FITT Hot Version Drivetrain Challenge - Congratulations to Lionheart2113 & ImToLegitToQuit

[Lewis_Hamilton_]

So, I got a chance to play for 15-20 minutes Drove my Japanese tuner replica EG6 on CM at Eiger and Deep Forest, 2 laps each, at Eiger the EG6 lap an easy 1:20s on 1st lap, and at Deep Forest 1:34s. I don't think this is a fast time as I used real life alignment

If that's slow, then I'm going to be slow with you I already had a tune for the '92 Civic and '98 SR GTO (though both for 500pp, SM tyres). Basically copy pasted those tunes over to the models being used here with slight adjustments, quick 4 laps each at DF: 1:34.4 in the GTO and 1:33.1 in the Civic.

I was suprised by them both actually, by how balanced and planted the GTO felt considering it's nature to understeer like a semi when stock, and the Civic for being significantly faster. I thought CM tyres for the FF car on a twisty circuit would be a slow world of pain, but it did alright.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

If that's slow, then I'm going to be slow with you I already had a tune for the '92 Civic and '98 SR GTO (though both for 500pp, SM tyres). Basically copy pasted those tunes over to the models being used here with slight adjustments, quick 4 laps each at DF: 1:34.4 in the GTO and 1:33.1 in the Civic.

I was suprised by them both actually, by how balanced and planted the GTO felt considering it's nature to understeer like a semi when stock, and the Civic for being significantly faster. I thought CM tyres for the FF car on a twisty circuit would be a slow world of pain, but it did alright.

I'm still on 1.08 with camber reducing grip and I have some camber front and back on the Civic, and did you use the fixed transmission ? My replicas are basically done on 1.08, driven on 1.11 by testers The test I did recently was meant to show how slow my cars can be , it has stiff coilover from J's Racing CRUX Race line up, medium preload and high lock LSD to boot. I drove them in a way in real life would, throttle blip on downshift, and releasing the throttle on upshift, smooth non aggressive lines at Deep Forest - no curb riding, something that would be similar to a Best Motoring run. The 1st corner is fun at DF, it can be done in quite a few ways, the last corner as well

I just hope that the testers would endure the raw power of my EG6 with aggressive LSD similarly used on most Japanese FF tuner track cars. It needs finesse in choosing the entry line, maintaining balance with throttle and not overcook the front tires to get the optimum traction from mid corner. It's on street tires after all.

 

[DolHaus]

Can I tune for one class and test for the other plz? When I`ve decided which car I hate the least I`ll let you know!

You certainly can, let me know when you decide and I'll add you to the list

 

[787bcgr]

Sign me up for both classes, please.

 

[krenkme]

I don't mind the PP level, I love a spot of 400-450PP hooning around the Ring, but I'm never going to get on with that Civic or Mitsu. I expect that the MR2 is pretty rapid, they're certainly tough to beat at 450PP. I've spent far too much time watching the tail lights of MR2s disappearing over the horizon

{Cy}

So the Civic is the car for me then

 

[787bcgr]

Any limits for ballast, or is it open?

 

[DolHaus]

Any limits for ballast, or is it open?

Open ballast as long as you stay within PP limits 👍

 

[Lewis_Hamilton_]

I'm struggling to choose which car's tune I'll be posting.

I've got one car that is definitely faster, but the slower one is a pleasure and unbelievably easy to drive.

 

[Ronald6]

I think I'm done with my AE86 tune. After four hours today (the most I've played at once in months) I couldn't make any more progress. My arthritis is killing me, but it's worth it.

I think I'll try my hand at the MR2 tomorrow, even though I'm even worse on mid engine tuning.

Is it just me or does the slightest change in a tune at Eiger short track seem like it's exaggerated? I move one "slider" a single notch and I can feel it instantly.

 

[CyKosis1973]

So the Civic is the car for me then

That car may well have been specifically built for you by the Tuning Gods them very selves..!!

Think I may well take on a Road Racer, took out an old favourite of mine from GT5 last night. Still makes me smile. Will try the other three as well, been looking for an excuse to drive them, might as well take the opportunity

{Cy}

 

[suspension]

View attachment 199473

-FITT Hot Version Drivetrain Challenge-

​

Welcome to the FITT Challenge, this time we will be trying to settle the age old debate about which drivetrain is faster. We will put the cars to the ultimate test on winding mountain roads, city streets and racetracks alike to prove once and for all who is the king of the road.

Will you choose the stability and grip of a front-wheel drive or favor the raw thrill of a rear-wheel drive? Do you go for the tried and tested front engine layout or go for the more edgy mid ship layout? Maybe you want the best of both worlds and a four-wheel drive will be your route to victory?

There will be two classes with a representative from each drivetrain to choose from, you may enter either class or both if you should wish. If you enter both classes then you may not choose the same drivetrain twice, this is just to keep things varied and to test your tuning abilities.

This will be a two track, one tune challenge, you must tune your car to suit both tracks as there will be no changes allowed in between. The times from each track will be combined to form your overall time and this will decide your position at the end of the challenge. The Drivers Choice section will be a separate award as usual.

ABS will be optional for tuners this time around, this means that testers must drive the cars as described by the individual tuners request for either ABS 0 or ABS 1.

Time Table​

Beginning Date:
August 6th

Sign Ups:
August 6th - 11th

Tuning Schedule:
Begin: 20:00 GMT - August 11th
End: 20:00 GMT - August 25th

Testing Schedule:
Begin: 20:00 GMT - August 25th
End: 20:00 GMT - September 8th

Global rules for all classes

-No Oil changes-
-No engine rebuilds-
-NOS Not allowed-
-Maximum of 15 point ride height difference front to rear-
-Tuners may not use same drivetrain twice-
ABS Must be set as listed by tuner


Index

Street Classics

Road Racers

Tuners

Testers

Results​

nice title- HOT VERSION- i have a thread with the exact same title.... nice

 

[suspension]

GOOD LUCK

 

[DolHaus]

I'm struggling to choose which car's tune I'll be posting.

I've got one car that is definitely faster, but the slower one is a pleasure and unbelievably easy to drive.

And herein lies the challenge

I think I'm done with my AE86 tune. After four hours today (the most I've played at once in months) I couldn't make any more progress. My arthritis is killing me, but it's worth it.

I think I'll try my hand at the MR2 tomorrow, even though I'm even worse on mid engine tuning.

Is it just me or does the slightest change in a tune at Eiger short track seem like it's exaggerated? I move one "slider" a single notch and I can feel it instantly.

Plenty of time left so no need to rush. (tuning doesn't strictly open until Monday and then there is 2 weeks until deadline)
I doubt the MR2 will do your aches any good, requires a lot of input to keep it pointing in the right direction

That car may well have been specifically built for you by the Tuning Gods them very selves..!!

Think I may well take on a Road Racer, took out an old favourite of mine from GT5 last night. Still makes me smile. Will try the other three as well, been looking for an excuse to drive them, might as well take the opportunity

{Cy}

I'll add you to the list, its a decent selection of cars each with their own perks 👍

nice title- HOT VERSION- i have a thread with the exact same title.... nice

I enjoy watching episodes on Youtube and thought it would make a good basis for a challenge 👍
Will you be joining us this time?

 

[praiano63]

MR2 tune OK , the no ballast & light weight is the fastest option. Also the most difficult to match a still drivable setting .
DF: 1:33.0xx
Eiger: 1:18.5xx

><(((((°>°°°°°°°°°°

 

[DolHaus]

MR2 tune OK , the no ballast & light weight is the fastest option. Also the most difficult to match a still drivable setting .
DF: 1:33.0xx
Eiger: 1:15.5xx

><(((((°>°°°°°°°°°°

Its a tricky car for sure. I like it as it suits my driving style, requires a balance of smooth inputs in some places and aggressive touge style drifting in others to keep it fast. In stock form it doesn't take any prisoners, its either a blisteringly fast lap or a phone call to the insurance company because you've wrapped it around a tree

Great lap times, always hard to gauge performance gain from your times though as you are such a blisteringly fast driver. To match those times I would have to find at least 3 seconds over stock at Eiger and i'm not entirely sure that's possible

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

About a second quicker than Civic at DF, but over 4 seconds at Eiger

 

[praiano63]

Its a tricky car for sure. I like it as it suits my driving style, requires a balance of smooth inputs in some places and aggressive touge style drifting in others to keep it fast. In stock form it doesn't take any prisoners, its either a blisteringly fast lap or a phone call to the insurance company because you've wrapped it around a tree

Great lap times, always hard to gauge performance gain from your times though as you are such a blisteringly fast driver. To match those times I would have to find at least 3 seconds over stock at Eiger and i'm not entirely sure that's possible

Sorry , 1:18.5xx at Eiger.

 

[DolHaus]

Sorry , 1:18.5xx at Eiger.

Hahaha that's more of a reasonable target, was beginning to worry there! I thought the Deep Forest time looked decent but achievable, I just couldn't see where 3 seconds could be found on a short lap like that even by an alien

 

[Otaliema]

Sadly I can't drive the MR2 for nothing. to get a clean lap i'm 3 seconds slower than the GTO on any track. I have problems keeping it stable at mid corner. So off to tune up the GTO for me. if i can't drive it I can't tune it. i really wanted to tune it out but alas, that is a project for another time.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

Sadly I can't drive the MR2 for nothing. to get a clean lap i'm 3 seconds slower than the GTO on any track. I have problems keeping it stable at mid corner. So off to tune up the GTO for me. if i can't drive it I can't tune it. i really wanted to tune it out but alas, that is a project for another time.

This should give a good start for MR2

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/difficult-car-mr2-g-limited-sc-86.312934/

Some tips for suspension on MR2 :

Lower spring rate at the rear than front-there's a fine line that too low rear spring will make the rear unstable/dragging

Lower rear damper extension than rear compression - less eager to rotate, gives better traction but may be giving heavier steering if too low and sudden breakaway.

Lower/equal front compression than extension - higher extension will make steering more responsive, while lower extension than compression will allow better grip under braking but might give understeer.

Higher front ARB than rear, something like 3/1 or 4/2 as in my replica, gives good steering response at the front and reduces sudden weight shift side to side, while at the rear keeping the rear load balanced side to side when on mid corner onwards - too high will make the car tighter on low speed but responsive at higher speed, too low will make the car feels sluggish and more side to side load change. With street tires, finding balance at lower value seems to be good start.

For alignment, front toe in might help if running some camber, it will stabilize the car on entry and help, the turn in might get a slight hit, but MR2 already has sharp turn in, so gain grip on mid corner with toe in + camber Rear toe in will keep the balance to front.
Ride height should not be too low when running low spring rate to more travel on the spring, also take a note on how the camber looked when the car is raised, some tweaks finding a balance between ride height + camber will make the most of the grip on street tires.

Camber, I tend to like real life alignment setup Works quite well on comfort tires. 1.0/1.0 or 2.0/1.5 at most.

Also, don't be afraid to shift weight to the rear, 42/58 ( tuned/lightened RL MR2 ) works well with good setup- stock real life MR2 AW11 has 44.5/55.5, I always play with ballast position, one single click can alter the car balance greatly.

 

[DolHaus]

Sadly I can't drive the MR2 for nothing. to get a clean lap i'm 3 seconds slower than the GTO on any track. I have problems keeping it stable at mid corner. So off to tune up the GTO for me. if i can't drive it I can't tune it. i really wanted to tune it out but alas, that is a project for another time.

The trick is to not try and keep it stable, if it wants to slide then let it slide, just make sure that it lets go when you want it to rather than when it wants to. Put the nose where you want it and then steer with the rear, be gentle on the brakes, aim to have the nose as tight to the apex as you can while letting the rear slide towards the outside of the track.
Its not a car for everyone though, its the sort of barely controlled chaos that I love but other drivers won't get along with.

 

[Otaliema]

This should give a good start for MR2

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/difficult-car-mr2-g-limited-sc-86.312934/

Some tips for suspension on MR2 :

Lower spring rate at the rear than front-there's a fine line that too low rear spring will make the rear unstable/dragging

Lower rear damper extension than rear compression - less eager to rotate, gives better traction but may be giving heavier steering if too low and sudden breakaway.

Lower/equal front compression than extension - higher extension will make steering more responsive, while lower extension than compression will allow better grip under braking but might give understeer.

Higher front ARB than rear, something like 3/1 or 4/2 as in my replica, gives good steering response at the front and reduces sudden weight shift side to side, while at the rear keeping the rear load balanced side to side when on mid corner onwards - too high will make the car tighter on low speed but responsive at higher speed, too low will make the car feels sluggish and more side to side load change. With street tires, finding balance at lower value seems to be good start.

For alignment, front toe in might help if running some camber, it will stabilize the car on entry and help, the turn in might get a slight hit, but MR2 already has sharp turn in, so gain grip on mid corner with toe in + camber Rear toe in will keep the balance to front.
Ride height should not be too low when running low spring rate to more travel on the spring, also take a note on how the camber looked when the car is raised, some tweaks finding a balance between ride height + camber will make the most of the grip on street tires.

Camber, I tend to like real life alignment setup Works quite well on comfort tires. 1.0/1.0 or 2.0/1.5 at most.

Also, don't be afraid to shift weight to the rear, 42/58 ( tuned/lightened RL MR2 ) works well with good setup- stock real life MR2 AW11 has 44.5/55.5, I always play with ballast position, one single click can alter the car balance greatly.

Tried all that, the car would slide in than snap around or I would get a sudden shift out and find my backwards. Maybe after my control mods show up i will have more control and can actually tune it they are due to arive on the 12th...

The trick is to not try and keep it stable, if it wants to slide then let it slide, just make sure that it lets go when you want it to rather than when it wants to. Put the nose where you want it and then steer with the rear, be gentle on the brakes, aim to have the nose as tight to the apex as you can while letting the rear slide towards the outside of the track.
Its not a car for everyone though, its the sort of barely controlled chaos that I love but other drivers won't get along with.

getting it to slide when I wanted wasn't the problem it was control coming out of the slide and getting on the gas. outside wheel spin was present even at a wide open setting of 5, and ajusting the suspension to attempt to get a dual spin just resulted in a car that did what it wanted with out reguard to my inputs.

The main problem is the car wants to drift at every corner, and I'm not a drift driver. I can control them but only to the point of keeping the car from hitting a wall. I just couldn't get it from drifting to grifting. (griping drift) at slower speeds its has fantastic grip through out the corner but, it was so much slower of a drive than sliding it, sliding it scrubed to much speed after the apex and I ended up at the same times as grip driving. O_o

 

[ImToLegitToQuit]

I know the rules are already set but this is a perfect example of a headache situation for testers that I was talking about in the viper challenge thread.

Allowing wheel size, aero, and body rigidity can really bloat cost and time necessities with a large tuner turnout.

Just a thought.

 

[DolHaus]

I know the rules are already set but this is a perfect example of a headache situation for testers that I was talking about in the viper challenge thread.

Allowing wheel size, aero, and body rigidity can really bloat cost and time necessities with a large tuner turnout.

Just a thought.

Not really, the cars are cheap to begin with and the additional parts cost is minimal, even the race cars are below 210k a piece. I think even if you had to buy all the cars, parts and options twice you'd still be way under 3 million 👍

Tried all that, the car would slide in than snap around or I would get a sudden shift out and find my backwards. Maybe after my control mods show up i will have more control and can actually tune it they are due to arive on the 12th...


getting it to slide when I wanted wasn't the problem it was control coming out of the slide and getting on the gas. outside wheel spin was present even at a wide open setting of 5, and ajusting the suspension to attempt to get a dual spin just resulted in a car that did what it wanted with out reguard to my inputs.

The main problem is the car wants to drift at every corner, and I'm not a drift driver. I can control them but only to the point of keeping the car from hitting a wall. I just couldn't get it from drifting to grifting. (griping drift) at slower speeds its has fantastic grip through out the corner but, it was so much slower of a drive than sliding it, sliding it scrubed to much speed after the apex and I ended up at the same times as grip driving. O_o

I'd always suggest taking the time to learn drifting, it allows you to become more confident with tricky cars if you can learn to differentiate between a slide and a complete loss of control, when and how to try and regain control and when to just keep your foot in it (9/10 the answer is more gas! )

 

[Otaliema]

I know the rules are already set but this is a perfect example of a headache situation for testers that I was talking about in the viper challenge thread.

Allowing wheel size, aero, and body rigidity can really bloat cost and time necessities with a large tuner turnout.

Just a thought.

agreed but thankfully most of the cars wont take to a body rigidity and most tuners either go for full rim upgrades or none at all. so in theory testers should only need two of a couple cars and only need to change rims once or twice.

I'd always suggest taking the time to learn drifting, it allows you to become more confident with tricky cars if you can learn to differentiate between a slide and a complete loss of control, when and how to try and regain control and when to just keep your foot in it (9/10 the answer is more gas! )

yeah I need to do that. Learning Grifting right now thats the fastest driving style, it's grip or drifitng but some place inbetween so your riding the car at the limits at all times. I think once I understand grifting drifting will come easily.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

Tried all that, the car would slide in than snap around or I would get a sudden shift out and find my backwards. Maybe after my control mods show up i will have more control and can actually tune it they are due to arive on the 12th...


getting it to slide when I wanted wasn't the problem it was control coming out of the slide and getting on the gas. outside wheel spin was present even at a wide open setting of 5, and ajusting the suspension to attempt to get a dual spin just resulted in a car that did what it wanted with out reguard to my inputs.

The main problem is the car wants to drift at every corner, and I'm not a drift driver. I can control them but only to the point of keeping the car from hitting a wall. I just couldn't get it from drifting to grifting. (griping drift) at slower speeds its has fantastic grip through out the corner but, it was so much slower of a drive than sliding it, sliding it scrubed to much speed after the apex and I ended up at the same times as grip driving. O_o

Have you tried body rigidity ? The MR2 does need delicate throttle and steering on comfort tires. Running higher preload on LSD will keep the rear tires on same speed, it will add understeer to a point, but will also stabilize the rear end. I ran 20/30/30 on stock power MR2 on comfort hard, and it drives well, at least for me My 420/450PP MR2 replica ran 20/30/17.


I think my EG6 has body rigidity as it's a replica based car and my NSX GT2 Team Kunimitsu LM definitely has one, there's no such thing as too much rigidity for a race car

 

[Otaliema]

Have you tried body rigidity ? The MR2 does need delicate throttle and steering on comfort tires. Running higher preload on LSD will keep the rear tires on same speed, it will add understeer to a point, but will also stabilize the rear end. I ran 20/30/30 on stock power MR2 on comfort hard, and it drives well, at least for me My 420/450PP MR2 replica ran 20/30/17.

I wasn't running quite that high. but for my normal LSD settings I was more triple vaules.
Edit i had just been thinking about the ridigity and what i might do for the car...

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

I wasn't running quite that high. but for my normal LSD settings I was more triple vaules.

Worth a try, @XS reviewed my MR2 and he seems to be okay on his DS3 You might need to adjust ARB and damper at the very least to accommodate the aggressive LSD if you ever want to try.

 

[Ronald6]

@Otaliema , try your hand at rally driving, some hours on dirt and gravel should improve your ability with drifting.

 

[DolHaus]

@Otaliema , try your hand at rally driving, some hours on dirt and gravel should improve your ability with drifting.

That's exactly the technique I'm talking about, drive it like a pre-4X4 era tarmac rally car.
You're not looking for massive angle and smoke pouring off the tires, just a way of keeping the momentum going where pure grip isn't a possibility