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Fanatec Podium Direct Drive Wheel Bases Thread
- Thread starter super_gt
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I think there is a market for high end console peripherials.
Honestly it is not the PC itself that is anoying but more the software side of it.
Everytime I decide to play something (especially if it is something new). There is always something wrong.
Sometimes it is just windows update that messed up USB controller drivers
Other times there is a problem with triplesceen support etc.
When we decide to play something with friends .. we usualy end up spending more time setting everything up then playing.
Having a pure simracing rig and setting everything up before hand - would fix those issues but they are still anoying.
I work on my PC all day so it is easier to hook my wheel to the TV and leave it there. (especialy if I plan to play just a short session).
I liked iRacing alot but ended up not using my subscription most of the time because it was anoying setting everything up at the end of the day.
GTsport was a perfect fix for all my problems.
Only other alternative would be to get a second pc but then it becomes a space issue.
- 505
I don't think we are off topic because the wheelbases are the core issue with PS4 compatibility. One would hope that the DD wheelbase will have as much PS4 compatibility as the Elite wheelbase does, which is somewhat dependant too on the game developer ie for GT Sport, its Polyphony. The feature you describe above if supported by Polyphony, would vibrate when the wheels lost traction when braking, and the accelerator pedal would vibrate if the drive wheels when accelerating lost traction. This doesn't happen at the moment which is evidence that right now polyphony do not properly support the Fanatec hardware.
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- MortenCR
I think one of the biggest reasons PC players shy away from consoles is that consoles are closed eco-systems, where the console creator (Sony, Microsoft, Nintendo etc.) owns all the rights and therefore controls the lifespan of every peripheral. You could still use a 20 year old steering wheel on a PC, but that's not possible on consoles.
Corsa
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That's true and one of the reasons I moved to PC was the freedom of running anything.
I think Fanatec is smashing icebergs with this announcement it's nothing but great news for all of us even if you don't like the wheel or price.
It's going to force Thrustmaster and possibly others to start R&D if they haven't already.
- 634
- Sofia
When you have powerfull PC and can run every game on best graphics and max FPS - switching to consoles is like going back in time, mostly of the limited FPS and closed system for controller peripherals etc... but the consoles have their placein the marker - easy to use plug n play solutions with decent graphics and as we see now even high end wheels like the DD PS4...I solved the problem Consoles vs PC very easy - just own them all
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- MortenCR
Direct Drive steering wheels are still very expensive to produce and sell. I'm not sure Thrustmaster or Logitech are willing to put in the cash on R&D, just to sell a couple thousand units a year. Due to having the F1 License, Fanatec as a company could very well be bought out by a large company with growth ambitions in e-sports, like Logitech.
Fanatec has confirmed they are not offering the ability to purchase an extended warranty for the PS4 DD. I am greatly disappointed in this that they'll stand behind the DD1 and DD2 with extended warranty periods but not one specific for the PS4. This will absolutely make me rethink my purchase decision. Yes, I understand it's a 2 year warranty and credit cards can extend it. To me it's the principle that you have 3 products all based on the same platform, charging a substantial amount of money for each and not offering the same coverage for each.
Corsa
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It's kind of crazy that Logitech is such a big company but yet makes such a POS entry-level sim racing product compared to Fanatec. I have Harmony elite home theater remotes from Logitech as well as their PRO mouse and keyboard and I think they make terrific products. Also their marketing is top notch and they sponsor McLaren - one of my favorite F1 teams despite their recent struggles on the grid. It would make sense for Logitech to buy Fanatec if they have the capital.
Also - I decided to apply my $ 350 Fanatec credit to my DD1 so now I'm getting the 2018 F1 clubsport wheel and the DD1 for $ 1000 .... not a bad deal IMO.
Also - I decided to apply my $ 350 Fanatec credit to my DD1 so now I'm getting the 2018 F1 clubsport wheel and the DD1 for $ 1000 .... not a bad deal IMO.
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Well sorry I should correct my previous statement - they just send you $ 350 back to your credit card via PayPal - I guess I meant to say that I'm not going to wait for the 2019 F1 wheel .... I'm happy just sticking with my DD1 & 2018 F1 Clubsport Wheel and applying the $ 350 to that purchase.
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- MortenCR
Logitech buying Fanatec?
No. It was just a thought I shared as an example. Logitech haven't made an all-new wheel since the G25 about 10 years ago. So I thought it would be obvious for them to simply buy Fanatec and the F1 license that comes with it, to bring fresh mid-range and (ultra)high-end products into their lineup, rather than starting from scratch. Looking at Fanatec's yearly profits, the company probably wouldn't be that expensive to buy for one of the bigger players in the PC/console peripheral industry.
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- MortenCR
I wouldn't like it either. Being a small company brings Fanatec closer to fans and customers, who gets to have a bigger influence on the direction of future products. Afterall, the CEO of giants like Logitech or Thrustmaster would never visit a forum like this.
Corsa
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I do too, as well as their customer service.
I ordered a P1 rim on 7 December, it shipped same day and has arrived this evening.
I ordered a CSL Elite wheelbase yesterday, it's shipped already and showing Friday delivery.
Their warehouse is in California, I'm on the east coast absolutely staggered by the fast processing and shipping given the holiday busy season.
I sent @DomB_Fanatec a message he replied very quickly with an answer. It's professional customer interaction you don't see everyday gentlemen they are definitely a respectable outfit in my book, if this CSL performs like they did they've earned a loyal customer.
- 505
IMO a direct drive wheel should be cheaper to make than a wheelbase which not only has a motor, but requires extra mechanicals to allow its wheel to rotate.
IMO the cost of DD wheels is currently due to their prime differentiation - "power". The other cost is due to R&D. Much of the R&D was actually done by others, who I presume, proved it could be done. Thrustmaster were rumoured to be making a DD wheel - but it never appeared. Fanatec have done it though, and with two power levels.
Eventually the R&D will be paid for and then its possible a lower power and hence more affordable DD wheel will arrive. A lower powered DD motor with electronics already developed would have less heat issues, allow medium quality housings, and be much cheaper to make. But that decision would require some marketing expertise. IMO only competition and lower material costs would lower prices, and why would experienced makers in the sim wheel marketplace destroy their profits by selling at low profit margins? I had presumed the best hope for lower prices is that Thrustmaster would make a DD wheel but if they did I doubt it would sell much cheaper than the lesser DD wheel offered from Fanatec and how would they repay their R&D without selling at high profit margins?
What are the numbers? Well - kudos published Gran Turismo Sport sales, and they are 5.2 million. 6% of those had people who raced on line more than 20 races. So presuming that 6% would make up the total GT Sport market place who'd benefit from a wheel, that means the total world market place is 330,000 players for GT Sport. Include the other consoles and sims, lets say there is a total market place of 600,000.
So if one in ten of those players bought a wheel setup, that means the market place is 60,000. If that percentage was 20%, then double my estimates following.
If a wheel lasts 5 years - that means the market place is 12,000 per year. Lets say a full kit of quality wheel etc seat included costs $US 2,000. So, the total retail annual revenue would be only 24 million. 50 million if 20% invested in a wheel setup. 100 million if 40% did. and more if you can upset on extra, like gears and better pedals, wheels, etc etc.
Its a high risk venture for Logitech to enter a market where the sales cannot be viewed as very large.
IMO the cost of DD wheels is currently due to their prime differentiation - "power". The other cost is due to R&D. Much of the R&D was actually done by others, who I presume, proved it could be done. Thrustmaster were rumoured to be making a DD wheel - but it never appeared. Fanatec have done it though, and with two power levels.
Eventually the R&D will be paid for and then its possible a lower power and hence more affordable DD wheel will arrive. A lower powered DD motor with electronics already developed would have less heat issues, allow medium quality housings, and be much cheaper to make. But that decision would require some marketing expertise. IMO only competition and lower material costs would lower prices, and why would experienced makers in the sim wheel marketplace destroy their profits by selling at low profit margins? I had presumed the best hope for lower prices is that Thrustmaster would make a DD wheel but if they did I doubt it would sell much cheaper than the lesser DD wheel offered from Fanatec and how would they repay their R&D without selling at high profit margins?
What are the numbers? Well - kudos published Gran Turismo Sport sales, and they are 5.2 million. 6% of those had people who raced on line more than 20 races. So presuming that 6% would make up the total GT Sport market place who'd benefit from a wheel, that means the total world market place is 330,000 players for GT Sport. Include the other consoles and sims, lets say there is a total market place of 600,000.
So if one in ten of those players bought a wheel setup, that means the market place is 60,000. If that percentage was 20%, then double my estimates following.
If a wheel lasts 5 years - that means the market place is 12,000 per year. Lets say a full kit of quality wheel etc seat included costs $US 2,000. So, the total retail annual revenue would be only 24 million. 50 million if 20% invested in a wheel setup. 100 million if 40% did. and more if you can upset on extra, like gears and better pedals, wheels, etc etc.
Its a high risk venture for Logitech to enter a market where the sales cannot be viewed as very large.
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Corsa
Premium
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Especially since your 6% figure includes people like me that have not touched GT Sport in a year, or no longer own a PS4.
Although we never will, I'd be very interested to see some Fanatec, or any other manufacturers sales figures involving wheels.
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- MortenCR
Someone posted a brief summary of Fanatec's books on the Community forum on Fanatec's website (Podium delay message):
Revenue 2016:
10 Mio Eur
Revenue 2017:
17 Mio Eur
Profits after Taxes 2016:
800k Eur
Profits after Taxes 2017:
1.5 Mio Eur
http://www.endor.de/images/pdf/2018/Geschaeftsbericht-Endor-AG-2017.pdf
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So I preordered the limited edition F1 wheel but I also have an Xbox One. Does the limited edition F1 wheel have any features that the new Xbox wheel doesn’t have? I guess I’m confused why you would build hype around a limited edition F1 wheel and then pack all of the same features into a new wheel. Thoughts?
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