Final Fantasy XII
- Thread starter ledhed
- 139 comments
- 10,275 views
- 33,155
- Hammerhead Garage
It would be nice, if only because XII was let down by its story. It hit upon some interesting ideas, but it never really handled them that well (which is a bit of a hallmark of recent entries; IX and X had the most cohesive storytelling, whereas VIII, XII and the XIII series all fell short at times). Too much of the game hinged on the intricacies of political manoeuvrings but it was never particularly engaging, probably because the game's second act - going to Mt. Bur-Omisace and the Stilshrine of Miriam - was just a re-tread of the first act. You could have gone to the Valley of Kings, then on to Arcadia, and still understood the story perfectly.
- 1,410
- London, UK
- Shirrako
They said the same about FFX Remaster, that they would love to make X-3, it's simple marketing, going back to XII-2 doesn't make much sense, they would do better to invest in a sequel to VII or XV.
Then again, I'm a HUGE fan of XII, so I would love a sequel, I just don't see it happening...
Lain
Premium
- 7,090
- Pasadena, TX
- Yaywalter
I find it hard to believe that they're saying it just for marketing. I think they're genuine in their claims, but of course it's a very real possibility XII The Zodiac Age may not prove to be popular enough to justify an XII-2.
As for XV-2, X-3, and VII-2...
XV-2 doesn't seem like a very feasible proposition. XV is insanely huge, so an XV-2 seems like it would be a very costly proposition at the very least. Plus it seems highly unlikely that Square Enix will even recover the development costs of the first XV... so I think they'll probably want to pursue a safer, cheaper bet. Which brings us to the other possibilities...
X-3 could very well still happen. In fact, I think it's very likely to happen. We haven't heard anything of it yet, but it's not even been 3 years since FFX HD dropped so it might not be far enough along to be ready to show. And even if it were in a state where it could be shown, they'll probably want to wait a bit... with FFXV, XII HD, VII Remake, World of Final Fantasy, etc, the FF plate is a bit full at the moment. We probably won't get an announcement until XV drops and we see serious progress with VII Remake.
And on the subject of VII, VII-2 would make sense... but VII remake is filling that void for the time being, and will be for a good long while. They've confirmed that the episodes of VII Remake will be the size of whole games in their own right. If a VII-2 is coming, it won't be after VII Remake concludes. Which could very well be 5+ years from now.
As for XV-2, X-3, and VII-2...
XV-2 doesn't seem like a very feasible proposition. XV is insanely huge, so an XV-2 seems like it would be a very costly proposition at the very least. Plus it seems highly unlikely that Square Enix will even recover the development costs of the first XV... so I think they'll probably want to pursue a safer, cheaper bet. Which brings us to the other possibilities...
X-3 could very well still happen. In fact, I think it's very likely to happen. We haven't heard anything of it yet, but it's not even been 3 years since FFX HD dropped so it might not be far enough along to be ready to show. And even if it were in a state where it could be shown, they'll probably want to wait a bit... with FFXV, XII HD, VII Remake, World of Final Fantasy, etc, the FF plate is a bit full at the moment. We probably won't get an announcement until XV drops and we see serious progress with VII Remake.
And on the subject of VII, VII-2 would make sense... but VII remake is filling that void for the time being, and will be for a good long while. They've confirmed that the episodes of VII Remake will be the size of whole games in their own right. If a VII-2 is coming, it won't be after VII Remake concludes. Which could very well be 5+ years from now.
- 33,155
- Hammerhead Garage
I think that the whole Fabula Nova Crystalis experiment demonstrated that serialised titles don't really work. Each numbered installment should be a self-contained title.
Lain
Premium
- 7,090
- Pasadena, TX
- Yaywalter
The problem with the XIII trilogy wasn't the fact it was serialized, the problem there was WHAT was being serialized. 
"People didn't really like XIII, to put it mildly... so you know what would be a GREAT idea? XIII-2! We'll make them like it by force! ...Hrm, that didn't exactly do the trick? Well then how 'bout Lightning Returns! That oughta do it!"
Now, XII wasn't loved by some people and it wasn't necessarily the most successful FF ever... but it was leagues better than XIII and its lack of success could be attributed to several outside factors such as it being released towards the end of the PS2's lifecycle when everyone was preparing for the next generation, not to mention non-diehard fans (and even some diehards) losing interest in the series after unappealing entries like X-2 and XI, poor advertising, etc.
I mean, as a relatively big RPG fan (both JRPGs and western), I wasn't even made aware that XII was a thing until a friend saw me playing KOTOR and commented that it looked similar gameplay-wise to XII.
"People didn't really like XIII, to put it mildly... so you know what would be a GREAT idea? XIII-2! We'll make them like it by force! ...Hrm, that didn't exactly do the trick? Well then how 'bout Lightning Returns! That oughta do it!"
Now, XII wasn't loved by some people and it wasn't necessarily the most successful FF ever... but it was leagues better than XIII and its lack of success could be attributed to several outside factors such as it being released towards the end of the PS2's lifecycle when everyone was preparing for the next generation, not to mention non-diehard fans (and even some diehards) losing interest in the series after unappealing entries like X-2 and XI, poor advertising, etc.
I mean, as a relatively big RPG fan (both JRPGs and western), I wasn't even made aware that XII was a thing until a friend saw me playing KOTOR and commented that it looked similar gameplay-wise to XII.
Last edited:
- 1,328
- Vancouver, BC
- Awong124
I quite liked this game when it came out. I remember I did everything in the game. My playthrough took 205 hours. I forgot what those two super high HP bosses were called, but I remember those battles took literally over 5 hours each. I left the game to do its thing while I went off and did something else, and checked on it every half an hour or so. Sometimes I came back to find the game paused because the party leader died, and I had to revive him. I think one of the battles took around 5 hours, and the other took like 8 hours.
Last edited:
- 4,464
- Azle, TX
- supermanfromazle
- SanjiHimura
Agreed. The linear gameplay was a big turn off for me, and I never looked back from XIII.The problem with the XIII trilogy wasn't the fact it was serialized, the problem there was WHAT was being serialized.
"People didn't really like XIII, to put it mildly... so you know what would be a GREAT idea? XIII-2! We'll make them like it by force! ...Hrm, that didn't exactly do the trick? Well then how 'bout Lightning Returns! That oughta do it!"
Now, XII wasn't loved by some people and it wasn't necessarily the most successful FF ever... but it was leagues better than XIII and its lack of success could be attributed to several outside factors such as it being released towards the end of the PS2's lifecycle when everyone was preparing for the next generation, not to mention non-diehard fans (and even some diehards) losing interest in the series after unappealing entries like X-2 and XI, poor advertising, etc.
I mean, as a relatively big RPG fan (both JRPGs and western), I wasn't even made aware that XII was a thing until a friend saw me playing KOTOR and commented that it looked similar gameplay-wise to XII.
- 33,155
- Hammerhead Garage
I think the issue was more the cohesion than anything else. XIII, XIII-2 and Lightning Returns had the potential to tell an interesting, engaging story when told as a single work.
It's been a bit of an issue since X - key story elements haven't really been explained. X-2 only really came about because audiences didn't understand the final scene, where Tidus awakens. XII tapped into the divine right of kings, but with the twist that the "divine" beings weren't actually divine at all and working to bring about their own vision, but in the end, you fought the one guy - Dr. Cid - who actually wanted to change things. XIII tried a similar premise, but clearly had no idea as to what came next.
- 11,127
- Bromley
- V16T91
- E0nLeader
Surprised it took me this long to notice the game was getting remastered. But then I've heard that 12 wasn't much good. Except I've also seen some people say they love it. In fact, I've seen a person say it's a bad game but they like it anyway. Something to do with its hunts.
I'm also a little uncertain how I feel about remasters. Indeed, FF12 already pushed the PS2 to its edge originally. But another release of it gives me a good chance to check it out first hand. So the question is... Should I buy it or no?
I'm also a little uncertain how I feel about remasters. Indeed, FF12 already pushed the PS2 to its edge originally. But another release of it gives me a good chance to check it out first hand. So the question is... Should I buy it or no?
Lain
Premium
- 7,090
- Pasadena, TX
- Yaywalter
Personally, FFXII is my favorite in the series. It’s not perfect by any means, but the common criticisms it receives are mostly down to subjective preference rather than objective flaws. Some examples:
“The game plays itself” - This extremely reductive complaint about how the AI can take care of most battles without player intervention conveniently ignores one fact: The player sets up the AI to their exact specifications with the Gambit system. I’m not gonna use the common defense and say that gambits are optional, because that’s bull. You’ll get your ass handed to you eventually if you try and play without gambits. Instead, i’ll just point out that setting up and tweaking the gambits in itself is a kind of gameplay. So when your party auto-slaughters weak enemies thanks to your Gambit setup, you aren’t watching the game play itself... you’re watching the results of your own handiwork. Depending on your taste, you may or may not find this style of gameplay appealing.
“The story/characters are bad” - The story in XII is a little more grounded and political, drier and less rife with character-driven melodrama compared to the likes of VII, VIII and X. But again, whether or not you’ll like that or not is down to preference. The characters Vaan and Penelo in particular get a lot of flak for being unnecessary to the plot, especially since they were supposedly added in so that the young’uns would have some characters they could relate to. But I personally like those characters, and how you start off as a character who isn’t an integral part of the main plot but who just gets swept up in it by circumstance.
But to answer your question... do I recommend buying it? Yes, absolutely. Phenomenal game that can easily deliver 100+ hours of entertainment. Just don’t go into it expecting it to be quite like any other FFs you may have played. The closest comparison to XII I can think of gameplay-wise is the KOTOR series, but I’ve also heard comparisons drawn between it and Xenoblade Chronicles... though I haven’t played any of those myself.
“The game plays itself” - This extremely reductive complaint about how the AI can take care of most battles without player intervention conveniently ignores one fact: The player sets up the AI to their exact specifications with the Gambit system. I’m not gonna use the common defense and say that gambits are optional, because that’s bull. You’ll get your ass handed to you eventually if you try and play without gambits. Instead, i’ll just point out that setting up and tweaking the gambits in itself is a kind of gameplay. So when your party auto-slaughters weak enemies thanks to your Gambit setup, you aren’t watching the game play itself... you’re watching the results of your own handiwork. Depending on your taste, you may or may not find this style of gameplay appealing.
“The story/characters are bad” - The story in XII is a little more grounded and political, drier and less rife with character-driven melodrama compared to the likes of VII, VIII and X. But again, whether or not you’ll like that or not is down to preference. The characters Vaan and Penelo in particular get a lot of flak for being unnecessary to the plot, especially since they were supposedly added in so that the young’uns would have some characters they could relate to. But I personally like those characters, and how you start off as a character who isn’t an integral part of the main plot but who just gets swept up in it by circumstance.
But to answer your question... do I recommend buying it? Yes, absolutely. Phenomenal game that can easily deliver 100+ hours of entertainment. Just don’t go into it expecting it to be quite like any other FFs you may have played. The closest comparison to XII I can think of gameplay-wise is the KOTOR series, but I’ve also heard comparisons drawn between it and Xenoblade Chronicles... though I haven’t played any of those myself.
Last edited:
- 1,328
- Vancouver, BC
- Awong124
FFXII was one of my favorites. I loved setting up the gambits. My playthrough took 205 hours, and I did absolutely everything in the game.
That being said, I will not buy the remastered version, as I have no desire to play it again. I beat it once while doing everything there was to do, so once was enough.
That being said, I will not buy the remastered version, as I have no desire to play it again. I beat it once while doing everything there was to do, so once was enough.
@Lain -- Just to offer my $0.02 as one of the people who didn't like the game, I really didn't like the way FFXII's combat felt with or without gambits. It may seem trivial, but to me it was ruined by its incongruous mix of real-time movement and an ATB-like wait after selecting a command. It was so jarring and off-putting that the experience fell flat on its face. Gambits weren't my thing either, though I can understand the appeal for those who enjoy a min-maxing sort of playstyle.
I'm not sure about the story because I couldn't stick with the game for long. I wouldn't necessarily prefer a different plot, but none of the characters I met appealed to me and that drags any game down. Thinking back, Japanese audio might have helped with that, or if there was no VA at all. I'm not a fan of English VA in most games, Japanese or otherwise.
As it happens, I'm hardcore into Xenoblade now but I almost passed it up because the combat sounded like FFXII's combat in reviews! I might be the one you're thinking of who mentioned the two together. Aside from basic auto-attacks, Xenoblade feels completely different to me because your abilities activate instantly and then enter an MMORPG-style cooldown, and certain abilities have effects that chain together in a rhythmic way.
I'm not sure about the story because I couldn't stick with the game for long. I wouldn't necessarily prefer a different plot, but none of the characters I met appealed to me and that drags any game down. Thinking back, Japanese audio might have helped with that, or if there was no VA at all. I'm not a fan of English VA in most games, Japanese or otherwise.
As it happens, I'm hardcore into Xenoblade now but I almost passed it up because the combat sounded like FFXII's combat in reviews! I might be the one you're thinking of who mentioned the two together. Aside from basic auto-attacks, Xenoblade feels completely different to me because your abilities activate instantly and then enter an MMORPG-style cooldown, and certain abilities have effects that chain together in a rhythmic way.
Lain
Premium
- 7,090
- Pasadena, TX
- Yaywalter
I don't personally mind queuing up an actions that execute later, in fact I might even prefer it to MMO-style cooldowns. The former makes it feel more like turn-based combat, whereas the latter feels like real-time with arbitrary and annoying waiting. 
At the end of the day though, they're both very similar. The differences are practically just semantics from a mechanical point of view, so it really just comes down to feel.
At the end of the day though, they're both very similar. The differences are practically just semantics from a mechanical point of view, so it really just comes down to feel.
A cooldown is more like ATB to me. I'm okay with waiting, turn-based combat, ATB...I actually preferred the combat in FFXIII over FFXII, and over FFXV too for that matter. I felt it had the right idea for real time FF-style combat, and I enjoyed the combat enough to play all the way to just before the final area. Of course, the story was whatever and the unashamed linearity was crazy.
As I see it, if I'm in control of movement, I should also be able to attack at the press of a button, because positioning and timing matter in real time. Otherwise don't even bother with movement, like FFXIII. Let me control the character or have me command the character, one or the other.
As I see it, if I'm in control of movement, I should also be able to attack at the press of a button, because positioning and timing matter in real time. Otherwise don't even bother with movement, like FFXIII. Let me control the character or have me command the character, one or the other.
Lain
Premium
- 7,090
- Pasadena, TX
- Yaywalter
I completely disagree with your "don't bother with movement" sentiment. I think that FFXII with transitions to a separate battle screen with static character positions would be an objectively lesser game.
It's not about making positioning and timing matter, but it does make things quicker, more seamless and less jarring. And sure, they could make it to where you lose control of your movement in XII once you get into an encounter with an enemy without a transition to a separate battle screen... but that in and of itself would be rather jarring, perhaps more jarring than just going to a battle screen. Your physical movement may not really matter with regard to the battle system (except for running away), but it still feels good to be able to move and would feel bad to suddenly not be able to move in a battle system that is supposed to be seamlessly integrated into the world.
It's not about making positioning and timing matter, but it does make things quicker, more seamless and less jarring. And sure, they could make it to where you lose control of your movement in XII once you get into an encounter with an enemy without a transition to a separate battle screen... but that in and of itself would be rather jarring, perhaps more jarring than just going to a battle screen. Your physical movement may not really matter with regard to the battle system (except for running away), but it still feels good to be able to move and would feel bad to suddenly not be able to move in a battle system that is supposed to be seamlessly integrated into the world.
Last edited:
Lain
Premium
- 7,090
- Pasadena, TX
- Yaywalter
Chrono Trigger's great, but I don't think I'd like that style of battle system in an immersive 3D world where suddenly being frozen in your tracks would break the immersion. A big part of what I like about FF XII (and KOTOR which has a very similar battle system) is feeling like I'm in the lush world they're presenting... same goes for FF XV, though that has a very different battle system.
I think it ultimately comes down to whether or not you like Gambits... Gambits are a vital part of what makes FFXII work so amazingly, and not just the min-maxing aspect. You don't have to stop moving and input a command to engage an enemy, and weaker enemies you can often kill without ever inputting a command or having a particularly optimal gambit setup... and I personally love that feeling of just running around and grinding against weaker enemies without any other input besides movement. If you don't like Gambits at all, you're not gonna like XII much... simple as that. And anyone who says that you can play XII manually without gambits is being disingenuous.
I think it ultimately comes down to whether or not you like Gambits... Gambits are a vital part of what makes FFXII work so amazingly, and not just the min-maxing aspect. You don't have to stop moving and input a command to engage an enemy, and weaker enemies you can often kill without ever inputting a command or having a particularly optimal gambit setup... and I personally love that feeling of just running around and grinding against weaker enemies without any other input besides movement. If you don't like Gambits at all, you're not gonna like XII much... simple as that. And anyone who says that you can play XII manually without gambits is being disingenuous.
Similar threads
