FITT Hot Version Drivetrain Challenge - Congratulations to Lionheart2113 & ImToLegitToQuit

[Ridox2JZGTE]

I have 2 Racers, one faster at SSR5, the other faster at Twin motegi which to choose? Anyone willing to post their current times in this group

Posted this in the conversation, thought you missed it ?

Okay, this is awkward My NSX GT2 replica I think only has 518PP running lowest aero 150/300. I used Hewland 5 speed ratio with low final to replicate real life top speed at 276+kmh, high camber all around and high lock LSD, on version 1.08 - stuck there for now . My time offline test drive at SSR5 was 1:28s after a couple of laps, and it wasn't a good run with a few too slow cornering speed, almost hit a wall entering the tunnel, then I touched the wall on the last right hander While at Twin Ring Motegi East, 1:27s on 1st lap, was quite fun with some slides + early and late braking. Didn't finish 2nd lap as I gotta do a little house keeping The NSX GT2 has unique handling on SM, won't touch it again, it has character.

 

[Lionheart2113]

Wow, didn't read that the GTO was that popular! @Bowtie-muscle I've got rough times for all 4 cars, but I'm going with the RX-7, the only car that can't be painted. That's ok, I call that color @xande1959 blue! That's his viper tune color in my garage as well.

 

[Bowtie-muscle]

Posted this in the conversation, thought you missed it ?

Okay, this is awkward My NSX GT2 replica I think only has 518PP running lowest aero 150/300. I used Hewland 5 speed ratio with low final to replicate real life top speed at 276+kmh, high camber all around and high lock LSD, on version 1.08 - stuck there for now . My time offline test drive at SSR5 was 1:28s after a couple of laps, and it wasn't a good run with a few too slow cornering speed, almost hit a wall entering the tunnel, then I touched the wall on the last right hander While at Twin Ring Motegi East, 1:27s on 1st lap, was quite fun with some slides + early and late braking. Didn't finish 2nd lap as I gotta do a little house keeping The NSX GT2 has unique handling on SM, won't touch it again, it has character.

Ok so I'm close but a tad behind maybe? 1:29 flat at SSR5 or just under, can just get under 1:27 on Motegi in my other car but it's 3 tenths slower on SSR5......I might have a different car then most in the end. Not feeling like it's going to be a good competition for me .

 

[Lionheart2113]

Ok so I'm close but a tad behind maybe? 1:29 flat at SSR5 or just under, can just get under 1:27 on Motegi in my other car but it's 3 tenths slower on SSR5......I might have a different car then most in the end. Not feeling like it's going to be a good competition for me .

Just gotta leave it in the hands of the testers mate! These are my times for Twin Ring...
1:27.448
1:26.795
1:27.917
1:28.381
That is only with a dummy LSD and transmission tuning.

 

[DolHaus]

Ok so I'm close but a tad behind maybe? 1:29 flat at SSR5 or just under, can just get under 1:27 on Motegi in my other car but it's 3 tenths slower on SSR5......I might have a different car then most in the end. Not feeling like it's going to be a good competition for me .

Remember that everyone else is in the same boat so its nothing to worry about, I chose the tracks specifically to suit different drivetrains and style of setup.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

Ok so I'm close but a tad behind maybe? 1:29 flat at SSR5 or just under, can just get under 1:27 on Motegi in my other car but it's 3 tenths slower on SSR5......I might have a different car then most in the end. Not feeling like it's going to be a good competition for me .

At least you can tune on 1.11, I got stuck on 1.08 - broken camber, so I have to drive cars with less grip, the NSX has a total of 5 camber value all around - so I have to tune cars with lower grip, high lock LSD and no rake, either understeer or oversteer to kill with springs/damper/ARB and toe I am flying blind, not sure if testers will drive well or crashed on 1st turn It will be very interesting to see how the testers would rate my cars , the information alone would be valuable for me, so far @danbojte has been giving positive feedback on my cars built on 1.08 and driven on 1.09 onwards.

 

[Bowtie-muscle]

At least you can tune on 1.11, I got stuck on 1.08 - broken camber, so I have to drive cars with less grip, the NSX has a total of 5 camber value all around - so I have to tune cars with lower grip, high lock LSD and no rake, either understeer or oversteer to kill with springs/damper/ARB and toe I am flying blind, not sure if testers will drive well or crashed on 1st turn It will be very interesting to see how the testers would rate my cars , the information alone would be valuable for me, so far @danbojte has been giving positive feedback on my cars built on 1.08 and driven on 1.09 onwards.

Camber not always a plus with 1 of the cars though. Still searching for a tad bit of grip in one section, if I find it I should make gains. However, still have not found it without messing up the other track

 

[DolHaus]

At least you can tune on 1.11, I got stuck on 1.08 - broken camber, so I have to drive cars with less grip, the NSX has a total of 5 camber value all around - so I have to tune cars with lower grip, high lock LSD and no rake, either understeer or oversteer to kill with springs/damper/ARB and toe I am flying blind, not sure if testers will drive well or crashed on 1st turn It will be very interesting to see how the testers would rate my cars , the information alone would be valuable for me, so far @danbojte has been giving positive feedback on my cars built on 1.08 and driven on 1.09 onwards.

Why are you stuck on 1.08?
I've not given the NSX a spin since testing but my gut feeling says that 5.0 is waaay too much

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

Camber not always a plus with 1 of the cars though. Still searching for a tad bit of grip in one section, if I find it I should make gains. However, still have not found it without messing up the other track

Fine tuning ARB and toe often helps to maintain grip.

Why are you stuck on 1.08?
I've not given the NSX a spin since testing but my gut feeling says that 5.0 is waaay too much

I always got xxxx036 error when downloading updates So, 1.08 for a while. The camber is not 5.0, but front and rear when summed will be 5 or more. If you want to taste how the NSX would drive, try my McLaren MP4-12C and MATECH Ford GT GT3 replica with high camber at Silverstone GP or SSR5, the McLaren was tune of the week on Weekly Rewind when it was running.

MATECH Ford GT GT3 Base Model Replica
Tuned to replicate Matech Ford GT GT3 Base Model version
Sports Soft to Racing Hard​

View attachment 160177
​

CAR : Ford GT '06
Tire : Sports Soft to Racing Hard

Specs
Horsepower: 550 HP at 5800 RPM
Torque : 520.5 ft-lb at 4300 RPM
Power Limiter at : 92%
Weight: 1200 kg
Ballast : 11 kg
Ballast Position : 19
Weight Distribution : 47 / 53
Performance Points: 585


Specs - 500HP version
Horsepower: 500 HP at 7200 RPM
Torque : 520.5 ft-lb at 4300 RPM
Power Limiter at : 83.8%
Weight: 1200 kg
Ballast : 11 kg
Ballast Position : 19
Weight Distribution : 47 / 53
Performance Points: 574

GT AUTO
NO Oil change
Improve Body Rigidity ( INSTALLED IN THIS BUILD ) - MANDATORY as the real Ford GT GT3 has roll cage and chassis reinforcements, as well necessary for racing tire fitment.
Aero Kits Type A
Custom Rear Wing :
Wing Mount Large Standard Type C
Wing Large Type A
Winglets Type A
Height +6 and Width +20
Wheels : Standard Size -- BBS LM-R or OZ Racing Superfogiata or ENKEI RS05RR or RAYS TE37SL or RAYS 57Xtreme painted in Silver
Car Paint : White with Black Stripe or Dark Blue


Tuning Parts Installed :
Racing Exhaust
Fully Customizable Dog Clutch Transmission
Adjustable LSD
Triple Plate Clutch
Fully Customizable Suspension
Racing Brakes Kit
Weigh Reduction Stage 3
Carbon Hood ( Body Color )
Window Weight Reduction

View attachment 160174​

Suspension - Eibach ERS Springs with 2 Way Bilstein Damper ( LOW Camber )
Front, Rear

Ride Height: 70 70
Spring Rate: 15.00 20.20
Dampers (Compression): 6 4
Dampers (Extension): 7 3
Anti-Roll Bars: 4 3
Camber Angle: 0.2 0.2 ( use zero camber all around for max grip )
Toe Angle: -0.08 0.08

Suspension - Eibach ERS Springs with 2 Way Bilstein Damper ( MEDIUM Camber )
Front, Rear

Ride Height: 70 70
Spring Rate: 15.00 20.20
Dampers (Compression): 6 4
Dampers (Extension): 7 3
Anti-Roll Bars: 4 3
Camber Angle: 1.0 1.4
Toe Angle: -0.12 0.16

Suspension - Eibach ERS Springs with 2 Way Bilstein Damper ( HIGH Camber )
Front, Rear

Ride Height: 70 70
Spring Rate: 15.00 20.20
Dampers (Compression): 6 4
Dampers (Extension): 7 3
Anti-Roll Bars: 4 3
Camber Angle: 2.0 2.8
Toe Angle: -0.16 0.24

​

LSD - 2 Way Helical LSD
Initial Torque : 22
Acceleration Sensitivity: 32
Braking Sensitivity: 32


DOG CLUTCH TRANSMISSION - Hewland 6 Speed Sequential
Install all power parts
Set Default
Set Final to 4.200
Set Auto Max Speed at 250kmh / 155mph
Adjust each gear :
1st 3.121
2nd 2.235
3rd 1.764
4th 1.473
5th 1.232
6th 1.037
Set Final : 3.000 ( adjust according to track )

AERO
REAR : 220 ( MAX )


Brake Balance:
4/5 ( personal BB) or for ABS 0 wheel : 3/3, for ABS 1 - feel free to use your preferred brake balance. I recommend to run 5/6 for ABS 1.

Recommended setting for DS3 user :

Steering sensitivity at +1 or +2, all aids off, except ABS 1 ( if not comfortable with ABS 0 ) with 5/6 brake balance as starting point.

View attachment 160178
​

Notes :


The MATECH Ford GT GT3 was famous back in 2007 and 2008.

This replica is based on the car. First of all, I can't get the weight of the real car at 1180kg, so I decided to use 1200kg and maintain the stock weight distribution at 47/53.

Power is at 550HP, this time I also provided the low power version, suitable for Blancpain spec of sort at 500HP.

Suspension of the real car was based on Eibach springs and 2 way Bilstein racing damper. I used high spring rate at 15kg/mm front and 20.20kg/mm rear. This gives very good stability at smooth tracks, with damper set on softer side to maintain composure on bumpy tracks and keep the rear stable. The balance is easily shifted with trail braking and sharp steering, giving good turn in and stable directional changes.

I have provided 3 sets of camber setup, each with tailored toe values. Try them all, use which one you prefer.

LSD is 2 way, with medium preload and high accel + braking. For gearing, the real car has Hewland 6 speed sequential, I used the same ratio fitted on the Ferrari 458 Italia GT3, and it works so well, and gives the ability to use the lower gears to maintain speed and stability through low and medium speed corners. Very useful on esses like at Suzuka. The car also uses Tilton Triple Plate clutch, so I installed triple plate clutch on this build.

The MATECH Ford GT GT3 was tuned and tested at Silverstone GP, Bathurst, Suzuka and Brands Hatch GP.

During testing, with 500HP low power and camber setup, it was capable of 2:02s at Silverstone GP and 1:59s at Suzuka on RH tire

ENJOY

View attachment 160176​

McLaren MP4-12C GT3 Base Model Replica
Tuned to replicate McLaren MP4-12C GT3 Base Model version
Sports Soft to Racing Hard​

​

CAR : McLaren MP4-12C '10
Tire : Sports Soft to Racing Hard

Specs
Horsepower: 494 HP or 500+ PS at 6400 RPM
Torque : 465.0 ft-lb at 3000 RPM
Power Limiter at : 82.3%
Weight: 1240 kg
Ballast : 27 kg
Ballast Position : 36
Weight Distribution : 43 / 57
Performance Points: 565


GT AUTO
NO Oil change
Improve Body Rigidity ( INSTALLED IN THIS BUILD ) - MANDATORY as the real MP4-12C has 9 point roll cage and chassis reinforcements, as well necessary for racing tire fitment.
Custom Rear Wing :
Wing Mount Large Standard Type F
Wing Large Type B
Winglets Type A
Height +9 and Width +11
Wheels : Standard Size -- BBS RE-MG or BBS LM-R or BLITZ BRW Profile 08 or ENKEI RC-T4 or ENKEI RP03 TypeRC or ENKEI RS05RR or RAYS TE37SL or RAYS VR.G2 painted in Black ( Matte or Solid )
Car Paint : Papaya Orange or Sunburst Yellow or White or Black ( Matte )


Tuning Parts Installed :
Fully Customizable Dog Clutch Transmission
Adjustable LSD
Fully Customizable Suspension
Racing Brakes Kit
Weigh Reduction Stage 1
Carbon Hood ( Body Color )
Window Weight Reduction


Suspension - Eibach ERS Springs and DSSV Damper ( LOW Camber )
Front, Rear

Ride Height: 55 55
Spring Rate: 14.00 20.00
Dampers (Compression): 7 5
Dampers (Extension): 8 4
Anti-Roll Bars: 4 4
Camber Angle: 0.2 0.2 ( use zero camber all around for max grip )
Toe Angle: -0.08 0.08

Suspension - Eibach ERS Springs and DSSV Damper ( MEDIUM Camber )
Front, Rear

Ride Height: 55 55
Spring Rate: 14.00 20.00
Dampers (Compression): 7 5
Dampers (Extension): 8 4
Anti-Roll Bars: 4 4
Camber Angle: 1.0 1.4
Toe Angle: -0.12 0.24

Suspension - Eibach ERS Springs and DSSV Damper ( HIGH Camber )
Front, Rear

Ride Height: 55 55
Spring Rate: 14.00 20.00
Dampers (Compression): 7 5
Dampers (Extension): 8 4
Anti-Roll Bars: 4 4
Camber Angle: 2.2 3.0
Toe Angle: -0.16 0.32

View attachment 158990​

LSD - 1.5 Way
Initial Torque : 20
Acceleration Sensitivity: 35
Braking Sensitivity: 15


DOG CLUTCH TRANSMISSION - Ricardo or Xtrac 6 Speed
Install all power parts
Set Default
Set Final to 4.930
Set Auto Max Speed at 280kmh / 174mph
Adjust each gear :
1st 3.170
2nd 2.071
3rd 1.647
4th 1.350
5th 1.143
6th 1.000
7th 0.661 ( IGNORE this when driving for authenticity )
Set Final : 3.600 ( adjust according to track, 3.600 final is good for 190mph/300+kmh top speed )

AERO
REAR : 100 ( MAX )


Brake Balance:
4/3 ( personal BB) or for ABS 0 wheel : 4/3, for ABS 1 - feel free to use your preferred brake balance. I recommend to run 5/4 for ABS 1.

Recommended setting for DS3 user :

Steering sensitivity at +1 or +2, all aids off, except ABS 1 ( if not comfortable with ABS 0 ) with 5/4 brake balance as starting point.

View attachment 158991
​

Notes :


The McLaren is one of the most fun replica I ever built

This base GT3 replica has only 500PS and 1240kg, but it's performance is on par with proper GT3 racing cars on similar power.

I provided 3 different sets of camber this time, feel free to try all of them, and pick the one that gives the best feel on the track. Everything from spring rate, damper and ARB has been tuned to work with all 3 camber sets, toe also tailored to suit on each camber setup.

LSD is 1.5 way this time to make the car easier to push with camber setup.

For gearing, I have no good information on the ratio, some sites mention Ricardo 6 speed, others mention Xtrac 6 Speed, so I decided to use 416 Xtrac ratio, and it worked quite well on the car, giving ample top speed and acceleration. The gear can be used for engine braking effectively for stabilizing the car under heavy braking or just to help the nose pointed on apex in medium and low speed corners. Never fear to shift down on 1st and 2nd to help the car change direction.

I tuned/tested at Silverstone GP, Bathurst and Nordschleife this time. Even with High Camber setup, the MP4-12C GT3 is capable of 2:02s lap at Silverstone GP on RH tire.

The camber setup has been tested on RH tire only, take your own risk using it on SS tire

ENJOY

 

[DolHaus]

Fine tuning ARB and toe often helps to maintain grip.



I always got xxxx036 error when downloading updates So, 1.08 for a while. The camber is not 5.0, but front and rear when summed will be 5 or more. If you want to taste how the NSX would drive, try my McLaren MP4-12C and MATECH Ford GT GT3 replica with high camber at Silverstone GP or SSR5, the McLaren was tune of the week on Weekly Rewind when it was running.

Do you work in advertising by any chance?

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

Do you work in advertising by any chance?

No, I'll delete them if you wish.

 

[DolHaus]

No, I'll delete them if you wish.

Nah don't worry mate, I'm only messing with you

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

Nah don't worry mate, I'm only messing with you

You got me there Come to think of it, I got nothing good to advertise, all of my cars are slower than other tuners Best I can offer is sweat, a lot of sweat when driving my cars, handful and tense

 

[Lionheart2113]

You got me there Come to think of it, I got nothing good to advertise, all of my cars are slower than other tuners Best I can offer is sweat, a lot of sweat when driving my cars, handful and tense

I wouldn't say just that. I'm always amazed at how much work you put in for a replica!

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

I wouldn't say just that. I'm always amazed at how much work you put in for a replica!

Thanks They are more like 90% research and test driving, only 10% tuning

 

[DolHaus]

You got me there Come to think of it, I got nothing good to advertise, all of my cars are slower than other tuners Best I can offer is sweat, a lot of sweat when driving my cars, handful and tense

You have a very popular garage so you must be doing something right 👍
Replicas aren't my kind of thing personally as without physically driving the original at race pace I would have no point of reference to compare with, there is obviously a demand for them though and you do very well to stay at the top of your field in those circles.
All of the cars of yours I have tested in other contests have felt very unique and balanced but your use of camber pre 1.09 has been costing you time, maybe now its fixed you might be less hampered by grip loss. I would really suggest finding a way to update though as camber can be a tricky beast and relying on other people to tell you how its working is kind of like trying to work out what something feels like by using someone else's hand

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

You have a very popular garage so you must be doing something right 👍
Replicas aren't my kind of thing personally as without physically driving the original at race pace I would have no point of reference to compare with, there is obviously a demand for them though and you do very well to stay at the top of your field in those circles.
All of the cars of yours I have tested in other contests have felt very unique and balanced but your use of camber pre 1.09 has been costing you time, maybe now its fixed you might be less hampered by grip loss. I would really suggest finding a way to update though as camber can be a tricky beast and relying on other people to tell you how its working is kind of like trying to work out what something feels like by using someone else's hand

I still consider my garage just little shop in a corner catering for unique interests, I just have to thank all of the people who still visited my garage and post there, and I still aiming at least 1 or 2 cars a week

I will try another ISP in a week, I have been busy lately, finding time to play is already hard I have both entries ready, just need to find an hour or two to play and post them.

With camber, I'm gathering more data based on feedback, I used to be worried that the camber amount that I used will cause some cars to have too much rear grip or front grip, therefore ruining the balance that I have on 1.08 when driven on 1.09 to 1.11, but it seems strange that my recent replicas built on 1.08 can be driven well on 1.09 to 1.11, @XS review on the MR2 ( 1.09 and 1.10 ) was a great source, the tweaks I added works on 1.08 and 1.10.
The current Mustang Difficult Car thread would be a testing ground for my Saleen replicas.


The majority of feedback from danbojte also have been positive, so I need to find the link as to why a car built on 1.08 works on 1.09 onwards - not strictly on lap time, but overall driving experience. Could it be just from hard to drive to easier to drive as the grip reduction do not occur ? or damper/ARB and toe works differently on 1.08 ? I have updated my Evora GT4 with equal ride height / no rake setup, it will interesting to compare the feedback to original rake setup ( front lower ). Damper and ARB are the main focus of the Evora.

Right now, the testers in this event would be my assistants I also have some regulars at my garage who gave feedback and review, particularly @danbojte, thanks friend for all the time spent driving and typing them, also several TOTW

 

[DolHaus]

I will try another ISP in a week, I have been busy lately, finding time to play is already hard I have both entries ready, just need to find an hour or two to play and post them.

With camber, I'm gathering more data based on feedback, I used to be worried that the camber amount that I used will cause some cars to have too much rear grip or front grip, therefore ruining the balance that I have on 1.08 when driven on 1.09 to 1.11, but it seems strange that my recent replicas built on 1.08 can be driven well on 1.09 to 1.11, @XS review on the MR2 ( 1.09 and 1.10 ) was a great source, the tweaks I added works on 1.08 and 1.10.
The current Mustang Difficult Car thread would be a testing ground for my Saleen replicas.


The majority of feedback from danbojte also have been positive, so I need to find the link as to why a car built on 1.08 works on 1.09 onwards - not strictly on lap time, but overall driving experience. Could it be just from hard to drive to easier to drive as the grip reduction do not occur ? or damper/ARB and toe works differently on 1.08 ? I have updated my Evora GT4 with equal ride height / no rake setup, it will interesting to compare the feedback to original rake setup ( front lower ). Damper and ARB are the main focus of the Evora.

Right now, the testers in this event would be my assistants I also have some regulars at my garage who gave feedback and review, particularly @danbojte, thanks friend for all the time spent driving and typing them, also several TOTW

Its hard to describe exactly what camber is doing but for certain I can say that Toe slightly changes in application and must be set to match camber otherwise you get a big helping of understeer on entry. The effectiveness of camber is very dependant on other settings, ARB settings become way more noticeable, ride height becomes more critical as well. Its hard to describe all the small nuances but it does require a slightly different approach, it can be kind of counter intuitive at times.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

Its hard to describe exactly what camber is doing but for certain I can say that Toe slightly changes in application and must be set to match camber otherwise you get a big helping of understeer on entry. The effectiveness of camber is very dependant on other settings, ARB settings become way more noticeable, ride height becomes more critical as well. Its hard to describe all the small nuances but it does require a slightly different approach, it can be kind of counter intuitive at times.

Adding toe in or out on front tire with camber do have an effect even on 1.08, this was easily felt on most of my FF cars, even rear toe in with 1+ camber on FF cars can help in mid corner - I have a Toyota bB replica with 0.40 rear toe in and 1.2 camber
With the Evora GT4 no rake setup, one click down on front ARB can transform the car at Nordschleife, it's a balancing act, camber, toe, ARB and damper to make cars with unique handling like Evora at least manageable.
I have been testing Evora suspension tunes made in 1.10 and 1.11, driven on 1.08, using 2:11s benchmark on SS tire at Silverstone GP 355HP, 1200kg, 505PP, 39/61, the replica can do it with 1.2/2.5 camber ( using only suspension and LSD changes from other tunes on Evora GT4 replica ) they are quite unstable at times even with zero camber either due to roll or loose rear, adding camber do not help much either as I have to tweak damper, ARB and toe to make them more predictable to my driving.

Ride height has been very crucial with cambered cars, seems that it has some effect on camber gain during cornering and under load ( squat and dive ), and some suspension toe out under load/compression (GC/GD WRX rear suspension, Ferrari 360/F430/Stradale/Scuderia toe-out under compression). There's a range of sweet spot where camber even with reduced grip will give some bite or just feels bitey on entry and exit.

 

[DolHaus]

Adding toe in or out on front tire with camber do have an effect even on 1.08, this was easily felt on most of my FF cars, even rear toe in with 1+ camber on FF cars can help in mid corner - I have a Toyota bB replica with 0.40 rear toe in and 1.2 camber

This may be where the difference will occur, if you tried that amount of rear Toe In with camber (post 1.09) you would end up with a car that would be hugely difficult to rotate. Adding camber is like automatically adding a lot of Toe In, if you want to maintain rotation then you need to counter the effect by either reducing Toe In or adding Toe Out. Its odd, I can only really describe it as if the 0.00 reference point for toe moves into the minus (Toe Out) when camber is applied

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

This may be where the difference will occur, if you tried that amount of rear Toe In with camber (post 1.09) you would end up with a car that would be hugely difficult to rotate. Adding camber is like automatically adding a lot of Toe In, if you want to maintain rotation then you need to counter the effect by either reducing Toe In or adding Toe Out. Its odd, I can only really describe it as if the 0.00 reference point for toe moves into the minus (Toe Out) when camber is applied

The front tires of FF cars will tend to toe in at speed, so toe out will help and with camber in the mix, things get complicated On RWD cars, the front tires will tend to toe out as it's being pushed, a toe in will help to even things out. Camber introduce more changes to toe, it may also depend on the ride height, I have been using toe out on RWD front tires and toe in on FF car front tires, it may be due to the amount of camber used.

 

[DolHaus]

The front tires of FF cars will tend to toe in at speed, so toe out will help and with camber in the mix, things get complicated On RWD cars, the front tires will tend to toe out as it's being pushed, a toe in will help to even things out. Camber introduce more changes to toe, it may also depend on the ride height, I have been using toe out on RWD front tires and toe in on FF car front tires, it may be due to the amount of camber used.

I think its more to do with camber thrust rather than the effects of active toe, these things are of course still a factor but their effects are secondary rather than dominant.
If you imagine looking down on the car from above then with 0.0 camber and 0.00 toe then the wheels are pointing straight ahead and their intended line of travel is the same.
If we were to add 0.20 Toe In to the front wheels then their line of travel now points in towards the centre line of the car. The line will be straight and meet at a certain point in front of the car.
Now if we remove the Toe In and put 1.0 degrees of negative camber we would see a similar change to the intended travel lines as we would with Toe In, the lines will point in towards the centre line of the car due to the tyre pushing back. The line will be an arc rather than straight but will converge in a similar way to Toe In.
In order to counteract this effect we need to use an amount of Toe Out to effectively straighten the lines of travel back to 0.00.

 

[Bowtie-muscle]

I think its more to do with camber thrust rather than the effects of active toe, these things are of course still a factor but their effects are secondary rather than dominant.
If you imagine looking down on the car from above then with 0.0 camber and 0.00 toe then the wheels are pointing straight ahead and their intended line of travel is the same.
If we were to add 0.20 Toe In to the front wheels then their line of travel now points in towards the centre line of the car. The line will be straight and meet at a certain point in front of the car.
Now if we remove the Toe In and put 1.0 degrees of negative camber we would see a similar change to the intended travel lines as we would with Toe In, the lines will point in towards the centre line of the car due to the tyre pushing back. The line will be an arc rather than straight but will converge in a similar way to Toe In.
In order to counteract this effect we need to use an amount of Toe Out to effectively straighten the lines of travel back to 0.00.

And what if you add rear camber? More toe in or out?

 

[ImToLegitToQuit]

I have 2 Racers, one faster at SSR5, the other faster at Twin motegi which to choose? Anyone willing to post their current times in this group

I'm sitting at 1:26.9xx at motegi with some room to approve. Still deciding between rx7 and nsx.

 

[DolHaus]

And what if you add rear camber? More toe in or out?

Exactly the same basic processes although it should be noted that you will never be able to truly reach the straight line effect of 0.00 Toe and rotation will always be affected by adding rear camber.
Once camber is applied the wheel will always have a slight Toe In due to the way arcs work and adding any amount of Toe Out to the rear will have the same slightly unstable effect as when applied at 0.0 camber and is not to be recommended. This is also why you shouldn't run as much camber at the rear unless trying to cure instability, it will only make the rear difficult to rotate even when set to 0.00 Toe.

In my experience rear camber is there to complement front camber and give it something to push against, it should always be lower than the front to aid rotation unless instability is a major problem. If you are running a small amount of front camber (< 1.0) then you probably don't need any rear camber at all, if you are running more then you will need a relative amount at the rear to stop the car doing that weird "nodding" thing on longer corners where it seems to get/lose grip constantly. I believe this is due to the rear tires slipping because they can't hold the same amount of load as the front and are dumping the excess, camber seems to work best under constant high load.

 

[CyKosis1973]

Ok so I'm close but a tad behind maybe? 1:29 flat at SSR5 or just under, can just get under 1:27 on Motegi in my other car but it's 3 tenths slower on SSR5......I might have a different car then most in the end. Not feeling like it's going to be a good competition for me .

Just gotta leave it in the hands of the testers mate! These are my times for Twin Ring...
1:27.448
1:26.795
1:27.917
1:28.381
That is only with a dummy LSD and transmission tuning.

@Lionheart2113 is right, if this is your first shootout @Bowtie-muscle, don't worry too much about your own times. Once testing starts, you'll likely find a wide variance of tester times. These things are a bit of an emotional roller-coaster. Certainly when I first started partaking in these events, I was crushed by the responses. Cars I could throw around and post good times in, were difficult for others to get on with. However, this is balanced by getting those one or two glowing responses and of course, the ridiculous times posted by our alien bretheren. I don't know how many times I've been left slack-jawed at the times some of these guys post, using my own gawddamn car!!

These are the ups and downs and you'll come to love them. As I say, don't worry too much about your times, you'll find your place in the pack soon enough. Concentrate on making your car as easy to drive as possible. There will be a wide range of drivers using your car, the more styles you can include, the better the reception 👍

On which note, @DolHaus, please sign me up for the Evo TC, Sir. I'm sacrificing good looks and speed for some ugly 4WD, hoonery, which probably won't come as a surprise to some

{Cy}

 

[Lionheart2113]

@Lionheart2113 is right, if this is your first shootout @Bowtie-muscle, don't worry too much about your own times. Once testing starts, you'll likely find a wide variance of tester times. These things are a bit of an emotional roller-coaster. Certainly when I first started partaking in these events, I was crushed by the responses. Cars I could throw around and post good times in, were difficult for others to get on with. However, this is balanced by getting those one or two glowing responses and of course, the ridiculous times posted by our alien bretheren. I don't know how many times I've been left slack-jawed at the times some of these guys post, using my own gawddamn car!!

These are the ups and downs and you'll come to love them. As I say, don't worry too much about your times, you'll find your place in the pack soon enough. Concentrate on making your car as easy to drive as possible. There will be a wide range of drivers using your car, the more styles you can include, the better the reception 👍

On which note, @DolHaus, please sign me up for the Evo TC, Sir. I'm sacrificing good looks and speed for some ugly 4WD, hoonery, which probably won't come as a surprise to some

{Cy}

Glad to see you back entering the may lay, good sir!

 

[Bowtie-muscle]

@Lionheart2113 is right, if this is your first shootout @Bowtie-muscle, don't worry too much about your own times. Once testing starts, you'll likely find a wide variance of tester times. These things are a bit of an emotional roller-coaster. Certainly when I first started partaking in these events, I was crushed by the responses. Cars I could throw around and post good times in, were difficult for others to get on with. However, this is balanced by getting those one or two glowing responses and of course, the ridiculous times posted by our alien bretheren. I don't know how many times I've been left slack-jawed at the times some of these guys post, using my own gawddamn car!!

These are the ups and downs and you'll come to love them. As I say, don't worry too much about your times, you'll find your place in the pack soon enough. Concentrate on making your car as easy to drive as possible. There will be a wide range of drivers using your car, the more styles you can include, the better the reception 👍

On which note, @DolHaus, please sign me up for the Evo TC, Sir. I'm sacrificing good looks and speed for some ugly 4WD, hoonery, which probably won't come as a surprise to some

{Cy}

Not my first shootout, just trying to size up the competition to see if I am close to where I need to be. @Lionheart2113 even as a thumb smasher always seems to be a little bit faster than me so I can use that as a fairly good gauge. I'm not totally happy with it yet but my times should be in line with others, just need to choose between comfort and control, or fast and with a learning curve. I have got some time left. And you're right, some testers like my rides and others cannot drive them fast. That's what make it fun, to hear differing reviews on the same tune. Welcome back and good luck.

 

[Ronald6]

I remember when Hami used to get mad at me for beating him (repeatedly) with his own tune.

Good times.
Good times.

 

[CyKosis1973]

Glad to see you back entering the may lay, good sir!

Thank you kindly, Sir. I saw a Clueless opportunity and thought it rude to not take advantage. In a straight line, the Evo is going to get its considerable rear kicked, but I trust it'll make people smile, if only because of its ridiculously angry face

Not my first shootout, just trying to size up the competition to see if I am close to where I need to be. And you're right, some testers like my rides and others cannot drive them fast. That's what make it fun, to hear differing reviews on the same tune. Welcome back and good luck.

Hope I wasn't teaching you to suck eggs. Whilst I might not enjoy the more anxious times and the self-doubt, the whole process is worthwhile and hopefully beneficial to all. Thanks for the welcome, I'm looking forward to finding out where my new place in the pack is 👍

I remember when Hami used to get mad at me for beating him (repeatedly) with his own tune.

Good times.
Good times.

Pretty sure you've embarrassed me in my own car on a few occasions. Do it again and I'm gonna tape the Evos exhausts to the basement window Joking aside, I'm a slow and steady kinda guy and as such am happiest when my cars are doing just as well, if not better, in someone else's hands. I'm sure I've missed a vocation as a race mechanic...

{Cy}