Fanatec CSW/CSR Elite Modders Thread *UPDATE February 2014*

  • Thread starter eKretz
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fatkrakr
I think the worst part of the whole deal is how Fanatec are just ignoring the problem. Not only ignoring the problem, but also making it more difficult to get them replaced.
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At Fanatec they are in a very delicate position this time. Despite being evident the csw has a major motor issue, they can't absolutely admit it as, an "open" admission of this problem, could probably lead to some class action or similar process (total elite/csw products recall for example). In the meanwhile they have to avoid excessive clamour around this particular issue by resolving the "hardest" cases, leaving the "weaker" ones unresolved. So, sending out motor blocks is a risky option for them as, if they send it out on regular basis, it could be intended like an admission of the problem. That said, there isn't any chance they will fix it even in case a solution has already been found, this because they can't admit the problem.
 
Piumaz
At Fanatec they are in a very delicate position this time. Despite being evident the csw has a major motor issue, they can't absolutely admit it as, an "open" admission of this problem, could probably lead to some class action or similar process (total elite/csw products recall for example). In the meanwhile they have to avoid excessive clamour around this particular issue by resolving the "hardest" cases, leaving the "weaker" ones unresolved. So, sending out motor blocks is a risky option for them as, if they send it out on regular basis, it could be intended like an admission of the problem. That said, there isn't any chance they will fix it even in case a solution has already been found, this because they can't admit the problem.
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Piumaz, you have a good point, they have to be intelligent about the solution but if Fanatec was offering an upgrade kit, a la eKretz, all would be well in this world, as, for one, I have no ill intent toward Fanatec and their Elite/CSW wheel, that are in my POV an excellent product with a weak area that an upgrade would improve upon.
They are hurting a lot more people and them selves by not helping resolving the issue.
 
Piumaz
At Fanatec they are in a very delicate position this time. Despite being evident the csw has a major motor issue, they can't absolutely admit it as, an "open" admission of this problem, could probably lead to some class action or similar process (total elite/csw products recall for example). In the meanwhile they have to avoid excessive clamour around this particular issue by resolving the "hardest" cases, leaving the "weaker" ones unresolved. So, sending out motor blocks is a risky option for them as, if they send it out on regular basis, it could be intended like an admission of the problem. That said, there isn't any chance they will fix it even in case a solution has already been found, this because they can't admit the problem.
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Not sure if you have some inside information from Fanatec or are just making assumptions.

Either way, the appropriate action is to come clean. Maybe develop a solution first and then come clean. This problem has been apparent for over a year. Solve the problem (new motors and/or firmware), send it out to customers who have problems and move on. They have had plenty of time to do this. Hell, they could have contacted Eric and probably had it done in a month.

To deny and continue to sell the same defective product, exacerbates the issue and creates more ill will towards the company. This is essentially the same reason we tell children not to lie. The lie builds on itself and you have to lie more and more to keep your original lie from being caught. Slippery slop.

I would bet that the majority of Fanatec's CSW customers are very sympathetic and understand that this is a boutique company, trying to make great products. They made a mistake. Everyone makes mistakes. But we want them to survive and continue trying, so would be willing to deal with these kinds of defective issues, as long as they are acknowledged and resolved. They could even just tell us that they are working on something and hope to have it fixed shortly. In the meantime, give us replacement motors as needed.

However, lying and ignoring the problem turns those sympathetic customers into angry vengeful customers. This is how you get class action lawsuits. Long term, this is how small companies die.
 
Cote Dazur
Piumaz, you have a good point, they have to be intelligent about the solution but if Fanatec was offering an upgrade kit, a la eKretz, all would be well in this world, as, for one, I have no ill intent toward Fanatec and their Elite/CSW wheel, that are in my POV an excellent product with a weak area that an upgrade would improve upon.
They are hurting a lot more people and them selves by not helping resolving the issue.
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Selling an upgrade kit should be great... Anyway it is impossible they sell something like this as it requires too much work to be installed for the average user. They can't really handle warranty contracts considering the user's personal skills...
 
Piumaz
Selling an upgrade kit should be great... Anyway it is impossible they sell something like this as it requires too much work to be installed for the average user. They can't really handle warranty contracts considering the user's personal skills...
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What's ironic about that is when my motor first went out, they shipped me a replacement motor unit. Selling one is not that much different.

@F1 Enthusiast Fanatec, or any company (for the most part) won't admit any issues in their products because of morale at the work place (total B.S. imo), public image and the repercussions of customers demanding even more service when the company admits the issue (defeat). Just look at GM and that whole ignition problem, they now want to file and say they are covered by the bankruptcy in 2009 so they don't have to pay fees to the victims. Because of their greed, I'll never buy a GM car, I was planning on buying a C3 'Vette when I get older, but now I'll be buying an NSX :D And I do admire you for wanting to continue to purchase their products, they are excellent when they work 👍


Jerome
 
I can find the motors new with no problem. There's no issue there. The issue is making enough of a bulk purchase to bring the cost per motor down to a more acceptable level. Good quality motors are not cheap. For one pair we're talking $240.00 for just the motors. For 15 pairs that comes down to more like $160-$170 per pair. I may take a list of positively interested people to see if there are enough to make the order. We'd need at least 15 guys to do it and the more the better as far as price. I'd have to get payment for the motors up front though, and delivery for complete motor blocks for everyone will take a month at least probably. I'm still investigating other motors as well but I can't say with any certainty how they will last as compared with the Bühler motors.
 
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I am still making up more parts every chance I get. I have plenty of most of them and am working on finishing up the others. I need to order up some more motor mounts for people who will want new ones, but I'm guessing a good percentage of guys will have their stock parts modded also.

Thanks F1, to my great relief my son is doing much better.
 
Cote Dazur
Piumaz, you have a good point, they have to be intelligent about the solution but if Fanatec was offering an upgrade kit, a la eKretz, all would be well in this world, as, for one, I have no ill intent toward Fanatec and their Elite/CSW wheel, that are in my POV an excellent product with a weak area that an upgrade would improve upon.
They are hurting a lot more people and them selves by not helping resolving the issue.
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Here's what they should do IMO:

Make a new PCB with capability to drive brushless motors that is compatible with XB1 and PS4 and offer it on sale as an upgrade (with motors) for current CSW/Elite owners.
 
Hi Eric, I'm glad to see that your son is doing well. Those kind of events really make us realize what really important in life.

Regarding the motor upgrade path, just to be clear - does the cost given on the signup page include the complete motor block with cooling fittings, pulleys, etc? We just need to install/adjust belts, add cooling solution and upgrade the PSU?
 
eKretz
Here's what they should do IMO:

Make a new PCB with capability to drive brushless motors that is compatible with XB1 and PS4 and offer it on sale as an upgrade (with motors) for current CSW/Elite owners.
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That's what I am hoping for (or anything similar really) and why I still haven't done anything about my current motors. To be honest though it just doesn't look like Fanatec is going to address the issue at all. My warranty is up in Nov. and I may send in for one more motor replacement to get me till then, but really that is just a waste of time and resources to ship a few pieces of 🤬 (motors) across the country. :banghead:
 
Regarding the motor upgrade path, just to be clear - does the cost given on the signup page include the complete motor block with cooling fittings, pulleys, etc? We just need to install/adjust belts, add cooling solution and upgrade the PSU?
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Ah, maybe we need to add that to the page. No that is just the motors. The cost for the rest is quite varied depending on whether I will be modding your stock parts or supplying new ones; or indeed if you will be doing any of the mod work on your own as some have done. I was selling the refurbished motors for $30 each to give you an idea of the original cost, but they are getting pretty scarce. They do show up from time to time on eBay and some printer parts sellers sometimes get them but they are usually a good bit more than $30 through those guys.
 
eKretz
Well if that was a problem I guess it would just be PS4, like the original CSW was only PS3.
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Well as far as I understand PS4 itself doesn't support wheels. It is down to Fanatec and every game developer that develops a racing game for PS4 to cooperate. So, if game developers don't use some new technology for FFB, it is possible to make every Fanatec wheel to work with every PS4 game as long as they cooperate.

As for motors used by Fanatec, as eKretz have said, they almost cost nothing, but motors eKretz offer (whether Bühler or those other ones) cost several hundreds. That extra cost would make Fanatec wheels cost that much more and therefore a lot more expensive than their rival T500 which may make more people to prefer T500 over Fanatec. So it is probably a compromise they have had to make to appeal more buyers. No one really knows.
 
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eKretz
Ah, maybe we need to add that to the page. No that is just the motors. The cost for the rest is quite varied depending on whether I will be modding your stock parts or supplying new ones; or indeed if you will be doing any of the mod work on your own as some have done. I was selling the refurbished motors for $30 each to give you an idea of the original cost, but they are getting pretty scarce. They do show up from time to time on eBay and some printer parts sellers sometimes get them but they are usually a good bit more than $30 through those guys.
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Okay, I understand that - thanks for the clarification. The next question is: How much would need to be added to have a "Drop-In-Ready Motor Block Kit" with the new motors, mount, pulleys, cooling fittings, etc., for those of us able and willing to do the installation ourselves? I think it would be in everyone's best interest to clarify exactly what people are getting for their money to avoid any issues. Also, when you supply the new motors, do they receive the necessary machine work or is that extra?

Perhaps you can provide a break-down of the cost for each stage so we can see how the kit that best meets our situation adds up. I hope I'm not coming across as seeming critical or questioning your pricing, I just deal with business on a daily basis and being clear and concise where possible helps to avoid conflicts. People's expectations can be far different from our own when they don't have the benefit of walking in our shoes for a day. Thank you for your efforts in making this possible so we can continue to enjoy using these wheels.
 
Dean Ogurek
Okay, I understand that - thanks for the clarification. The next question is: How much would need to be added to have a "Drop-In-Ready Motor Block Kit" with the new motors, mount, pulleys, cooling fittings, etc., for those of us able and willing to do the installation ourselves? I think it would be in everyone's best interest to clarify exactly what people are getting for their money to avoid any issues. Also, when you supply the new motors, do they receive the necessary machine work or is that extra?

Perhaps you can provide a break-down of the cost for each stage so we can see how the kit that best meets our situation adds up. I hope I'm not coming across as seeming critical or questioning your pricing, I just deal with business on a daily basis and being clear and concise where possible helps to avoid conflicts. People's expectations can be far different from our own when they don't have the benefit of walking in our shoes for a day. Thank you for your efforts in making this possible so we can continue to enjoy using these wheels.
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Yes, the form that's up now is only for the goal of getting new motors in stock, which is more or less the blocker for anything else to happen.

I'm happy to work with eKretz on an actual order form where a user can get specific with what they're asking for and eKretz can in turn provide an estimate for said parts/work. With eKretz's blessing I'll get to work on that this weekend.
 
As someone who has ordered motors from eKretz, my arrangement for the Mod was made with a few PM.
It is most likely the most efficient as everyone's situation is a little different and their is always additional concerns and questions, plus eKretz has very good suggestion once it has been decided what is exactly needed.
A form to cover all angle will be most likely too complicated
Since we are dealing one on one directly with the man who is doing the work, I suggest for all to stick with PM messages.
My 2 (Canadian) cents.:)
 
Yeah, that's why I didn't want to just bully myself into the process if more process wasn't necessary. I have an IT and Project Management background so I'm helplessly addicted to process improvement and organization. What I'm seeing is a possible flood of new interest and am offering to help manage it if desired, but that of course is up to the guy who has to field all those requests. :)

EDIT:

As an example, the bulk order signup form hasn't been live for 24 hours yet and we already have 9 folks signed up (which is awesome, btw!). Each of those will likely follow-up with orders of varying complexity. Too much for PMs? I can't speak for everyone, but it'd overwhelm me. Then again, I'm also not as sharp as the modders that have been posting their work in this thread.
 
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I think as long as he takes them 1 at a time he will be fine. That will take some effort on the communities part to be patient of course, but I think taking them 1 at a time will ensure the highest attention to detail. Not saying that eKretz wouldn't still be able to give the highest level of service, just easier to keep everthing in order that way.
 
Yep, I think sticking to PM is best because of the many different options and that makes it a little easier for me to keep people in order. Before my back crapped out on me I was running the estimating/order processing for a machine shop that does over $1 million a year in orders, so this is peanuts, lol. I have a notebook set aside specifically for only Fanatec mod work and orders so it's pretty easy to keep organized.

Thanks very much for the offer though nubrocket, I do appreciate it.
 
bumer
Well as far as I understand PS4 itself doesn't support wheels. It is down to Fanatec and every game developer that develops a racing game for PS4 to cooperate. So, if game developers don't use some new technology for FFB, it is possible to make every Fanatec wheel to work with every PS4 game as long as they cooperate.

As for motors used by Fanatec, as eKretz have said, they almost cost nothing, but motors eKretz offer (whether Bühler or those other ones) cost several hundreds. That extra cost would make Fanatec wheels cost that much more and therefore a lot more expensive than their rival T500 which may make more people to prefer T500 over Fanatec. So it is probably a compromise they have had to make to appeal more buyers. No one really knows.
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I hear you for sure on the PS4 thing, I'm just really pushing for the brushless! Lol.

The motor cost thing doesn't really jive though - if Fanatec bought enough motors as they would certainly have to in order to mass produce their wheels they would certainly get them for WAY cheaper than we can. I'm guessing they would be down close to that $30 I was getting for the refurbs. But my guess is they're not willing to take a hit on their profit margin to do so. The cost of the wheel would probably need to go up $100 so they'd make some money on the motors also.
 
Dean Ogurek
Okay, I understand that - thanks for the clarification. The next question is: How much would need to be added to have a "Drop-In-Ready Motor Block Kit" with the new motors, mount, pulleys, cooling fittings, etc., for those of us able and willing to do the installation ourselves? I think it would be in everyone's best interest to clarify exactly what people are getting for their money to avoid any issues. Also, when you supply the new motors, do they receive the necessary machine work or is that extra?

Perhaps you can provide a break-down of the cost for each stage so we can see how the kit that best meets our situation adds up. I hope I'm not coming across as seeming critical or questioning your pricing, I just deal with business on a daily basis and being clear and concise where possible helps to avoid conflicts. People's expectations can be far different from our own when they don't have the benefit of walking in our shoes for a day. Thank you for your efforts in making this possible so we can continue to enjoy using these wheels.
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The reason I don't do this is there are just too many variables involved to give a general price. I will post my standard price for the complete motor block ready to drop in - but this is the price with refurbed motors. Subtract $60 and add the cost of 2 new motors to get what the new price would be. All machining is included in this price to include the mods on the motors themselves. Cost will come down from here if you can do any of the machining of your own stock parts or want to have your stock parts modded instead of new ones (motor mount and pulleys). If you can source your own motors that is fine too. Here you go:

I am currently offering drop-in motor blocks with motors, new motor mount and pulleys, new wiring harness with plug and air cooling kit with all hardware, fasteners and spacers (internal to the wheel) fully sealed, assembled and soldered (ready to bolt in and plug in to your circuit board) for $280 USD plus shipping. I also offer the kit unassembled (you get a box of parts and assemble, seal air passages and solder yourself) for $250 USD.

Either way you will need to drill 2 holes in your rear cover for the quick release air fittings and you'll need to source a 24VDC min. 10A power supply and an air pump that flows 30-40 LPM for cooling the motors as well as 3/16" and 1/4" ID tubing from the pump to the wheel (1/4" for most of the distance then a split into (2) 3/16" tubes when entering the rear cover) and a splitter. If your AC voltage is 120V I have a deal worked out with a pump supplier for a good pump at $29 plus shipping. All you need to do is add a power cord and hook it up to your tubing.
 
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