FITT - Moving on to GT6!

[nomis3613]

If nobody minds terribly I will shove my nose in here, take over and start banging out a schedule with dates and all. I will go back over the thread and check out what is what, PM some folks and start putting events up on a calendar.

Please, please, please do so!!

No offence, but XDesperado67 seems to be MIA. If someone can update the calendar and give my 60/40 40/60 thing a spot in the queue, I'd be eternally grateful! (I keep seeing all these new shootouts appear out of nowhere, so I'm wondering if mine will actually get a run before GT6...)

Many tuners might not join because of the required driving/testing.

It's the only way that I see to get enough testers. I think with the game entering it's sunset, there needs to be a new method. I don't think that limiting the number of tuners is the answer. That clearly isn't working based on the current one offs.

If I get ten tuners/testers, I think that would be a win. If I get 15 to 20 I will consider that a bonus. I don't think that we will get 30 tuners like we have in the past.

So it would seem the choices are:
1. Limit to ten tunes and get two tester reviews.
or
2. Require all tuners to also test, get 10+ tuners and 10+ tester feedback.

I will test option two.

I completely agree with Hami. Hope it works out.

 

[CSLACR]

If nobody minds terribly I will shove my nose in here, take over and start banging out a schedule with dates and all. I will go back over the thread and check out what is what, PM some folks and start putting events up on a calendar.

Regarding length, I am thinking to make the standard 10 days to tune, 10 days to test. I will assume one round before starting the next event, possibly a few days between. If a round two needs to happen I will give it 10 days to finish up as a default. This can go on while tuners are gearing up on the next event; a round two would not delay the start of the next shootout.

In the case that folks are not ready to start on time they will be bumped back one "slot" and I will find the next ready host. Other events may and probably will pop up while these "main" events are happening which should be OK. If it gets overwhelming people will just stop participating on their own which should more or less keeps things where they need to be.

And of course I will advertise as much as I can through our new social outlets. We'll see how those work out for drawing folks to our events.

Any other thoughts? Objections? Pies?

Sounds awesome.👍
20 days a shootout, no time taken from other shootouts by a final round, should be a nice balance and get them out quicker.

I am ready with Rally and Street. I have purchased every possible car that can be used in the shootout and compared PP levels. I have tested the newer rally cars vs the 90's beasts and optimized PP levels. I have picked the tracks and tested out my new scoring system.

I think we have to work timing around weekends since many of us can only really play on weekends. That won't exactly meet the 10 days to tune and 10 days to test. Thinking this timing for my shootout.

August 1st - Thread with final details goes live.
Let's make it 12 days to tune to make the tuner deadline on a Sunday night. So tuner deadline will be August 12.

Tester deadline will then be two Sunday's later on August 26.

No tuner limit, but a requirement that all tuners also test. If you don't test by the deadline, your tune will be removed from the final results. I will break testing into groups of ten cars or less.

Well, I recently became against month-long shootouts, and that's pretty much all of August, so it's just another month-long shootout.

Plus, it's only testing left in the Nurburgring challange, if we recall the 4-week system, it starts the second shootout once testing begins for the first. This way every shootout can take a month and we have one every 2-3 weeks.

Please, please, please do so!!

No offence, but XDesperado67 seems to be MIA. If someone can update the calendar and give my 60/40 40/60 thing a spot in the queue, I'd be eternally grateful! (I keep seeing all these new shootouts appear out of nowhere, so I'm wondering if mine will actually get a run before GT6...)

Well I'd thought you were next, whomever is next between you and Hami can/should (imo) start their shootout in the next few days.


As for requiring all tuners to test, it is fair, but it's a large load. Especially if done every shootout. Most tuners have not tested a single shootout, suddenly having to test will probably drop interest.
If people want more judges or different judges, they need to start testing, if not, they'll have to deal with what they get. Participation will regulate itself on this for the most part, I think divisions requiring less cars to test is a good helper.
I don't know, maybe I'm wrong, it should certainly work for the first shootout that does it,(everyone likes to try new things) so no harm in trying.

 

[trackripper123]

As for requiring all tuners to test, it is fair, but it's a large load. Especially if done every shootout. Most tuners have not tested a single shootout, suddenly having to test will probably drop interest.
If people want more judges or different judges, they need to start testing, if not, they'll have to deal with what they get. Participation will regulate itself on this for the most part, I think divisions requiring less cars to test is a good helper.
I don't know, maybe I'm wrong, it should certainly work for the first shootout that does it,(everyone likes to try new things) so no harm in trying.

I agree, in theory it's completely fair for tuners to test, but in reality, with work and just life in general, it looks quite unrealistic, and I suspect interest will drop.

 

[Ronald6]

Isn't my Caterham Shootout before the Rally?

My Fireblade shootout tuning ends July 29th and the first round ends Aug 2nd.
I have the Rally starting on Aug 1st.
Is this right?

I already have tuners and drivers signed up. I would dislike changing the dates on them. I have no problem changing the dates personally, but it's not fair to those who signed up.

Edit:
I got my original dates wrong in my shootout thread. Now I have:
'86 Shootout: July 22nd (tomorrow) to finish testing.
C7Fb Shootout: July 29th to finish tuning. (I originally said I would give everyone a week off between events, and with the Classic Shootout underway it still seems like a good idea.)
Aug 5th to finish round one testing. A week should be all thats needed, 'permanent mods' aren't possible so it's easy to use the same car for three tunes.
Rally Shootout:
Starts Aug 5?
Aug 15? to finish tunes.
Aug 26? to finish testing.

 

[Motor City Hami]

If we are going to ask all tuners to also test, then we can't double up the pain and cut the shootouts down to 2 or 3 weeks. I think I heard one major FITT sanctioned shootout per month and anyone's mini shootouts in between?

CSLACR, until this current X shootout, your Nurburgring was the longest of all shootouts, two rounds and the longest track in the game. Now you want to shorten every one elses.

Ronald, I think you are down the list a bit. I asked to be put on the list back in late April or early May. I have been patiently waiting since. The last month has just been out of control with shootouts.

 

[nomis3613]

If we are going to ask all tuners to also test, then we can't double up the pain and cut the shootouts down to 2 or 3 weeks. I think I heard one major FITT sanctioned shootout per month and anyone's mini shootouts in between?

Sounds great. There will always be "un-FITT" shootouts running anyway if people are looking for more shootout action. We just need to make sure that mini-shootouts actually stay mini. And preferably that they don't overlap with the Testing phase of the "main" shootout, cos this is when the testers are most busy.

CSLACR, until this current X shootout, your Nurburgring was the longest of all shootouts...

Maybe his epic shootout made him realise shootouts are better if they're shorter, so he's trying to help others out with the suggestions. Anyway, given the backlog of shootouts waiting to happen and lack of testers, I think for the moment we need to be stopping them dragging out.

 

[Motor City Hami]

given the backlog of shootouts waiting to happen and lack of testers, I think for the moment we need to be stopping them dragging out.

Agree. I picked tracks for the shootout with quick testing in mind. One track will have lap times under 1:20 and the other under 2:10. Five laps on each track should be around 30 minutes of testing per car. Keeping test lists at 10 or under means a 5 hour testing time commitment over a two weekend period. If people want to test more groups, fine.

If I only get say 15 tuners/testers signed up, then it will be two groups of eight/seven. That'll even be shorter. The key will be whether my scoring system works with just one round. I WILL NOT be adding a second round so the scoring test, which I believe will work, is what it is.

 

[CSLACR]

CSLACR, until this current X shootout, your Nurburgring was the longest of all shootouts, two rounds and the longest track in the game. Now you want to shorten every one elses..

Well...

Maybe his epic shootout made him realise shootouts are better if they're shorter, so he's trying to help others out with the suggestions. Anyway, given the backlog of shootouts waiting to happen and lack of testers, I think for the moment we need to be stopping them dragging out.

As I said before, I know I'm as guilty as anyone of prolonging them.
It's hard to stop, the shootout was going great, and we had testers, most notably the introduction of Mike, that were willing and happy to test more. I did say it was perfectly fine for the next shootout to open up because it was taking so long with the added round. I don't remember who hosted after me, but I believe they missed that, because they didn't start theirs for about 2 weeks after that iirc.

Anyway, the long and the short of it is, it was too long, and it wasn't fair to just add a second round to what was already a long shootout. Regardless of missing a post, or just wanting to wait until it was over, the next shootout would have started 2 weeks sooner, and, we would be 2 weeks ahead of where we are right now.

Agree. I picked tracks for the shootout with quick testing in mind. One track will have lap times under 1:20 and the other under 2:10. Five laps on each track should be around 30 minutes of testing per car. Keeping test lists at 10 or under means a 5 hour testing time commitment over a two weekend period. If people want to test more groups, fine.

If I only get say 15 tuners/testers signed up, then it will be two groups of eight/seven. That'll even be shorter. The key will be whether my scoring system works with just one round. I WILL NOT be adding a second round so the scoring test, which I believe will work, is what it is.

Well, I do believe with a 5 hour window you'll fill at least 10-15 spots for this first time.
If you/we/anyone can make the window of driving 2-3 hours to test, it will work better as time goes on. Testing is not something anyone is going to want to do for every shootout. I guarantee it.

Still anxious to see this scoring system, it would be awesome to have a definitive system that doesn't require testers to test every car or have a second round.👍

 

[Ronald6]

So, what is the final decision on the schedule?
Should I post a one week warning to remind tuners to post their setups?
Or
Should I post a change on the dates for the Shootout?

I'm trying not to go against the grain on this but the clock is ticking. Can we all come to a consensus on this issue today?

 

[DigitalBaka]

Sorry guys, lots to go through with all these events going on lately.

I would consider that the Fireblade shootout is already going since folks have signed up to tune and the deadline is coming up quickly. I think we can let this go as is and work with it. There is also the classic comp to consider.

Hami has already mentioned he will be ready to go on August 1st and he is next in line by my reading. We'll have Nomis' 60404060 ( ) after that and we can work on what's after.....well, after.

I think to get us transitioned into the schedule we can stick with the longer length of events and I will schedule the next event to start after testing has started on the previous. That way we can get the folks that have been waiting up and going without getting things too out of whack from what is expected. Once the pace picks up I think things will smooth out.

So here is what I am looking at now:

7/27 - Nurburgring Testing End
7/29 - Fireblade Tuning End
8/1 - Street/Rally Tuning Start
8/5 - Fireblade Rd1 (?) Testing End, Classics Tuning End
8/12 - Street/Rally Tuning End, Classics Testing End
8/17 (?) - 60404060 Tuning Start
8/26 - Street/Rally Testing End, 60404060 Tuning End
9/5 - 60404060 Testing End

That assumes a 10/10 schedule for Nomis, which of course I am up for tweaking. The next would start between 8/28-9/1. IMO I would like for Nomis to start any time between 8/14-8/19. That gives a few days break between tuning time and gets tuners started off on the next event so they aren't sitting idle while testing is going on. Also, any tuners that don't want to keep up a furious pace will have the option of waiting it out, but not for super long while they wait for an event to finish.

Again, not a final schedule but about as good as I think we can get. August is going to be a little crowded no matter how we do it with everything that popped up. We got a little unorganized but I don't really want to delay events any further if we can avoid it.

Does this work? Any thoughts? Nomis, does this work out for you? Let me know how many days you were thinking of going for yours. We don't need to jump down to 10/10 but if you think it will work we can give it a try.

If this works out, Ronald, post/PM your tuners a reminder so we don't get backed up from the start. Hami, you are on deck and I'm sure you're already working up your post details for the 1st. Nomis, you're in the hole; let me know how long you are planning to run and we'll work from there. 👍

EDIT: Adding this tentative schedule into the calendar in the OP...will change as needed.

 

[CSLACR]

Sorry guys, lots to go through with all these events going on lately.

I would consider that the Fireblade shootout is already going since folks have signed up to tune and the deadline is coming up quickly. I think we can let this go as is and work with it. There is also the classic comp to consider.

Hami has already mentioned he will be ready to go on August 1st and he is next in line by my reading. We'll have Nomis' 60404060 ( ) after that and we can work on what's after.....well, after.

I think to get us transitioned into the schedule we can stick with the longer length of events and I will schedule the next event to start after testing has started on the previous. That way we can get the folks that have been waiting up and going without getting things too out of whack from what is expected. Once the pace picks up I think things will smooth out.

So here is what I am looking at now:

7/27 - Nurburgring Testing End
7/29 - Fireblade Tuning End
8/1 - Street/Rally Tuning Start
8/5 - Fireblade Rd1 (?) Testing End, Classics Tuning End
8/12 - Street/Rally Tuning End, Classics Testing End
8/17 (?) - 60404060 Tuning Start
8/26 - Street/Rally Testing End, 60404060 Tuning End
9/5 - 60404060 Testing End

That assumes a 10/10 schedule for Nomis, which of course I am up for tweaking. The next would start between 8/28-9/1. IMO I would like for Nomis to start any time between 8/14-8/19. That gives a few days break between tuning time and gets tuners started off on the next event so they aren't sitting idle while testing is going on. Also, any tuners that don't want to keep up a furious pace will have the option of waiting it out, but not for super long while they wait for an event to finish.

Again, not a final schedule but about as good as I think we can get. August is going to be a little crowded no matter how we do it with everything that popped up. We got a little unorganized but I don't really want to delay events any further if we can avoid it.

Does this work? Any thoughts? Nomis, does this work out for you? Let me know how many days you were thinking of going for yours. We don't need to jump down to 10/10 but if you think it will work we can give it a try.

If this works out, Ronald, post/PM your tuners a reminder so we don't get backed up from the start. Hami, you are on deck and I'm sure you're already working up your post details for the 1st. Nomis, you're in the hole; let me know how long you are planning to run and we'll work from there. 👍

EDIT: Adding this tentative schedule into the calendar in the OP...will change as needed.

Looks excellent.👍
Once it's fully caught up a format like this should keep us all involved in as many shootouts as we wish, or as few.

 

[trackripper123]

Great job DB, that makes things a lot easier

 

[Ronald6]

👍 👍 DiBa

 

[krenkme]

Looks very good DB

 

[NEWDRIVER2]

Good job DB :-)

 

[Motor City Hami]

What are the group's thoughts on prizing?

And photo competitions?

 

[DigitalBaka]

I am all for giving out as many prizes as can realistically be handed out. We ask that folks put in time and effort to tune and test so it seems fair that we give something in return whether it is remote race use, tickets, paint, etc. Yes, all fairly easy to come by for most but for me it is the principal. Prizes for participating, placement, lap records fast and slow all sound good to me.

As for photo competitions, we have had a couple and I think they were well received generally. Obviously some folks take better photos than others which is why we asked folks to judge based on the car and not the picture in the past to be fair in that respect. I for one enjoy photo comps and would nor object to seeing more.

 

[nomis3613]

Great work, DigitalBaka. Just a few questions please:

That assumes a 10/10 schedule for Nomis, which of course I am up for tweaking.

Do you mean 10 days tuning and 10 testing (if so, I'm happy to use that)- or something else?

The next would start between 8/28-9/1. IMO I would like for Nomis to start any time between 8/14-8/19.

Yep, those dates are good for me. The sooner the better!

Does this work? Any thoughts? Nomis, does this work out for you? Let me know how many days you were thinking of going for yours. We don't need to jump down to 10/10 but if you think it will work we can give it a try.

That's fine, it's not much shorter than I'd planned anyway.

Buuuuut...if mine needs to have a final round, can I please have an extra 5 days for this (it'll just be a quick testing round for some of the existing testers without re-tuning)? I am happy for the next shootout to overlap with these 5 days of final round.

 

[krenkme]

What are the group's thoughts on prizing?

And photo competitions?

On page 54 post 1064, I offered my services for prizes. A specialized prize (a special tune), I think makes prizes a little better IMO.

I liked the photo polls we had in past shootouts, and think it's a good idea 👍

 

[CSLACR]

What are the group's thoughts on prizing?

And photo competitions?

Prizes are fun, I don't think there's a need to go overboard though. Probably reward the testers more than tuners.

Photo comps, while shaking things up nicely, really don't have squat to do with tuning. I know some people enjoyed it last time, but to me, we have a photo mode forum, and this is not it.
Plus it's 100% subjective, to personal opinion and requesting votes.

Of course a side photo portion of the shootout that doesn't affect the final results I don't see an issue with.

Buuuuut...if mine needs to have a final round, can I please have an extra 5 days for this (it'll just be a quick testing round for some of the existing testers without re-tuning)? I am happy for the next shootout to overlap with these 5 days of final round.

That's the purpose of the overlaps. It shouldn't be an issue at all. 👍 The next shootout will already be going anyway.

 

[Motor City Hami]

My thoughts on prizing:
- With the money that can be made now in seasonals, is winning any tradeable premium car that much of an incentive any more? I like Krenkme's idea of giving away tuned cars, but if we are asking tuners to test, most tuners like their own tunes best. Yes, there are some cars that I will probably never tune. Krenkme's Amemiya RX7 or any Roj built Scooby just cannot be improved upon. For most other cars, I like my tune better.
- I don't like the prize for the slowest tester. I won it last time on a track that I'm not great at. It made me not want to test anymore.
- I agree, bigger prizes for testing than for tuning, but what prize? I have been debating with myself about real world prizes for three testers. Something like Amazon.com gift cards or something. But, do we want to go there. Plus, how do you score it - with a poll of all the tuners - maybe the top three with the best feedback?

 

[CSLACR]

Good thoughts, but I only have an answer for one question.

You do not want to go there. I mean, if you don't mind spending money, it might work, but who wants to front real money while the rest of us reap the same benefits without?

 

[DigitalBaka]

Great work, DigitalBaka. Just a few questions please:

Do you mean 10 days tuning and 10 testing (if so, I'm happy to use that)- or something else?


Yep, those dates are good for me. The sooner the better!


That's fine, it's not much shorter than I'd planned anyway.

Buuuuut...if mine needs to have a final round, can I please have an extra 5 days for this (it'll just be a quick testing round for some of the existing testers without re-tuning)? I am happy for the next shootout to overlap with these 5 days of final round.

Yep, 10 days tuning and 10 testing. Should be enough for most folks; gives time without drawing it out. If you (or anyone else) go a second round we'll let it take it's however many days without changing up the schedule. Round twos should generally take just a week or less and since those will be a narrower field (usually) I don't think we'll need to make a big push back with other events to make it work. We can adjust as necessary if it is a problem.

Of course a side photo portion of the shootout that doesn't affect the final results I don't see an issue with.

I'd recommend this. 👍 As the one who started the photo comp in shootouts it sounds like a nice idea but it can really muck up the scoring and results. Definitely suggest to just keep it as a side event to the times and/or driver's choice suchness.

Good thoughts, but I only have an answer for one question.

You do not want to go there. I mean, if you don't mind spending money, it might work, but who wants to front real money while the rest of us reap the same benefits without?

Agreed. Not sure we want to bring anything monetary into the mix. The draw might work to get people involved but then where do you draw the line and how do you determine who pays what and all that. Could get to be a headache.

Although a thought occurs, how about a premium GTP membership? I'm sure we'd have to check with Jordan and the mods but maybe we could do that for one or two events. One for tune winner and fastest driver or best feedback as voted by the tuners.

 

[VTiRoj]

Although a thought occurs, how about a premium GTP membership? I'm sure we'd have to check with Jordan and the mods but maybe we could do that for one or two events. One for tune winner and fastest driver or best feedback as voted by the tuners.

Jordan usually has no issues with GTP Premium giveaways, since there's already a way to give people Premium without any admin/mod intervention.

 

[CSLACR]

Maybe he meant like sponsorship?

IDK, but I think it'd probably be best to leave it at a single prize for the best feedback.
Tuners will tune without prizes.

 

[Ronald6]

I like the idea of a premium membership.
Also how about DLC? Tracks (Spa, Motogi) and cars?

 

[CSLACR]

I like the idea of a premium membership.
Also how about DLC? Tracks (Spa, Motogi) and cars?

All you could do that I'm aware of is buy someone a PSN card.

I think the short and simple of this topic is answered like this: If you want to spend real money on some prizes for tuners or testers, you're free to.

I'd probably be willing to spend about $10 for a tester that puts in the most effort in my opinion for my next shootout. Hell, that's probably what I'll do.

 

[dr_slump]

All you could do that I'm aware of is buy someone a PSN card.

I think the short and simple of this topic is answered like this: If you want to spend real money on some prizes for tuners or testers, you're free to.

I'd probably be willing to spend about $10 for a tester that puts in the most effort in my opinion for my next shootout. Hell, that's probably what I'll do.

What if he's from another country? Not every country uses USD.

 

[CSLACR]

What if he's from another country? Not every country uses USD.

So I should translate how much I might be willing to spend into multiple forms of currency so everyone knows exactly how much I'd be willing to spend?

Plus the price of PSN cards doesn't change according to currency. It changes based much more on where you live than what your currency is worth.
Just ask the Aussies.

 

[Motor City Hami]

I was thinking $20 USD Amazon.com or PSN gift card for first, $15 for 2nd and $10 for 3rd for the testers who provided the best feedback. That's $45 of my own money that I was willing to put up so I wasn't all that concerned about exchange rates.