FM Vs GT - Discussion Thread (read the first post before you post)

[Jamezinho]

Then why is there only a selected group of cars in that "Interactive Museum".




So we all come to the conclusion that Turn 10 are lazy, eh. If every car is on par and only 25 is represented in the Autovista mode that means Turn 10 couldn't do the rest in 2 years.

Because I would guess Turn 10 realise that modelling 500 cars to Autovista spec just isn't feasible, both in terms of time, cost and more importantly the technical capabilities/limitations of the 360.

Which is something PD found out.

 

[HBK]

The way some GT fans defend "their" game actually makes me feel ashamed of enjoying GT5.

Seriously.

On a side note, the latest GTTV show is somewhat lame, in a kinda similar way. No PD, you don't need to stealthily remind us how much your game is so realistic that real drivers train with it, neither how much you are so into cars that you sponsor lots of car related events. What you would need, however, is to actually work on your, you know, your game.

 

[Vaxxtx]

Lol, well my case is rested.

Ok, glad I could be of help...I guess.

 

[Spagetti69]

So we all come to the conclusion that Turn 10 are lazy, eh. If every car is on par and only 25 is represented in the Autovista mode that means Turn 10 couldn't do the rest in 2 years.

I think you need to lower your expectations. If you were expecting 500 Autovista cars then I feel sorry.

How high are your expectations for Spec 2 out of curiosity?

 

[vandaliser]

Then your opinion is absolutely worthless to me.

Don't care

So basically you're trashing a game based off watching youtube vids?

In a nutshell pretty much yeah?

Yeah I get the difference, one man's comments are based off experience and the other dude sounds like an internet parrot.

In a nice high-pitched parrot voice:
"SQUAWK TRACKS ARE BAD, TRACKS ARE BAD"
"SQUAWK PREMIUM CARS, PREMIUM CARS"

he sure proved that experience LMAO.

Which would be, get this, hearsay. Regardless of it being true or not, you personally have no experience with it and are going with the "He said, she said" route.

Logical fallacy #1

missed the point as per usual.

You realize there are liveries on racing cars, right? And you also realize that one of the bullet points for inclusive features in GT5 was a livery editor, right? A feature they (PD) still want to include.

Logical fallacy #2


it's all about priorties. PD can add important stuff to the gameplay first rather than some superficial arts and craft **** into the game. If i wanted to colour my car like my 10 year old nephew i would have bought mod nation racers. Perhaps when there's nothing more to add to the series, may be then PD should add livery. But it's just a waste of time and man power at the moment. It's pointless and adds nothing of value to the game.



What has one to do with the other?

There's no point in Turn10 crying about EA's bitch move when they they have done the same to PD as well. Entire contents from Top gear were removed from the game because andy wilman and jezza swallowed MS cash.

Yet you liberally demanded someone give you their PSN ID just so you could verify their claims.

Logical fallacy #3

i demanded the PSN ID because the gentleman looked phoney to me from his very first post. And so far i have been proved right

 

[PzR Slim]

A very sad day but that is the first person to be added to my ignore list on GTP 👎

 

[Daverytimes]

Because I would guess Turn 10 realise that modelling 500 cars to Autovista spec just isn't feasible, both in terms of time, cost and more importantly the technical capabilities/limitations of the 360.

Which is something PD found out.

Ohh we make excuses for a developer that have FIVE companies working for them, a developer that boasts 400 employees, a developer that is carrying almost all assets from their previous game with major and minor tweaking here and there. So it's A-OK for turn 10 with all it's workforce to only model 25 cars (in 2 years) for high quality viewing but it's bad that a team of some 150 people modeled 200 cars (in 5 years) for high quality viewing. So if giving the same amount of time that PD had we will only have 62.5 cars for high quality viewing while if we gave PD the amount of Workforce that Turn 10 is boasting they would have churned out close to 600 cars (for Photo-travel) in the same time-frame.

I think you need to lower your expectations. If you were expecting 500 Autovista cars then I feel sorry.

How high are your expectations for Spec 2 out of curiosity?

The game looks amazing no doubt, but people that are defending their decision to include only 25 cars in such a large time-fame (Having in mind the amount of people involved in the project) are acting with their blindfolds tightly on. I expect nothing from Spec 2.0, i want to keep my expectations as low as it can be so that when it does come out i might appreciate it.

 

[Terronium-12]

i demanded the PSN ID because the gentleman looked phoney to me from his very first post. And so far i have been proved right

No, the only one missing any significant points is you. You made a point of mentioning that you criticized what other people were criticizing, did you not?

The amount of times which you did it is irrelevant because it's still hearsay. And the former statement about you not criticizing Forza's gameplay is thus rendered irrelevant since you criticized something to do with gameplay.

As for the livery editor bit, you can tell yourself whatever you want.

I don't recall Turn 10 ever "bitching" about them not being able to retain the sub license to use Porsche content. As for TG bit, provide proof or you'll be reported. Simple as.

You wanna play "give me proof or suffer" I can play the same game.

 

[zr1chris]

Out of 400-500 cars only 25 are available for autovista, so that means that the rest is not optimized for Autovista right? so then that means there are Cars that are highly detailed compared to others right? if that is so then every car being the same IN-Game does not mean that they are the same. Does that make sense? they are the same but they are not the same. Some are highly detailed compared to others because people will view them rather up-close with the autovista mode. If all had parity then all should be available in autovista, unless of-course Turn 10 are lazy as someone accused PD of being.

Wow, just wow.

T10 made the cars in each mode as highly detailed as possible for each particular mode. Autovista is just capable of having a higher level of detail because the car isn't moving. The cars only change in detail when they are actually being viewed in Autovista. Once that same car that was in Autovista gets put on the track it switches to the gameplay modeling exactly like the premium cars of GT5 from photomode to actual gameplay. If you still don't get it then I give up on you. You are either a. playing dumb on purpose b. too thick headed to see past what you want it to be c. don't want to admit how good FM4 really looks, or d. just aren't smart enough to figure it out.

Either way you keep grasping at straws in an attempt to say that FM4 also has standard and premium cars when that is totally and utterly false.

 

[Daverytimes]

Wow, just wow.

T10 made the cars in each mode as highly detailed as possible for each particular mode. Autovista is just capable of having a higher level of detail because the car isn't moving. The cars only change in detail when they are actually being viewed in Autovista. Once that same car that was in Autovista gets put on the track it switches to the gameplay modeling exactly like the premium cars of GT5 from photomode to actual gameplay. If you still don't get it then I give up on you. You are either a. playing dumb on purpose b. too thick headed to see past what you want it to be c. don't want to admit how good FM4 really looks, or d. just aren't smart enough to figure it out.

Either way you keep grasping at straws in an attempt to say that FM4 also has standard and premium cars when that is totally and utterly false.

Look at my posts above.

 

[Jamezinho]

Ohh we make excuses for a developer that have FIVE companies working for them, a developer that boasts 400 employees, a developer that is carrying almost all assets from their previous game with major and minor tweaking here and there. So it's A-OK for turn 10 with all it's workforce to only model 25 cars (in 2 years) for high quality viewing but it's bad that a team of some 150 people modeled 200 cars (in 5 years) for high quality viewing. So if giving the same amount of time that PD had we will only have 62.5 cars for high quality viewing while if we gave PD the amount of Workforce that Turn 10 is boasting they would have churned out close to 600 cars in the same time-frame.

No, I explained why all cars are not to Autovista standard on more than one occasion, which you repeatedly fail to comprehend. Do you seriously expect an Xbox360 to run with 16 Autovista quality models on track at the same time? The answer is no, obviously.

Autovista is a museum style feature, and the high quality models contained within were never, ever intended to be used on the track. It's just a feature which I'm sure MS pushed Turn 10 into doing so they could show off Kinect.

Also, you make it sound as if the in-game car models are bad in Forza 4. Evidence suggests they are very good, and if they are not up to GT5 premium standard then they are a very close second.

 

[430_Riviera]

it's all about priorties. PD can add important stuff to the gameplay first rather than some superficial arts and craft **** into the game. If i wanted to colour my car like my 10 year old nephew i would have bought mod nation racers. Perhaps when there's nothing more to add to the series, may be then PD should add livery. But it's just a waste of time and man power at the moment. It's pointless and adds nothing of value to the game.

Awesome. You see, because GT is all about snobby, elitest idiots flouncing about in driving gloves with upturned noses, sawing away at their imaginary steering wheels connected to fantasy cars, there is little community spirit involved with the game. You know I don't dislike GT5, needs a bit of work, but overall it's an interesting beast. Only problem with it is people like you, they make my skin crawl, the blind and the blinkered.

Forza has a massive on line contingent that requires a livery editor to grant those who use it individuality, and teams that use it an identity. You are totally correct, there is no need for a livery editor in GT5. However the reasons for that being the case are very, very sad.

So we all come to the conclusion that Turn 10 are lazy, eh. If every car is on par and only 25 is represented in the Autovista mode that means Turn 10 couldn't do the rest in 2 years.

I came to the conclusion that T10 wanted to put 25 cars in the game at Autovista level. If they'd wanted more, they simply would have outsourced more. Not really difficult to understand is it holmes? Autovista is a glance at the future, something which is just large enough to be of note, but not so big as to draw focus from the main game. Much like a lot of stuff being sacrificed for the 60fps performance, much of the hate that is loaded on Forza for not 'pushing the boundaries' so to speak, is levelled at conscious design decisions made by the T10 team. Autovista having 25 cars is one of them. The reason I think this about T10, but don't think it about PD is that Forza games are released for the most part finished, whereas the only GT game of recent times (understatement of the century) was not

Also, at this point would like to point out that Autovista and in game in Forza is not the same as standard and premium in GT5. For a start if it was, then GT5 would have 2000 cars. If you have to ask why this is, then do please be careful as you get up from your computer chair, there is a good chance you may injure yourself. I hope you've strapped your helmet on nice and tight.

 

[C_Raccoon23]

it's all about priorties. PD can add important stuff to the gameplay first rather than some superficial arts and craft **** into the game. If i wanted to colour my car like my 10 year old nephew i would have bought mod nation racers. Perhaps when there's nothing more to add to the series, may be then PD should add livery. But it's just a waste of time and man power at the moment. It's pointless and adds nothing of value to the game.

Wow, I'd hate to see what you think of an even more pointless addition to GT, ability to change suits and helmets on your driver. Or do you want to explain how that's somehow a useful addition, even more useful than a livery editor?

 

[Daverytimes]

No, I explained why all cars are not to Autovista standard on more than one occasion, which you repeatedly fail to comprehend. Do you seriously expect an Xbox360 to run with 16 Autovista quality models on track at the same time? The answer is no, obviously.

Autovista is a museum style feature, and the high quality models contained within were never, ever intended to be used on the track. It's just a feature which I'm sure MS pushed Turn 10 into doing so they could show off Kinect.

Also, you make it sound as if the in-game car models are bad in Forza 4. Evidence suggests they are very good, and if they are not up to GT5 premium standard then they are a very close second.

Ok you officially lost me, this is what Zr1 said:

Wow, just wow.

T10 made the cars in each mode as highly detailed as possible for each particular mode. Autovista is just capable of having a higher level of detail because the car isn't moving. The cars only change in detail when they are actually being viewed in Autovista. Once that same car that was in Autovista gets put on the track it switches to the gameplay modeling exactly like the premium cars of GT5 from photomode to actual gameplay. If you still don't get it then I give up on you. You are either a. playing dumb on purpose b. too thick headed to see past what you want it to be c. don't want to admit how good FM4 really looks, or d. just aren't smart enough to figure it out.

Either way you keep grasping at straws in an attempt to say that FM4 also has standard and premium cars when that is totally and utterly false.

Why are we changing stories to fit our descriptions now eh, he said that all cars are of equal quality when racing, so that means that the Autovista models only upgrade when they are in the mode. So this has nothing to do with Racing with autovista cars, it has to do with why there are only 25 autovista cars in the first place.

EDIT: Might as well stop here, no matter how hard i try you nor any of the Forza fans here are ready to accept the flaw in your arguments. I accept when am wrong but it's a lost cause when someone whom i argue with does not simply accept and they just keep rationalizing.

 

[Jamezinho]

Ok you officially lost me, this is what Zr1 said:



Why are we changing stories to fit our descriptions now eh, he said that all cars are of equal quality when racing, so that means that the Autovista models only upgrade when they are in the mode. So this has nothing to do with Racing with autovista cars, it has to do with why there are only 25 autovista cars in the first place.

EDIT: Might as well stop here, no matter how hard i try you nor any of the Forza fans here are ready to accept the flaw in your arguments. I accept when am wrong but it's a lost cause when someone whom i argue with does not simply accept and they just keep rationalizing.

Nobody is changing stories.

As has been said a few posts back, you seem hung up on the idea that every car in the game should be in Autovista when the whole point of the mode is to showcase some of the world's rarest and most desirable cars.

Do you expect the Vauxhall Agila and Ford Ka to be in Autovista with voiceover from Clarkson?

 

[430_Riviera]

why there are only 25 autovista cars in the first place.

There are only 25 autovista cars, because there is no need for any more. The DLC addons will keep the mode fresh and interesting, by the time you've gotten through the 10 hours of content included in the original game you will most likey have another few through DLC.

Like I said before, there are only 25 autovista cars because it's a small side show feature showing the future of the series, alongside a main game. Don't understand the focus on it. I'm just glad T10 didn't spend a vast amount of time and money trying to cram a few more cars into it to the detriment of the main game. *cough* PD*cough*

 

[Tenacious D]

(pic of Prologue)
That cost $40.

To be honest, for the introduction of cockpits and new lighting it was well worth the cost. lol

For some maybe. For others, it was easily seen as a $40 demo.

Evidently it was such a desirable demo that it was a platinum game just from pre-orders. This demo outsold Forza 3. And this, when there were undoubtedly a lot of used copies bouncing around. Evidently, some things aren't so easily seen around here.

Plenty of members around here have played them all. BigBazz for example. I may or may not agree with what he says but I respect the fact he talks from experience.

A shame that my experience evidently means squat around here with some people. Why I rarely post in here.

And as to the current thread topic, I know some of us won't give T10 the time of day for various reasons. Reminds me of the same thing with PD, imagine that. But honestly, guys, accusing those of attacking Forza 4 with net examples when many of you are defending it with net examples... don't you think that's a little strange? Just say, "Your opinion means zilch till launch day, and you should at least go to a friend's place who has it before you start swinging the flame hammer."

 

[Vaxxtx]

Evidently it was such a desirable demo that it was a platinum game just from pre-orders. This demo outsold Forza 3. And this, when there were undoubtedly a lot of used copies bouncing around. Evidently, some things aren't so easily seen around here.


A shame that my experience evidently means squat around here with some people. Why I rarely post in here.

And as to the current thread topic, I know some of us won't give T10 the time of day for various reasons. Reminds me of the same thing with PD, imagine that. But honestly, guys, accusing those of attacking Forza 4 with net examples when many of you are defending it with net examples... don't you think that's a little strange? Just say, "Your opinion means zilch till launch day, and you should at least go to a friend's place who has it before you start swinging the flame hammer."

What does the sales of GT5P have to do with what was being discussed?

Second part you are basically saying why doesnt everyone listen to me? Well since they dont hang on my every word of awesome gaming knowledge, I just wont back here often. Take your toys and go home? Ok.

Yeah, a guy comes here and lets everyone know he hates Forza, loves GT5. Never touched Forza and basically says he will bash it just because. Yeah...should have held hands, sang, and become Facebook friends...you are right.

 

[Terronium-12]

Evidently it was such a desirable demo that it was a platinum game just from pre-orders. This demo outsold Forza 3. And this, when there were undoubtedly a lot of used copies bouncing around. Evidently, some things aren't so easily seen around here.

It's amazing how often you grasp at whatever possible to form these incohesive retorts.

What in the hell does anything you've mentioned have to do with what was actually being discussed? No one you quoted ever said the demo was undesirable, or for that matter anything you made mention of at all. And on a separate note, bringing up sales again, really?

 

[FuzzyFassbender]

In my opinion, nothing wrong with being a "fan" of a particular gaming series. This is a "Forza Motorsport" forum talking everything Forza. Why do the GT "fans" feel it is necessary to come here to argue? While I have both GT and Forza, I don't have an interest in GT anymore so I don't even read the GT forums let alone post negative "opinions". I don't get it...

 

[Tornado]

it's all about priorties. PD can add important stuff to the gameplay first rather than some superficial arts and craft **** into the game. If i wanted to colour my car like my 10 year old nephew i would have bought mod nation racers. Perhaps when there's nothing more to add to the series, may be then PD should add livery. But it's just a waste of time and man power at the moment. It's pointless and adds nothing of value to the game.

I suppose you speak the truth. Not every developer can add such genre-changing functionality as horn customization and B-Spec Driver Dress Up.

i demanded the PSN ID because the gentleman looked phoney to me from his very first post. And so far i have been proved right

You have no idea how burden of proof actually works, do you?







Wait a minute.



NO WAY. It can't be:

nope. and why would i? nothing interests me on that console.

...



Bravo. Just... holy crap, congratulations. This is literally the most blatant, unbelievably stupid piece of hypocrisy I think I have ever seen; and this is the second time this week I have laughed so hard that I was literally in danger of passing out. You have to have the biggest balls on this entire forum to do something this audacious after the stunt you pulled a couple of hours ago.

 

[omgitsbees]

You have no idea how burden of proof actually works, do you?

vandaliser and a few others have been smoking something, not sure if I want to try it or not. It's probably great, as long as you don't get onto the internet after smoking it.

 

[Spagetti69]

Big guns are here now.

 

[Crispy]

Some are highly detailed compared to others because people will view them rather up-close with the autovista mode.

I think T10 said they use completely different models for Autovista.

 

[Daverytimes]

I think T10 said they use completely different models for Autovista.

Really? well that's good. I wonder if turn 10 are the ones who model it themselves (Seems so).

 

[marchi]

I suppose you speak the truth. Not every developer can add such genre-changing functionality as horn customization and B-Spec Driver Dress Up.


You have no idea how burden of proof actually works, do you?







Wait a minute.



NO WAY. It can't be:

...



Bravo. Just... holy crap, congratulations. This is literally the most blatant, unbelievably stupid piece of hypocrisy I think I have ever seen; and this is the second time this week I have laughed so hard that I was literally in danger of passing out. You have to have the biggest balls on this entire forum to do something this audacious after the stunt you pulled a couple of hours ago.

You should look up the term hypocrisy before slamming it down on anybody else.

 

[Tenacious D]

Yeah, a guy comes here and lets everyone know he hates Forza...

Wow, talk about putting words in people's mouths.

And I find it very interesting that it seems perfectly fine to discuss sales for other games, but not Gran Turismo? Biased much?

How did my post have nothing to do with the subject being discussed?

Never mind, Forza fanz, have fun <removed by mod>.

 

[Tornado]

You should look up the term hypocrisy before slamming it down on anybody else.

I must admit that I am somewhat intrigued by your attempt to sound clever, if only to wonder how you feel anything you could possible say would justify such a smug sense of superiority; but ultimately I don't actually give a crap. Good day.



Moving on to stuff that matters:

And I find it very interesting that it seems perfectly fine to discuss sales for other games

Since when?

Serious question.

 

[Bogie 19th]

I think T10 said they use completely different models for Autovista.

Turn 10 said they used a new lighting system and modeling in autovista then turned and put that into the 500-600 cars in the game. Of course with less detail due to console hardware limitations.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

I really don't get why people can't play both and get over themselves. "I'm a hipster so I like GT, since I played it back in '95". Or "I like FM cause it's new age and GT is too old!" I mean really!?!?!? There is a reason millions play both games and only a select few spend their days on these boards arguing and being the proclaimed reps to argue for the millions that couldn't care less. The whole that's why forza fans touch themselves is why I'm tired of this, I'm a big GT fan but at the same time why would I want to be labeled with a group that acts like children over a game.