FITT Old Vs. New Hatchback Challenge

[Otaliema]

The BRZ tune did take a while but it was definitely worth the time and effort put into it.

Agreed it works +/- 50 PP and +/- two tire levels and on every track it has been thrown at so far.

 

[fordracer]

Same here, I can get a car figured out within about 2hrs (how it wants to be driven and how it responds to changes) but I'll spend a good 8 or so hours after that fiddling with it and trying out different ideas. I'll keep working on it until every change I make results in loss, that's when you know its ready

My plan of attack has been very simular. Thanks for the input.
Once again, I thank you all for the feedback and input.

 

[Motor City Hami]

I will not have nearly as much time for tuning as all of you have mentioned. I'll slap a basic tune on all of the cars and take them for a few laps each, like three. Then I'll pick the pair and probably only have an hour or so each. You know, kids, wife, work, SCCA racing season, etc.

 

[DaBomm4]

Here are my tunes for the challenge, Focus ST170 '03 and Focus ST '13.

Edit: Forgot to add this for all the testers. Complete and ok to test.

 

[krenkme]

I have about 39min and 26sec on my cars. Being old and responsible sucks!

 

[CSLACR]

Interesting all the Honda's scored poorly in the "best looking" contest.
Curious why the '08 Civic was abandoned? @Motor City Hami ? (sorry if it's been done asked)

 

[DaBomm4]

Interesting all the Honda's scored poorly in the "best looking" contest.
Curious why the '08 Civic was abandoned? @Motor City Hami ? (sorry if it's been done asked)

My best guess is because it is the sedan version and not a hatchback version? The only exception to the rule is the Life Step/Odyssey Vans. I didn't vote for a Honda pair because of the color choice, but I do like the CR-X/CR-Z pair that I also tuned though.

 

[Bowtie-muscle]

So far I have 0 secs in.......

Maybe I can start over the weekend, not sure.

 

[shaunm80]

Here are my two entries for the competition.

Testers, enjoy and I look forward to your feedback.

Complete - ok to test. - If the Mini Cooper S '11 does not match stated figures, let me know as the car has been used in a previous event and has miles on the engine. No changes will be made to the tune itself, just any power adjustments to make it right should it need it.

Spec - Old Hatchback

Car used - Mini Cooper 1.3i '98

Link here

FITT Old & New Hatchback Tuner Challenge

Spec - New Hatchback

Car used - Mini Cooper S '11

Link here

If you think you've given up smoking, think again. The new car will have you thinking your a chain smoker at times.

 

[Motor City Hami]

Interesting all the Honda's scored poorly in the "best looking" contest.
Curious why the '08 Civic was abandoned? @Motor City Hami ? (sorry if it's been done asked)

Two reasons. First is that the 2008 has been a bit of an over dog in the game. Second was that I was lookong for the closest thing that the older cars influenced and that would have been the newest hatchback.

 

[coryclifford]

I'm trying to figure out how come some 400s get Sport Hard tires. Any logic behind this decision that I'm not understanding?

 

[fordracer]

I drove all of the old cars tonight and also received some test data from a few others. Thank you for sharing. I do think that the Ford Focus was a little bit of an overdog, but still worth keeping in the competition. The pre-1980's cars needed some drastic help. When I added Sport Hard tires to them, they felt more like the 90's and 2000's cars. I also made some PP adjustments to even things out a bit. When altering PP levels, it will never be totally equal as each of us have differing driving styles and differing tuning methods. My hope is that these new settings create a more diverse field. The Focus should still be competitive, but now it is a more difficult choice to walk away from some of the others.

Fiat 500 F '65 - Sport Hard Tires 450 PP
Ford Focus ST170 '03 - Comfort Soft Tires 400 PP
Honda Civic 1500 3 door 25i '83 - Comfort Soft Tires 415 PP
Honda CRX SiR '90 - Comfort Soft Tires 410 PP
Mini Cooper 1.3i '98 - Sport Hard Tires 425 PP
Peugeot 206 S16 '99 - Comfort Soft Tires 410 PP
VW Golf I Gti '76 - Sport Hard Tires 385 PP
Honda Life Step Van '72 - Sport Soft Tires 421 PP and Oil Change

There will be no changes to the newer cars at 450 PP. They are all pretty close with one possible overdog that is paired with one of the more difficult to tune older cars.

I will update the OP with these new regulations and extend the tuner deadline by a few days. Thanks for everyone's input and patience.

This was Hami's reasoning. Which I like.

 

[coryclifford]

I've read that. Few times. But because (with SH tires) they felt more like the 90's and 2000's cars? Yeah, well they aren't. They're older cars. Doesn't mean they don't work as well. But now (in my opinion) they have a grip advantage and barely if at all give up a power advantage. 400 to 425 is a big jump, and it gets better tires?

My case in point: Mini on SH is now a serious go kart that rarely/barely needs to slow down, and still makes good power to pull. Tires barely make a peep.

Sorry, little rant.

I look forward to everyones tunes and driving them. 👍

 

[OdeFinn]

I look forward to everyones tunes and driving them. 👍

I'll provide pair with CS tires to you

 

[coryclifford]

Them tapping on their teeth made me smile, and tap on my teeth.

Oh, and OdeFinn, that just means you're not choosing a car pair with SH tires then.

 

[CSLACR]

I've read that. Few times. But because (with SH tires) they felt more like the 90's and 2000's cars? Yeah, well they aren't. They're older cars. Doesn't mean they don't work as well. But now (in my opinion) they have a grip advantage and barely if at all give up a power advantage. 400 to 425 is a big jump, and it gets better tires?

My case in point: Mini on SH is now a serious go kart that rarely/barely needs to slow down, and still makes good power to pull. Tires barely make a peep.

Sorry, little rant.

I look forward to everyones tunes and driving them. 👍

I think the idea, is that the big Mini can't keep up with, for example, an '04 Civic type R, so the little Mini needs to be quicker than the CRX '90.
I clipped 54's in the Mini, 56's in the Peugeot 106.

 

[DolHaus]

Its all about balance, if you drive all the pairs and put the cumulative times together then it makes a lot more sense 👍

 

[coryclifford]

Ive done all the cars. I understand the, balance them out thing. But why do that? In the perfect scenario based on that, all cars would be exactly the same, thus negating the whole point.

Like going in a Shuffle race but because the Mustang can't turn we give it better tires. But now it also brakes better and accelerates better.

 

[DolHaus]

What do you mean why do that? The changes are to attempt to balance the cars performance and give them an equal chance of taking the prize

 

[coryclifford]

We could all be in the same cars then?

 

[DolHaus]

We could but where would be the fun in that?

 

[coryclifford]

That's what I'm saying. Why make them equals?

 

[DolHaus]

So people can choose and tune a car they like and stand a chance of winning and so the testers don't end up driving the same car over and over again

 

[fordracer]

That's what I'm saying. Why make them equals?

What if you look at it from the view point of using new tech. on older cars? That is how I am viewing the whole challenge.
And a real world interest I have, I might add.

 

[coryclifford]

Alright. Everybody wins.

I have a couple friends here driving cars, for more input. 👍

 

[shaunm80]

There was a slight issue with some of my numbers in my old mini tune which one nice tester pointed out to me. It has been rectified now and the tune has been altered with the correct figures.

 

[Otaliema]

I've read that. Few times. But because (with SH tires) they felt more like the 90's and 2000's cars? Yeah, well they aren't. They're older cars. Doesn't mean they don't work as well. But now (in my opinion) they have a grip advantage and barely if at all give up a power advantage. 400 to 425 is a big jump, and it gets better tires?

My case in point: Mini on SH is now a serious go kart that rarely/barely needs to slow down, and still makes good power to pull. Tires barely make a peep.

Sorry, little rant.

I look forward to everyones tunes and driving them. 👍

I'm understand where you are coming from but in the past and even in the seasonals it's a one car show, @Motor City Hami did this to allow us to pick the cars we want to tune and still have a really good chance at winning and also making a competitive car, we (I) would rather see the entire field spread by less then a second and not one car spread by a second and everyone else 3/6 seconds back.

Edit;corrected auto incorrect errors

 

[coryclifford]

Please don't don't my words as complaints, I'm just trying to understand. But really, I don't get the point. Are we not looking for the best pair?

Anyways, as a signed up driver, trying the couple tunes so far, no one's rear axle is loose. Interesting.

Here's my real life race car.

👍

 

[DaBomm4]

Anyways, as a signed up driver, trying the couple tunes so far, no one's rear axle is loose. Interesting.

So, I might actually have an extreme amount of fun in a fwd car once I get to your pair?

 

[coryclifford]

So, I might actually have an extreme amount of fun in a fwd car once I get to your pair?

I can't get them loose enough with the tires we're given. I'm trying, but it's not happening.

Friend said, tell em how the real car is set up. I said okay.

I run 1.5" wider tires on the front, and they're harder than the rear. Imagine 9.5" wide RM on front, and 8" wide RS on back. Cause they are just like that. 500 lb front spring with no sway bar, 450 lb rear spring with a 22mm bar. Car weighs 1695 pounds full wet. Idea for the skinny softer rears is to get some heat for ultimate grip. But it's mostly loose outta control until things settle in.

Cheers guys. 👍