FITT 60/40, 40/60, 460PP Shootout- scores posted, congrats to tuners!

[Ridox2JZGTE]

The clone sister, Speedster LOL

 

[Onboy123]

The clone sister, Speedster LOL

Ah crap, forgot about the difference of Opel vs Vauxhall…ah whatever, close enough. So…the Elise in drag was beaten by the NSX in drag…no surprise…though you two were going to walk away with it.

 

[trackripper123]

Edit: @Trackripper, screw you. Screw you and your damn Ruf, I thought my relic of an Alpine could at least do something on Autumn Ring, then your thing came along and blew it away completely. And I had the advantage on weight as well as a much better power/weight ratio…

Ahh you have to admit it's a fun car. It may not be that fast but ehh, who cares.

And come on, don't give in, where's my nearest competition if you don't get cracking on that Alpine hmm?

 

[Onboy123]

Ahh you have to admit it's a fun car. It may not be that fast but ehh, who cares.

And come on, don't give in, where's my nearest competition if you don't get cracking on that Alpine hmm?

No, it's fast. Idiot. 1:23.4 on the first lap out, it walked all over my Alpine. Not fun, or rather, it's very serious. You completely neutered it so it goes like hell for what it is, but is almost too effective. I guess.

I know, I'll work on it later, I need to try some other cars too.

 

[trackripper123]

No, it's fast. Idiot. 1:23.4 on the first lap out, it walked all over my Alpine. Not fun, or rather, it's very serious. You completely neutered it so it goes like hell for what it is, but is almost too effective. I guess.

I know, I'll work on it later, I need to try some other cars too.

Oh? See I can only manage 1.24.xxx's with it.

Ehh it's neutered compared to stock, but if you drive it like a lunatic it drifts too.

 

[Onboy123]

Oh? See I can only manage 1.24.xxx's with it.

Ehh it's neutered compared to stock, but if you drive it like a lunatic it drifts too.

Hmm…well, it's fast in comparison to what I can run with what I have, not with the fastest driver.

After doing an 8 hour marathon testing in the 450PP Roadster shootout, I've learned that driving like a nutter, sideways, isn't really the fast way around this track.

Edit: Well, my new car is around a full second faster than the Alpine, and 0.2 seconds faster than your Ruf. Handles quite similarly too. Though it does seem to have a stronger resemblance of another car I've tuned.

 

[XDesperado67]

If this was strictly HSR/R I'd probably use my 2000GT as it was hitting over 170mph and clicking low 1:13s with room for improvement. Unfortunately it's horrible at AR being so far off the pace as to be embarrassing.

 

[nomis3613]

I will find time to test. You tested for mine. Sign me up for two groups that I am not in.

Also, have you already decided what round two will look like? Different tracks? Different cars? Minor adjustments to current cars? No changes at all? I have a bit of a gap in my SCCA schedule so I will have time for round one, but a round two may be challenging?

Many thanks, MCH.

For the final round, I was thinking to minimise tester time by having it: same track, same conditions, no tune changes. In fact, if testers would not need to re-test any car that they already tested. So there would be maximum 4 cars to test if you'd tested 2 groups earlier, of course feel free to re-test if you like). But the most important thing is that the final round isn't boring for testers. So I ask the testers, what would you prefer for the final round:
- same tracks or different? if different, 1 track or 2?
- should re-tuning be allowed?

I think you might have to ban my car. I dropped the ride height and changed the wheel alignment and I just went .977 faster than before. 1'22.456 1st lap out on both runs.

I think this HSC will do a 1'19 with a better driver.

Here's your prize.

LineR32, many thanks for your openness and honesty with this. As basically a concept NSX, the HSC is banned (thanks for agreeing to this).

So there's HSC, Dualnote and DNX; what other concept versions of banned cars are floating around please folks?

@Nomis...I was just going over the rules for testing again to insure my testing and tuning would produce proper results and noticed something you need to change. The sensitivity setting for the test driver needs to remain the same for all cars tested. Tuners specifying a given setting is pointless as is the event host trying to mandate that all testing be done at sensitivity 0. Reason I'm saying this is because of all the different control types that will be used. My preference for sensitivity 7 with my DS3 is completely meaningless to a wheel user, and the various settings for wheel users changes with type of wheel.

You want test drivers to run cars as much like the tuners want on the one hand, but they also need to run all cars tested in a consistent manor. Making test drivers use listed brake balance, gearing, torque splits and LSD settings keeps the cars in line with the tuners intentions, while telling them they need to use the same controller settings and driving aids for all the cars they test keeps testing more fair and consistent.👍👍

I agree that the goal is fair and consistent testing and you make some good points. In my opinion, though, the controller sensitivity is part of a tune- it represents the steering rack ratio (even if it only affects controller users). Also, as a tuner, I'd want the tester to test in as similar environment as you have tuned in (for example your tunes which are made using sensitivity 7 should be tested with sensitivity 7). The downside is that most testers will be familiar with a certain sensitivity so may not like another sensitivity as much- but I think this is part of driving style. It's a tricky situation.

My preference is to not change rules mid-shootout unless strictly necessary (yes I am being a hypocrite above re NSX concepts!). Since the draft rules were posted in the FITT thread, unless a majority of testers and tuners prefer the rule changed, I will leave it as is. So feel free to discuss it further here, I will make a final decision in 2 days time.

If this was strictly HSR/R I'd probably use my 2000GT as it was hitting over 170mph and clicking low 1:13s with room for improvement. Unfortunately it's horrible at AR being so far off the pace as to be embarrassing.

Mmmmm...2000GT, such a beautiful car. If you fit RS tyres at Autumn Ring to make it competitive, I'll turn a blind eye!

 

[NEWDRIVER2]

I'm getting confuse of what it will be my choice . Is it scoopy or old clueless garage roll or it will be mix between the two !!!!!! . Every one know that i'm using DS3 but before two days i start to use my wheel g27 that i bought it 4 months ago and didn't use it because i don't know how to drive by it . What if i said that i tune my cars by the wheel and one of them runing 1:14.xxx in HSR/R and the other one runing 1:13.xxx so i think that if another tester drive it he will do more than that 👍 .
1/ Rx7 Fc 1:15.xxx
2/ LEGACY B4 1:14.xxx
3/ !!!!!!!!!!!!! Old model. 1:13:xxx

 

[DigitalBaka]

Was it that easy to see through?! Well…you were around, so you'd know. The rest of this lot probably have no idea what I was saying there.

The spirit of Roj will admonish you for trying to make a bucket of rust go around a track.

I have a bit of a gap in my SCCA schedule so I will have time for round one, but a round two may be challenging?

I wish I had this problem!

What's the hardest street car to handle and tune in GT5 ?

IMO the GT350 sucks to tune.

So I ask the testers, what would you prefer for the final round:
- same tracks or different? if different, 1 track or 2?
- should re-tuning be allowed?

...

My preference is to not change rules mid-shootout unless strictly necessary (yes I am being a hypocrite above re NSX concepts!). Since the draft rules were posted in the FITT thread, unless a majority of testers and tuners prefer the rule changed, I will leave it as is. So feel free to discuss it further here, I will make a final decision in 2 days time.

For the final round, no change makes no sense. The results will end up close to a repeat of round 1 making the extra run almost pointless. I would say change the track, use only one and allow only final drive changes if the track is significantly different.

As far as testing, I think it is better if the tuners do their business with a set idea of how the cars will be driven. As a tester it can be tough to borrow a car and then have to check things that one aren't used to changing, such as sensitivity. But maybe that's just me.

 

[CSLACR]

My preference is to not change rules mid-shootout unless strictly necessary (yes I am being a hypocrite above re NSX concepts!).

Yes, it's not an NSX.

IMO concepts should have been banned just like tuner cars though, they usually have an advantage over regular models.

Since the draft rules were posted in the FITT thread, unless a majority of testers and tuners prefer the rule changed, I will leave it as is. So feel free to discuss it further here, I will make a final decision in 2 days time.

Well, I use a wheel, so I can set the sensitivity to whatever.
But aside from wholeheartedly disagreeing with telling testers how they must set up steering preferences in the game, it's along the lines of dictating what force feedback level to use on their wheels, power steering on/off, etc.


To me it's a game setting, and has nothing to do with the tune.
I also wouldn't even consider telling testers not to use ABS, it'd be shootout suicide.(for any tuner that did)
I think for the sake of BB settings, that's a no-no. Even though you can drive a car at 0/10 BB without crashing, it'll slow you down immensely compared to using ABS with the same BB at 0/10.

In short, testers should be using ABS on every car(unless the tuner is that brave to tell all testers not to use it) ABS isn't something you remove from a car without modification.
And testers shouldn't have to set in-game steering settings to any setting other than what they drive best with.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[krenkme]

I am hoping to become an honorary member of Clueless Tunes by picking the Yellow Bird.

Yes! Yes, you can be an honorary member of Clueless ... I might do you one better

A Beat?

Yes please 👍

I wish... If someone enters a G4 I'll tune a Beat.

Great car! You should try one. Now where would you find a tune for one???...hmmm

 

[Ronald6]

Now where would you find a tune for one???...hmmm

:squirms in seat, waving hand in the air: "I know, I know!"

Give me a portable mortar and I could hit his house from here.
(When do I stop thinking in these terms?)

 

[krenkme]

:squirms in seat, waving hand in the air: "I know, I know!"

Give me a portable mortar and I could hit his house from here.
(When do I stop thinking in these terms?)

When you get discharged... at least thats the way it happens in my day

 

[Ronald6]

EAS = Twelve years ago.

 

[krenkme]

EAS = Twelve years ago.

Well maybe it never ends (15 for me, but still a soldier!)....okay sorry for off subject. I am too slow and either need to find a different vehicle or just bow out of this shootout.

P.s. if you want to talk old war stories just PM me and I'll be happy to chat

 

[XDesperado67]

@Nomis you may just want to ban all concept cars...just ran a 1:12.004 at HSR/R in a currently legal car with plenty of room for improvement!
Still needs plenty of work at AR but should be competitive there as well.

Oh and I keep forgetting and turning grip reduction to real.

 

[Onboy123]

The spirit of Roj will admonish you for trying to make a bucket of rust go around a track.

It works though, surprisingly. Currently 2nd fastest…out of 3.

 

[XDesperado67]

Just remembered why we don't use SS tires so much anymore...
Took a bone stock Ferrari SP1 added ballast to make it 40/60, power limited it down to 460PP and put the SS tires on. Drove like it was nailed to the track no muss no fuss just effortlessly consistent laps of right at 1:15 on HSR/R and 1:24.8 on AR. Probably not really competitive even if you tune it because the amount of power limiter needed and its rather high weight don't allow for it, but wow is it a smooth ride as is.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

I am tuning without ABS, but I will give freedom to tester to use ABS or not. Regarding BB, I do have high BB used when tuning, for example, my Opel Speedster has BB of at least 9/5, I am sure for tester with ABS this won't be a problem.
Controller sensitivity will be best to be decided by each tester, not tuner. I have mine usually set from -2 to 2, depend on the driving style used, car, tune and track. For this particular Opel, I have mine at 0, but testers are free to use whatever they wish. Just my opinion on the issue.

Update : My Speedster broke into 1:12.xxx at HSR/R after break in, AR should be in 1:22.xxx, this car's only weakness is above the speed of 140mph. Testers would have awesome time in this car, high speed low angle drift on HSR/R S bend FTW.

 

[CSLACR]

@Nomis you may just want to ban all concept cars...

Shocking...

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

Yellow Bird is awesome ... even at 50% power it managed flat 1:14 at HSR/R with just minor tweak. I need better gearing for the low power band .... now I am confused, this or Speedster or the Supra SZ-R that I also found to be nice to drive. I am putting all of them on share, except the Speedster So add me guys - GTP_Orido, there's a nice track I also shared good for suspension tuning.

Next I will try BMW M Coupe'98, TVR V8S, and MG TF160, should be fun

 

[Onboy123]

Yellow Bird is awesome ... even at 50% power it managed flat 1:14 at HSR/R with just minor tweak. I need better gearing for the low power band .... now I am confused, this or Speedster or the Supra SZ-R that I also found to be nice to drive. I am putting all of them on share, except the Speedster So add me guys - GTP_Orido, there's a nice track I also shared good for suspension tuning.

Next I will try BMW M Coupe'98, TVR V8S, and MG TF160, should be fun

Will add.

The M Coupe was something I also considered, but I wasn't exactly overwhelmed by the Z3 base that the M3's engine was screwed onto. TVR…5 speed gearboxes are a pain, IMO, but it would be hella quick if you got it to work, so if you do get it driving quickly, I'd be very interested in that. MG…? If we were all a good 20/30 years older (50+ years older, in my case), maybe.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

Will add.

The M Coupe was something I also considered, but I wasn't exactly overwhelmed by the Z3 base that the M3's engine was screwed onto. TVR…5 speed gearboxes are a pain, IMO, but it would be hella quick if you got it to work, so if you do get it driving quickly, I'd be very interested in that. MG…? If we were all a good 20/30 years older (50+ years older, in my case), maybe.

The speedster clocked 1:12.xxx at HSR/R with 5 speed gearbox, less shifting through corners, I wonder how fast it would be with 6 speed.
The Yellow Bird can take the 1st right curve on HSR/R at 200km/h+ - a bit less than the Speedster, I was stunned by it's composure with SS tires, very predictable handling.

 

[XDesperado67]

So after the limited amount of testing I've managed I've come up with three possible entries so far. One is the blindingly fast concept I referred to earlier though it will need some work to get it handling right at AR. Second is a gorgeous classic that seldom gets driven despite its pedigree that I tried on a lark and was surprised by how good it performed, probably not a winner in performance but quick enough not to be embarrassed and surprisingly good to drive not to mention those incredibly beautiful lines that scream I'm a real man look at me! The third is another oddball that I highly doubt anyone else will even consider that shocked me with not only its exceptional speed, but considering the reputation it has with many for not being an easy car to drive, turned out to have massive grip in the corners and very mild mannered overall. Still want to try out a few more cars but these three have set a pretty high standard for others to contend with.
Just wish I could spend more time driving, hoping I'll be feeling better and off the meds by Monday.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

Tuning Fairlady Z 280Z-L S130'78, this one have a high mileage, but still could top 280hp, 455pp, getting 1:14.xxx at HSR/R, handles a lot better than anything I have tried so far.

Edit : Now I am officially addicted to Nissan's 70's-90's FR cars, they are fast and easy to tune, getting my hands on Skylines RS, KPGC, Silvia RS, Bluebird SSS ....

 

[Onboy123]

Tuning Fairlady Z 280Z-L S130'78, this one have a high mileage, but still could top 280hp, 455pp, getting 1:14.xxx at HSR/R, handles a lot better than anything I have tried so far.

Edit : Now I am officially addicted to Nissan's 70's-90's FR cars, they are fast and easy to tune, getting my hands on Skylines RS, KPGC, Silvia RS, Bluebird SSS ....

Hmm…the latter two are rather hard to make them quick…but they all do seem very quick on paper (bar the SSS), without doubt.

And why are some of your cars that you set on share not tuned? Accidental or not bothered? I'm talking about the RS6, by the way. An interesting idea, really…I'd love to see it hang with the big guys. Whoever they are for this shootout.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

Hmm…the latter two are rather hard to make them quick…but they all do seem very quick on paper (bar the SSS), without doubt.

And why are some of your cars that you set on share not tuned? Accidental or not bothered? I'm talking about the RS6, by the way. An interesting idea, really…I'd love to see it hang with the big guys. Whoever they are for this shootout.

Going to tune that RS6 now, I am sharing the Supra SZ-R in a few minutes

 

[Onboy123]

Going to tune that RS6 now, I am sharing the Supra SZ-R in a few minutes

Hmm…alright. Is the SZ-R any good, or is it the kind that's fun to drive, just not all that fast?

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

The Supra is mediocre compared to the other cars I've tuned, it understeers a lot, and lacking in top speed, will need a really good driver to get fast times.

I am tuning the RS6 now, it grips well, and very neutral compared to the Supra, the only downside is too much power limiter, top end power is really not good.