Fanatec CSW/CSR Elite Modders Thread *UPDATE February 2014*

  • Thread starter eKretz
  • 3,607 comments
  • 604,901 views
That actually is a simply genius idea Eric. Fanatec should've shipped something like that along with their motor replacements and drawn a line to push/tap the wood in place so you get it to the right tension.


Jerome
 
Jump_Ace
Everything is hooked up and ready running great!

Here's a pic of my power supply underneath my seat, with power connectors going to a power strip out the back:
PowerSupply.jpg


Here's my air pump fully hooked up. I tried it mounted to the shifter plate, but it was pretty loud and made my seat vibrate (and that's all I'll say about that :lol:) So I have it on the floor, it's still a little louder than I was hoping, but if I mostly close or fully close the door to my office, you can't hear a thing:
AirPump-1.jpg


Here's my wire and tubing setup:
Tubes.jpg


And last but not least my CSR-E where I've promptly removed all the M$ garbage since we can't use it on the XB1 👎:
NewCSREliteWheel.jpg


Many thanks to eKretz for his hard work, and plenty of patience with my as I asked n00b question after n00b question until I fully understood just about everything for this setup.

:bowdown:

I can't brag about Eric enough, he always promptly replied to my PMs, took pictures of various stages of the progress, worked late nights, the list goes on and on....I would recommend him for anyone's CSR-E/CSW or any other electrical upgrades/fixes you may need. He even hooked me up with a shifter mod, which I'll install later.


Jerome
Click to expand...

Please post in my "Basher I love your Rod thread" and give some kudos. Its there so the expert modders here can get some publicity and kudos.
 
I've been working on a little sound deadening box for my pump to make it nearly completely silent. One of the guys who is getting the Bühler mod done on his wheel is also working on one. I'll throw some pics up when mine is done - I'm using an old PC subwoofer box as my donor for an enclosure, and I have some "egg crate" style foam to line it with. I'm also going to install an old computer heat sink fan to help keep the pump cool in the enclosure. In the future I will probably make an attempt at adding an air-to-Peltier or maybe air-to-ice water intercooler setup to see if it will help cope with the higher voltages better. At 24V I am pretty happy with the cooling as-is, but at higher voltages I would still like to see lower temps. I really love the feel running around 32 - 36V with FF80 - FF90.
 
Found a nice sized heat exchanger in a broken dehumidifier - looks like it will make a perfect ice water-to-air intercooler. I'm going to test it out tomorrow to see how low it drops the pump's output air temperature.
 
I've had my CSW with the Formula and BMW rim for about 7 months now and have used it daily with games like Assetto Corsa, Game Stock Car 2013, iRacing and Richard Burns Rally.

I use the default wheel settings with FOR and FFB @ 100 and to me it is pretty much identical in feel to my real car who has power steering.

When I drive a non power steering car like the F40 in Assetto Corsa I feel that the resistance in the wheel is significantly harder and it seems to replicate what a non power steering car would feel like. Perhaps this is what the modders in this thread tries to imitate. :rolleyes:

I've been watching this thread for some time now and I wonder how much force ( 0 - 400 ) people are using when they get their motors so hot they actually need external cooling to keep their FFB motors cool ? :nervous:

I personally just want to feel the feedback from the road and weight transfers with my wheel and have no desire to use it as a workout tool. :ill:
 
I've read just about every page of this thread and the vast majority of it soars over my head lol. Amazing work!

Alas its looking like my monitors are starting to go. I've used my csw lightly until maybe a week ago when I started trying to get better times in the MP4-12C GT3 in assetto corsa. I'm going to do a recording to send to fanatec later today. I purchased my wheel at the end of July only been using it since August.

 
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magicaldog
I've had my CSW with the Formula and BMW rim for about 7 months now and have used it daily with games like Assetto Corsa, Game Stock Car 2013, iRacing and Richard Burns Rally.

I use the default wheel settings with FOR and FFB @ 100 and to me it is pretty much identical in feel to my real car who has power steering.

When I drive a non power steering car like the F40 in Assetto Corsa I feel that the resistance in the wheel is significantly harder and it seems to replicate what a non power steering car would feel like. Perhaps this is what the modders in this thread tries to imitate. :rolleyes:

I've been watching this thread for some time now and I wonder how much force ( 0 - 400 ) people are using when they get their motors so hot they actually need external cooling to keep their FFB motors cool ? :nervous:

I personally just want to feel the feedback from the road and weight transfers with my wheel and have no desire to use it as a workout tool. :ill:
Click to expand...

The motors in the stock wheel are being stalled at 100% pulse width (this means full stall current is going to the motor). This is beyond the recommended use of pretty much any electric motor. All motors used this way will get hot enough to need cooling. Your stock motors have cooling, albeit not very effective cooling. My stock motors burned out 3 separate times - and I never ran FOR above 100. You are extremely lucky not to have had your motors burn up, there are many many people who have not been so lucky. I would knock on some wood if I were you.

With the mod motors external cooling is necessary because they draw considerably more current at stall. It was thought that there was no good way to limit that other than turning down in-game FFB level until recently because the FF setting in Fanatec wheels originally clipped the high end of FFB signals. Nobody bothered to inform us wheel owners that this had been changed - I only discovered it on accident when I was running linearity tests on my modded wheel.

All that said, I wanted more torque in my wheel to emulate a RACE car. Many of which do not have power steering. Some sims are much weaker than others also and some haven't got much adjustment - so what's to be done? Turn up FOR and SPR and your stock motors will burn out. Also, I much prefer the feel of non-power steering cars personally. Why that would cause you to roll your eyes is beyond me, but way to be insulting. Perhaps you have girl arms and should turn your FFB down to level 1. Some of us have worked with our hands our entire life, and the power level of the stock wheel is trivial when that is the case.

Please don't take that comment as an insult, I am only trying to make a point. People can be very different, and there's no need to belittle others because they want or like something different than you happen to.
 
Well, just tested out my condenser coil intercooler. Stuck it in a sink full of ice water and I'm getting 33°F (~0°C) air at the output. Should be interesting to try out on the wheel. Maybe a small cooler of ice water holding the intercooler. Nice low-budget solution.
 
I'll be the first to admit I have skinny arms :lol: But for me I have the FFB slightly lower as it just plain yields faster lap times. Sure I can turn up the FFB, and I do when I'm just messing about, but for TT I keep the FFB at 30 or 40 now with my new motors, instead of 50 to 70 with the stock ones.


Jerome
 
For sure, when going for lap times lower FFB will always help you. But for fun, enjoyment and immersion I like MOAR POWER!! :D I enjoy feeling that little bit of uncertainty like the old school drivers must have felt - where if you make a mistake and start to get the suspension too far unloaded or lose traction then it catches and snaps the wheel it might be enough to give you an "oh 🤬" moment! See it happen all the time in the vintage racing vids, with the wheel overpowering their hands and snapping back and forth a little bit. Mostly in F1, which is my favorite. I was running a 90's race in a Williams in F1 2013 the other night at 36V and FF80 and it was just awesome. I actually felt like the power level was where it should be - if I made a mistake and went off line I was in the runoff. And when I hit it I had to be sure to have a good grip on the wheel, let me tell you.
 
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eKretz
The motors in the stock wheel are being stalled at 100% pulse width (this means full stall current is going to the motor). This is beyond the recommended use of pretty much any electric motor. All motors used this way will get hot enough to need cooling. Your stock motors have cooling, albeit not very effective cooling. My stock motors burned out 3 separate times - and I never ran FOR above 100. You are extremely lucky not to have had your motors burn up, there are many many people who have not been so lucky. I would knock on some wood if I were you.

With the mod motors external cooling is necessary because they draw considerably more current at stall. It was thought that there was no good way to limit that other than turning down in-game FFB level until recently because the FF setting in Fanatec wheels originally clipped the high end of FFB signals. Nobody bothered to inform us wheel owners that this had been changed - I only discovered it on accident when I was running linearity tests on my modded wheel.

All that said, I wanted more torque in my wheel to emulate a RACE car. Many of which do not have power steering. Some sims are much weaker than others also and some haven't got much adjustment - so what's to be done? Turn up FOR and SPR and your stock motors will burn out. Also, I much prefer the feel of non-power steering cars personally. Why that would cause you to roll your eyes is beyond me, but way to be insulting. Perhaps you have girl arms and should turn your FFB down to level 1. Some of us have worked with our hands our entire life, and the power level of the stock wheel is trivial when that is the case.

Please don't take that comment as an insult, I am only trying to make a point. People can be very different, and there's no need to belittle others because they want or like something different than you happen to.
Click to expand...

I don't understand what you mean by "wheel are being stalled" and "The motors in the stock wheel are being stalled at 100% pulse width" ( Maybe a technical English term ??? )

If you burnt 3 motors you must be doing something very wrong.
I would love to see you in action with your wheel !

How come you think I'm extremely lucky when in fact it's a minority that burned their motors for whatever reason ?

My CSW Base is version 1.5 which might explain why they don't get that hot. The air coming out on the right side has never became very hot, only a little warm after using it for a long time.

I am quite sure my CSW could break a finger if I'm unlucky and have my hands/fingers in the wrong place at the wrong time.

How do you run those linearity tests ?

I also like the feel of non-power steering cars like in netKar Pro where the wheel are really heavy even when I set FOR and FFB @ 100.

Where I come from rolling your eyes just means that I haven't got a clue so please don't take it as an insult.

You seem to be the macho type man when you say that "Some of us have worked with our hands our entire life" and perhaps that could explain why you would want a wheel that give you a real workout rather than having a realistic feel. Have you ever tried a real racing car or perhaps a GoKart ?

FYI I am normal built male 183 cm tall with normal muscle mass so no girlie arms here but perhaps compared to your macho arms - lol
 
magicaldog
I don't understand what you mean by "wheel are being stalled" and "The motors in the stock wheel are being stalled at 100% pulse width" ( Maybe a technical English term ??? )

If you burnt 3 motors you must be doing something very wrong.
I would love to see you in action with your wheel !

How come you think I'm extremely lucky when in fact it's a minority that burned their motors for whatever reason ?

My CSW Base is version 1.5 which might explain why they don't get that hot. The air coming out on the right side has never became very hot, only a little warm after using it for a long time.

I am quite sure my CSW could break a finger if I'm unlucky and have my hands/fingers in the wrong place at the wrong time.

How do you run those linearity tests ?

I also like the feel of non-power steering cars like in netKar Pro where the wheel are really heavy even when I set FOR and FFB @ 100.

Where I come from rolling your eyes just means that I haven't got a clue so please don't take it as an insult.

You seem to be the macho type man when you say that "Some of us have worked with our hands our entire life" and perhaps that could explain why you would want a wheel that give you a real workout rather than having a realistic feel. Have you ever tried a real racing car or perhaps a GoKart ?

FYI I am normal built male 183 cm tall with normal muscle mass so no girlie arms here but perhaps compared to your macho arms - lol
Click to expand...

Yes, well arm (or even body) size has nothing to do with it. Although I am ~192cm in height (almost 6'4"), that makes no difference to strength. It's strength that makes the difference. When one works with one's hands every day all day there gets to be quite a lot of strength and endurance. My arms never get tired racing.

Stall current is the amperage that goes through the motors when they are held at a stopped position while full voltage and unlimited amperage is applied. I, and the many others who have had motor failures aren't doing anything different than you are. You are just one of the lucky ones who happened to get a decent pair of motors. Give it time and we will see if you remain lucky. The motors in these wheels are cheap junk in my opinion. I know this because I have had them apart and examined them and compared them to good motors. They are cheaply made and I'm not at all surprised that so many burn out after seeing them. I have worked as a machinist and industrial mechanic for many years, and have seen many motors of good quality and not so good quality in that time. What are your qualifications?

The air coming out of your wheel isn't hot because the stock cooling isn't doing a very good job. Open up your wheel and race for a few hours with a high FFB car and lay a finger on one of your motor cans and tell me what you think of your cooling system then.

Yes I have raced plenty of karts (including a 125cc shifter kart raced by a friend who was nationally sponsored by KGB). I have also driven several different types of racing cars at track days and schools at Autobahn raceway in Joliet, IL. Including Ferraris/supercars and single seaters. Nobody here made any mention of whether the FFB level was or wasn't realistic lately but you. But I have earlier in this thread and will now. The levels are fine for a power steering car. They are not enough IMO for a single seater or a pro-level kart. They certainly are nowhere near enough for a vintage non-power steering F1 car.

My CSW is also a "V1.5" and I was told by Fanatec that the burned motors were just a "bad batch." But when they sent me brand new "good batch" motors they burned right out just as fast, so that has nothing to do with it. The motors are cheap and are being pushed too hard.

The linearity tests are done with a program called Wheelcheck that is available from David Tucker on the iRacing hardware forum.

Lastly, rolling your eyes where I come from is usually taken as a sarcastic insult, so yes, it did offend me a bit.
 
OK fellas, here are some shots of the pump box and intercooler. First one shows the start with raw materials and the rest are the stuff I got done last night. Still need to add the labyrinths at top and bottom for the cooling air entrance and exit, add the sound absorbing/deadening foam and do the wiring, then paint it. The pump is mounted on double sets of viscoelastic bushings I pirated from old CD and DVD players, so it should isolate the noise from the wood box pretty well.











 
Eric, although I no longer own a CSR Elite or CSW, I am fascinated by the work you are doing on this mod. Thank you for sharing, particularly the pictures. 👍

My launch CSR Elite failed due to burnt up motors, as did two replacements. My CSW lasted about a year and I had no problems with it, and then the guy I sold it to had to get the motors replaced. I wonder whether its the Mabuchi motors in the CSR Elite and CSW, or whether the cooling of those motors is not sufficient for the FFB levels being transmitted by the racing games? Is it a combination of both? I ask because you have taken significant steps to cool the Buhler motors, which are far more expensive and powerful. Are the Buhler motors really more robust, or are you just cooling them better than the stock cooling system in the CSR Elite and CSW?

My CSR Elite and CSW would tend to get warmer in rFactor and GT5/GT6, than iRacing. Perhaps Fanatec has not perfected the firmware to deal with the FFB coming from so many different sims?

This is so interesting to me and I am genuinely curious. As I mentioned, I sold my CSW and am back to my T500, but I continue to read your thread regularly. Very cool man!!!! :)
 
eKretz
Lol, says the guy running max FF of 40. If you want MOAR you are already well-equipped - you only need to turn up FF. If you still want MOAR, you only need to turn up the voltage a little bit. :dopey:
Click to expand...

I meant more pics :lol: There's plenty of POWAH in the wheel!


Jerome
 
eKretz
The motors in these wheels are cheap junk in my opinion.

What are your qualifications?
Click to expand...



I thought it was RC motors they used ( Mabuchi ? )

I have no mechanical/technical education. I'm an IT guy !

What do you think about the FFB in netKar Pro ?
 
Zero7159
Eric, although I no longer own a CSR Elite or CSW, I am fascinated by the work you are doing on this mod. Thank you for sharing, particularly the pictures. 👍

My launch CSR Elite failed due to burnt up motors, as did two replacements. My CSW lasted about a year and I had no problems with it, and then the guy I sold it to had to get the motors replaced. I wonder whether its the Mabuchi motors in the CSR Elite and CSW, or whether the cooling of those motors is not sufficient for the FFB levels being transmitted by the racing games? Is it a combination of both? I ask because you have taken significant steps to cool the Buhler motors, which are far more expensive and powerful. Are the Buhler motors really more robust, or are you just cooling them better than the stock cooling system in the CSR Elite and CSW?

My CSR Elite and CSW would tend to get warmer in rFactor and GT5/GT6, than iRacing. Perhaps Fanatec has not perfected the firmware to deal with the FFB coming from so many different sims?

This is so interesting to me and I am genuinely curious. As I mentioned, I sold my CSW and am back to my T500, but I continue to read your thread regularly. Very cool man!!!! :)
Click to expand...

Hi, and you're very welcome. The stock motors are fine when used for their intended purpose. They were never meant to be used above their rated power levels at full stall amperage levels. Ask any motor manufacturer what they think of running a motor at full unlimited stall current for more than a fraction of a second at a time and see what the response is. Every single one will call it abuse and instantly void the motor warranty if the failure is related to the stall condition, guaranteed. The stock Mabuchi motors are designed to do what they're rated to - no more. Your T500 has a Bühler motor that if unlimited would stall at 12.5A. Your wheel uses only a 6.7A power supply. You see how it is very easy on its motor? The stock Mabuchi motors in the Fanatec wheel together stall at about 6A unlimited and they use a 5A power supply. You see how they are really pushing the motors hard?

The Bühler motors are significantly more robust, even though they are also being used far outside of their ratings. I ran my first pair for almost 6 months with NO cooling other than the stock fans blowing on the motor can with no heatsink. I would race until I started getting worried about the smell! Those motors were getting cooking hot. They still work fine today. My cooling setup is designed to stop the FFB fade and to ensure that the motors don't get hot enough to demagnetize. To summarize, my cooling setup is better than the stock one and the Bühler motors are more robust than the stock ones.

The difference in temperature between sims is really pretty normal because they all send different signals at different levels. That's why they all often feel different even when driving the same models of cars.
 
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magicaldog
I thought it was RC motors they used ( Mabuchi ? )

I have no mechanical/technical education. I'm an IT guy !

What do you think about the FFB in netKar Pro ?
Click to expand...

Nick is correct, these are specialty motors and are extremely difficult to find as spares. Most often they seem to have been used in printer carriages to transport the inkjet printing head.

And I LOVE netKar pro.
 
Makes me wonder, If you put your ear to the ground at some local Recycling places(E waste), Wonder if any of those printers would walk through the door.
 
They might. You can also get the motors that will work now and then on eBay...I posted a link and part number of one that would work several pages back.
 
eKretz
They might. You can also get the motors that will work now and then on eBay...I posted a link and part number of one that would work several pages back.
Click to expand...


Ya i search every now and then. Just thinking there's gotta be some Big a** office building that used em at one time and there's a PILE of them sitting somewhere (My wishful thinking) Lol
 
Yep. Never a good idea not to have a positive locking mechanism. If it ever came loose without the flat to prevent rotation the bore in the pulley would get chewed up and loose. I have been recommending that everyone get their pulleys modded to the larger setscrew also because a lot of guys are rounding off the hex head in the stock ones. The stock hex wrench size is 1.5mm (.059") and I'm changing the setscrews to #8-32 UNC which have a 5/64" or .078" (2mm) hex.
 

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