FITT BTCC Championship - !! Driver Spot Available !!

[CyKosis1973]

I don't do a lot online, and I agree with being prepared for the possible track conditions, so I will be testing everything to the settings you have in your first post. My question wasn't clear enough, my fault. With the possible qualifying factor to the groups, would you like us to use the proper track conditions or arcade mode?

Sorry. I think setting times in Free Run while suffice, times shouldn't be drastically different, I think probably just specify whether your time if on or offline 👍

just to throw my pennies worth in it's growing quite rapid mate, maybe you could split it into 2 separate championships. one for UK/Europe and one for our friends across the pond. Same principle just would be hosted suitable times for each time zone

With 12 drivers and 12 tuners we'll run 3 mini-championships, four drivers and tuners per championship. There's the potential, once the 3 groups are concluded that the 1st and 2nd place cars face off in a 6 way, one off event to decide the ultimate winner.

So, @CyKosis1973, this event will definitely be a go, what would be the best name for this in the records and archives, FITT Racing Challenges?

I think "FITT BTCC Replica Championship" is as good a title as any, my friend. I think we've garnered enough interest to consider this a proper event now 👍

@CyKosis1973 Why there's Focus ST 2006 instead of 2013 ?
I was all the time thinking that there's ST 2013 due to this car in real BTCC ?

No flat floor Otherwise I would have chosen it...

{Cy}

 

[PatrisS136]

Sorry. I think setting times in Free Run while suffice, times shouldn't be drastically different, I think probably just specify whether your time if on or offline 👍

With 12 drivers and 12 tuners we'll run 3 mini-championships, four drivers and tuners per championship. There's the potential, once the 3 groups are concluded that the 1st and 2nd place cars face off in a 6 way, one off event to decide the ultimate winner.

I think "FITT BTCC Replica Championship" is as good a title as any, my friend. I think we've garnered enough interest to consider this a proper event now 👍

No flat floor Otherwise I would have chosen it...

{Cy}

This stu:censored: Flat Floor !!! I was hoping for this Focus ST 13

 

[Lewis_Hamilton_]

Does the Volvo C30 come with a flat floor? I can't remember if it had the option or not.

 

[True-blue-8]

I'm not going to be in this one as I'm having all sorts of internet issues unfortunately and feel like I wouldn't be able to give 100%. If you're still stuck for a garage when the season starts then I'll sign up and do as best as I can for you.

You won't be stuck for a garage though mate, you're damned fast and give good feedback so you will be an asset to any team. 👍

Thanks mate just wanted to know if you were tuning, would of snatched you up

@CyKosis1973 that idea sounds good to me mate. 👍

Need to try get my wheel sorted out now

 

[CyKosis1973]

This stu:censored: Flat Floor !!! I was hoping for this Focus ST 13

I know, I don't understand why it's not a standard option for all premium cars (where applicable). I would rather have had the Focus '13 and I wouldn't have minded using the 120i BMW, rather than the 135i...

Does the Volvo C30 come with a flat floor? I can't remember if it had the option or not.

Sadly not, the only cars I found, that appeared suitable are below:

• Ford Focus ST '06
• Honda CIVIC TYPE R (EK) '97
• Honda CIVIC TYPE R '08
• Honda INTEGRA TYPE R (DC5) '04
• Volkswagen Golf V GTI '05
• Volkswagen Scirocco R '10
• BMW 135i Coupe '07
• Nissan Fairlady Z Version S (Z33) '07
• Nissan SILVIA spec-R AERO (S15) '02
• Scion FR-S '12
• Subaru BRZ S '12
• TOYOTA 86 GT '12

To save others looking, the following, irritatingly, do not have a flat floor option:

• Abarth Grande Punto '09
• Alfa Romeo 147 TI 2.0 TWIN SPARK '06
• Citroën C4 Coupe 2.0VTS '05
• Ford Focus ST '13
• Honda CR-Z α '10
• Hyundai Genesis Coupe 3.8 Track '13
• Infiniti G35 Coupe '06
• Mazda Atenza Sport 25Z '07
• Nissan SKYLINE Coupe 370GT Type SP '06
• Peugeot 207 GTi '07
• Peugeot 307 CC Premium AVN '04
• Renault Sport Megane R.S. '08
• Renault Sport Megane R.S. Trophy '11
• Volkswagen Golf IV GTI '01
• Volvo C30 R-Design '09

 

[miata13B]

That Silvia looks nice ;-)

 

[MidNightGT]

we should try to pair up controllers, like DS3 Tuner to DS3 driver, G27 to G27, DFGT to DFGT if possible

 

[DaBomm4]

Mandatory Parts

• Front, rear and flat-floor aero must be installed. Rear aero settings may be adjusted
• Racing Brakes
• ECU
• All adjustable parts (suspension, transmission and differential)
• Full drivetrain upgrades
• Carbon Bonnet (coloured optional)
• Chassis Reinforcement (under review)

So, just wondering with the Chassis Reinforcement, will it be allowed to be used, will it be required to be used or will it be banned from use? It could be considered to be a roll cage, and I assume all of the BTCC cars would be required to have one.

 

[MidNightGT]

So, just wondering with the Chassis Reinforcement, will it be allowed to be used, will it be required to be used or will it be banned from use? It could be considered to be a roll cage, and I assume all of the BTCC cars would be required to have one.

I think it should be required, just my vote

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

So, just wondering with the Chassis Reinforcement, will it be allowed to be used, will it be required to be used or will it be banned from use? It could be considered to be a roll cage, and I assume all of the BTCC cars would be required to have one.

The Civic replica uses body rigidity, you can try it without first, it won't be as stiff or responsive ( feels like it has almost no swaybars / strut brace / chassis brace ), you can easily compensate this if you wish by increasing all damper values by 1. You might like the handling without body rigidity, usually the car will requires less steering precision on lower speed corner.

 

[MidNightGT]

The Civic replica uses body rigidity, you can try it without first, it won't be as stiff or responsive ( feels like it has almost no swaybars / strut brace / chassis brace ), you can easily compensate this if you wish by increasing all damper values by 1. You might like the handling without body rigidity, usually the car will requires less steering precision on lower speed corner.

This is an aspect of this comp I really like. Rigidity Improvement, I this find only works good with enough grip, via weight preferably as little as possible, tires, & downforce, or both tires & downforce. The regs here should provide a good platform for the downforce grip and rigidity to all work together.

A little odd, I do the opposite from you @Ridox2JZGTE, If I had it set up track stiff before the install, I lower stiffness in the suspension, if I haven't tuned the car yet I usually end up not as stiff in the suspension vs if I tune without it applied.

 

[CyKosis1973]

So, just wondering with the Chassis Reinforcement, will it be allowed to be used, will it be required to be used or will it be banned from use? It could be considered to be a roll cage, and I assume all of the BTCC cars would be required to have one.

My intention is that it will be a mandatory part, replicating the roll-cage/reinforcement that a BTCC car undergoes. Let me waste the credits and time verifying that the use of chassis reinforcement has a universal effect across the four cars. I'll do it tonight (around 6-8pm GMT), if anyone fancies joining me for a closed session 👍

Regarding track selection, we seem to have had little interest from our brethren in the Southern Hemisphere, so I'm prepared to alter the tracks to make them a little more BTCC. Both Brands GP and Indy are a no brainer, as is Silverstone (National). I'd still like a fourth track, so I had a look at the 2014 calendar:

• Brands Indy
• Donington
• Thruxton
• Oulton Park
• Croft
• Snetterton
• Knockhill
• Rockingham
• Silverstone (National Circuit)
• Brands GP

Nothing stood out immediately, until I got to Rockingham. Would Indianapolis Road Course suffice as a suitable replacement for Rockingham?
{Cy}

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

This is an aspect of this comp I really like. Rigidity Improvement, I this find only works good with enough grip, via weight preferably as little as possible, tires, & downforce, or both tires & downforce. The regs here should provide a good platform for the downforce grip and rigidity to all work together.

A little odd, I do the opposite from you @Ridox2JZGTE, If I had it set up track stiff before the install, I lower stiffness in the suspension, if I haven't tuned the car yet I usually end up not as stiff in the suspension vs if I tune without it applied.

Not odd at all, it depends on the original state of the car ( chassis stiffness without rigidity, downforce, spring rate and ARB used ). The Civic One Make replica was built with body rigidity in the 1st place, so if the replica tune is used on a car without body rigidity, it won't have the same chassis stiffness, to compensate, increasing all damper values by 1 could give close/similar result as if it has body rigidity. It's a patching up solution

When I built my NSX GT2 Team Kunimitsu, I made a base tune without body rigidity and low downforce. Then I installed body rigidity, the only changes I need was lowering all damper values by 1, then it drove very similar to previous state ( without body rigidity ).
This does not apply to all cars, sometimes lowering ARB also works.

The only assumption that I often found to be incorrect is that installing body rigidity will always make a car understeer, this is not always the case. There's no such thing as too much rigidity in a car. All race cars aimed for the highest possible stiffness for better performance and consistency in handling, especially over long distance race. That's why road car manufacturer and race car builder always quoted that they have increased chassis torsional rigidity to meet the performance requirement in order to be competitive or handle better. Just example :

Mustang Convertible (2003) 4,800 Nm/deg vs Porsche Carrera GT - 26,000Nm/degree

Mustang 2014 is 100% stiffer in chassis torsional rigidity than previous generation Mustang.

KTM X BOW RACE GT4 : Carbon composite chassis torsional rigidity 35000Nm/deg of twist ( I have a replica of it made )


I never found a road car in GT6 with body rigidity that becomes worse than without, given a proper setup, and if wanted to fit high grip tires on road car ( racing tires ), body rigidity will give the much needed chassis stiffness and reduce body flex. These can be evidenced from my GT4 and GT3 replicas Even race cars in GT6 benefit from increased body rigidity with proper setup to support it.

 

[MidNightGT]

Not odd at all, it depends on the original state of the car ( chassis stiffness without rigidity, downforce, spring rate and ARB used ). The Civic One Make replica was built with body rigidity in the 1st place, so if the replica tune is used on a car without body rigidity, it won't have the same chassis stiffness, to compensate, increasing all damper values by 1 could give close/similar result as if it has body rigidity. It's a patching up solution

When I built my NSX GT2 Team Kunimitsu, I made a base tune without body rigidity and low downforce. Then I installed body rigidity, the only changes I need was lowering all damper values by 1, then it drove very similar to previous state ( without body rigidity ).
This does not apply to all cars, sometimes lowering ARB also works.

The only assumption that I often found to be incorrect is that installing body rigidity will always make a car understeer, this is not always the case. There's no such thing as too much rigidity in a car. All race cars aimed for the highest possible stiffness for better performance and consistency in handling, especially over long distance race. That's why road car manufacturer and race car builder always quoted that they have increased chassis torsional rigidity to meet the performance requirement in order to be competitive or handle better. Just example :

Mustang Convertible (2003) 4,800 Nm/deg vs Porsche Carrera GT - 26,000Nm/degree

Mustang 2014 is 100% stiffer in chassis torsional rigidity than previous generation Mustang.

KTM X BOW RACE GT4 : Carbon composite chassis torsional rigidity 35000Nm/deg of twist ( I have a replica of it made )


I never found a road car in GT6 with body rigidity that becomes worse than without, given a proper setup, and if wanted to fit high grip tires on road car ( racing tires ), body rigidity will give the much needed chassis stiffness and reduce body flex. These can be evidenced from my GT4 and GT3 replicas Even race cars in GT6 benefit from increased body rigidity with proper setup to support it.

Ahh, you mean do that to compensate if the user doesn't or does have the rigidity installed opposite to how the tune is built. That is exactly the way to do it IMO, and I agree with you on the rest. The only time I find rigidity for me is not a good place to build the tune from is if the car is like a classic with Comfort tires installed. Rigid Chassis and no downforce can be very twitchy on low grip tires.



Good to see the cars are so far performing very tight, should make a good racing event. Will the race be set up so there will be a pit stop, or will it be a sprint? Ive got my car pretty well dialed in and Ive been working on improving tire wear, I think with or without a pit will be fine as long as there is tire wear in the event

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

Ahh, you mean do that to compensate if the user doesn't or does have the rigidity installed opposite to how the tune is built. That is exactly the way to do it IMO, and I agree with you on the rest. The only time I find rigidity for me is not a good place to build the tune from is if the car is like a classic with Comfort tires installed. Rigid Chassis and no downforce can be very twitchy on low grip tires.

Damper, ARB, toe, camber and LSD that actually locks helps Having low LSD values only useful when the driver couldn't make use the power efficiently, having a functional LSD which gives positive locks and a driver that can make the most of it will ensure stable quick cornering. This is an example of old vintage cars with body rigidity, drives well from CS to RH. The replica was done long ago, when camber was broken, it needs revisit

Autodelta Alfa Romeo Giulia Sprint 1600 GTA Historic Touring / Rally Car
Special Build of Autodelta Alfa Romeo 1600 GTA
Comfort Soft to Racing Hard​

View attachment 143131​

CAR : Alfa Romeo Giualia Sprint 1600 GTA '65
Tire : Comfort Soft to Racing Hard

Specs
Horsepower: 184 HP at 6700 RPM
Torque: 152.9 ft-lb at 3900 RPM
Power Limiter at : 97.0%
Weight: 740 kg
Ballast : 5 kg
Ballast Position : 50
Weight Distribution : 54 / 46 as stock
Performance Points: 445


GT AUTO
Oil change
Improve Body Rigidity ( INSTALLED in this build ) - MANDATORY - for racing tires fitment
Wheels : Standard Size - PDI P525N in White or Silver or Black
Car Paint : Alfa Red



Tuning Parts Installed :
Engine Tuning Stage 2
Sports Computer
Racing Exhaust
Isometric Exhaust Manifold
Catalytic Converter Sports
Intake Tuning
Suspension Fully Customizable Kit
Adjustable LSD
Twin Plate Clutch Kit
Fully Customizable Dog Clutch Transmission
Window Weight Reduction
Racing Brakes Kit

View attachment 143132​

Suspension - Autodelta GTAm Coil Over Kit
Front, Rear

Ride Height: 75 75
Spring Rate: 9.00 4.28
Dampers (Compression): 3 5
Dampers (Extension): 3 4
Anti-Roll Bars: 2 3
Camber Angle: 0.2 0.2 ( 0.00 all around for max grip )
Toe Angle: -0.07 0.00


DOG CLUTCH TRANSMISSION - GTA Racing Close Ratio Gear Set with Stock Final
Set Default
Set Final to 5.000
Set Auto Max Speed to 220kmh / 137mph
Adjust each gear :
1st 2.536
2nd 1.701
3rd 1.256
4th 1.000
5th 0.856
Set Final Gear : 4.555 ( Optional Alfa Romeo Final Gear : 3.728, 3.910, 4.100, 4.780, 5.125, 5.375, and 5.860 - shortest )



LSD - 2 Way ZF LSD with 4 Lock Position - 35% Lock
Initial Torque : 32
Acceleration Sensitivity: 20
Braking Sensitivity: 20

View attachment 143130
​

Brake Balance:
3/4 ( personal BB) or for ABS 0 wheel : 3/4, for ABS 1 4/5 or feel free to use your preferred brake balance.


Recommended setting for DS3 user :
Steering sensitivity at +1 or +2, all aids off, except ABS 1 ( if not comfortable with ABS 0 ) with 4/5 brake balance as starting point.



Notes :
Inspired by classic historical touring car and rally car from 60's, I made this special build, not a replica, but rather a tune with replica theme

I based this tune on a real car that has Furiani built racing engine at 184HP that was installed on a very rare race spec Autodelta built Alfa Romeo 1600 GTA ( there were only around 40 built ). The real car has roll cage, 5 speed close ratio gearbox, custom suspension and dry weight at 740kg.

For suspension, I used real life approach in tuning, 1600 GTA has a high rear roll center, while the front has low roll center, even more so when the car is lowered, this produces steep roll axes. This is the main reason the car needs to run very stiff front springs and very soft rear in real life, the same applies in GT6 . This also creates another problem which requires good damper and ARB tuning to balance things out. I settled for 9k/4.28k springs with damper tuned to even the load, and ARB to stabilize the car on entry and mid corners.

LSD is based on 2 way competition spec ZF LSD with larger friction plates, and 4 lock position at 25%, 35%, 50%, and 70%. For this build, I chose 35% lock with optimized initial torque for balance on all tire grades from comfort/street to racing/slick tire.

Gearing is based on racing spec close gear set, with a host of factory final gear options from Alfa Romeo ranging from 3.728 to 5.860. The stock final 4.555 is used on this build.

I tuned and tested on a variety of tracks, from Autumn Ring Mini, Tsukuba, Silverstone Stowe, Fuji Speedway F, and Brands Hatch GP.
When tested at Tsukuba, it managed 1:08s on comfort soft, and at Autumn Ring Mini 45s on comfort soft .
The car has a a lively rear on mid corner to exit, easily controlled with throttle. This gives the driver so much fun and enjoyment on all tires from comfort to racing tires. With racing hard, it's capable of easily post sub 2 minutes at Fuji Speedway F.

 

[MidNightGT]

Damper, ARB, toe, camber and LSD that actually locks helps This is an example of old vintage cars with body rigidity, drives well from CS to RH.

Ill check it out, I usually go the route of through the suspension on comfort tire tunes, but Ill check out how you set her up with rigidity. Might be something I can take out of a different approach.


Would of been nice if PD didn't PP cripple cars with flat floors, they work well together.

 

[CyKosis1973]

Regarding track selection, we seem to have had little interest from our brethren in the Southern Hemisphere, so I'm prepared to alter the tracks to make them a little more BTCC. Both Brands GP and Indy are a no brainer, as is Silverstone (National). I'd still like a fourth track, so I had a look at the 2014 calendar:

• Brands Indy
• Donington
• Thruxton
• Oulton Park
• Croft
• Snetterton
• Knockhill
• Rockingham
• Silverstone (National Circuit)
• Brands GP

Nothing stood out immediately, until I got to Rockingham. Would Indianapolis Road Course suffice as a suitable replacement for Rockingham?
{Cy}

Another alternative would be the Daytona Road Course, both the Indianapolis and Daytona road courses share similarities with Rockingham...

{Cy}

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

Indianapolis Road Course gets my vote, less focus on top speed, more on low speed cornering

 

[PatrisS136]

Indianapolis Road Course gets my vote, less focus on top speed, more on low speed cornering

Oh god , why Indy Road , I'm simple hating this place

BTW @CyKosis1973 Do you need photos for cars banners or is it unnecessary ?

 

[miata13B]

I can go either way, love both courses just as much. Indy however would be more suitable because there is only one long high speed section versus the two longer ones at Daytona.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

Oh god , why Indy Road , I'm simple hating this place

BTW @CyKosis1973 Do you need photos for cars banners or is it unnecessary ?

Because it has less emphasis on top speed, maybe you have better suggestion ?

 

[PatrisS136]

Because it has less emphasize on top speed, maybe you have better suggestion ?

Unfortunately for me NO

 

[CyKosis1973]

Unless anyone else expresses a particular distaste for the Indy Road course, I'm going to revise the track selection as below. For reference I've included track maps for Indianapolis and Rockingham, the tracks share some obvious similarities and I hope it'll provide some stomach churning action going over the start/finish into the first corners. I don't recall whether it was this year or last, but I watched one of the young drivers in the Clio Cup go from something like 10th to the front of the pack going into Deene, purely from braking outrageously late. Anyway, pics and track list below 👍

1. Brands Hatch Indy
2. Indianapolis Road Course
3. Silverstone National Circuit
4. Brands Hatch GP

Rockingham

Indianapolis

Oh god , why Indy Road , I'm simple hating this place

BTW @CyKosis1973 Do you need photos for cars banners or is it unnecessary ?

If you're a whizz with the old photoshop, please feel free to put a banner together, thank you kindly. I'll get the OP updated today to reflect some of the changes.

There seems to be some sort of PSN maintenance going on tonight, if I can get online later, I'll try out the Chassis Reinforcement too...

{Cy}

 

[DolHaus]

Unless anyone else expresses a particular distaste for the Indy Road course, I'm going to revise the track selection as below. For reference I've included track maps for Indianapolis and Rockingham, the tracks share some obvious similarities and I hope it'll provide some stomach churning action going over the start/finish into the first corners. I don't recall whether it was this year or last, but I watched one of the young drivers in the Clio Cup go from something like 10th to the front of the pack going into Deene, purely from braking outrageously late. Anyway, pics and track list below 👍

1. Brands Hatch Indy
2. Indianapolis Road Course
3. Silverstone National Circuit
4. Brands Hatch GP

Rockingham

Indianapolis

If you're a whizz with the old photoshop, please feel free to put a banner together, thank you kindly. I'll get the OP updated today to reflect some of the changes.

There seems to be some sort of PSN maintenance going on tonight, if I can get online later, I'll try out the Chassis Reinforcement too...

{Cy}

Indianapolis is a great circuit once you get used to it and the layout is about as close to rockingham as you're likely to get.

Random bit of trivia - Pif Paf is also present on Ascari

 

[xande1959]

I really like when I want to prepare ascari cars for events with worn tire, use it

 

[PatrisS136]

Unless anyone else expresses a particular distaste for the Indy Road course, I'm going to revise the track selection as below. For reference I've included track maps for Indianapolis and Rockingham, the tracks share some obvious similarities and I hope it'll provide some stomach churning action going over the start/finish into the first corners. I don't recall whether it was this year or last, but I watched one of the young drivers in the Clio Cup go from something like 10th to the front of the pack going into Deene, purely from braking outrageously late. Anyway, pics and track list below 👍

1. Brands Hatch Indy
2. Indianapolis Road Course
3. Silverstone National Circuit
4. Brands Hatch GP

Rockingham

Indianapolis

If you're a whizz with the old photoshop, please feel free to put a banner together, thank you kindly. I'll get the OP updated today to reflect some of the changes.

There seems to be some sort of PSN maintenance going on tonight, if I can get online later, I'll try out the Chassis Reinforcement too...

{Cy}

I'm not good in photoshop , but I'll try to do what I can in Paint ( Yeah, I know what kind of technology it is )

 

[miata13B]

Just an idea, I think setting tire wear and fuel to very fast or fast will add in a new element towards the series. With only ten laps at normal wear you will not get enough fuel depletion to really throw down fast laps.

It also adds an element of strategy with preserving the tires or going all out. I believe that each of these cars can make it through a 10 lap race on very fast, but I am certain on fast it will be no problem.

On another note, will you be adding weather effects in? I have seen some great races from the BTCC if I remember correctly in all out rain. I could barely put it together because I had it on one tv while I was tending the bar at work. I recall Neal being brilliant in the rain.

 

[MidNightGT]

Ive got my car tuned for dry running, maybe rain in a future event.

 

[CyKosis1973]

Just an idea, I think setting tire wear and fuel to very fast or fast will add in a new element towards the series. With only ten laps at normal wear you will not get enough fuel depletion to really throw down fast laps.

It also adds an element of strategy with preserving the tires or going all out. I believe that each of these cars can make it through a 10 lap race on very fast, but I am certain on fast it will be no problem.

On another note, will you be adding weather effects in? I have seen some great races from the BTCC if I remember correctly in all out rain. I could barely put it together because I had it on one tv while I was tending the bar at work. I recall Neal being brilliant in the rain.

We had experimented with tyres/fuel depletion and setting it to fast is a little too much on the tyres. The FWD cars will have nothing left after 10-15 laps. Normal tyres wear is enough to cause problems in the tyre department. Unfortunately, we have no control over fuel, it would be nice if we could put only as much fuel as we thought we might need for a race, that would add an element of danger

Regarding weather, I did the recent Rain Masters seasonal at 500PP on SS tyres and that was a bit of a laugh. I'm happy to consider running weather at one of the race meets. Is there anyone who would be vehemently opposed to utilising weather?

In other news, due to PSN being down for a good portion of the evening, I only managed to try Chassis Reinforcement on the Civic and VW. I think I'm going to make it a mandatory part. The Civic responded very well to the extra chassis stiffness, the VW required a small mod to the setup before it responded in kind. I'll run the Focus and BMW tonight, just to confirm that installing the reinforcement doesn't break either of them, I suspect it won't.

In further news, I have to head up to Scotland for work tomorrow and won't be back until the following day. So, can I ask people to start assembling themselves into teams of two, please? I believe @xande1959 and @787bcgr are already teamed up and @Motor City Hami has expressed interest in building for @Ronald6. It will likely be in your interests to find someone who is geographically close to you, for ease of hooking up to test and we'll try to base the championship around geography as well. Also consider controller choice, I'd think it'd be best to find someone who uses the same type as yourself. I can update Post #2 with this information if needs be.

Work calls, be back later...

{Cy}

 

[MidNightGT]

Might be a good idea to randomize pairing, not everybody knows everybody, and it will avoid pairing issues.