

The max motor temp I reached was about 150°F (65°C) but this was with the FFB cranked all the way up to max for quite a long time (~30ish laps of F1 2013). All you need to do to drop the temp is set the FF setting down a bit. On the stock power supply if you use the cooling setup you'd stay pretty cool though. Probably closer to 40°C. The T500 already limits the current to it's motor through its firmware or power supply - the motor would pull 12.5A if it was unlimited - instead they are running it with something like 5.8A IIRC.

 

[RacerXX]

delete

 

[LeMansAid]

I might be wrong, but I read it as if eK was referring to self-adjusting tension. As in more when you need it, and less when you don't.

 

[Jump_Ace]

The air pump arrived today. I decided to make use of my Playseat G25/G27 shifter holder since it just barely fits the holes for the air pump:

Holes:

Mounted:

I think I'm just going to velcro the power supply under my seat on the cross bar, it's pretty wide, out of the way and has ventilation. Then I think I'll wire the air pump wires into the shifter mount mouth underneath, going to the P/S and then route the blue tubing along the bottom bar (where all my sharpie marks are) then up the center post. I think I'll use electrical tape for this since it's light and flexible so it doesn't restrict air flow.

If Assetto Corsa wasn't so much damn fun I wouldn't have that keyboard cluttering things up!


Jerome

 

[eKretz]

Oh dammit. That's what I forgot to make for you... That darned plate. See, I knew I forgot something. Sorry bud! Your solution looks good though, as long as you don't use a shifter.

 

[Jump_Ace]

Nope I don't have a clutch pedal, paddle shifter only for me and I'm fine with that


Jerome

 

[FatnSlo]

Jump Ace can I ask where you got that keyboard mount?

 

[Jump_Ace]

Sure buddy, I got it off Amazon. I'll go look for it. It clamps on really well, the one downside to it is the plastic parts that are to support the left and right sides of the keyboard. I tried crazy gluing them on but they still fell off. So now I just have some single sided velcro (super sticky) on each side to hold it in place (along with mounting the KB+M to the large flat surface with velcro initially). It moves slightly, but it's solid enough and very functional.

I'd also steer people away from using the mac wireless keyboard and mouse under windows, the logitech KB+M combo is fantastic in comparison, and a billion times cheaper too.

Keyboard mount, which having the long firm, but flexible neck is nice to get it out of the way when I'm racing:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00A86QWN0/?tag=gtplanet-20

Logitech wireless KB+M AIO:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00ENZRP0G/?tag=gtplanet-20

Both prime shipping on Amazon too!



Jerome

 

[FatnSlo]

Thanks for the info Jump Ace!

 

[Jump_Ace]

Okay so I kept running into this issue with the air line nozzles. They are two different sizes; one size (1/4") for the air pumps outgoing nozzie, and the silicone tubing and splitters (3/16"). So I replaced the original outgoing air nozzle:

I now have a brass one that has the 3/16" size that matches the rest of the air line nozzles. This brass one has the same thread pattern and fit into the same 3/8" female nozzle at Home Depot and it fits into the motor now 👍

And now here's kinda how the air lines are going to go. I'll gently tape them down after my initial testing:

Hmmm, something is missing The wheel should arrive tomorrow evening!



Jerome

 

[eKretz]

That looks like a workable solution Jerome. I think on my final install I would prefer to keep the 1/4" tube up to near the wheel, then split off to the 3/16" tubes just to help a bit with flow rate/volume. Not sure if it would really make a huge difference but it will probably look neater/cleaner also.

 

[Jump_Ace]

Yea I thought about that too, so until that 1/4" to 3/16" splitter we found on ebay in Auzzie land arrives, I'll use this setup. Then I'll put the original 1/4" nozzle on and get a 1/4" tubing 👍

Update: Here it is after 1pm Pacific time and I don't see the wheel scanned in Oregon yet. DOUBLEYOUTEEFFFF UPS....

Chatted wtih them now and they said it won't arrive today either. How nice, so do I get a partial refund because it's 100% on them that the package didn't arrive on time? NO.

Jerome