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- Canada
The wheel turns, ever so slightly, left and right. That and vibration really is all ffb is no?
Fanatec Gran Turismo DD Pro
- Thread starter daan
- 2,448 comments
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- 3,317
- Canada
It's honestly all I ever feel, the wheel twitching back and forth through corners. I dunno, it's weird, I expected more subtle vibrations but there's a lot of tugging.
I've half a mind to turn it all off.
I've half a mind to turn it all off.
bliprunner
Premium
- 169
- United Kingdom
- bliprunner
Hey man, been reading your posts with interest because it sounds like you've made a quite extreme transition, from d-pad and buttons straight to wheel and load cell too!
Firstly I think if you have access to anyone else who uses a wheel they should come over and test your kit, make sure it feels correct.
Secondly, if you have the FFB turned down to 1 you are not going to get, in my opinion, enough feedback through the wheel to drive effectively. When you turn at speed then the force is going to build up and you want to feel that force until you get to the max load - the max amount of grip - once you go over this point the force decreases and so does your grip until you get to oversteer sliding and the silly GT vibration 'alert'. Ideally you never want to get to this point.
This takes some time to learn but stick with it. The twitching sounds like the car going past the available amount of grip and the wheel naturally trying to correct, sort of like drifting when drivers let the wheel turn to catch slides, if you hold the wheel with a soft grip you can let the wheel save your slides by letting it turn naturally.
Finally, if I was going from buttons to wheel I don't know if I'd start with a load cell, I think it might be overcomplicating the transition. I'd start without a load cell if possible, I don't know if that's possible though depending on what kit you've bought.
Overall I'd say stick with it, it takes time to adjust, you've picked a very tough mission! With d-pad and buttons the game adds a lot of extra smoothing to make a car drivable, now you're in control of all that smoothing and that probably feels very unnatural. You are now balancing the car by feeling the force in the wheel and responding to it, eventually this becomes automatic and very rewarding and immersive too, so good luck and don't quit!
- 3,317
- Canada
I appreciate this response. I am 99.99pc sure my gear is 100pc fine, as you said, it's a massive change from D-Pad and I need to ditch old habits. I feel like I have the throttle about right now, I alternate between TC1 and 2 but I am struggling with the brakes and struggling on where to turn in and how much speed to carry. I am often missing my apex by turning in too late, not through late braking but through mis-timing my entry.
I find the wheel experience is odd, there's not enough initial turn in, like a bit of a dead zone, but then it feels sorta sloppy and hard to turn the opposite way. Best example is Stavelot/Malmedy at Spa. Now I know this track and know you need to give up some time on the left hander to exit well on the right but dear jebus I CANNOT get the car through the initial right hander and then turning left fast enough, I am always late and miss the apex or wash way too much speed for the final right hander of the RIGHT/LEFT/RIGHT sequence.
I bumped FFB to 3 to see if that helps but yeah I get a lot of the wheel twisting in my hands, say 5 to 10 degrees back and forth and that's just going through a fast corner, I don't understand this and it feels like I am fighting the wheel all the time. my initial reaction to FFB is we, as in a community are trying to do too ,much through the wheel and not enough with the seat. You're asking the wheel to convey understeer, oversteer, weight, kerb rumble, turn, brake etc, it just feels like too much for one device.
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Stand or cockpits?
- 3,317
- Canada
Titan cockpit which I have to say is a great piece of kit for the price, highly recommended. It takes castors too so I can move it out of the way for the kids to play other games. Solid, easy to use, looks good etc, perfect piece of gear tbh.
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PirovacBoy
Premium
- 1,481
- Cologne/Germany
- PirovacBoy
Hello @NevilleNobody
It really makes me sad that you are not enjoying or at least do seem to not enjoy your new gear.
I read all of your posts across all different threads you made in regard of your problems you encounter with your gear.
I tried to elaborate on what the reason might be causing you to experience such a suboptimal feedback.
Well, first of all, it is definitely a learning process coming from a d pad switching to a wheel.
I think we all have had to make that transition and adapt to the complexity and different input method a wheel / pedal setup requires.
This transition process might take more or less time, depending on many factors.
But in general we all made it, so will you too.
No doubt about it.
But in order to make sure that this process doesn't feel like a total pita, some things should be taken into consideration which I'm going to explain in the following.
First of all make sure that all of your gear is working appropriately.
You can check its functions in the game menu under calibration settings.
If everything works as intended we are ready to move on to the second step, which will be the actual driving itself.
I would highly recommend you to choose a slower road car for the beginning.
Stick to this car for a undefined period of time.
Choose a track which you are familiar with and slowly start turning your laps, driving the car consciously.
Pay attention to what's happening on the screen and how it is felt through your hands.
This is a very important process because being overwhelmed with such a vast amount of wheel feedback, it can be very much an overkill in the beginning.
Hence you absolutely shouldn't aim for lap times or the fastest possible way to turn your laps.
Actually the complete opposite is the way to go.
The best advice I can give you is to drive your car exactly the way you would do it in real life too.
No risky or dangerous speeds, not over revving the engine, very early upshifts and very late down shifts.
You should notice that by just doing this your whole driving process will feel way more calmed and conscious.
You should slowly start to get an understanding how certain FFB effects impact the perceived feeling in your hands.
Because unfortunately I must agree that some FFB effects are very distracting and misleading in what actually is happening on screen, hence leading to false assumptions and in the end wrong decisions operating the Wheel.
So to make sure to get the most possible and needed feedback in order to navigate your vehicle naturally and intuitive, I always suggest to concentrate on what distracts you and then filter out these sensations by entering the tuning menu on your Wheelbase.
From here you can precisely adjust and get rid of most of these unwanted effects.
Same goes for the other end too as you can also adjust especially the effects you wish to feel even more precise and direct.
It's actually a balancing process until you reach your desired FFB.
Keep in mind there is no right or wrong unless the perceived FFB feels right to you.
Hence you shouldn't just copy paste settings because everyone has a different understanding and perception of what feels right in ones hands.
Of course there are some basic settings which shouldn't be overdone but in general you should look for your individual FFB setup.
So to sum it up, I'd say that simply take your time.
Don't rush it.
Drive consciously.
Pay attention to the on screen happening and how it interacts with your Wheel.
Drive stock road cars which are not overpowered.
400 to 500pp. At most.
Stick to one car. Very important.
Because with every car change, the FFB changes too and in order to get a correct understanding for how FFB works it's counter productive to swap cars in the beginning.
And one more thing.
Don't aim for lap times or in general don't try to drive beyond or above your abilities.
Try to drive within your limits, and in a range where you have absolute control of your car. At any given moment.
You should notice very quickly how much more relaxed and therefore more conscious your driving will become over time.
You will make less and less mistakes, to the point where you will run laps faster then you ever thought it might be possible.
Crashes or spins will become a relict of the past as your new driving mindset and newly established driving approach is going to compensate all of your formerly established bad driving habits.
You will enjoy GT in all it's glory.
And one more thing.
Try not to get discouraged by accidentally making mistakes.
Even with all these tips they most probably are keen to happen.
If you have any questions just feel free to ask.
I'm here to help and absolutely convinced that you will make the transition happen very soon.
Heads up and stay safe 😁
It really makes me sad that you are not enjoying or at least do seem to not enjoy your new gear.
I read all of your posts across all different threads you made in regard of your problems you encounter with your gear.
I tried to elaborate on what the reason might be causing you to experience such a suboptimal feedback.
Well, first of all, it is definitely a learning process coming from a d pad switching to a wheel.
I think we all have had to make that transition and adapt to the complexity and different input method a wheel / pedal setup requires.
This transition process might take more or less time, depending on many factors.
But in general we all made it, so will you too.
No doubt about it.
But in order to make sure that this process doesn't feel like a total pita, some things should be taken into consideration which I'm going to explain in the following.
First of all make sure that all of your gear is working appropriately.
You can check its functions in the game menu under calibration settings.
If everything works as intended we are ready to move on to the second step, which will be the actual driving itself.
I would highly recommend you to choose a slower road car for the beginning.
Stick to this car for a undefined period of time.
Choose a track which you are familiar with and slowly start turning your laps, driving the car consciously.
Pay attention to what's happening on the screen and how it is felt through your hands.
This is a very important process because being overwhelmed with such a vast amount of wheel feedback, it can be very much an overkill in the beginning.
Hence you absolutely shouldn't aim for lap times or the fastest possible way to turn your laps.
Actually the complete opposite is the way to go.
The best advice I can give you is to drive your car exactly the way you would do it in real life too.
No risky or dangerous speeds, not over revving the engine, very early upshifts and very late down shifts.
You should notice that by just doing this your whole driving process will feel way more calmed and conscious.
You should slowly start to get an understanding how certain FFB effects impact the perceived feeling in your hands.
Because unfortunately I must agree that some FFB effects are very distracting and misleading in what actually is happening on screen, hence leading to false assumptions and in the end wrong decisions operating the Wheel.
So to make sure to get the most possible and needed feedback in order to navigate your vehicle naturally and intuitive, I always suggest to concentrate on what distracts you and then filter out these sensations by entering the tuning menu on your Wheelbase.
From here you can precisely adjust and get rid of most of these unwanted effects.
Same goes for the other end too as you can also adjust especially the effects you wish to feel even more precise and direct.
It's actually a balancing process until you reach your desired FFB.
Keep in mind there is no right or wrong unless the perceived FFB feels right to you.
Hence you shouldn't just copy paste settings because everyone has a different understanding and perception of what feels right in ones hands.
Of course there are some basic settings which shouldn't be overdone but in general you should look for your individual FFB setup.
So to sum it up, I'd say that simply take your time.
Don't rush it.
Drive consciously.
Pay attention to the on screen happening and how it interacts with your Wheel.
Drive stock road cars which are not overpowered.
400 to 500pp. At most.
Stick to one car. Very important.
Because with every car change, the FFB changes too and in order to get a correct understanding for how FFB works it's counter productive to swap cars in the beginning.
And one more thing.
Don't aim for lap times or in general don't try to drive beyond or above your abilities.
Try to drive within your limits, and in a range where you have absolute control of your car. At any given moment.
You should notice very quickly how much more relaxed and therefore more conscious your driving will become over time.
You will make less and less mistakes, to the point where you will run laps faster then you ever thought it might be possible.
Crashes or spins will become a relict of the past as your new driving mindset and newly established driving approach is going to compensate all of your formerly established bad driving habits.
You will enjoy GT in all it's glory.
And one more thing.
Try not to get discouraged by accidentally making mistakes.
Even with all these tips they most probably are keen to happen.
If you have any questions just feel free to ask.
I'm here to help and absolutely convinced that you will make the transition happen very soon.
Heads up and stay safe 😁
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RS60NR
Premium
- 256
- United States
@NevilleNobody important point by @PirovacBoy above - pedal calibration
Default for Fanatec is auto calibration in the Fanatec control panel. If you have that enabled the pedals will set the max range for each only when you press the pedal down and hold for 2-3secs at max
In GT7, if you haven’t set the max on the pedals first, as you drive and hold accel and brake these values may change while you are driving so may cause some confusing results
So set manual range on the PC first or each time you start the base set the auto range first by holding max accel and brake pressure on the load cell. These are max values that are then sent to the game
In GT7 then go to options, controllers and check the calibration - set the max min and deadzone once - it will stick and match the max settings from the pedals from then on
You can then exit the setting menu see the response on the top screen to make sure its matching your inputs or check it later
Default for Fanatec is auto calibration in the Fanatec control panel. If you have that enabled the pedals will set the max range for each only when you press the pedal down and hold for 2-3secs at max
In GT7, if you haven’t set the max on the pedals first, as you drive and hold accel and brake these values may change while you are driving so may cause some confusing results
So set manual range on the PC first or each time you start the base set the auto range first by holding max accel and brake pressure on the load cell. These are max values that are then sent to the game
In GT7 then go to options, controllers and check the calibration - set the max min and deadzone once - it will stick and match the max settings from the pedals from then on
You can then exit the setting menu see the response on the top screen to make sure its matching your inputs or check it later
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- 3,317
- Canada
Firstly, appreciate the response Pirovac
Maybe Osciallation is a better word than twisting. Just ran a few laps at SPA in the Time trial with the NSX, lovely car to drive but yeah on longer faster corners the wheel constantly judders left and right, it's so, so off putting. Is there a way I can change the setting in the Fanatec APP to give me more vibration and less oscillation? The twisting/oscillation left and right on a constant radius turn is so alien.
RS6, can confirm I have calibrated the pedals, they feel OK though I am still learning to trust pressure not travel. I do wish there was more travel but I have the elastometer mod so that apparently helps.
I know you are all saying road cars but for now the time trial gives me something to work against. I am FINALLY getting something resembling some pace through Pouhon, which is a great test for one's "feel". Biggest challenge right now is judging grip, I cannot feel the understeer so either plough wide or take the turn too early as I am going by visuals not feel.
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RS60NR
Premium
- 256
- United States
The oscillations being talked about occur at high speeds on cars w racing tires - if you let go of the wheel it will spin back and forth strongly. It is a result of the GT7 physics/tire grip and the FFB signals used interacting and they have not yet sorted itFirstly, appreciate the response Pirovac
Maybe Osciallation is a better word than twisting. Just ran a few laps at SPA in the Time trial with the NSX lovely car to drive but yeah on longer faster corners the wheel constantly judders left and right, it's so, so off putting. Is there a way I can change the setting in the Fanatec APP to give me more vibration and less oscillation? The twisting/oscillation left and right on a constant radius turn is so alien.
Several ways to turn it down a bit in the various posts on this. Lowering sensitivity in game, increasing NDP, decreasing FOR in the wheel tuning are ways to lower it but this affects other FF response so you’ll have to try tuning it to your taste
Varies by car too as the suspension geometry or modeling seems to be part of it
EDIT: NDP not DPR which has no effect - sorry brain Fade
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- 3,317
- Canada
- 3,317
- Canada
There is one tech problem I cannot overcome, not a biggie. I have tried to re-calibrate the centering of my wheel a few times and not been successful. To clarify, if the wheel is dead straight it is accurate, so the on screen display and the fanatec app both show 0%, however, if I let the wheel go it always sits 4 degrees to the right. Is it the release collar things doing that as the weight on it seems to be distributed unevenly?
Not a massive issue just a bit weird on the longer straights as i need to keep correcting.
Not a massive issue just a bit weird on the longer straights as i need to keep correcting.
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- 16
- gelagmeierter
Thats normal behavior due to the placememt of the magnets on the rotor. In Menues when there is no force applied it sags to one side.
That you have do correct on straivhts as well may be because your overall low ffb torque setting in gt7 (you said something in the range of 1 to 3?)
That you have do correct on straivhts as well may be because your overall low ffb torque setting in gt7 (you said something in the range of 1 to 3?)
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- 3,317
- Canada
No it always site to the right no matter the setting or situation. So if I let the wheel go, it "sags" 4 degrees to the right. So I cannot lightly control the wheel on straights, i have to keep the wheel straight myself.
330_D
Premium
- 1,142
- Upstate NY
The oscillations aren't great. I like the higher end of FFB generally but with high downforce cars I have to turn the FFB down and generally the sensitivity in game as well. I have from a very early moment owning the DD pro, used @PirovacBoy settings and they really have always been solid for me. I suggest trying this and adjusting your FFB and sensitivity in game appropriately (lol) to the car you are in. Higher with road cars and lower for most race cars.
I'm not a settings master here, just a thief of those who put in work finding things that work, but these couple things helped me a lot.
Good luck. You'll figure it out. Lots and lots of good advice in here.
I'm not a settings master here, just a thief of those who put in work finding things that work, but these couple things helped me a lot.
Good luck. You'll figure it out. Lots and lots of good advice in here.
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bliprunner
Premium
- 169
- United Kingdom
- bliprunner
This does sound a bit suspect to me.
In the menus if I turn my wheel 45 degrees and let go it moves back to roughly centre, not absolute dead centre but close enough. It tends to overshoot slightly when returning.
When driving, for example starting the latest TT at the bus stop chicane, if I release my grip the wheel does want to go right very gently due to the camber of the track. Then after the bus stop it wants to turn left quite gently, again due the camber.
At the end of the Kemmel the camber is quite flat and I don't feel any pull either way.
These sideways pulls are not usually noticeable, and in a straight line you generally need to maintain some grip on the wheel to keep it steady, otherwise oscillations start, especially in race cars.
But if your wheel is always going to the right then there is definitely a problem here.
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