FFB 1.12 Update

  • Thread starter DRambo
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At the end of the day, the issue is not with the quality of feedback. It's about the quantity. It doesn't matter what setting you think is most realistic, because we all have different preferences and arm strengths. Pre 1.12 we were able to adjust the strength from 1-10. Now no matter what settings you use it's still way too light for some cars with Logitech wheels. And that is the crux of the issue here. PD need to fix the broken car's FFT slider so they work (note I did not mention fixing the feedback model or the car's physics itself - it's just the option settings).

From the hotfix announcement, they seem to already know about the problem:
With certain cars, the [Force Feedback Max. Torque] value found in the [Steering Characteristics] page within the [Steering Controller] category of the [Options] screen in the [MENU] (accessible by pressing the START button) was not working as intended.

But obviously some cars are still broken. For Logitech users, to know what I'm talking about, drive the Red Bull Junior and then the Lotus 97T with the same wheel settings. The difference is night and day. The RB is weighty and almost feels the same as pre 1.12, whereas the Lotus has no resistance at all.
 
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This game is growing up...This work on the new feedback makes al lot of sense: Many patterns of adjustments for many different cars. One step ahead...
 
After spending more time testing with different cars I think FFB before the hot fix had a better feel. Is there a way to undo the latest hot fix?
 
Seems to be a lot of different opinions on the force feedback. On the plus side,at least PD is working on giving us more adjustment in feedback characteristics. I wonder if this was the issue with the T500 people were having a few months back with the TS030 on la sarthe? They were saying the wheel was jerking out of there hands,they must have been testing feedback. Like I said,at least they are working on improving it.
 
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There is no way in hell that we'll be getting decent feedback again for a while. PD is going to be super gun shy about lowering wheel torque again to increase the ceiling for ffb. There is no way around the two to increase feedback. To get more of one, you have to lower the other. It is JUST like an audio speaker. One or the other or find a happy medium for everyone (based on this forum, the happy medium will never be reached).
This sort of highlights the real problem. PD should just set up the game with sliders for all the different effects and let us adjust accordingly to suit or own personal preference. PC sims do this quite effectively and I didn't realize how much my G27 had to offer until I went that route. They could even do a little app that would measure clipping and allow us to fine tune to the maximum FFB possible with each individual wheel, with a set of feedback parameters that suit our individual tastes. This one-size-fits-all approach to things just doesn't work for everyone.
 
I'm been using the 7/8 setting on my dfgt after the hot fix for a while and it makes my wheel feel like how it was before the update but much smoother when I turn the wheel into the corners. It feels light if the front wheels is in the air (close to real life) and I can feel the amount of grip the car have. It is sensitive around special stage route x.
 
Relative to 3 million+ units sold it's nothing. And there were many positive responses as well. One can't deny that the FFB was too light, it's PD responsibility to find the right balance, not to make knee-jerk reactions. PC games have no trouble with this, the responsibility lies solely with PD, not the players.
PC Games?...... Actually, it seems that Next Car Game (early access) may have suffered in a similar way to how @332i appears to describe the GT6 situation. There was a new build released earlier in the year that lasted around a week before a hot"fix" came. The new driving model was rich and involved, but it wasn't what people were used to. Some of them whinged and whined, and the babies got their bottle. See, passives tend to be disregarded, which means that the flavour that the whingers and whiners bring to the table is concentrated.

I doubt that we can change how a developer reacts to feedback, but we might be able to change what feedback they're given.

* That's feedback, and not feedback btw...... clearly.
 
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I really loved the FFB post 1.12,pre "hotfix",it was beautiful,not this drowned out by damping and centre spring crap.If only they had an option to go back,in saying that,what we have now is much better than pre 1.12.

But why,oh why give us a taste of the brilliance that was post 1.12,pre "hotfix" only to have it taken away?I'm using a fanatec 911 turbo s,clubsport v1 pedals,with a 350mm veilside steering wheel mod(off my old 180sx i might add :D)
 
VBR
DFGT is a very good wheel, even better than the G25's wheel in some ways (RA Function buttons, more buttons on wheel etc), although the DFGT's pedals are rubbish. I tried my friends DFGT on GT5 & it produced a little bit more FFB than my G25. Another friends has just bought a DFGT too. I used a DF Pro for many years before getting my G25.

Have you considered upgrading to a G27/G25 pedal set?


:)

I'll probably go the whole hog & get a T500 somewhere along the line. What I've done for now is to put a custom-cut piece of firm sponge behind the brake pedal to increase resistance. I've left the accelerator as is...


Are they really so stupid that they doesn't test these updates before they release them?
Apparently they are, yes.


After spending more time testing with different cars I think FFB before the hot fix had a better feel. Is there a way to undo the latest hot fix?

My guess:

Only if you have a pre-1.12 game save on a USB flash drive. You'd then have to sacrifice whatever progress you'd made & cars you'd bought after that save.
 
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PC Games?...... Actually, it seems that Next Car Game (early access) may have suffered in a similar way to how @332i appears to describe the GT6 situation. There was a new build released earlier in the year that lasted around a week before a hot"fix" came. The new driving model was rich and involved, but it wasn't what people were used to. Some of them whinged and whined, and the babies got their bottle. See, passives tend to be disregarded, which means that the flavour that the whingers and whiners bring to the table is concentrated.

I doubt that we can change how a developer reacts to feedback, but we might be able to change what feedback they're given.

* That's feedback, and not feedback btw...... clearly.
Would you like me to make a list of the things that people have complained about for years and nothing was done about them? Premium Supra anyone? E30 please? There are dozens of things fans complained about endlessly that didn't get done, why would this one all of a sudden produce an instantaneous response?
 
I didn't get to test the FFB with the original 1.12 update, but I did get to play some yesterday with the hotfix. The default setting with my T500 was 5/8, but that was WAY too strong. I finally settled on 2/4 for my liking and I think it feels pretty good. Glad to see they fixed the excessive curb FFB. Strangely though, anything above a torque setting of 2 is pretty damn strong and I was running a setting of 5-6 prior to the 1.12 update. I'm surprised to hear so many people saying the G27 FFB is now almost non-existent because its a lot stronger now for the T500 after the update.
 
At the end of the day, the issue is not with the quality of feedback. It's about the quantity. It doesn't matter what setting you think is most realistic, because we all have different preferences and arm strengths. Pre 1.12 we were able to adjust the strength from 1-10. Now no matter what settings you use it's still way too light for some cars with Logitech wheels. And that is the crux of the issue here. PD need to fix the broken car's FFT slider so they work (note I did not mention fixing the feedback model or the car's physics itself - it's just the option settings).

From the hotfix announcement, they seem to already know about the problem:
With certain cars, the [Force Feedback Max. Torque] value found in the [Steering Characteristics] page within the [Steering Controller] category of the [Options] screen in the [MENU] (accessible by pressing the START button) was not working as intended.

But obviously some cars are still broken. For Logitech users, to know what I'm talking about, go drive the Red Bull Junior and then the Lotus 97T with the same wheel settings. The difference is night and day.
I drive the 97T with more or less the same guys online every day. That was the first car I drove before the hotfix and that is EXACTLY why I am so disappointed. If you think it is good now, it was far, far and beyond better before the hotfix.

The force feedback sucks out loud now.
 
I didn't say you had to, I just don't think that PD should factor Fanatec users and their opinions in where they'll affect people with common to GT6 wheels, to be honest. Let alone supported. People with crap generic wheels aren't complaining...they're unsupported afterall and that would be kind of silly to do so, all things considered. It would be expected, because there is no FFB designed for their wheels. Just like yours, but PD screws with the G27 drivers slightly so fanatecs work so-so. Yes, let's compromise a driver for what has to be no less than 100:1 users, from g27 to fanatec.

I don't understand you being upset that it won't work right, just because yours is expensive, because you bought it, have it, like it, etc. That's what it comes down to with Fanatec owners. "I spent a lot on my wheel or I'm a really serious sim racer (I promise), therefor it should have it's own driver or at least work correctly." LOL. Your wheel works with GT6. It just doesn't work right, like every other unsupported wheel. What's not to understand or swallow? You have no grounds to complain on.

There are very, very few fanatec users in GT6 and for good reason. People don't buy fanatecs to play GT6, which is beyond understandable. Was in a room the other night and some weirdo went off on his rant, because his fanatec is a joke with GT6 at the moment, complaining about Kaz as if all GT players know who he is, etc. My buddy's ten year old generic logitech wheel, which also runs a driver not meant for it, is a joke with GT6 at the moment as well. Both of you are using unsupported wheels and that is your own faults. You either bought the game and then bought and unsupported wheel...or you bought a wheel, knowing the game doesn't support it. Both are amusing. You spent good money on a wheel. Spending money on a good wheel, knowing or being uncertain that it will be unsupported...not our problem or mistake to deal with. That is your own, but it is partially made our for reasons of which I do not understand.

Spend more energy on PD supporting your wheel, than complaining about drivers that are meant for you and yours My g27 is a joke on some sims, but I don't complain, because I expect that. It is not meant for some serious sims to be effective. I don't know how you expect differently on the flip side of things, other than the fact that it is on the other end of the spectrum - not too cheap to be supported, just not supported and it is expensive and that doesn't sit well with fanatec users on GT6.

You're lucky enough that you are able to utilize our drivers and have it at least not be total garbage. They're simply not going to spend time on a g27 driver to make an incredibly small amount of users satisfied enough to play GT6...with another wheel using said driver. That would make no sense. But, they'll dumb down the G27 drivers, so the fanatec is tolerable...sometimes. Which is stupid, as the bad taste you leave in g27 users' mouths is a far greater issue than disgruntled fanatec users, because there are few on GT6 in the first place, as I've said...and that's also common knowledge, obviously.

Don't buy a game that you know your wheel is unsupported on and then complain about the FFB. That makes zero sense. You knew what you were going to get - whatever it was going to be, it wasn't going to be quite right. Sorry, just getting to the point and being honest/realistic. A lot of us bought GT6, knowing that the G27 would be supported and there are a ton of G27 users. We would like our wheels to work and not have the (supported) drivers changed on us, because people with other wheels with their own respective (supported) drivers have issues, dissatisfaction, etc. We have enough problems with supported wheels working correctly. I'm sorry to say it like this, but after spending money on a wheel, building a nice rig, buying sims and GTs and STILL having our own issues with FFB...they shouldn't be giving your wheel a second thought. I know that doesn't sound very nice, but it is frustrating for someone who paid attention, bought what I should, spent time and money on things that I KNOW will work/be compatible...and still not have them work correctly because of people with other wheels, some being unsupported. That is very, very annoying. Part of the reason our torque is weak, is because it would be too much on your wheel, because it is the same data signal going to a more powerful motor (fanatec motor obviously). If it was an electrical signal, that would not be a problem (it would actually be the other way around, like trying to power a large speaker with a small amplifier), but it is a data signal and that causes a problem. The compromise is BS and the hotfix was BS.

First of all, I wasn't on here complaining about the update pre-hotfix. The only comment I made regarding this was that I was glad the hotfix got rid of the obnoxiously light feeling I was experiencing.

Second, I'm sorry your G27 isn't working the way you want it to and I hope PD does something about it, very soon, but what they decide to change in GT6 is out of my control and everyone else's. I would also like to know what makes you think PD is catering to Fanatec over G27 users and that all of this just isn't a coincidence?

Lastly, I didn't buy my Fanatec for GT6. I've had it since 2012. And expecting a Fanatec to work with GT6 isn't entirely unrealistic, since no one had any issues with them in GT5.
 
I run my G27 on FFT-3/FFS-4. The overall force feedback changes from car to car and by the tires used. I can't even imagine how it would behave if either setting was maxed out now.
 
Cargo, you're not as passive or subtle as you think :) I'm not quite sure you played pre-hotfix either, by the sounds of things. The detail was unbelievable. It is a stupid game and I was sitting there with big grin on my face the first time I used the wheel, before the hotfix. I was speechless. You could feel the grainy-ness of the tarmac and how it differed from one section of a track to another...or on track to another, etc. You could feel TWO different FFBs going on at once; ie the weight shift AND the road texture, not just one or the other as it is again, like pre-1.12. It sucks compared to pre-patch and idk how anyone with a g27 could think otherwise. It was too different worlds from the night before, when everyone was still using 1.11. Right now, you hit a curb and THEN you feel the weight shift. Before the patch, you would hit the curb and feel the weight shift before you even got off of or away from it. IDK how it can even be debated to be honest. It was that much better............................
 
Cargo, you're not as passive or subtle as you think :) I'm not quite sure you played pre-hotfix either, by the sounds of things. The detail was unbelievable. It is a stupid game and I was sitting there with big grin on my face the first time I used the wheel, before the hotfix. I was speechless. You could feel the grainy-ness of the tarmac and how it differed from one section of a track to another...or on track to another, etc. You could feel TWO different FFBs going on at once; ie the weight shift AND the road texture, not just one or the other as it is again, like pre-1.12. It sucks compared to pre-patch and idk how anyone with a g27 could think otherwise. It was too different worlds from the night before, when everyone was still using 1.11. Right now, you hit a curb and THEN you feel the weight shift. Before the patch, you would hit the curb and feel the weight shift before you even got off of or away from it. IDK how it can even be debated to be honest. It was that much better.


I didn't say you had to, I just don't think that PD should factor Fanatec users and their opinions in where they'll affect people with common to GT6 wheels, to be honest. Let alone supported. People with crap generic wheels aren't complaining...they're unsupported afterall and that would be kind of silly to do so, all things considered. It would be expected, because there is no FFB designed for their wheels. Just like yours, but PD screws with the G27 drivers slightly so fanatecs work so-so. Yes, let's compromise a driver for what has to be no less than 100:1 users, from g27 to fanatec.

I don't understand you being upset that it won't work right, just because yours is expensive, because you bought it, have it, like it, etc. That's what it comes down to with Fanatec owners. "I spent a lot on my wheel or I'm a really serious sim racer (I promise), therefor it should have it's own driver or at least work correctly." LOL. Your wheel works with GT6. It just doesn't work right, like every other unsupported wheel. What's not to understand or swallow? You have no grounds to complain on.

There are very, very few fanatec users in GT6 and for good reason. People don't buy fanatecs to play GT6, which is beyond understandable. Was in a room the other night and some weirdo went off on his rant, because his fanatec is a joke with GT6 at the moment, complaining about Kaz as if all GT players know who he is, etc. My buddy's ten year old generic logitech wheel, which also runs a driver not meant for it, is a joke with GT6 at the moment as well. Both of you are using unsupported wheels and that is your own faults. You either bought the game and then bought and unsupported wheel...or you bought a wheel, knowing the game doesn't support it. Both are amusing. You spent good money on a wheel. Spending money on a good wheel, knowing or being uncertain that it will be unsupported...not our problem or mistake to deal with. That is your own, but it is partially made our for reasons of which I do not understand.

Spend more energy on PD supporting your wheel, than complaining about drivers that are meant for you and yours My g27 is a joke on some sims, but I don't complain, because I expect that. It is not meant for some serious sims to be effective. I don't know how you expect differently on the flip side of things, other than the fact that it is on the other end of the spectrum - not too cheap to be supported, just not supported and it is expensive and that doesn't sit well with fanatec users on GT6.

You're lucky enough that you are able to utilize our drivers and have it at least not be total garbage. They're simply not going to spend time on a g27 driver to make an incredibly small amount of users satisfied enough to play GT6...with another wheel using said driver. That would make no sense. But, they'll dumb down the G27 drivers, so the fanatec is tolerable...sometimes. Which is stupid, as the bad taste you leave in g27 users' mouths is a far greater issue than disgruntled fanatec users, because there are few on GT6 in the first place, as I've said...and that's also common knowledge, obviously.

Don't buy a game that you know your wheel is unsupported on and then complain about the FFB. That makes zero sense. You knew what you were going to get - whatever it was going to be, it wasn't going to be quite right. Sorry, just getting to the point and being honest/realistic. A lot of us bought GT6, knowing that the G27 would be supported and there are a ton of G27 users. We would like our wheels to work and not have the (supported) drivers changed on us, because people with other wheels with their own respective (supported) drivers have issues, dissatisfaction, etc. We have enough problems with supported wheels working correctly. I'm sorry to say it like this, but after spending money on a wheel, building a nice rig, buying sims and GTs and STILL having our own issues with FFB...they shouldn't be giving your wheel a second thought. I know that doesn't sound very nice, but it is frustrating for someone who paid attention, bought what I should, spent time and money on things that I KNOW will work/be compatible...and still not have them work correctly because of people with other wheels, some being unsupported. That is very, very annoying. Part of the reason our torque is weak, is because it would be too much on your wheel, because it is the same data signal going to a more powerful motor (fanatec motor obviously). If it was an electrical signal, that would not be a problem (it would actually be the other way around, like trying to power a large speaker with a small amplifier), but it is a data signal and that causes a problem. The compromise is BS and the hotfix was BS.


I wasn't trying to be....I'm glad you got my message. :sly: :lol: And yes, I drove plenty before the hotfix came out. I still stand by my statements in my previous post here, the FFB as a whole feels much better than it ever has. I get plenty off feel/feedback from the car, tires, and road to suit me. Nothing wrong with the hotfix at all as far as I'm concerned. I can still drive/tune as competively as I could before, nothing about the hotfix hinders that at all. Could things be further improved? Sure, but in my opinion, this update and subsequent hotfix was a step towards improvement. Its hardly a setback as you keep saying. :)

EDIT: Sorry about the double post, don't quite know what happened there. :dunce:
 
I drive the 97T with more or less the same guys online every day. That was the first car I drove before the hotfix and that is EXACTLY why I am so disappointed. If you think it is good now, it was far, far and beyond better before the hotfix.

The force feedback sucks out loud now.

No, the Lotus 97T sucks after 1.12. The hotfix barely changes anything. The RB Junior on the other hand feels great. That's why I picked those two cars to illustrate that the feedback problem is related to the car, not a problem with the FFB model itself.
 
I'm using a Fanatec CSW v1 and I think GT6 "sees" it as a Logitech G27. Ran the new 2014 GTR at Sierra practice SS1 and did the second Senna tribute event and force feedback was spot-on fantastic. Thank you PD for quickly addressing this issue. :cheers:
 
I'm using a Fanatec CSW v1 and I think GT6 "sees" it as a Logitech G27. Ran the new 2014 GTR at Sierra practice SS1 and did the second Senna tribute event and force feedback was spot-on fantastic. Thank you PD for quickly addressing this issue. :cheers:
Out of curiousity, can you drive the RB Junior and the 97T and see if you get the same feeling as @LeGeNd-1?

No, the Lotus 97T sucks after 1.12. The hotfix barely changes anything. The RB Junior on the other hand feels great. That's why I picked those two cars to illustrate that the feedback problem is related to the car, not a problem with the FFB model itself.
 
I play GT6 with a Logitech G27 and I was so happy with it until 1.12! I'm very disappointed with the new FFB settings, way too light for me (while surprisingly it sometimes seems more precise). Even so, I try to get used to it and it's OK with most cars, especially race cars. But I bought a Formula Gran Turismo yesterday and on hard braking before a turn I can barely feel the FFB, it's almost impossible to drive! I suppose it's the same problem you guys are having with the Lotus 97T?
 
As others have mentioned, I find a lower sensitivity actually provides more feedback. If I turn it up everything seems to get drowned out, but if I turn it down I can feel lots of things I didn't feel before. However, if I go too low I feel like the wheel becomes a wet noodle (example: when I lose front grip the wheels just goes completely limp and looses all feedback/resistence). I've settled on a sensitivity of 5, this lets me feel the input from the road/environment/tires but without going completely limp in low grip situations (but it still gets light to communicate the loss of grip). Combine this with a torque setting of 9 and I find my Fanatec GT3 RS V2 feels pretty much just like it did before 1.12 but with lots more feedback coming from the road/environment/tires. I'm quite pleased with it now, still a touch "lighter" than it was before 1.12 but I generally don't even notice after a lap or two. If I turn the spring/damper up a notch on the Fanatec then I get the heavy feeling back but I leave them at zero just to be sure nothing is getting clipped. 👍
 
No, the Lotus 97T sucks after 1.12. The hotfix barely changes anything. The RB Junior on the other hand feels great. That's why I picked those two cars to illustrate that the feedback problem is related to the car, not a problem with the FFB model itself.
The lotus is fine. I race it a lot online. No changes in times. Over 12k miles on one and nearly 8k on the other. I have like 48k miles into gt6...nearly half of that with the lotus. It is fine. Feedback isn't quite right, but it is good enough to.drive the same. Trust me. What wheel lock setting are you using and which wheel?
 
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