FFB 1.12 Update

[P_Lav]

I get the feeling many that like the update have never driven a car without electronic power steering, because that is what my G27 is reverted to. It's like trying to drive a 1980's Cadillac with extra boosted powersteering, flat tires, and worn out bushings with a mile of steering wheel play. Correcting any kind of spin and or oversteer situation is absolutely impossible. I don't care if "road feel is better" it's simulated road feel, not actual, I'd rather have more resistance and not have to physically flip my wheel back in order to catch a drift. When I drift my FC, I once the rear wheels start to go out, I simply loosen pressure on the wheel, and catch it as the car countersteers, not manually flip the wheel in the opposite direction and hope I dial in the right amount of opposite lock. That feature is critical in feeling what the wheels are doing much more, than having better defined curbs and bumps. I've come and gone so many times with GT6, I don't think I'll be coming back again, unless a timely fix is implemented.

PD should not be releasing improvements as updates that are not properly implemented if this is a case of certain cars having better FFB than others. PC's give you the freedom to setup your wheel the way you feel is right, and theres much, much more than 2 different settings. Hell even NFS Shift got that right.

 

[Akvarius]

Tested the GTR Black edition on Sierra yesterday.
My wheel felt like it had spasm. Either that or both front rims are cracked.
Not impressed at all with this, but will need to test other cars and tracks.

 

[Le_Manuz]

first, i like the new feelings of the wheel
really good road feedback experience

but like many, i said that it's too weak
i used to have my G27 on 5 or 6 to match my real life car power steering force

now it's at 10 and feels weaker than before
even a four years old kid can turn the wheel without any problem ..

for one of my friend, unlike everyone, it still too strong on his T500 set at 1-1
it was like that after 1.11 and didn't changed after 1.12
it's so strong that he is playing on his old broken G25 ...

 

[Charlie A]

Hi, I have a G27 and before update 1.12 it was ok, but now it seems a bit disconnected and floppy. What is the best setting for it?

Thanks

 

[Dragonwhisky]

Hi, I have a G27 and before update 1.12 it was ok, but now it seems a bit disconnected and floppy. What is the best setting for it?

Thanks

660 degrees rotation/no dead zone. FFT-3/FFS-4

If you like a heavier wheel run either FFT up or FFS. Don't recommend running both up, but if one doesn't give you the feel you like, do both.

 

[Charlie A]

660 degrees rotation/no dead zone. FFT-3/FFS-4

If you like a heavier wheel run either FFT up or FFS. Don't recommend running both up, but if one doesn't give you the feel you like, do both.

Alright, thanks! Is there an advanced setting menu, or just the standard one? I only see the FFB sensitivity and force setting available...

 

[Dragonwhisky]

Alright, thanks! Is there an advanced setting menu, or just the standard one? I only see the FFB sensitivity and force setting available...

For how to get that 660 degrees rotation and no dead zone for your G27, click here. Might have to read a bit to see how it works. Basically it's a hard coded button press sequence on the G27 that recalibrates how it works.

 

[Charlie A]

For how to get that 660 degrees rotation and no dead zone for your G27, click here. Might have to read a bit to see how it works. Basically it's a hard coded button press sequence on the G27 that recalibrates how it works.

For "stock" game settings, which is best? Like what should I set for FFB Max Torque and sensitivity?

 

[Dragonwhisky]

For "stock" game settings, which is best? Like what should I set for FFB Max Torque and sensitivity?

That's all down to personal preference at this point. Some here would say there isn't enough of any FFB and some would say there is. Try it with FFT (Max Torque) at 3 and FFS (Sensitivity) at 4. If it feels weak to you, move one or the other slider to a higher value and try it out. Keep in mind, the higher you set either number, the harder your wheel will work to reproduce the effects, the more wear and tear it will have.

 

[Charlie A]

That's all down to personal preference at this point. Some here would say there isn't enough of any FFB and some would say there is. Try it with FFT (Max Torque) at 3 and FFS (Sensitivity) at 4. If it feels weak to you, move one or the other slider to a higher value and try it out. Keep in mind, the higher you set either number, the harder your wheel will work to reproduce the effects, the more wear and tear it will have.

Thanks! I will try it.

 

[Morphisor]

For those who may still doubt how much it matters which car you are driving, try driving the Dino 246 GT

 

[Dragonwhisky]

Not only should it matter which car you drive, it should matter what grade tires you put on it.

 

[Charlie A]

That's all down to personal preference at this point. Some here would say there isn't enough of any FFB and some would say there is. Try it with FFT (Max Torque) at 3 and FFS (Sensitivity) at 4. If it feels weak to you, move one or the other slider to a higher value and try it out. Keep in mind, the higher you set either number, the harder your wheel will work to reproduce the effects, the more wear and tear it will have.

Ok, I tried it. I did however try it on an X14. I was doing RB events It seems like I turn it and nothing, much like American cars. Which one should I move, sensitivity or strength?

 

[Dragonwhisky]

Try it moving both, but not at the same time. Did you pick a rotation setting to use? If you left it without picking at least the 900 degree setting the g27 has at least 2 inches of dead zone, left to right and possibly as high as 4 inches. Get rid of the dead zone native to the default calibration the PS3 and GT6 provide.

 

[mr_lab_rat]

Now that I had time to run different cars here are my observations:

Before 1.12 the force feedback nicely emulated the feel of weight transfer and directional changes you would feel with your butt in real car. This often resulted in maxing out the FF on Logitech wheels so there was some loss of information. Front tire slip angle didn't seem to be modeled at all.

The update 1.12 (before hotfix) introduced slip angle feedback and much more detailed response to curbs but took out all other feedback. This might have worked for some high end wheels but Logitech wheels were screwed.

Now after the hotfix they brought back some feedback from directional changes but not much from weight transfer. They kept the strong curb feedback and dialed back the understeer slip angle and brake lock up effects.
This resulted in better lap times for me (old DFP) with most cars (only the cars where using weight transfer for turning are worse).

So for me the perfect update would be:

Keep or increase slip angle and brake lock up effects
Keep or even reduce directional change effects (I usualy run TTF 5-6 and TTS 8-9)
Increase weight transfer effects
Decrease curb/rough road effects to get free up some FF needed for increasing the above

Kaz, are you reading this?

 

[Jdo]

DFGT user here. My experience in real race cars in comparison to the old wheel settings were that it was remarkably accurate, but just too light. Now it feels far far too light, and much more "gamey". You shouldn't be able to throw it from lock to lock with two fingers without power steering. Strangest thing is that this wasn't asked for.

Clear that testing is now being done on the Thrustmaster wheels. Afraid to say those of us who went Logitech have been left behind even before next gen. Price of DFGTs on eBay may be about to drop...

Having said all that, it's tolerable. Just not as good or realistic feeling.

 

[azidahaka]

Dfgt here. I'm getting crazy trying to get a right feeling like i had pre 1.12... I had a setup that allowed me to feel all slidings but now no matter what i try the car i race the most (GT300) tends to snap suddenly and apparentlyt with no actual warning.

In short i've lost one second on most tracks, and i'm literally smoking because i race in an endurance serie with very competitive racers that after the ffb changes have widened the gap in an impossible way...

Any and all helps are welcome. If i don't find a way to fix it i won't enjoy racing with others anymore, and the whole enjoiyment i get from the game is racing in other gtp series...

 

[Johnnypenso]

Now that I had time to run different cars here are my observations:

Before 1.12 the force feedback nicely emulated the feel of weight transfer and directional changes you would feel with your butt in real car. This often resulted in maxing out the FF on Logitech wheels so there was some loss of information. Front tire slip angle didn't seem to be modeled at all.

The update 1.12 (before hotfix) introduced slip angle feedback and much more detailed response to curbs but took out all other feedback. This might have worked for some high end wheels but Logitech wheels were screwed.

Now after the hotfix they brought back some feedback from directional changes but not much from weight transfer. They kept the strong curb feedback and dialed back the understeer slip angle and brake lock up effects.
This resulted in better lap times for me (old DFP) with most cars (only the cars where using weight transfer for turning are worse).

So for me the perfect update would be:

Keep or increase slip angle and brake lock up effects
Keep or even reduce directional change effects (I usualy run TTF 5-6 and TTS 8-9)
Increase weight transfer effects
Decrease curb/rough road effects to get free up some FF needed for increasing the above

Kaz, are you reading this?

Like this:

 

[super_gt]

Like this:

We can only dream for so many options in GT

 

[dolande]

I think this is like vanilla vs chocolate ice cream. G27 user I always had it set to 660 degrees, I'm using 4/8 settings and I like it. More feedback than before but little less force, still is a work out to drive the sauber though.

 

[SmellyWallrus]

The more I use my G27 on this update, the more I hate it.

I want to feel the weight transfer through the wheel, I want to feel me forearms pumping after a race. The floppy, weak, over sensitive, huge dead zone and pathetic steering has to go.

This is the worst update this series has seen, I for one wont play until a fix, like it used to be, or just not play again.

 

[SmellyWallrus]

Ive just gone back back to GT5 and tried my G27, what a difference.

Try it, its so, so much better.

PD, please put the settings back to the GT5 standards, or at least allow us to change them to that way, or harder.

 

[danardif1]

I much prefer the new FFB now I've had some time with it, though I do think it's a bit too light on the FGT. Cars now feel very different to each other depending on what they are... locking the wheels makes the wheel go light, you can feel bumps and kerbs and at some circuits that's a revelation because you can feel bumps upsetting the car in long corners. The FFB before was good for strength but it felt very benign and there was no real difference between cars... a Group C sportscar had the same steering feel as a Focus ST. That's not the case at all anymore.

People also need to remember that not all cars drive well and if they're meant to be accurately represented in the game they should reflect real life. The changes to the FFB have made this possible to feel within the game.

(DFGT user)

 

[Speed Drifter]

SmellyWallrus, I'm so with you on this. After all you're supposed to be in total control of your car.
The weight transfer effect should be the most important thing to focus on when implementing a FFB.
You're not out there on digital racetracks just enjoying the detailed road surface.

It's very true that modern power steerings on new cars make the steering really light which is nice for cruising.
It might be okay even for going over the limits of tire grip, but you have your butt sensor when driving a real car!

 

[OdeFinn]

Most complainers in this thread are just forgetting one really important setting; steering sensitivity, you really should start testing with this setting first at 7 (max) and lowering from there, can bet at best feeling is between 5 and 7, personally using 6.
Under 5 it starts to feel too slow/loose for driving.

 

[LeGeNd-1]

I tested steering sensitivity a couple of pages back. It doesn't do much on my Logitech G25. A bigger effect can be had with changing steering rotation. But then you lose the 1:1 steering ratio and I figured it's better to just leave it at 900 degrees and get used to the low resistance.

At the end of the day we just have to accept that some cars are good and some are bad. The settings help a tiny bit but it's mostly placebo effect.

 

[Speed Drifter]

For me, using DF GT and lowering the sensitivity from 9 makes it really awkward (almost difficult) to try and accurately do minute steering inputs..
I'd definitely like to use 10, but most cars make too strong oscillations on the wheel when driving straight.

I believe G25/27 might be slightly better on this, since they're equipped with stronger motors than the cheap GT wheel.

 

[LeGeNd-1]

Just to clear up, I was talking about Controller Sensitivity which goes from -2 to 7 (I have my setting on 0). I think you're talking about Force Feedback Sensitivity which goes from 0-10 (I have my setting on 10 as well).

 

[Sidebrowns]

Controller steering sensitivity should have no or very little effect on wheels.

I think a general rule of thumb would be ff sensitivity high if you don't like the dead zone (and we're talking about FFB dead zone, not steering dead zone right?). And ff sensitivity low(ish) if you prefer feeling road effects.

ff torque is another thing and doesn't seem to make a huge difference no matter where it's set.

G27 user

 

[wahwah]

I decided to confront the inevitable and buy a Thrustmaster T300RS, after only a year of having a G27. The 1.12 update was the tipping factor that made me decide to go ahead and spend more on this great little hobby. In my opinion, this is the wheel around which these changes are planned and executed. At moderate settings (5/5) the result is a fluid, tactile experience with the road and the tires' reaction to cornering. In a moment, it all made perfect sense. I think our G27s are being put out to pasture, orphaned by their manufacturer who has exited the scene, stage left. Without their support, there is nobody to apply pressure to the console manufacturer nor game developer to ensure that we have a satisfactory experience with their product. I'm assuming a lot, and I make no claim to be right, but in my opinion it would be unlikely that we will see a fix for this problem for G27 owners. I hope I am wrong, because this would be a very poor scenario for the majority who cannot or will not justify the expenditure on a new wheel, an expensive wheel at that, coupled with a set of poorly matched toy pedals. However, logic and intuition are screaming that this is what's going on. A form of planned obsolescence. It wouldn't be the first time in corporate history, nor would it be the last. I don't think it's by accident that the 1.12 update coincides with the recognition of the T300 in GT6.

For the moment, I am tied to this very average pedal set while I await my Ricmotech adapter, which will enable me to at least use my modded set of G27 pedals and avoid spending any more to keep driving on the previous and new gen console. As a replacement for a G27, the T300 wheel is certainly an upgrade and to some degree, future proof, at least on the horizon from where we currently stand. It comes, however, at a premium, one which many players will refuse to accept, and understandably so. I hope to be proven wrong by a near future hotfix aimed at appeasing G27 owners, but I wouldn't want to be holding my breath.