- 84
- Central Wisconsin
Fanatec CSW/CSR Elite Modders Thread *UPDATE February 2014*
- Thread starter eKretz
- 3,608 comments
- 607,370 views
- 391
- Perth
well i finally pulled my finger out and got Erics cooling setup and the new power supply succesfuly installed. still have a few minor things to do (like adding the second fan in the base). while i was running the motors on the stock power supply i did notice that while drifting the buhler motors didnt quite give the same RPM at the wheel as the stock motors, which made fast transitions a little tricky but now with the new power supply wired up the extra couple of volts out of the adjustment screw (~ 27.5V) makes all the difference. the wheel is now as fast as stock with more torque and no heat fade. very happy with my wheel now. i have checked roughly what temps the motors were getting too and hit about 42 degrees C after a long session between myself and my brother trying to beat each others laps on Assetto Corsa in the lotus 49. (i blitzed his time btw 
).
Thanks Eric for all your hard work and sharing your knowledge, i cant thank you enough!
).Thanks Eric for all your hard work and sharing your knowledge, i cant thank you enough!
- 4,168
- Ottawa
- 4,168
- Ottawa
How is the probe attached to the can? Thermal paste?
On mine the probe of the thermometer is stuck in the cooling fins of the stock motors, I always keep an eye in the temperature.
On the Buhler, I intent to use thermal paste to attach the probe.
On mine the probe of the thermometer is stuck in the cooling fins of the stock motors, I always keep an eye in the temperature.
On the Buhler, I intent to use thermal paste to attach the probe.
- 1,603
- IN
- Eric_J2358
That is about as good a way as we have to measure the temp at the moment but I want to take a moment to caution you guys just like I did Cote in PM. That temp on the can doesn't accurately reflect the temp at the armature - it will be much hotter there and especially on the insides of the wire coils where no cooling air can reach. Think of the stock motors - they look perfectly fine on the outside of the can but the armatures are blue/purple! This means there's a disparity of over 100°C! Steel first starts to discolor and turn yellowish at about 150°C and the cans don't show any color at all. The blue/purple color doesn't come about until more like 280°C! So you can see what a dramatic difference there can be. This is why I don't recommend running without cooling.
LOL, I just did some temp monitoring too. I just got Eric's motors but before installing them I thought I'd do a before and after temp readings. My CSW has fresh stock motors after warranty repair. I was able to get the tip of the of the prob touching the back of the top motor by sticking it through a slightly modified right cover.
Did a few track sessions until the temp stabilized using two different wheel settings. FF100 & For70 went to 41C, and FF100 & For100 went to 48C. I found the CSW fans run at three different speeds (or more). Low on startup, medium before it got to 38C, and high before 48C. Most telling I think is I noticed a hot smell when the fans were on high, not a burning smell but like hot motors smell which stopped when they cooled enough to drop the fans to medium speed. So I think its good advice to not run 100/100 FF with stock motors.
Measuring at the back of the motors is likely more accurate than at the heat sink fins because the air flow will keep the fins cooler than the rest of the outer surface. So I think the heat sink actually contributes to less accurate temp readings by cooling the case. But I agree with Eric that any outer surface will not be nearly as hot as the armature where the problem is. Being an anal techie I just want to get some temperature comparisons especially with and without external air pump on the Buhlers. OK, its really an excuse to use the temp function on my new multimeter.
Did a few track sessions until the temp stabilized using two different wheel settings. FF100 & For70 went to 41C, and FF100 & For100 went to 48C. I found the CSW fans run at three different speeds (or more). Low on startup, medium before it got to 38C, and high before 48C. Most telling I think is I noticed a hot smell when the fans were on high, not a burning smell but like hot motors smell which stopped when they cooled enough to drop the fans to medium speed. So I think its good advice to not run 100/100 FF with stock motors.
Measuring at the back of the motors is likely more accurate than at the heat sink fins because the air flow will keep the fins cooler than the rest of the outer surface. So I think the heat sink actually contributes to less accurate temp readings by cooling the case. But I agree with Eric that any outer surface will not be nearly as hot as the armature where the problem is. Being an anal techie I just want to get some temperature comparisons especially with and without external air pump on the Buhlers. OK, its really an excuse to use the temp function on my new multimeter.
Attachments
- 4,168
- Ottawa
- 1,603
- IN
- Eric_J2358
Hey guys, there seems to be some confusion with the need for cooling with some guys, I'm going to post up a PM I wrote in discussion with someone - who can ID themselves if they wish or not. Please discuss:
The stock motors would definitely work better with better cooling. The reason most manufacturers don't do it is because it's expensive, and it's better to take the other approach I mentioned if possible - to use larger motors and run them at much lower than their full stall amperage. This is why you don't hear about failure of the stock motors in the T500. The stock motors also use armature wire that is almost definitely not rated to the same temp as the Bühler motors. This is pretty much standard in cheap motors - good quality motors use higher temperature rated magnet wire, and it's not cheap - that's one of the things that adds to the cost of the motors. Your Bühler motors in all likelihood will not fail without cooling. But. They will get heat fade just like the stock motors, and you will shorten their life compared to what it would have been with the cooling installed. The Bühler motors are also much stronger than stock and they stall at even higher amperage so they make even more heat. I also mentioned earlier in the thread that my cooling setup could be used with stock motors - just nobody wants to use them when the far better Bühler motors are available. You must remember that NO electric motor is intended to be run at full stall at unlimited or nearly unlimited amperage. Every manufacturer would call this a void of warranty. The Bühler is just constructed of much better stuff and can take the beating better - but why make things worse by running without cooling -it's just risking the life of your motors that much more.
The stock motors would definitely work better with better cooling. The reason most manufacturers don't do it is because it's expensive, and it's better to take the other approach I mentioned if possible - to use larger motors and run them at much lower than their full stall amperage. This is why you don't hear about failure of the stock motors in the T500. The stock motors also use armature wire that is almost definitely not rated to the same temp as the Bühler motors. This is pretty much standard in cheap motors - good quality motors use higher temperature rated magnet wire, and it's not cheap - that's one of the things that adds to the cost of the motors. Your Bühler motors in all likelihood will not fail without cooling. But. They will get heat fade just like the stock motors, and you will shorten their life compared to what it would have been with the cooling installed. The Bühler motors are also much stronger than stock and they stall at even higher amperage so they make even more heat. I also mentioned earlier in the thread that my cooling setup could be used with stock motors - just nobody wants to use them when the far better Bühler motors are available. You must remember that NO electric motor is intended to be run at full stall at unlimited or nearly unlimited amperage. Every manufacturer would call this a void of warranty. The Bühler is just constructed of much better stuff and can take the beating better - but why make things worse by running without cooling -it's just risking the life of your motors that much more.
- 4,168
- Ottawa
I am the one bugging eKretz with my Canadian questions 
, as I get better informed in this thread, I started to realize that we are blaming the cheap motors when in fact, as explained above, there is more to it than just the cheap motors, that is why for a more complete remedy, to not only failing motors but also to fading, adding the cooling solution is such a great suggestion.
Why only be young and healthy when you can be young, rich and healthy.
, as I get better informed in this thread, I started to realize that we are blaming the cheap motors when in fact, as explained above, there is more to it than just the cheap motors, that is why for a more complete remedy, to not only failing motors but also to fading, adding the cooling solution is such a great suggestion.Why only be young and healthy when you can be young, rich and healthy.
- 391
- Perth
i initially used the motors i have in now with no cooling, only for very short sessions but was still enough to get them smoldering hot and i think it did damage them a little, but i wasnt too worried about it because when i received them they were 'damaged' hehe, so i was getting sent a secont pair for nothing (im still waiting for those to get through customs though). so yeah, i too would strongly advise cooling if your upgrading your motors.
here are some progress shots of the rim im working on. as i destroyed the original csr rim i have not had paddle shifters for a long time, but not for much longer
ive used the clubsport shifter modules and moddified my csr elite paddle to fit on, and its all attached to the hub spacer i can change wheel rims at a later stage if need be. and making up more shifter paddles to bolt on will be a breeze, i found my old porsche gt2 paddles that im going to fix up aswel. all i need to do is source some of the switches that bolt into the shifter modules and wire it all together.
here are some progress shots of the rim im working on. as i destroyed the original csr rim i have not had paddle shifters for a long time, but not for much longer
ive used the clubsport shifter modules and moddified my csr elite paddle to fit on, and its all attached to the hub spacer i can change wheel rims at a later stage if need be. and making up more shifter paddles to bolt on will be a breeze, i found my old porsche gt2 paddles that im going to fix up aswel. all i need to do is source some of the switches that bolt into the shifter modules and wire it all together.
- 10
- Canada
- 20
- Switzerland
- geg_geg
As I said here
Fanatec CSW/CSR Elite Modders Thread *UPDATE February 2014*
I am really happy with the mod. I was a bit annoyed by the extra noise of the air pump. Wanted to let you know that I found a pump that is very silent and working very well on my system.
THe brand is Aquaforte V series you can have the:
V-10 10 L/M
V-20 20 L/M
V-30 30 L/M
V-60 60 L/M
I got the V-30. Really happy with it now. I enjoy driving AC even more ;-)
BTW for those interested, MP will be in the next build of AC next Friday 2 of May
Fanatec CSW/CSR Elite Modders Thread *UPDATE February 2014*
I am really happy with the mod. I was a bit annoyed by the extra noise of the air pump. Wanted to let you know that I found a pump that is very silent and working very well on my system.
THe brand is Aquaforte V series you can have the:
V-10 10 L/M
V-20 20 L/M
V-30 30 L/M
V-60 60 L/M
I got the V-30. Really happy with it now. I enjoy driving AC even more ;-)
BTW for those interested, MP will be in the next build of AC next Friday 2 of May
- 118
- Sweden
- 41
- United States
- nubrocket
Regarding this mod specifically, is there any advantage to having the CSW over the CSR-E? I would like to stick with my CSR-E (Forza 4 addict) but would like some insight on whether or not I'm hindering myself by doing so. My "long game" is to end up on PC someday when I'm able to afford to build a good one.
Also, as an update to the motor bulk order progress, we are up to 10 folks signed up as of yesterday. We still need 5 more in order to hit the first estimated price break and end up with cheaper motor blocks for everyone.
Here's the form link again.
https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1q2HmZzm7DD_zaoh83KTxT3A2lYjqeaX75ZdjJmGjSfY/viewform
Also, as an update to the motor bulk order progress, we are up to 10 folks signed up as of yesterday. We still need 5 more in order to hit the first estimated price break and end up with cheaper motor blocks for everyone.
Here's the form link again.
https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1q2HmZzm7DD_zaoh83KTxT3A2lYjqeaX75ZdjJmGjSfY/viewform
- 163
- Colorado
- FatnSlo
- FatnSlo
The CSR-E is an awesome wheel I think. While the wheel does not have the fancy wheel options with all the buttons, it does have a wheel that is lighter than any of the CSW one's which provides more feedback due to the lighter weight. And if you move to the PC and want more buttons on your wheel, I have a cheap method:
This is a $20 Amazon wireless USB keyboard that I have velcro'd to the wheel which I use when I play PC games like AC and iRacing. When I play Forza or GT, I just pull it off. It does add about 3oz to the wheel though which deadens the feel some.
This is a $20 Amazon wireless USB keyboard that I have velcro'd to the wheel which I use when I play PC games like AC and iRacing. When I play Forza or GT, I just pull it off. It does add about 3oz to the wheel though which deadens the feel some.
- 118
- Sweden
