Fanatec Wheel Problem

[novadave]

excellent idea - sell a product - when it breaks down send the customer the replacement part and tell him or her to change it themselves = company pockets money that would have been spent on a customer service department.

Thomas - if the transmission in your car broke down would you be happy if BMW offered to ship the parts required to do the job because it would be quicker than waiting for them to do the job.
or how about your BlueRay player has a defective laser head - and Sony tells you not to worry the replacement part is in the mail and we are shipping you a book on how to fix it.

are you serious - come on and get your act together.

 

[Fanatec...]

Many customers chose the option to repair the weel by themselves as it is the fastest option. I just waited 4 weeks to get my Lenovo IBM laptop repaired and wish I could have done it by myself. There is nothing wrong to give the customer the option but of course we are happy to repair it as well.

 

[Shark33]

I like this option as I don't like waiting for the repair.

 

[Mahnegold]

Many customers chose the option to repair the weel by themselves as it is the fastest option. I just waited 4 weeks to get my Lenovo IBM laptop repaired and wish I could have done it by myself. There is nothing wrong to give the customer the option but of course we are happy to repair it as well.

You are correct, it is nice to have an option. But as I mentioned above, your CS department often just says "we send you the parts" instead of saying "we are happy to repair it for you, but if you like to have it fast, we can also send you the parts so that you repair it yourself". You got my point?

 

[richiem2282]

Just got confirmation from UPS on the New GT2, its on the way! They are also sending me a replacement brake sensor and yellow insert in a separate order for my ClubSport Pedals. Thanks very much guys for your help on this and thanks to Thomas for coordinating with his team and getting the issue sorted, I really appreciate it and hope to get back on track with Fanatec again. Cheers guys

Richie

Update:
New GT2 wheel, load cell & yellow insert all arrived, the brake pedal is perfect again, the new GT2 wheel is working flawlessly, great build quality, what you'd expect from Fanatec!

 

[richiem2282]

So, I got my replacement and my saga with Fanatec equipment continues...

 

[mrbasher]

The bearings are shot on the fan. On a "new" fan no less. Interesting. It's most likely the small fan next to the vent. You might get lucky and it's some wires touching the fan blades. However, I have heard my share of worn out fans and that is what they sound like.

If you don't mind me asking.. Was this wheel shipped to you from Arizona?

 

[mrbasher]

Some teflon lube in the fan will help get rid of the sound in the short term. However, it won't for good, you'll need a new fan.

The fan in my laptop finally went after about 6 years and it sounded just like this. Off and on. You can lube it, but it won't get rid of it for good.

 

[BLACK86]

thats the smallest fan screwed to the motor heatsink, happened to me from day 1, i used to bang the case lol and it went away, when that didnt work anymore i took the sticker off the fan and sprayed some wd40 down the hole under it, that fixed the issue for a good few months, now its come back and wd40 does not make a difference anymore

 

[richiem2282]

I'm not sure if it was Arizona. I PM'd Thomas about it on GTPlanet, gonna wait and see what he says. Its not even 30 days in my possession and it's a replacement at that. Will it ever end...

 

[novadave]

i agree with Basher - it is definately the fan near the right side vent
the cause is from misaligned bushings in the fan case.
it probably does it mostly when the wheel has just been turned on and gradually vanishes after a few minutes of use.

 

[JogoAsobi]

There's always the whisper-quiet USB-powered Case Fan + Alternate Vents.

 

[richiem2282]

Update on the GT2 Fan issue.
Spoke with Johannes from Fanatec Tech Support and he is taking care of the issue with my GT2 Wheel. Great to finally speak with him. Thanks Johannes! 👍

 

[RacerXX]

Note that you can replace the fans with better ones if desired pretty easily and inexpensively.

Stock fans:

Motor: 40 mm x 40 mm X 10 mm, 5 volts, two wire.

Case: 30 mm x 30 mm x 10 mm, 5 volts, two wire.

I suggest relocating the case fan to blow on the motor control board's heat sink. This can be done by unscrewing the fan and moving it. Even better is to combine that with additional heat sinking.

 

[JogoAsobi]

Note that you can replace the fans with better ones if desired pretty easily and inexpensively.

Stock fans:

Motor: 40 mm x 40 mm X 10 mm, 5 volts, two wire.

Case: 30 mm x 30 mm x 10 mm, 5 volts, two wire.

I suggest relocating the case fan to blow on the motor control board's heat sink. This can be done by unscrewing the fan and moving it. Even better is to combine that with additional heat sinking.

The case fan is mounted into a receptacle of the heat sink of the Fanatec wheels that use the "Porsche" style cover, this includes the CSR.

Altering the heat sink or internals = void warranty. How do you propose to move the case fan?

Going that far is probably not necessary, there are other factors at play such as poor air flow.

GT3 RS Without Cover

CSR Without Cover (Pardon the quality, Video Screenshot)

​

As I have stated in other posts (many others have too), the CSR runs much cooler than the GT2 & GT3.
Fanatec's marketing materials attribute this to "improved" electronics".

..but I have found this to be largely because the air vents on the CSR provide much better air-flow.

Having all 3 wheels at my disposal as well as a digital thermometer with a probe I did a few experiments.
I found that the the GT2/GT3 will run just as cool as the CSR when JUST the vents are exchanged.

Curiously Fanatec has never updated the GT2/GT3 with the same vents.

Porsche licensing constraints?

Or why not just get a USB-powered fan and mount it over one of the vents?
They are about $10, and this will not void the warranty, some are even sold in pairs.

There is no reason to even open the case by doing this, unless a noisy internal fan needs to be replaced/silenced.

 

[RacerXX]

The case fan is mounted into a receptacle of the heat sink of the Fanatec wheels that use the "Porsche" style cover, this includes the CSR.

Altering the heat sink or internals = void warranty. How do you propose to move the case fan?

Going that far is probably not necessary, there are other factors at play such as poor air flow.

GT3 RS Without Cover

CSR Without Cover (Pardon the quality, Video Screenshot)

​

As I have stated in other posts (many others have too), the CSR runs much cooler than the GT2 & GT3.
Fanatec's marketing materials attribute this to "improved" electronics".

..but I have found this to be largely because the air vents on the CSR provide much better air-flow.

Having all 3 wheels at my disposal as well as a digital thermometer with a probe I did a few experiments.
I found that the the GT2/GT3 will run just as cool as the CSR when JUST the vents are exchanged.

Curiously Fanatec has never updated the GT2/GT3 with the same vents.

Porsche licensing constraints?

Or why not just get a USB-powered fan and mount it over one of the vents?
They are about $10, and this will not void the warranty, some are even sold in pairs.

There is no reason to even open the case by doing this, unless a noisy internal fan needs to be replaced/silenced.

I know my way around devices such as these and am not fearful of opening the cover. In your CSR picture the two local hotspots are the front ½ of the motor, towards it's drive end (where the windings live...I enhance that cooling too). And the silver heat sink on the circuit board which you can see under the spaghetti nest of wiring in the CSR video capture shot = the other local hotspot. That little heat sink cools the mosfets that pass all the drive current to the motor.

I wire tucked all of the wiring. It looks like most of the wires have now vanished. So it looks like high end audio equipment inside, well maybe not quite lol but a huge step in that direction. The little case fan now lives over by the silver heat sink on the large circuit board and is tie wrapped in place. And that heat sink was quintupled in size very easily. This dropped local temperatures when under heavy use by 50º F or more. From too hot to touch it now runs barely over room temperature. Electronics enjoy running cooler and a common rule of thumb is that every 20º F you drop will lead to longevity and performance benefits worth having. Cooler motors have more torque and live longer for instance. Some earlier Fanatecs were burning up the mosfets according to some posts. I've measured the hot and cold FFB torque using a fish scale BTW. It drops with increasing temperature just as theory leads us to expect.

Note that the heat sink area of the circuit board shown above IS different between the CSR and earlier wheels. You can see it in your shot. So Fanatec was right. And if you examine the CSR-E circuit board, the heat sinks for the mosfets that drive the two motors were way more than doubled in size. So they were thinking as I have been. I simply went further (hey it only cost a buck or two) and moving the fan did not even require any rewiring.

Instead of working on the average case temperatures, I went after the two actual hotspots directly. This helps immensely with dropping temperature in those two areas. It works so well that I am contemplating working the motor harder with some other simple but effective tweaks. I should wind up with both stronger FFB and more steering feel. If I get a chance I will also convert to a steering shaft position sensor rather than doing this at the motor (which adds some slop and lag).

On your point about the vent covers, that mostly affects bulk or average temperatures and it is easy to change out those screens anyway. If you run a CSR with the cover off (which I did during all of my testing) those two areas STILL run too hot so it is *not* a vent grill issue IMO. So the vent change you noted mostly changes the bulk temps which I am not too worried about. I am more concerned with the localized hotspots as noted earlier, and those are unaffected by the grills for the most part. I painted my case Plastidip Black and I used gloss black for the CSR screens. I may revise the fans further, going with higher end units such as Noctuas. And perhaps a venting change or two.

 

[novadave]

all these heat sink mods i have done two years ago including rerouting the fans.
but to tell you the truth the best and the simplest way to alleviate these problems is to reduce the force feedback settings ( no more overheating - no more force feedback loss ).
and as far as better electronics go on the CSR - i have an original PWTS and CSR opened at the moment and everything in the base is identical between the two including the fans.
the one thing thing i noticed is that they have installed an EMI Ring on a wiring harness on the left side of the wheel and the PWTS does not have it

 

[RacerXX]

all these heat sink mods i have done two years ago including rerouting the fans.
but to tell you the truth the best and the simplest way to alleviate these problems is to reduce the force feedback settings ( no more overheating - no more force feedback loss ).
and as far as better electronics go on the CSR - i have an original PWTS and CSR opened at the moment and everything in the base is identical between the two including the fans.
the one thing thing i noticed is that they have installed an EMI Ring on a wiring harness on the left side of the wheel and the PWTS does not have it

Hey I run 100% FFB in-game and 100% in-wheel if desired without any heat concerns whatsoever now. Measured, tweaked.

I don't want to have to turn it down. Like in "Spinal Tap" I'd like to be able to turn it up to 11. ;-)

Funny clip: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EbVKWCpNFhY

 

[JogoAsobi]

all these heat sink mods i have done two years ago including rerouting the fans.
but to tell you the truth the best and the simplest way to alleviate these problems is to reduce the force feedback settings ( no more overheating - no more force feedback loss ).
and as far as better electronics go on the CSR - i have an original PWTS and CSR opened at the moment and everything in the base is identical between the two including the fans.
the one thing thing i noticed is that they have installed an EMI Ring on a wiring harness on the left side of the wheel and the PWTS does not have it

Dave is exactly right, and this all old hat stuff, guys doing iRacing were taking hole saws to their Porsche-themed wheels over 2 years ago to install 80mm case fans so the pre-disposition to overheat in said wheels would not nix their chances of in-race failure.

Even one of 🤬 USA staff who is an iRacing member was openly running a similar setup before he got his mitts on a prototype CSR E.

...and yes, turning the FFB down in-game dramatically lowers the tendency to overheat.

...I was going to leave that for another day, but yes both the CSR and GT2/GT3 share identical components, down to the PCBs with a few variations depending on the product's feature-set.

 

[JogoAsobi]

Hey I run 100% FFB in-game and 100% in-wheel if desired without any heat concerns whatsoever now. Measured, tweaked.

For a guy so full of info, where are the pictures to back all of this up?

Most of the other posters here take the time and courtesy to provide that.

Funny videos don't cut it.

 

[RacerXX]

Dave is exactly right, and this all old hat stuff, guys over at InsideSimRacing were taking hole saws to their Porsche-themed 2 years ago to install 80mm case fans so the pre-disposition to overheat in said wheels would not nix their chances of in-game failure.

Even one of 🤬 USA staff who is an ISR member was openly running a similar setup before he got his mitts on a prototype CSR E.

...and yes, turning the FFB down in-game dramatically lowers the tendency to overheat.

...I was going to leave that for another day, but yes both the CSR and GT2/GT3 share identical components, down to the PCBs with a few variations depending on the product's feature-set.

It is not the case fan that is the problem. Those primarily deal with the bulk or overall average temperatures. My view is that the two very specific hot spots need to be considered first of all. The priority is there. Just like is done as a matter of course in PCs.

Do any of you overclock your gaming computer in multiple ways? CPU, Northbridge, RAM, GPU, voltage mods, PSU bumps, heatsinking, MOBO mods, ECU pin mods, ECU honing to heat sinks, etc. If so then you know that you cannot just add a big case fan or run with the side cover off or turn up the room AC a couple degrees.

You need direct at-the-hotspot cooling. Period. That's all I'm doing, and it's way, Way, WAY more effective than running a vent with more holes or whatever.

 

[JogoAsobi]

You need direct at-the-hotspot cooling. Period. That's all I'm doing, and it's way, Way, WAY more effective than running a vent with more holes or whatever.

 

[RacerXX]

Here are some pictures of my heat sink mod. This dramatically cuts motor driver temperatures all by itself. Move the stock 30 mm case fan to blow on the now-larger heat sink, and watch temperatures plummet yet again. Cost? Pocket change.

 

[JogoAsobi]

Here are some pictures of my heat sink mod. This dramatically cuts motor driver temperatures all by itself. Move the stock 30 mm case fan to blow on the now-larger heat sink, and watch temperatures plummet yet again. Cost? Pocket change.

Very nice indeed! 👍 👍 You should sell them!
I think there is a market for them, stock their wheels run way too hot.

 

[novadave]

Hey I run 100% FFB in-game and 100% in-wheel if desired without any heat concerns whatsoever now. Measured, tweaked.

I don't want to have to turn it down. Like in "Spinal Tap" I'd like to be able to turn it up to 11. ;-)

Funny clip: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EbVKWCpNFhY

Hi Racer.
i understand what you are getting at and that is fine but the fact is that not everyone has the ability to open up there equipment and start modifying the internals.
in most cases it is suficient to just lower the settings. when you think of it what is 100 % force feedback - it is all relevent to what you as a driver believe is realistic.
if we start to compare to real life then these wheels are just not realistic at 100% settings.
and as far as heatsinks and fans where do we stop - if we wanted too we could install large enough heatsinks to a point where we would no longer need any fans - hell we could even submerge the circuit boards into liquid silicone and it is sure any overheating is a thing of the past.
i set my force feedback to 50% and never come close to overheating and without any motor problems.
so for the majority turning down the settings is more than enough.
and for the rest of us the sky is the limit

 

[JogoAsobi]

Hi Racer.
i understand what you are getting at and that is fine but the fact is that not everyone has the ability to open up there equipment and start modifying the internals.

Roger that, that's why I suggested a USB-powered fan.

Not as refined, but no need to open the case and possibly void the warranty.

 

[RacerXX]

Hi Racer.
i understand what you are getting at and that is fine but the fact is that not everyone has the ability to open up there equipment and start modifying the internals.
in most cases it is suficient to just lower the settings. when you think of it what is 100 % force feedback - it is all relevent to what you as a driver believe is realistic.
if we start to compare to real life then these wheels are just not realistic at 100% settings.
and as far as heatsinks and fans where do we stop - if we wanted too we could install large enough heatsinks to a point where we would no longer need any fans - hell we could even submerge the circuit boards into liquid silicone and it is sure any overheating is a thing of the past.
i set my force feedback to 50% and never come close to overheating and without any motor problems.
so for the majority turning down the settings is more than enough.
and for the rest of us the sky is the limit

Hey I don't run my real cars at 25 mph on the highway. Why should I drive my fake cars like that? ;-)

With the cover off of one of my CSRs, the miniature stock heat sink showed temperatures in the 130-150ºF range after a few 5 lap races before I chickened out and turned FFB way down. They can certainly get a lot hotter. By adding the heat sink and leaving the fan location alone for the moment the local temps dropped to around 110-115ºF or less. Add the fan relocation (blowing onto the now much larger heat sinks) and now it's hard to crack 80-85ºF and 90ºF is rare. Take a break for 3-4 minutes before another club race in XBL and the temps go to around 75º F, maybe 5º over ambient. With the wheel just sitting on for some time the motor driver chips run about 1-2º over ambient now. Instead of still baking from the last session.

Next comes some hot rodding to use up some of the extra heat capacity…certain circuit and power supply mods come to mind. I'll have to bump motor cooling some more and perhaps mod it or go to a larger one or something. That "big block" T500 motor seems tempting.

 

[RacerXX]

Very nice indeed! 👍 👍 You should sell them!
I think there is a market for them, stock their wheels run way too hot.

Thanks, not sure if there is a market for them read to load on or not. If so I could come up with something nicer. Else just make a how-to set of pictures, I dunno. Or maybe a mod kit with all you need with variations for whatever Fanatec changed over time.

One thing about motor driver mosfet chips. They can "run away" heatwise. Since as they get hot, their internal resistance rises…which then increases their tendency to heat up even more when current passes through them…which raises resistance a bit more…which…oh you get it. It's as though they have a servo action encouraging meltdown unless other parts of the device are deliberately throttled back or clipped. At the same time…if you can keep their temperatures down, they can deliver more signal to the load, the motor instead of turning it into heat. And in a more reliable fashion. It would also be nice to have FFB levels remain as stable as possible regardless if you just started racing or are taking a bathroom break after a gazillion laps.

 

[novadave]

Hey I don't run my real cars at 25 mph on the highway. Why should I drive my fake cars like that? ;-)

With the cover off of one of my CSRs, the miniature stock heat sink showed temperatures in the 130-150ºF range after a few 5 lap races before I chickened out and turned FFB way down. They can certainly get a lot hotter. By adding the heat sink and leaving the fan location alone for the moment the local temps dropped to around 110-115ºF or less. Add the fan relocation (blowing onto the now much larger heat sinks) and now it's hard to crack 80-85ºF and 90ºF is rare. Take a break for 3-4 minutes before another club race in XBL and the temps go to around 75º F, maybe 5º over ambient. With the wheel just sitting on for some time the motor driver chips run about 1-2º over ambient now. Instead of still baking from the last session.

Next comes some hot rodding to use up some of the extra heat capacity…certain circuit and power supply mods come to mind. I'll have to bump motor cooling some more and perhaps mod it or go to a larger one or something. That "big block" T500 motor seems tempting.

what on earth does speed have to do with force feedback.
there is an enormous difference between reality and simulated.
are you trying to say that the steering wheel in your car attempts to rip out of your hands while driving