Fanatec Podium Direct Drive Wheel Bases Thread
- Thread starter super_gt
- 3,719 comments
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- 505
And about torque - I have installed many millions of dollars of production lines, including a German pet food bag machine which had 24 servo motors in it. About 10 years ago, each servo motor cost 10,000 euro each. Cutting nylon tough laminated plastic film, the servo was accurate enough to cut the plastic with a vertically moving knife onto a flat steel bed (the plastic would stop, be cut sealed, and then move on, then stop, be cut, etc etc) the servo motor was so accurate that the blade/knife didn't touch the steel bed while going through and cutting the plastic perfectly. Hence knife life was extended to over a million cycles. Hence no downtime on long production runs which also saves time and increases productivity.
But now, servo motors are cheap. You get them in your air conditioners, in your fridges now. Car steering uses them. There are lots of varieties. But talking of torque
in theory the maximum talk of a servo motor is how much heat you want to put through it. Because you can just screw the power up and the torque will increase. So talking of torque is a bit misleading IMO. Longevity is also an issue and a standard 3 year with an optional 5 year which sounds like it would apply to professional use, is a benefit being offered by Fanatec, well done but it doesn't surprise me from a company that wants to be the major player.
I do expect DD to become cheap as time goes forward though. In fact as some have said here, DD can be affordable even from smaller companies - companies who lack the economy of scale and buying power of Fanatec. And Fanatec has economies of scale, plus they profit from getting their wheelbases in and then selling wheels, pedals and other accessories. The gold mine is in the accessories, the key to getting new customers is a brilliantly enticing entry price for a DD wheelbase. Get them in then count the money.
Probably because Fanatec don't even know what to price their DD1 at. Hence their auctions.
Fanatec's problem IMO is that if the DD1 is overpriced (too highly priced), the market will be much smaller. But in the first year anyway, demand for the DD1 will outstrip supply. But if they overprice it, it will still sell lots in the first year despite a high price, but then the market will shrink, and Fanatec will then have to lower its price. And that will hurt the important customers who were first came in and bought DD1s. And those DD1 buyers are price sensitive. They are price sensitive because they are not buying the DD2. They don't want the price for their DD1 to drop, or to be threatened by a cheaper alternative DD wheelbase. Keeping the price the same also allows DD1 buyers to upgrade to DD2s. The smart tactic is to sell the DD1 for a price that in 18 months will still be competitive, even against a potential Thrustmaster DD wheel. Keep the DD1 used value high and get people to upgrade. Make money on the wheels and other accessories rather than the wheelbase.
And IMO the profit should come from the wheels, because that attracts Fanatec into their eco system - the wheelbase. People like me who plans to race on the PS4 and a PC, I just might buy an Elite and if I do so, I'll keep it for years. But if the entry for the DD1 is attractive I'll go for it. I'll bid on the DD1 for PS4 if Australians can do so. But if I miss out, who knows what I'll do. I think DD is a must though, as its simpler technology. But I don't think I should pay a premium for R&D that will be paid for over the life of the product, not in the first year. That's bad strategy.
Fanatec can mass market the DD1 and change the game. And they know that since they've also put in the premium DD2. Really, they should have labelled the DD2 the Podium, and labelled the DD1 a ClubSport. That way you differentiate the DD2.
Fact is that belts are inferior, less reliable and more expensive to assemble with more parts than a DD wheelbase. I know how prices in servo motors have come down.
But now, servo motors are cheap. You get them in your air conditioners, in your fridges now. Car steering uses them. There are lots of varieties. But talking of torque
in theory the maximum talk of a servo motor is how much heat you want to put through it. Because you can just screw the power up and the torque will increase. So talking of torque is a bit misleading IMO. Longevity is also an issue and a standard 3 year with an optional 5 year which sounds like it would apply to professional use, is a benefit being offered by Fanatec, well done but it doesn't surprise me from a company that wants to be the major player.I do expect DD to become cheap as time goes forward though. In fact as some have said here, DD can be affordable even from smaller companies - companies who lack the economy of scale and buying power of Fanatec. And Fanatec has economies of scale, plus they profit from getting their wheelbases in and then selling wheels, pedals and other accessories. The gold mine is in the accessories, the key to getting new customers is a brilliantly enticing entry price for a DD wheelbase. Get them in then count the money.
Probably because Fanatec don't even know what to price their DD1 at. Hence their auctions.
Fanatec's problem IMO is that if the DD1 is overpriced (too highly priced), the market will be much smaller. But in the first year anyway, demand for the DD1 will outstrip supply. But if they overprice it, it will still sell lots in the first year despite a high price, but then the market will shrink, and Fanatec will then have to lower its price. And that will hurt the important customers who were first came in and bought DD1s. And those DD1 buyers are price sensitive. They are price sensitive because they are not buying the DD2. They don't want the price for their DD1 to drop, or to be threatened by a cheaper alternative DD wheelbase. Keeping the price the same also allows DD1 buyers to upgrade to DD2s. The smart tactic is to sell the DD1 for a price that in 18 months will still be competitive, even against a potential Thrustmaster DD wheel. Keep the DD1 used value high and get people to upgrade. Make money on the wheels and other accessories rather than the wheelbase.
And IMO the profit should come from the wheels, because that attracts Fanatec into their eco system - the wheelbase. People like me who plans to race on the PS4 and a PC, I just might buy an Elite and if I do so, I'll keep it for years. But if the entry for the DD1 is attractive I'll go for it. I'll bid on the DD1 for PS4 if Australians can do so. But if I miss out, who knows what I'll do. I think DD is a must though, as its simpler technology. But I don't think I should pay a premium for R&D that will be paid for over the life of the product, not in the first year. That's bad strategy.
Fanatec can mass market the DD1 and change the game. And they know that since they've also put in the premium DD2. Really, they should have labelled the DD2 the Podium, and labelled the DD1 a ClubSport. That way you differentiate the DD2.
Fact is that belts are inferior, less reliable and more expensive to assemble with more parts than a DD wheelbase. I know how prices in servo motors have come down.
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Corsa
Premium
- 2,104
- United States
Dude, no offence really, but to have 8000+ from 2011 till now - means you have over 3 hours every single day without any exeptionthis is simply impossible!
Edit: I have CSR Elite from launch, too - great wheel!!
Dude,
It's extremely possible, do you not race everyday?
How long is your wheel powered on while your not racing?
PC on/wheel on racing or surfing the web it's always on.
- 634
- Sofia
Oh, if you meaned that is "On" 8000+ hours - Ok. I can`t see why you keep it "On" just to be "On", but if you did it - that doesn`t prove how reliable this product is to point 8000+!
Anyway this convo is not for this thread! Oh, and I race when I want to do it - every day is impossible, but as I said in another topic we can discuss this!
Cheers!
user3392345
(Banned)
- 702
- Antarctica
1400€ incl rim of choice and i hit the buy button
The industrial motors in other DD wheels are not even being stressed by sim racing and I’ve yet to see someone say theirs has broken.
With this Fanatec one an extra year of warranty included on the DD2 (standard for Europe 2 years on DD1) personally doesn’t inspire anymore confidence as I’ve had issues with Fanatec gear in the past as have many others. If they were confident it would be just as reliable as othe DD solutions then it should be 5 years as standard not a €300 extra IMO.
A brand new custom motor, nobody can really say at this point how reliable it will be so we’ll have to see.
- 131
- Denmark
- MortenCR
It's so fun watching everyone come in here to defend their purchase of other DD setups.
I think you have to compare the products in a different way.
I currently own a OSW and have previously owned nearly every Fanatec, Logitech and Thrustmaster top-of-the-range wheel on the market since 2010. And I pre-ordered the Fanatec DD2. My take on it is this.
The Fanatec DD wheelbase is like a console. Cutting edge technology at the time of launch. Plug & Play, ready to go out of the box, everything you plug into it just works. But the customer pays a slight premium for the user friendliness.
The OSW is like a PC. Everything can be changed or upgraded with time. But have to be willing to invest the time/money and be prepared to fiddle and troubleshoot when things go wrong. Custom wheels and button boxes are nice options to personalize your setup, and gives a real sense of pride and joy. But... A complete OSW setup always ends up costing much more than you think!
- 634
- Sofia
For the warranty I think you are not right. Other wheel DD brands don`t give 5 years like standart warranty - why Fanatec to do it??? We speak here like DD wheel is a motor only device,but this is not true and we all know this. The Fanatec DD wheel have electronics inside , LCD screen etc...5 years is very long period to be obligated to repair/change faulty device. The extra warranty period for a cost is good decision IMO...
That's it reading all the posts, I've decided I'm going to do track days. 
Facts:
Took some time to go through the video again, so I hope my effort has not been in vain.
Facts:
- Motor designed by Fanatec and it is the first specialised sim racing motor. 11'50" - 11'54"
- Very big investment Fanatec ever made. 11'20"
- Very stronge and very dangerous wheel with a safety dongle at the back and if you remove that, you are going to unlock the full power and you will get the real thing as on the race track. 13'40"
- Outrunner servo motor used for example in e-bikes. 15'15"
- acceleration of the wheels means responsiveness. 18'15"
- Nice carbon fibre finish. 19'05"
- Developing very advanced software. 21'20"
- DD2 is going to be console compatible. 24'15"
- DD2 doesn't have a limiter (unlimited rotation) 24'45"
- Data going from the wheel to the base wireless. 25'05"
- DD1 & DD2 are also used in the automotive industrie for professional use or and thus they have CAN-bus. 24'20" - He did say "we are using those products in the automotive industrie" and put his hands on the DD1 and DD2. So I guess the DD1 has CAN bus as well.
- All existing steering wheels will be compatible with the DD wheels. 35'
- Both products will be Xbox compatible as well. 35'45"
- Third version, yeah, a third version yeah. 36' New Formula style racing wheel and a DD1 base developed with F1 esport series. It si going to be PS4 brand(ed) product. First official DD wheel for the PS4. 36'50"
- From 42'20" an animation and info about the DD1, DD2 wheels, motor and features.
Took some time to go through the video again, so I hope my effort has not been in vain.
Stuff is shipped from Melbourne which I think is just the distributor and the repairs are by a different company. Never had major issues with support, the initial support is done via the German office so you play a bit of ping pong via emails and can be a bit tiring trying to explain things but nothing a reminder of Australian consumer laws doesn't fix 👍
Have purchased replacement parts for out of warranty gear, new stuff and had to send one thing back for repair under warranty which and while like I said can have the odd issue with getting your issues across to German support but in the end no issues once a RMA had been issued with the local contingent.
Should have been more specific in saying a 5 year warranty on the motor 2/3 on electronics would give me faith the motor is durable.
Unfortunately for me past history of a lot of their version one gear has shown issues with silly cost cutting in certain areas that I’ve experienced myself which has put me on edge when it comes to Fanatec gear.
- 351
- United States
- BuckFly
- BuckFly
- 3,826
The biggest issue for me is that the price is over 1k ( thought it was meant to be accessible?). But more of an issue, its 1500 with no rim. You're looking at over 2k with a rim and a 5 year warranty. Shocking.
- 634
- Sofia
I understand what you mean, but I think they learned some lessons from the past and doing things better! I will like to see "5 years for the motor warranty"... I have 2 let say not concerns, but hopes... first one is that I hope they sent to beta testers enough units to be tested well and not to continue development with first customers, which can be seen in the past...second one is I hope that even achieved reliable and well made product they will not launch newer version with something improved every year like V1.5, V2 etc ...we remember the Clubsport shifter launch with pots and soon after that hall sensors version.
As I said I am sure they learned a lot and from now on - Fanatec will go only UP! That is my wish to them!
P.S.
I want Fanatec to send me one motor to add it to electrobike (Thomas said it is motor used in electrobikes) and to make tons of miles on it with sport electrobike!
) LoL
- 5,051
- Netherlands
Thats why they still offer the CSW v2.5.
- 4,937
- Bulgaria
For the price of CSW v2.5 I would prefer to buy Sim-Plicity SW7C.
- 5,051
- Netherlands
I think the auction is held more for customer engagement, PR and marketing purposes. Maybe they are still figuring out licensing costs (PS4 and F1) and may already have a price in their head. And again dont blame a company for its pricing. If you think its overpriced there are alternatives, they have every right to make a profit. If people dont buy the Podium because of the high price... the prices will come down eventually. Overpricing is only an issue if there are no alternatives! (for example big pharma).
I agree that Fanatec should focus on selling the wheelbase for more competitive prices to make money on volume and peripherals, similair to the ps4 was sold very cheaply to earn on games etc. But like i stated before i hope Logitech or TM to bring out their own console compatible DD....that will influence the price more then anything.
I suspect a lot of cheap CSW v2.5 will be available on ebay and second hand market when the DD2 preorders are delivered...
*Going to be looking for a secondhand Fanatec wheel so I have a cheap rim to put on my DD wheel*.
The third version, the F1 esport version, is an official PS4 wheel. But what if the PS5 gets released @Fanatec... ?
The third version, the F1 esport version, is an official PS4 wheel. But what if the PS5 gets released @Fanatec... ?
- 1
- United States
I am going to wait for the hands-on reviews from trusted reviewers. At the stated price, the DD2 is not interesting to me. I am not looking to have the wheel wrestled from my hands by the force of the motor, but rather looking to have the fidelity of the DD base. I have tried an OSW on a couple of occasions and the feeling of loss of traction is so much greater with the DD. Since I am currently invested in the Fanatec ecosystem, I was thinking the DD1 at $799 was going to be the entry in to Direct Drive I was waiting for, now I am not so sure that's going to be the landing price. Time will tell. I certainly don't begrudge them their pricing prerogative, but I do think they've overshot the mark. I hope that the price of their F1 affiliation doesn't end up costing the users who don't really care about F1 or its officially licensed products.
- 5,051
- Netherlands
Thrustmaster, maybe. Logitech, never (my opinion).
This.
Edit: who is this SimRacingGirl.
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- 4,937
- Bulgaria
- 1,334
- US. North East region
The SW7C (or SW10C for that matter) are looking really attractive... I don't mind setting it up, and hiding cables is easy, so I ain't got no qualms there. Fiddling with the FFB as some would say, is perfectly acceptable. After all, I already do that with the PC sims I play. I wish Fanatec got under $800 for the DD1 base, but since they didn't I'm going elsewhere.
I'm sure the wheel will do well for them, I just won't have one.
I'm sure the wheel will do well for them, I just won't have one.
- 634
- Sofia
Close to impossible is DD1 to be below 800 or close to 800$...
- 611
- Aliso Viejo, CA
- Renown787B
For the uninitiated...She's a YouTuber that got into Sim Racing a few years ago. Her boyfriend is into it and she got hooked after some of his friends told her girls can't be fast at sim racing. Challenge accepted as they say! She proved them wrong and has been doing YouTube videos allowing her to share her new passion for the hobby ever since. Check out this interview: She's really articulate and IMO a great ambassador for the hobby. Thomas was smart in hiring her to do PR work. As a marketing director for the brand I work for, I would have hired her in a heartbeat to represent us. Anyway, check out her channel. She's articulate and presents a lot of good, concise and detailed information on what she reviews. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCcXmo4byaxhwuW8RCySL0ng
