FM Vs GT - Discussion Thread (read the first post before you post)

[tfujiwara]

With the proper replay camera views in Forza(TGTT). It wins automaticly.(or not?)

 

[Jamezinho]

GT5's TGTT is too saturated.

 

[Evian]

Top Gear's Track looks so simple in GT5, it's many similar to the same track in Rfactor, and this isn't good.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

GEEZ the sounds on that old take of rFactor ^ both GT and FM could learn a big lesson. The exterior and interior sounds are awesome, makes me want to go race.

 

[Lain]

Stop reaching...

What we (as in the staff) would like you to do is engage in a discussion, rather than the internet version of a 'willy waving contest'.

Simply posting pictures with a throw away comment certainly does not further discussion.

Why do you think they look better? What part of them looks better? What part of them looks worse? Why do you think this is? What does it mean to you in the context of the game? How does it help the game?

All of the above questions, had you made comment on them would have validated posting the pictures.

The exact same point applies to yaywalter.



Scaff

Oh right. With so many serious fanboys out there, I guess nobody could tell that I was just making a silly little joke.

Wait...

I lol'd a little.

One person could. Yay.

Ahem, anyways...

Graphically, FM4 will be a bit better than GT5 during gameplay, but it certainly won't be by a landslide. It'll mostly just be in areas GT5 struggles with like framerate/tearing and jagged shadows. And who knows just how much more Polyphony will be able to get out of the PS3 with Spec 2?

Physics-wise, I've always been more of a fan of the GT feel. But then, I've never played Forza with a wheel. Good thing I pre-ordered the Fanatec CSR wheel, so I'll be able to compare the physics of both of them on the same wheel.

One thing I love about Forza though is it's very customizable difficulty settings, and the fact that you're rewarded for going with more difficult options.

 

[GT6mebe]

About the realism of the lap times, you have to bear in mind that the times established on the show are made from a standing start, not a rolling one. The cones can be moved if hit on Forza, and about the lightning you shouldn't judge from an off-screen video. Here you have a direct feed video:

The weather conditions in the video you posted are clearly different to the one I was referring to. I was talking about the road reflection when it is sunny unless Turn 10 have changed the weather on the track (because Forza does not have dynamic weather).

 

[vandaliser]

oh i love this thread. so much emotion and drama

A very sad day but that is the first person to be added to my ignore list on GTP 👎

who gives a ****....

No, the only one missing any significant points is you. You made a point of mentioning that you criticized what other people were criticizing, did you not?

i don't even know what you're talking about now.

The amount of times which you did it is irrelevant because it's still hearsay. And the former statement about you not criticizing Forza's gameplay is thus rendered irrelevant since you criticized something to do with gameplay.

like i said countless times. I have never criticised forza's gameplay coz i have never played the game. But i did criticise it for it's boring tarmac sunny skies syndrome, it's cartoony looking cars, **** cockpits and car models that were designed by a sweat factory in vietnam.

As for the livery editor bit, you can tell yourself whatever you want.

indeed. joke of a feature. pointless really. as useful to a sim as a bunch of tissues

I don't recall Turn 10 ever "bitching" about them not being able to retain the sub license to use Porsche content. As for TG bit, provide proof or you'll be reported. Simple as.

oooh haven't you heard the latest news? MR greenwalt was apologising to his fans about the porsche license and the white knight was proclaiming from the top of his lungs on how they would never do such a thing because they are in this together i,e the racing industry Someone should tell him about top gear **** they pulled in on PD. proof? really? do you need proof of water being colourless now? damn what i am dealing with here?

You wanna play "give me proof or suffer" I can play the same game.

You can't win this game

Wow, I'd hate to see what you think of an even more pointless addition to GT, ability to change suits and helmets on your driver. Or do you want to explain how that's somehow a useful addition, even more useful than a livery editor?

indeed. it's all useless to me. I can't for the life of me see why PD even bothered wasting time on it.

I suppose you speak the truth. Not every developer can add such genre-changing functionality as horn customization and B-Spec Driver Dress Up.

such sarcasm is wasted on me. I don't give two hoots about such superficial things. If you are expecting me to praise such features in GT then you've got another thing coming.

You have no idea how burden of proof actually works, do you?

yes i do. Unfortunately someone here last night could prove he played GT at all. And the poor mods and people felt so bad for him they decided to derail everything in an act of sympathy It was amusing...


NO WAY. It can't be:
...



Bravo. Just... holy crap, congratulations. This is literally the most blatant, unbelievably stupid piece of hypocrisy I think I have ever seen; and this is the second time this week I have laughed so hard that I was literally in danger of passing out. You have to have the biggest balls on this entire forum to do something this audacious after the stunt you pulled a couple of hours ago.

Don't die on me brother. You have provided me with countless humour too.

vandaliser and a few others have been smoking something, not sure if I want to try it or not. It's probably great, as long as you don't get onto the internet after smoking it.

Still talking after what happened? Listen MR bees. If i were you i would have the shame and decency to terminate my account after last night. No amount of mod rescue or post deletion will alter the fact that you were exposed last night.

Wow, talk about putting words in people's mouths.

And I find it very interesting that it seems perfectly fine to discuss sales for other games, but not Gran Turismo? Biased much?

How did my post have nothing to do with the subject being discussed?

Never mind, Forza fanz, have fun <removed by mod>.

Forza fans always get itchy when sales are mentioned because it just shatters their sweet dreams and myths of both series being comparable. They are not and will not be in this generation. Forza is just some cheap ass imitation of GT.



And like every imitation, sales will always pale to the original

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

The weather conditions in the video you posted are clearly different to the one I was referring to. I was talking about the road reflection when it is sunny unless Turn 10 have changed the weather on the track (because Forza does not have dynamic weather).

That is true it seems, but I've only seen codemasters really use dynamic weather, PD needs to work on their weather system. I was surprised it hadn't really improved from GT4.

 

[I'm Motarded]

My Top Ten virtual racing gaming decision factors:

1) Must excel graphically in representing a driving or racing experience.

2) Must provide sufficient RL racing environments - real tracks.

3) Must provide a good selection of road and racing vehicles.

4) Must excel at replicating the sound or the IRL cars.

5) Must excel at providing the driving "feel" though a gaming controller.

6) Must provide a challenging AI for offline competition.

7) Must provide a mechanism or features to customize and personalize our virtual cars.

8) Must graphically depict vehicle damage as best as possible.

9) Must be as convincing as possible in replicating IRL consequences of contacting barriers and other cars.

10) Must offer a way to compare or measure results with other gamers.

11) Must offer a cockpit racing view.

I will agree with most of this points of interest in this post, but think you have missed one major.

12) Pit stops and strategy
It's such a shame this has been over looked in the recent games Forza, it's huge for the serious sim'ers. This is something GT is doing very well IMO.

 

[Evian]

Forza fans always get itchy when sales are mentioned because it just shatters their sweet dreams and myths of both series being comparable. They are not and will not be in this generation. Forza is just some cheap ass imitation of GT.

What an stupid argument, how many subscribers have iRacing? certainly less than half than half than half than half that the number of copies sold of GT5

Is a bad game? Are you crazy?


How many Race Pro copies sold Atari ? Bad Game also ?


Shut up please ....

 

[Lain]

Forza fans always get itchy when sales are mentioned because it just shatters their sweet dreams and myths of both series being comparable. They are not and will not be in this generation. Forza is just some cheap ass imitation of GT.

Sure it's not as iconic of a brand as Gran Turismo and thus doesn't sell boatloads like GT does, but who gives a damn about sales other than the people producing and selling the product? Only ignorant fanboys of either Forza or Gran Turismo, that's who.

And it may essentially be the same type of game as Gran Turismo, but you can't write it off as a cheap imitation that easily. The first Forza might've been pretty rough around the edges, and Forza 2 wasn't really much different. But starting with Forza 3, the quality of Forza has been dramatically raised. And Turn 10 seems to be making that into a trend with Forza 4. 👍

 

[zr1chris]

GEEZ the sounds on that old take of rFactor ^ both GT and FM could learn a big lesson. The exterior and interior sounds are awesome, makes me want to go race.

IMO the turbo is way overdone in that video. The only turbo's I hear that are that loud are cars with like 1000HP.

 

[Tornado]

oh i love this thread. so much emotion and drama




who gives a ****....



You can't win this game



indeed. it's all useless to me. I can't for the life of me see why PD even bothered wasting time on it.



Don't die on me brother. You have provided me with countless humour too.




Still talking after what happened? Listen MR bees. If i were you i would have the shame and decency to terminate my account after last night. No amount of mod rescue or post deletion will alter the fact that you were exposed last night.




Forza fans always get itchy when sales are mentioned because it just shatters their sweet dreams and myths of both series being comparable. They are not and will not be in this generation. Forza is just some cheap ass imitation of GT.



And like every imitation, sales will always pale to the original

I'm formally invoking Poe's Law right now. There is no way that you can be this obstinate and, quite frankly, moronic, on accident.


So congratulations, vandaliser. You successfully trolled us all. Feel free to waste everyone's time in some other thread from now on.

 

[Terronium-12]

You can't win this game

Funny how now you're pretending you never criticized gameplay, when you yourself said you've mentioned the steering buffer once or twice. Which, once again, has to do specifically with gameplay.

Forza fans always get itchy when sales are mentioned because it just shatters their sweet dreams and myths of both series being comparable. They are not and will not be in this generation. Forza is just some cheap ass imitation of GT.

And you'd know that because you played it, right? Again, sales for any game are irrelevant as they serve no other purpose than to assume what's sold more is better.

Which is exactly what you're implying.

And like every imitation, sales will always pale to the original

And here. How far up your ass is your head that you think the amount a game has sold means it's a better game?

By that logic, Mario Kart Wii spanks every GT release to date, having sold more than twice the amount of games GT has ever sold with the exception of 3.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

IMO the turbo is way overdone in that video. The only turbo's I hear that are that loud are cars with like 1000HP.

You do have a point, I did like the sound of the short shifter though, but now that I've listened to the Turbo again it does sound like it came out of F&F

 

[Scaff]

vandaliser is now on a two day holiday and I would ask all that this thread returns to a state in which topics are discussed, not members attacked.


Scaff

 

[Hotspitta]

What do you guys think about the Top Gear Test Tracks on both games.




I think both games fail in the realism (in lap times) of the top gear test track and this ultimately takes out some of the fun. However, I think GT's test track has the more realistic lighting. One thing extremely disappointing about Forza's track is the immovable tyres and cones!!!!! As if cones were not enough in GT5. However Forza one has no invisible walls(to an extent) and has the drag strip.
Personally I think Gt's one is better cuz of the lighting, but mainly cuz it at least does not have tires all over the circuit.

Haha you must be joking have you seen the trees in the gt one?

 

[Evian]

Rfactor's tress .....

Madrid looks very nice in GT5, Top Gear's track looks simple ....

 

[zr1chris]

You do have a point, I did like the sound of the short shifter though, but now that I've listened to the Turbo again it does sound like it came out of F&F

Agreed and the turbo itself does sound good, it's just much to loud.

 

[Da-Bomber]

Oh right. With so many serious fanboys out there, I guess nobody could tell that I was just making a silly little joke.

Wait...



One person could. Yay.

Ahem, anyways...

Graphically, FM4 will be a bit better than GT5 during gameplay, but it certainly won't be by a landslide. It'll mostly just be in areas GT5 struggles with like framerate/tearing and jagged shadows. And who knows just how much more Polyphony will be able to get out of the PS3 with Spec 2?

Hoping for a graphical update in any form for in-game is pointless.

 

[Lain]

Hoping for a graphical update in any form for in-game is pointless.

Pointless why? Developers figure out ways to get more out of hardware all the time, hence why Forza 4 looks better than Forza 3 despite running on the very same hardware.

 

[Da-Bomber]

But a game update can't do that.

 

[Lain]

But a game update can't do that.

Prologue has shown us otherwise. If they can change the rendering of dust and smoke with an update, they can change the rendering of anything. 👍

 

[Tornado]

But a game update can't do that.

PD have already done that with game updates.


There was a huge improvement to the lighting engine a couple of patches ago (1.08?).

 

[Daverytimes]

That is true it seems, but I've only seen codemasters really use dynamic weather, PD needs to work on their weather system. I was surprised it hadn't really improved from GT4.

Are you being serious?

 

[Lain]

Are you being serious?

I hope not, considering that GT4 didn't have a weather system.

 

[BusierDonkey]

Your kidding me right look heres a real life image in the same conditions (closest I could find)....

GIANT PICTURE WAS HERE

Forza's track is a joke (lighting wise)...it looks like there has been an oil spill or the track is wet when its not supposed to be. And dont tell me its cuz its off screen.

I promised myself i would not enter into the this vs that debate, but this post just didn't sit right with me.

I'm trying to imagine a scenario where you mistakenly watched a video of the wrong game, or perhaps haven't seen any of the videos or images whatsoever. To say the lighting on the track is "a joke" indicates you're seeing something I doubt anyone else is. Road glare is present in GT5, Shift, Forza, RacePro, PGR, iRacing, F1, etc... It's also quite common in real life, especially on an asphalt surface with a high tar content like that found on a runway, low/medium use roads, or a race track. A higher tar content is used on runways because it resists cracking in seasonal climates, it's used on low use roads for the same reason, and it's used on tracks for the better grip it provides, a high gravel content could have adverse effects when driven over at high speeds, as your contact patch is diminished with the rougher surface.

The track itself is remarkably similar in both games, differing mainly in the small details, and how the tracks are used.

GT5's track is really well done, but lacks many details of the surrounding areas (example, planes are there but the engines are octagonal, fuel trucks are present but hoses and gear is not, tugs and luggage trucks are missing, the builings lining the track are not all there and the ones that are are not as detailed as in FM4 (which makes sense as you can't drive up to them), the treeline is frankly just aweful with all the paper trees, the track has invisible walls and it's use is very limited in the game.

FM4's version includes the minor details lacking in the GT5 version, allows you to drive anywhere on the airfield, and has two settings, sunny and overcast/fog. The fact that the replay cameras are properly done is just icing on the cake. The odd thing is, usually it's GT that has the camera angles done right, but somehow they didn't get one of them to match the show.

Behind the buildings

Overcast/Fog

Sunny

Old video from the track:


The FM4 track isn't perfect, but I haven't seen a better recreation of it so far, including the GT5 track. I'm saying that having seen the GT5 track in-game up close, and relying on compressed Youtube videos of FM4. Even in the crappy low quality video the track looks great, at 60fps I expect it will be even better.

The track in FM4 was so faithfully modeled, people recognised it from the first teaser shown for FM4 just by the horizon silhouette at the end of the runway in 1 second of video, which perfectly matched the real location. TGTT is one of the last things in FM4 that should be picked apart. T10 is putting the Top Gear license to very good use, an area where Polyphony really dropped the ball.

 

[Saidur_Ali]

Pointless why? Developers figure out ways to get more out of hardware all the time, hence why Forza 4 looks better than Forza 3 despite running on the very same hardware.

T10 have made compromises, in the demo the mirrors run at a lower frame rate.

 

[Lain]

T10 have made compromises, in the demo the mirrors run at a lower frame rate.

So I've heard. That's part of the process... taking shortcuts with areas that don't matter as much to improve areas that matter more.

30 Hz mirrors might look a little bit odd in a 60 Hz world, but it isn't going to hinder anyone's driving. And it's shortcuts like these that allow Turn 10 to implement things like image-based lighting.

Likewise, I wouldn't be surprised if certain minor graphical areas got worse in GT5 Spec 2 in order to make some more obvious things (like shadows and tearing) better.

 

[Saidur_Ali]

So I've heard. That's part of the process... taking shortcuts with areas that don't matter as much to improve areas that matter more.

30 Hz mirrors might look a little bit odd in a 60 Hz world, but it isn't going to hinder anyone's driving. And it's shortcuts like these that allow Turn 10 to implement things like image-based lighting.

Likewise, I wouldn't be surprised if certain minor graphical areas got worse in GT5 Spec 2 in order to make some more obvious things (like shadows and tearing) better.

I know. However I'm sure on this thread that if GT5 did that on the mirrors, people will be talking how it kills the immersion and destroys the racing while the same people will give Forza a pass on this . I'm so far not impressed with the physics, I was hoping they would fix the high traction issue I find in Forza 3 but they haven't addressed it much. I'm sure though that media outlets will be impressed including ISR though as you slide through a corner, more or less steering back and fourth. If you drive with a lot of steering input then the physics might be more lively but if you drive smooth, then you can drive full throttle quite easily. I think amar212 said it is due to the suspension modelling in Forza 3 that allows you power through corners with 100% throttle straight away.