Fanatec CSW/CSR Elite Modders Thread *UPDATE February 2014*

[eKretz]

Derickh, for the guys who were worried about the pump noise, how much of a problem was it in your opinion? Don't forget guys that he was racing with the pump in my "in-progress" soundproof box with no lid or soundproofing installed so it was more like an amplifier and it was right next to him and not behind the TV stand like usual.

Also what were your thoughts on the cooling setup and its effectiveness? I remember you were surprised how fast the wheel and motors cooled down after you had raced for a while at 36V FF80.

Even so, if anyone plans to run at 30V+ I'd recommend adding some additional cooling for long-term longevity. We've already discussed the ice water to air intercooler setup that I'm experimenting with, and I recently found a motor can heatsink with built-in fans that I'll be trying out soon as well. Hopefully it will fit! If not oh well, time for MOAR modding, lol.

 

[Derickh]

When you first hooked it up it was noticeable (maybe little louder than a fan on high) but not bad. When I started to drive I didn't notice the pump at all, even though it was 3 ft away from me. When the enclosure is finished ,All you will be able to hear is the air flowing thru the tubes.
I think the cooling system that you are using will be enough to keep them cool for a long stint.

 

[Kuilsi]

Hi everyone,

First of all, sorry for my English, it's not my native language.
I follow this forum long time ago, but I have a pretty mediocre translator, so it's almost impossible for me to follow the conversation. I only can get an idea with the images :S, which is very complicated. Impressive job eKretz!

I showed the web page some time ago where I dismantled the motors thanks to a manual that I received from Fanatec (page 32, you can also see a different way to adjust the tension of the belts). I also showed a set of burnt motors, I had in total three broken bases and a set of motors, it was like hell, and these motors never passed from FF60 For120)

Now I have come to an agreement with Fanatec for not to send my base again to Germany to repair. I have asked for a new pair of motors in exchange for loosing my guarantee. At first they said it was impossible due to their new rules, but then they said yes. I accepted with the condition that these new motors were not from the defective batch.

They sent me a set of motors tested by themselves (they say that, I have the email) but when I saw them I realised that they are exactly the same than the defective ones. Now I have 6 motors apparently equal.

And now I have two hopes, one is that these motors don't get burnt (I have doubts about it) and the second one is you eKretz! If these motors fail again, could you send me a pair of those that you are investigating? But please with a step by step guide! (I will look for a better translator...)

Cheers!

 

[eKretz]

Of course Kuilsi. I never intended to sell anything, including services, when I started this mod, but right off the bat I had been getting a lot of requests from people even in the Fanatec thread where we mod guys got chastised for being OT. I am being as public as possible with the info and the non-proprietary parts I use so that anyone who has the ability can do the work on their own. I also want to help out any guys who are out of warranty and can't find suitable drop-in replacement motors so they don't have to pay exorbitant funds to Fanatec only to get another pair of cheap motors that will probably just burn up again.

 

[Kuilsi]

Thanks a lot eKretz! I will contact you if my new motors burn again. A friend of mine also follows your job here in Spain.

 

[Carson79]

If anyone else feels that way I'd be happy to remove my stuff. Seems relevant to me, but I'd like to hear from others on the subject. I revised the first post to include all info for new readers so they don't have to comb through 40+ pages. I'm not sure what you mean by revisions to other posts. The only revisions I have made to other posts were error corrections AFAIK.

I think you've been far too generous with your time, information and helping others for you worry about this being considered a sales pitch or promo thread.
The details of your mods are so well documented here that if anyone wants to they can try to carry out the work themselves.
You've offered to walk people through the process even. So if other happy members wish to thank you and recommend your work/help I think that's the least they can do. In my opinion you've been an outstanding GTP member and I doubt anyone would question your integrity.
Thanks for sharing Eric and keep up the good work

 

[eKretz]

Thanks guys, I'm glad that at least you feel the info is useful and hopefully it will help anybody who needs it. And yes I am more than happy to help guys out where I can with advice or instruction. With respect to the mods, I totally encourage anyone with the ability and proper tools to do everything they can on their own. On the other hand, I also realize that not everybody is adept at making things or working on things, and those are the guys I'm trying to help out.

 

[eKretz]

Something else I noticed today while disassembling Derick's wheel - he has one of the earlier CSWs with a 2-rib belt and only a single cooling fan. Someone asked me quite some time ago whether the early boards like this had an available place to plug in a second fan. They do indeed if Derick's is representative of all the earlier wheels. The board has an empty plug socket that is labeled 'FAN 2' so Fanatec must have planned to use it earlier but for some reason didn't. There are some differences between it and my CSW board - some of the components are placed differently and the 2nd fan socket is on the opposite side of the board.

 

[alexands]

Hey Eric,

I do not feel this is a sale/advertisement posting. Certainly educational. Thanks for posting.

 

[geg1020]

Interesting my CSW has a 2-rib belt with 2 FAN. The PCB has this number PC 10030-11A-Y from 2012/03/01

 

[Alex Bonner]

Great thread

 

[eKretz]

Hey Eric,

I do not feel this is a sale/advertisement posting. Certainly educational. Thanks for posting.

This is also a big reason why I ask people to PM to discuss things if they need help rather than just post a message in the thread. I would have kept all the stuff about customers out but people are asking to see it.

 

[eKretz]

Ok fellas, what do you think of this idea - I'm going to take the Bühler motors from my wheel that Ive been using for the last year and tear them down. I am also going to take one from the last set of "V2" stock motors I got from Fanatec as warranty replacements and tear it down. We'll see how the Bühler motors hold up long-term and see how the stock ones look when and possibly how they fail. Bear in mind I will be tearing down a Bühler motor that is functioning perfectly fine in my wheel and has been for a year, so there may be some wear, I have no idea yet what it's going to look like.

 

[Jump_Ace]

Just a little update on something I noticed since I've received my wheel from Eric. There were times where my wheel wouldn't provide any forcefeedback, at all really. Not to panic though, I found that if I power the PS3 on, or first use a DS3 that gets marked as controller 1, my wheel doesn't get properly initialized, resulting in no FFB.

So, simply put. If you plan on using a DS3 for photomode or what have you, make sure to power on your wheel and put it in the PS3 mode before you power on a DS3 👍


Jerome

 

[eKretz]

Just a little update on something I noticed since I've received my wheel from Eric. There were times where my wheel wouldn't provide any forcefeedback, at all really. Not to panic though, I found that if I power the PS3 on, or first use a DS3 that gets marked as controller 1, my wheel doesn't get properly initialized, resulting in no FFB.

So, simply put. If you plan on using a DS3 for photomode or what have you, make sure to power on your wheel and put it in the PS3 mode before you power on a DS3 👍


Jerome

This should be the same for the stock wheel also, BTW. If it's not I have no idea why. P.S. any other issues at all Jerome? How much time have you had racing with the upgrade so far?

 

[eKretz]

OK here are some photos from the tear-downs I just finished up. Pretty telling that the stock motors are taking a beating:

As a refresher, this is what both armatures looked like new:

And this is what they look like used, you can clearly see the discoloration of the stock motor's armature and wiring from the excessive heat, and the Buhler which is barely darker than new:

This photo shows that a ring that used to be soldered to the motor leads near the commutator got hot enough to melt the solder and separate. I didn't rip this loose, it was floating around loose around the motor shaft:

And here's a shot of the end of the brushes showing a smidgen of wear after a solid year of beating on the Buhler motor - many times running with no cooling whatsoever:

P.S. I apologize for the blurriness of some of the photos, but my little toddler wouldn't quit bumping into me and tugging on my pant leg.

 

[Jump_Ace]

This should be the same for the stock wheel also, BTW. If it's not I have no idea why. P.S. any other issues at all Jerome? How much time have you had racing with the upgrade so far?

Oh, I didn't know that, but that would make sense. I've had no issues with the wheel since I got it back, besides having to bore out the wheelbase's neck holes. It grabs the rims threads great now. I've put probably about 40 hours into it the past couple weeks, it's been a rock.


Jerome

 

[LogiForce]

That burned motor must have had that nice burned electronics smell to it. Never seen electronics stuff that black before, not even when my dad blew up his computer (unprotected AT PSU back in the old pre-ATX standard days) by switching the mains back on while the computer was left on.
You would think that the motor was literally in a fire when you look at it. Just wow!

Edit:
A closer look at comparing the photographs. It seems that the copper wire actually did burn up and shatter. Than got throw against the inside wall of the motor casing and got ground down between the casing and armature, hence the blue/black coloration on the magnets.

Fanabuchi - Will it blend... itself? The answer is... yes.

 

[Blue028]

It seems racerxx has gone sour on this thread, deleated all his posts. I have no problems with what your doing Eric, and I bet everyone following this thread feels the same (well nearly everyone) there is some exelent information in here to help people that wat to do their own mods and you never hesitate to answer peoples questions.
You are doing exelent work keep it up

 

[eKretz]

That burned motor must have had that nice burned electronics smell to it. Never seen electronics stuff that black before, not even when my dad blew up his computer (unprotected AT PSU back in the old pre-ATX standard days) by switching the mains back on while the computer was left on.
You would think that the motor was literally in a fire when you look at it. Just wow!

Edit:
A closer look at comparing the photographs. It seems that the copper wire actually did burn up and shatter. Than got throw against the inside wall of the motor casing and got ground down between the casing and armature, hence the blue/black coloration on the magnets.

Fanabuchi - Will it blend... itself? The answer is... yes.

Yeah it definitely was getting very very hot. And my stock motors were never run with any power supply other than the stock one - I didn't get my bench supply until after I had switched to the Bühler motors. The armatures are showing classic signs of overheating - the bluish purplish black color is oxidation due to heat. That color means the laminations of the armature may have reached an approximate temperature of 500°F (260°C).

I'm not seeing any breaks in the wire though, I'm not sure why you think the wire broke free. And there are no magnets in the photos - the armature is made up of a bunch of thin slices of steel or iron bonded together. The blue/black/purple is oxidation that occurs when steel reaches a certain temperature. The oxide grows to different thicknesses depending on the temperature reached and light is diffracted differently depending on how thick it is, which causes us to see the different colors.

I think maybe the little disc broke free when the solder melted and caused a short that overheated everything, but not sure exactly what happened. It got hotter than hell, of that there is no doubt.

 

[eKretz]

It seems racerxx has gone sour on this thread, deleated all his posts. I have no problems with what your doing Eric, and I bet everyone following this thread feels the same (well nearly everyone) there is some exelent information in here to help people that wat to do their own mods and you never hesitate to answer peoples questions.
You are doing exelent work keep it up

Thanks for the support guys, I will refrain from comment on RacerXX other than to say it's too bad that he's done that, there was at least a little useful stuff there even if he wasn't completely forthcoming with many details.

 

[Blue028]

ok so i have a problem with my wheelthat i really want to fix, ive had the problem for quiet some time now. basically i damaged the encoder wheel when i originally first took my wheel apart, which caused it to constantly go of center while driving, i put up with it for quiet some time but now that i am preparing to do the buhler motor swap i wanted to fix it and also replace the lock stop as mine was pretty flogged out from hard drifting. so i bought an incompleate wheel for parts of ebay that had everything i needed, so when it arived i basically just swapped out the whole shaft with the lock stop and encder. when i went to test it i found the wheel was still going of center

from just looking at the encoder i couldnt see any damage to the black strokes, but when shining light through it onto a white peice of card you can see some shodowy patches (its hard to see in the photo but its very clear in person)

but i also niticed the encoder wheel is slightly warped and doesnt sit flat like the old one



i dont know if this would have any effect on the position sensor but i really want to get this sorted out because its starting to drive me nuts.

if anyone has any ideas if its fixable (or wether i should just get a new one) please let me know.

also here are a few pics of the old buhler motors i modded that were rubish, but ran on the stock power supply





and this is what my wheel looks like now

 

[eKretz]

Does your wheel lose center consistently to the same degree or is center a constantly moving thing?

Why doesn't the encoder wheel sit flat? Is there anything you can do to get it to sit flatter? You can also try to use a fine point Sharpie or something alongside of a straightedge to help darken/solidify the lines.

Also, why were the other Bühler motors rubbish? Just not strong enough? The wheel mod is looking good, nice work.

 

[LogiForce]

Yeah it definitely was getting very very hot. And my stock motors were never run with any power supply other than the stock one - I didn't get my bench supply until after I had switched to the Bühler motors. The armatures are showing classic signs of overheating - the bluish purplish black color is oxidation due to heat. That color means the laminations of the armature may have reached an approximate temperature of 500°F (260°C).

I'm not seeing any breaks in the wire though, I'm not sure why you think the wire broke free. And there are no magnets in the photos - the armature is made up of a bunch of thin slices of steel or iron bonded together. The blue/black/purple is oxidation that occurs when steel reaches a certain temperature. The oxide grows to different thicknesses depending on the temperature reached and light is diffracted differently depending on how thick it is, which causes us to see the different colors.

I think maybe the little disc broke free when the solder melted and caused a short that overheated everything, but not sure exactly what happened. It got hotter than hell, of that there is no doubt.

The reason I thought wire was missing is because in the after shot there seems to be less copper wire wound than in the before shot. Maybe my eyes are deceiving me though, cause on second glance it seems there is what looks like a matte black residue on the wires (layer of soot maybe?). Or at least an area where wires have melted together which I thought was an underlying area on which the wires were wound around.

In any case, I think it's an optical illusion on my side.

 

[Blue028]

those buhlers were still only bushed, i stupidly asumed they were ball bearings before i bought them, but for drifting the rotational speed at the rim was too slow, they would probally be ok for racing though as they did pack a bit mot torque, but i never made any mesurement of any of that so i cant give any specific data.

i dont know why it doest sit flat, i loosened all the screws and re tightened them but the disc itself is just slightly warped, from too much heat maybe? i dont know as i dont know what the wheel it came out of had been put through.

will try to darken the lines a little but i think the problem is coming from the clear sectoins

using the fanatec properties ppage when i slowly turn the wheel i can see were it glitches and cant read the position clearly, and its the areas were i can see the shadows on the peice of card, there are a couple of positions were it does this. generally it always make the wheel hang left of center, sometimes only slightly but can get as much as 30-40 degrees before i re-center it

 

[eKretz]

The reason I thought wire was missing is because in the after shot there seems to be less copper wire wound than in the before shot. Maybe my eyes are deceiving me though, cause on second glance it seems there is what looks like a matte black residue on the wires (layer of soot maybe?). Or at least an area where wires have melted together which I thought was an underlying area on which the wires were wound around.

In any case, I think it's an optical illusion on my side.

Lol, more likely it's the toddler-induced blur on my end. There's no soot or anything on the wires either, they are just discolored from the heat also. They seem to be fully intact otherwise.

 

[eKretz]

those buhlers were still only bushed, i stupidly asumed they were ball bearings before i bought them, but for drifting the rotational speed at the rim was too slow, they would probally be ok for racing though as they did pack a bit mot torque, but i never made any mesurement of any of that so i cant give any specific data.

i dont know why it doest sit flat, i loosened all the screws and re tightened them but the disc itself is just slightly warped, from too much heat maybe? i dont know as i dont know what the wheel it came out of had been put through.

will try to darken the lines a little but i think the problem is coming from the clear sectoins

using the fanatec properties ppage when i slowly turn the wheel i can see were it glitches and cant read the position clearly, and its the areas were i can see the shadows on the peice of card, there are a couple of positions were it does this. generally it always make the wheel hang left of center, sometimes only slightly but can get as much as 30-40 degrees before i re-center it

You might well need to pick up a new encoder wheel then. There's probably not a whole lot you can do to help the clear sections without damaging the black lines.

 

[Blue028]

i had a feeling that was going to be the case, thanks man

 

[eKretz]

Here's a little friction/wear reducing mod anybody brave enough to tear down their wheel can do:



The Chinese factory didn't do a very good job of deburring the edges of the threads in the limit collar area, so they are basically knife-edged. This can cause extra friction and wear if they cut into the plastic collar. It also caused me several nice cuts the first time I had one apart. This one is covered with debris from where I used a fine needle file to round over the edges and make them smooth. Next step is cleaning and removing the factory grease. I'm switching to a dry-film Teflon lubricant for this thread and also the ball bearings.

 

[LeMansAid]

This looks like a promotional / sales thread now. Especially with the revisions to the first and other posts. Not that there is anything wrong with that per se, I am just saying...

I doubt that anyone would have judged your input within the context of the look of the thread. Your content was your content. No-one owns threads, and eKretz is subject to forum rules, but maybe even more so, the bool**** detectors of all that have followed this thread. I'm yet to hear a sound from mine.

I respect strength of character, and talent. I'm quite sure that you have talent.