Forza 6 vs Other Games - Physics Discussion Thread

[Ridox2JZGTE]

Ah, hot version. The home of the drift king himself. Love the runs they do on Gunsai touge

Enjoy



Lots of foot work

 

[Ialyrn]

Does Forza Motorsport 6 really enable you to take advantage of each of the drift initiation methods (as @Ialyrn listed)

I use inertia drifting, braking drifts, and sometimes even shift locking to drift in Forza.




Have been doing this since FM4, it is my preferred style of drifting. I tend to only use the handbrake to prolong a drift, as opposed to initiating a drift.




The times I use the handbrake to initiate, are usually when I really want to kick the back end out for a more aggressive drift; or while tandem drifting with friends.

 

[RacerPaul]

Whilst drifting is certainly a skillset all of its own, I could do without any sign of it in Forza

 

[Ialyrn]

Whilst drifting is certainly a skillset all of its own, I could do without any sign of it in Forza

Personally, I always tell people to learn how to drift in sim based racing games. It allows you to learn much better control of the car, and can even help you stop a small slide turning into an actual drift or a total spin.

As for whether it should be in Forza or not, well I have to both agree and disagree. I dont like the points drifting structure that T10 put into Forza, as it doesn't emulate how drifting is in the real world. So I would love for that mode to be gone, personally. Points drifting as it is in Forza, has really split the Forza drifting community in half. Still, I wouldn't want T10 to put in anything in place that stops people drifting at all. It is a very useful skill to have, and the tandem drifting community is all about having fun, and seeing how close we can get to another car while in a drift.

You also have to remember here, that if T10 where to make it so there was no sign of drifting at all in Forza. Then the game would be going in a direction that removes it away from reality, which would put Forza directly into the arcade category. This is because the physics engine in Forza would no longer be emulating in anyway how things work in the real world. If that makes any sense. So to have no sign of drifting at all, would actually make the game worse. Even someone like myself, who has been playing Forza since the day FM1 released, would skip any future forza game if it was like that.

 

[VXR]

If a game allows drifting without a change of its physics, then that's OK with me. Better to have a small points system and a realistic handling model that covers neat driving and drifting than something like Grid with a ridiculous drift mode.

 

[Speedster911]

I like how the game lets you choose how you want to drive or what events to take part in. Unlike other games, like GRID or NFS where drifting is encouraged, rewarded and makes you faster, thanks to the overly easy and far-from-reality physics.

Personally, I've been a precision driver since day 1, although drifting is fun when you want to test the car's limits and delve deeper into a game's physics engine.

 

[Speedster911]

When I played Forza Motorsport 4 I begged for more lift-off oversteer; it was a chore to plow through every corner without being able to properly adjust my line or steer with the throttle for the fun of it. It also contributed to make drifting brutish and lame, because it was mainly a matter of booting the throttle and steering where you wanted to go. Throttle = drift. No throttle = no drift. The physics-defying countersteer could mop up a lot of carelessness.

I did notice more oversteer in FM5, but countersteer still resulted in unexpected (inaccurate) drift trajectories. Does Forza Motorsport 6 really enable you to take advantage of each of the drift initiation methods (as @Ialyrn listed) with the intuitive flexibility of a sim like Enthusia, or is it at least making strides in that direction?

"FR cars are not prone to lift off oversteer in real life"...my old E30 would oversteer if you drove it the way we play these games, and it would be an E class car in a Forza game. Ditto for the Legacy, actually, until you get on the power.

Wolfe, good to see your posts after a while!

You should absolutely get FM6 in a heart beat - not only have they tweaked the physics more, but the suspension reacts more realistically to the road surface, so suspension and weight transfer physics are two things you will immediately notice and appreciate. Also, grip has been tweaked as well, but not in a Horizon kind of way, but to better simulate on and off throttle understeer/oversteer for cars of different power trains and engine configurations.

You really need to have F6 coarsing through your veins mate, pronto!

 

[Blue028]

Perhaps broken is the wrong word to use..... Lets put it this way. The intended device that sim steering is supposed to be used with, is with the xbox control pad; not a wheel. The wheel doesn't use the hidden controller aids in normal steering like the default xbox controller does (bolded because you keep ignoring this part, please dont, it is important to what I am discussing here with you). So by turning on sim steering while using a wheel, it makes everything hyper sensitive at the wheels center. As I said hours ago in a previous post, the controller emulates 180° of steering lock to lock. And sim steering, at its core, is designed to work with that particular device and its emulation of 180° of steering rotation.

regarding the part in bold, that is not 100% true. On normal steering on the wheel you have 2 aids on, 1 is a weight transfer dampener if you will, it reduces your steering input at the moment just before the cars weight is transfered giving you much slower transitions during drifting or a tankslappers. 2 is the counter steering, it's not like it is on the controller were it won't let you push past the optimal angle too much, but it amplifies your input so you never have to use the full 450 degrees in either direction, it effectively halves the needed input so if your counter steering the wheel range is effectively reduced from 900 to 450 (225 degrees either direction)

Simulation should be the way to use a wheel but IMO the ffb is the root cause of the problems here. It's not an issue with sim steering itself or the physics, just simply the ffb not giving the right information in certain circumstances, particularly oversteer.

 

[Ialyrn]

is the counter steering, it's not like it is on the controller were it won't let you push past the optimal angle too much, but it amplifies your input so you never have to use the full 450 degrees in either direction, it effectively halves the needed input so if your counter steering the wheel range is effectively reduced from 900 to 450 (225 degrees either direction)

I have done more than enough drifting at 900° in Forza to know this is not the case at all. If there is a counter steer aid present, it is not there reducing how much counter steering rotation it takes to control the drift, as I regularly use full lock to lock while drifting at that setting. In fact, it is where the wheel self rotates too on a high angle drift.

a weight transfer dampener if you will

I have mentioned this in other posts, and on the Forza forums, which you know full well since you have been a part of the same threads where I have discussed it on the FM.net forums, and about how the FFB feels very dampened while drifting. I have even privately contacted a T10 staff member directly about it. I have managed to reduce the effect by turning off Rumble and setting vibration to 0% (which I have also discussed on the FM.net forums), but it is still there regardless. What this isnt doing though, is reducing the available range of motion of the wheel. Again, I regularly use the full 900° of rotation while drifting, lock to lock. This is no different to when I am drifting in Assetto Corsa, where I use exactly the same wheel rotation setting for drifting. My style of drifting is no different between both of those games, and the amount of rotation I use to control the drift is also no different.

The FFB is an issue, and I have never said that it isnt. There is a deadzone in the FFB at the wheels center, and it does feel dampened.

 

[Blue028]

I also have a lot of drifting experience with 900 degrees on forza and other pc Sims like live for speed, rfactor, assetto corsa, iracing and even gran torismo. I have been studied the way forza handles inputs through the wheel since I got my fanatec gt2 back on forza 3 and there has always been a manipulation of input while countersteering on normal steering. Forza 3 was the worst offender and it would reduce your range from 900 to 270, forza 4 made it feel more natural with the reduction going from 900 to approx.450 depending on your wheel setting. The only way and I mean the ONLY way to achieve full 900 degree range is to glitch the wheel. Without the glitch, Yes you can still countersteer to full lock if you wish but you are turning the wheel into a massive deadzone and if the car happens to start straightening up again you will find you have to turn your wheel all the way back through that deadzone for it to take any effect on the car, normally resulting in a complete straighten up of the wheel to keep the car going sideways rather than the usual tweak.

If you want to test it out do a small drift and hold your wheel at the point of countering the slide, then hold the wheel in that position and don't let it move and smash the brakes on and let the car come to a compleate stop, watch the input in the telemtry change as the car stops or pulls out of the drift.

I have a very similar driving style to you lalyrn, and I would love to drive on forza with you once I get my wheel up and running.

 

[Speedster911]

Okay guys, so bottom line: SIM steering on a wheel in Forza works fine (as you would expect it to compared to RL) but the only problem is FFB? Everything else functions as it should?

 

[Blue028]

Okay guys, so bottom line: SIM steering on a wheel in Forza works fine (as you would expect it to compared to RL) but the only problem is FFB? Everything else functions as it should?

Yes,

When people talk about the update in forza 4 that 'broke' SIM steering it didn't break it at all, It fixed it to be the way it was intended (if your curious as to what it fixed it removed the counter steering aid i was talking about previously although aid is probably not the right wording as it's more of a bug that reduces the steering range when oversteering) this bug or aid or whatever is still present in normal steering on all forza games, including horizon.

Normal steering feels more natural because of the assist that reduces the weight transfer but this assist doesn't change the physics, as you can do exactly the same thing on Sim steering (its just extremely difficult or near imposible to het a feel for though) as the assist is merely slightly adjusting your input to avoid bad situations were huge weight transfers occur (like tankslappers, you will notice on normal steering tankslappers pretty much never happen no matter what car your in, street car with street tyres, race car with slicks, they will all only be able to rotate at the same speed as it won't allow rapid weight transfers)

If you try oversteering on normal steering in a street car vs a race car, they feel pretty much the same. If you do the same but on Sim steering you will find the street car will be far more progressive and the race car will be much more difficult as it should be.

Bottom line is if the ffb was actually accurate then sim steering would be the go to choice for wheel users

Edit: here is an old direct comparison (from forza 4) that shows how much steering reduction happens when oversteering on normal steering

Fist 2 laps are done with just the regular normal steering, then using the exact same settings but with the glitch you can see how much more wheel work is required to drift

 

[Ialyrn]

If you want to test it out do a small drift and hold your wheel at the point of countering the slide, then hold the wheel in that position and don't let it move and smash the brakes on and let the car come to a compleate stop, watch the input in the telemtry change as the car stops or pulls out of the drift.

That might have been the case in FM4, I dont know because I only had the Microsoft wireless racing wheel, not a Fanatec. However I do know about the glitch, as I was looking to buy a Fanatec wheel well before the X1 launched. And the steering wheel glitch popped up while I was looking for reviews on the CSR.
In FM5 and FM6, that is not what happens at all. And just to show you that I did what you suggested, here is the video I recorded. It is live gameplay, not from a replay:



My procedure for starting FM6 with the wheel goes like this:

1, Turn on the Xbox one.
2, plug the wheel into the mains outlet.
3, Once the Xbox has fully booted up I plug in the USB cable for the wheel.
4, I sign into my profile using the wheel.
5, I start which ever version of Forza on the Xbox one I feel like playing.
6, I load up a random car and a track, and once loaded I press all three pedals fully multiple times to make sure they are calibrated correctly, and I check to make sure the H-Shifter is working.
7, I start playing the game normally from at this point.

Edit: here is an old direct comparison (from forza 4) that shows how much steering reduction happens when oversteering on normal steering

How ever it was in FM4, or other previous versions of Forza Motorsport, has no baring on how it is now in FM5 and FM6. This glitch was there at the start of FM5, but T10 patched wheel support pretty quickly in the 2nd title update (Shame they didn't remove the FFB deadzone at the wheel center, which is still there in FM6). I remember the 900° glitch when FM5 released, as Spitsy had to use it in their early FM5 drifting videos for proper 900° steering with the TX wheel. By the time I had purchased a TX wheel, this had already been fixed and was no longer an issue.

By the way Blue, did you ever get that input lag issue sorted out you was having? Curious to know if it was your TV in the end.

Edit 1: You can still glitch with Sim steering turned on though. I tried the glitch in both steering modes just in case, as I wanted to make absolute certain. If you unplug the USB cable on track with sim steering, it removes the hyper sensitivity at the center. Makes no difference in Normal steering however.

I wont be doing this while playing Forza however, as I lose the ability to use the H-shifter.

Edit 2: I do have to thank you though Blue, trying to recreate the FM4 900° glitch has actually improved the Force feedback feel somewhat. So the glitch does still work in part I guess, just not with the steering itself in normal steering with 900°. I was having issues drifting with anything other than stock tires, as with a better compound, it felt like there was a ton of FFB damping and the wheel would not self rotate at all. It would also feel very notchy. Since unplugging the wheel and plugging it back in again with Forza running, I can drift with the sports tires again. So with you having this discussion with me, as actually helped me out in an unexpected area. So thank you for that.

I will have to see if I can get my H-shifter working like this.

 

[Blue028]

In FM5 and FM6, that is not what happens at all. And just to show you that I did what you suggested, here is the video I recorded. It is live gameplay, not from a replay:

Snip



How ever it was in FM4, or other previous versions of Forza Motorsport, has no baring on how it is now in FM5 and FM6. This glitch was there at the start of FM5, but T10 patched wheel support pretty quickly in the 2nd title update (Shame they didn't remove the FFB deadzone at the wheel center, which is still there in FM6). I remember the 900° glitch when FM5 released, as Spitsy had to use it in their early FM5 drifting videos for proper 900° steering with the TX wheel. By the time I had purchased a TX wheel, this had already been fixed and was no longer an issue.

I wasn't aware they had patched it, in the short time I used my tx wheel (didnt like it st all compared to my wheel) it was definatley still present though, can't remember what time frame that was though so once I get my fanatec up and running on the x1 I will definatley check it out

By the way Blue, did you ever get that input lag issue sorted out you was having? Curious to know if it was your TV in the end.

It was my TV, I managed to reduce it on the 360 by using the component hd cables rather than the hdmi, will be getting a gaming monitor for forza 6 and use hdmi->dvi-d.

Edit 1: You can still glitch with Sim steering turned on though. I tried the glitch in both steering modes just in case, as I wanted to make absolute certain. If you unplug the USB cable on track with sim steering, it removes the hyper sensitivity at the center. Makes no difference in Normal steering however.

I wont be doing this while playing Forza however, as I lose the ability to use the H-shifter.

Interesting, is it possible on the g920 to adjust the rotation using the secret methods on the wheel itself (like with the g25/27)? If your not sure what I'm talking about have a look at the hardware section of this forum, there is I stickied thread that has a list of undocumented wheel setting on the Logitech wheels. If it works you may be able to get the glitch working with the shifter as well.

Edit 2: I do have to thank you though Blue, trying to recreate the FM4 900° glitch has actually improved the Force feedback feel somewhat. So the glitch does still work in part I guess, just not with the steering itself in normal steering with 900°. I was having issues drifting with anything other than stock tires, as with a better compound, it felt like there was a ton of FFB damping and the wheel would not self rotate at all. It would also feel very notchy. Since unplugging the wheel and plugging it back in again with Forza running, I can drift with the sports tires again. So with you having this discussion with me, as actually helped me out in an unexpected area. So thank you for that.

Well I'm glad it has helped, I like having these discussions. I know I can be very stubborn but what you have said and showed me looks promising but I won't be 100% convinced until I can test it myself.

Thanks for taking the time to post all these videos too, I enjoy watching them and I admire your efforts in trying to help others understand how things work on here and on FM. Net boards, im sure others appreciate it too, so thank you as well

 

[Ialyrn]

Interesting, is it possible on the g920 to adjust the rotation using the secret methods on the wheel itself (like with the g25/27)? If your not sure what I'm talking about have a look at the hardware section of this forum, there is I stickied thread that has a list of undocumented wheel setting on the Logitech wheels. If it works you may be able to get the glitch working with the shifter as well.

I have tried quite a few different button combinations on the wheel, but it doesn't appear to have any hardware adjustments at all, which is a shame. Regardless of that however, the wheel is actually quite good on the Xbox one. The PC drivers are a bit naff at the moment however, but I will just use my G27 on there.

 

[Blue028]

I have tried quite a few different button combinations on the wheel, but it doesn't appear to have any hardware adjustments at all, which is a shame. Regardless of that however, the wheel is actually quite good on the Xbox one. The PC drivers are a bit naff at the moment however, but I will just use my G27 on there.

That is a shame, perhaps you could recomend it to be added in future FW as I can see it being a useful tool and pretty much all wheels have these settings now

 

[Speedster911]

Yes,

When people talk about the update in forza 4 that 'broke' SIM steering it didn't break it at all, It fixed it to be the way it was intended (if your curious as to what it fixed it removed the counter steering aid i was talking about previously although aid is probably not the right wording as it's more of a bug that reduces the steering range when oversteering) this bug or aid or whatever is still present in normal steering on all forza games, including horizon.

Normal steering feels more natural because of the assist that reduces the weight transfer but this assist doesn't change the physics, as you can do exactly the same thing on Sim steering (its just extremely difficult or near imposible to het a feel for though) as the assist is merely slightly adjusting your input to avoid bad situations were huge weight transfers occur (like tankslappers, you will notice on normal steering tankslappers pretty much never happen no matter what car your in, street car with street tyres, race car with slicks, they will all only be able to rotate at the same speed as it won't allow rapid weight transfers)

If you try oversteering on normal steering in a street car vs a race car, they feel pretty much the same. If you do the same but on Sim steering you will find the street car will be far more progressive and the race car will be much more difficult as it should be.

Bottom line is if the ffb was actually accurate then sim steering would be the go to choice for wheel users

Edit: here is an old direct comparison (from forza 4) that shows how much steering reduction happens when oversteering on normal steering

Fist 2 laps are done with just the regular normal steering, then using the exact same settings but with the glitch you can see how much more wheel work is required to drift

Ah yes, I do remember the FM4 wheel glitch where the game would reset the countersteering ROM to something significantly lower than the user selected input range on regular steering. It wasn't behaving as it should, and that's when Fanatec asked their users to use normal steering. A firmware update and a game update fixed that glitch; I remember seeing a number of youtube vids where experienced wheel users were drifting and recovering from slides like a pro using full 900 degs of motion. The wheel started to behave just the way it should.

I have always preferred using SIM steering because of how it keeps you on the edge of your seat and exactly the reason you pointed out: normal makes pretty much every car feel more or less the same and driving is a little too straightforward for my taste. SIM lets you feel every car in a unique and distinct way. I can't think of any other way to describe it. I've always been on a controller BTW, using 0/100 and very precise, controlled and subtle movements on the stick. How I move the stick gets the car behaving exactly as I would expect IRL, though not a big fan of the speed sensitive steering - to remedy the cap on steering I sometimes reduce the outside dead to 80 to get the street and road cars going to max lock faster around tighter bends and hairpins.

I was playing F5 last night and I've got to say vibration and rumble isn't quite as good or direct in F6. So I'm guessing that's where the FFB problem in F6 stems from - dialing down, well... force feedback?! F5 lets you feel the car and road surface so well with its vibration and trigger rumble. Would you say FFB in F5 is done better as well due to this?

 

[Blue028]

With all due respect speedster, ffb and vibration are two seperate things entirely, Controllers don't have ffb. The level of feel you get through your controller is nothing compared to the feel you get through a ffb wheel

 

[Speedster911]

With all due respect speedster, ffb and vibration are two seperate things entirely, Controllers don't have ffb. The level of feel you get through your controller is nothing compared to the feel you get through a ffb wheel

That's not what I was getting at. Aa'been playing games for a long LONG time matey - I do know FFB and vibration are not the same.

I was getting at: F6's vibration and rumble scale is weak compared to F5, is that ALSO to blame for inadequate FFB in wheels? Was FFB better in F5? If so, that explains better mapping and programming, which translates across the board: better FFB + better vibration/rumble.

 

[Blue028]

Ah I see, my mistake.

I don't think it is to blame for the ffb. I believe 6 is an improvement over 5 but nothing huge and definatley not at the level it should be.

 

[Ialyrn]

was getting at: F6's vibration and rumble scale is weak compared to F5, is that ALSO to blame for inadequate FFB in wheels? Was FFB better in F5? If so, that explains better mapping and programming, which translates across the board: better FFB + better vibration/rumble.

Personally I turn off rumble and vibration on my wheel, so I am just getting the Force Feedback information sent to the wheel.

I find FM5's FFB better for drifting, as the wheel will self rotate far better.

I find FM6's FFB better for racing however, it just feels nicer to me, more weighted. But that quite possibly shows an issue, as T10 might have increased the FFB damping and filtering. Which would explain why the wheel isn't as great for drifting with in FM6.

Damping and Filtering are 2 things I never use on the PC.

That is a shame, perhaps you could recomend it to be added in future FW as I can see it being a useful tool and pretty much all wheels have these settings not

Yep sure is, I would love for Logitech to have the auto-clutch feature that the TX wheel uses. When I really want to put in a quick time, then I have to ditch the H-shifter, as I always shift properly when using it. For a good fast time then I need to flat shift using a button clutch and the paddles.

 

[Blue028]

Personally I turn off rumble

Same here

I find FM6's FFB better for racing however, it just feels nicer to me, more weighted. But that quite possibly shows an issue, as T10 might have increased the FFB damping and filtering. Which would explain why the wheel isn't as great for drifting with in FM6.

This is were the drift mode on fanatec wheels really comes in handy, just their tuning option in general are a really nice feature.

Yep sure is, I would love for Logitech to have the auto-clutch feature that the TX wheel uses. When I really want to put in a quick time, then I have to ditch the H-shifter, as I always shift properly when using it. For a good fast time then I need to flat shift using a button clutch and the paddles.

I know what you mean, I hate how we can't shift without the clutch on sequential shift cars, whether it's a paddle shift car or a sequential stick race car, we should be able to shift without the need to use the clutch pedal on upshifts

 

[Speedster911]

Same here


This is were the drift mode on fanatec wheels really comes in handy, just their tuning option in general are a really nice feature.



I know what you mean, I hate how we can't shift without the clutch on sequential shift cars, whether it's a paddle shift car or a sequential stick race car, we should be able to shift without the need to use the clutch pedal on upshifts

Wait, what? You still have to use the clutch on paddle shifts? That's wierd, you shouldn't have to!

Personally I turn off rumble and vibration on my wheel, so I am just getting the Force Feedback information sent to the wheel.

I find FM5's FFB better for drifting, as the wheel will self rotate far better.

I find FM6's FFB better for racing however, it just feels nicer to me, more weighted. But that quite possibly shows an issue, as T10 might have increased the FFB damping and filtering. Which would explain why the wheel isn't as great for drifting with in FM6.

Yes, the wheel does self-rotate when you drift IRL. So F5 has the wheel input dialed in better. Do you think F6 was made with more focus on the casual racer? Just a thought.

Physics are great - but game feels easy and less nuanced compared to F5.

 

[Ialyrn]

Wait, what? You still have to use the clutch on paddle shifts? That's wierd, you shouldn't have to!

Which is in line with the assist options that are in Forza for the transmission (Auto/Manual without clutch/manual with clutch). As it stands the fastest way to shift up gears in Forza, is to use a button clutch and flat shift with your foot planted on the accelerator. Doesn't matter if it is on the wheel or a controller. But the Thrustmaster TX with updated firmware has an auto clutch feature, which automatically gives a press of the "B" button (clutch on the wheel while using layout 1, clutch has to be on "B" for it to work) to engage the clutch when the left/right paddle is used. I would assume it also works while using the TH8A shifter, but I cant test myself, as I do not own the TX wheel or the TH8A shifter.

This was also the same with FM4 and the CSR/CSR elite wheels, not sure about the Porsche wheels they did though. @Blue028 would have to shed some light on that one.

Yes, the wheel does self-rotate when you drift IRL. So F5 has the wheel input dialed in better. Do you think F6 was made with more focus on the casual racer? Just a thought.

Physics are great - but game feels easy and less nuanced compared to F5.

The wheels steering/throttle/brake/clutch inputs between FM5 and FM6 are the same, I am just talking about the FFB implementation here. There is something going on in FM6, and it feels as though there is excessive force feedback damping. This causes a force feedback wheel to rotate slower under its own power, or not at all.

I am only saying it feels like excessive damping based on how it is when I play Assetto Corsa or another sim on the PC, as the Logitech profiling software for the G27, and even for the Thrustmaster/Fanatec FFB wheels have similar options in their profiling software. Where you can adjust the Damping independently from the game software. If you set "damping" to 0% in the profiling software, then no matter what setting you have in game, it is overridden by the wheels device driver. If I have a ton of damping set in the Logitech profiling software and in game, then the wheel behaves the same as it does in FM6. Which is to say the wheel self rotates slowly/not at all. Which is not good for countersteering in general, let alone trying to drift with a setting like that. At least at 900° of steering rotation. It doesn't matter as much if you was using say 270° of steering rotation.

The great thing about the Fanatec wheels, is that some of the settings in Forza can be overridden by the wheel hardware itself. The Fanatec wheels are built with the profiling software sort of built into them, and there is a range of options available on the wheel hardware itself.

This allows the user to adjust:

1. Sensitivity (DOR).
2. Force Feedback levels.
3. Shock.
4. Drift mode.
5. ABS.
6. Linearity.
7. Deadzone.
8. Spring.
9. Damper

This is what you can get with a more premium wheel for the console, but the CSW v2 is well out of my price range atm, lol.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

Adjusting caster should also help self centering when drifting/sideways Keep that in mind when looking for more self centering on the wheel.

 

[Speedster911]

Which is in line with the assist options that are in Forza for the transmission (Auto/Manual without clutch/manual with clutch). As it stands the fastest way to shift up gears in Forza, is to use a button clutch and flat shift with your foot planted on the accelerator. Doesn't matter if it is on the wheel or a controller. But the Thrustmaster TX with updated firmware has an auto clutch feature, which automatically gives a press of the "B" button (clutch on the wheel while using layout 1, clutch has to be on "B" for it to work) to engage the clutch when the left/right paddle is used. I would assume it also works while using the TH8A shifter, but I cant test myself, as I do not own the TX wheel or the TH8A shifter.

This was also the same with FM4 and the CSR/CSR elite wheels, not sure about the Porsche wheels they did though. @Blue028 would have to shed some light on that one.



The wheels steering/throttle/brake/clutch inputs between FM5 and FM6 are the same, I am just talking about the FFB implementation here. There is something going on in FM6, and it feels as though there is excessive force feedback damping. This causes a force feedback wheel to rotate slower under its own power, or not at all.

I am only saying it feels like excessive damping based on how it is when I play Assetto Corsa or another sim on the PC, as the Logitech profiling software for the G27, and even for the Thrustmaster/Fanatec FFB wheels have similar options in their profiling software. Where you can adjust the Damping independently from the game software. If you set "damping" to 0% in the profiling software, then no matter what setting you have in game, it is overridden by the wheels device driver. If I have a ton of damping set in the Logitech profiling software and in game, then the wheel behaves the same as it does in FM6. Which is to say the wheel self rotates slowly/not at all. Which is not good for countersteering in general, let alone trying to drift with a setting like that. At least at 900° of steering rotation. It doesn't matter as much if you was using say 270° of steering rotation.

The great thing about the Fanatec wheels, is that some of the settings in Forza can be overridden by the wheel hardware itself. The Fanatec wheels are built with the profiling software sort of built into them, and there is a range of options available on the wheel hardware itself.

This allows the user to adjust:

1. Sensitivity (DOR).
2. Force Feedback levels.
3. Shock.
4. Drift mode.
5. ABS.
6. Linearity.
7. Deadzone.
8. Spring.
9. Damper

This is what you can get with a more premium wheel for the console, but the CSW v2 is well out of my price range atm, lol.

I enjoyed reading that. You really know your wheels, don't you Ialyrn?

What's a really great wheel to get for the X1? The TX? My dream wheel would be one which has paddle shifters and a stick shift along with the ability to go to full 900 degs. Decent FFB and all. I imagine these wheels are priced anywhere between $400 and $600, correct?

 

[Ialyrn]

Well there is the MadCatz wheel, but I wont go there.

The Logitech G920 wheel, which I have, is around $399 US. The driving force shifter should be around $60/$70 US. It is the cheapest option, but the best entry level wheel in my opinion. Anything on the Xbox one that does not have FFB is not worth it if you ask me, but not everyone can afford the entry price.

The Thrustmaster TX comes in various flavors now, and the price will change depending which things you buy. The base TX wheel, with the F458 rim and 2 pedals is around $300 US. A 3 pedal set will cost you about $100 minimum, and the TH8A shifter on top will cost around a further $120. The advantage here though, is that the wheel is modular in its design. There are 2 levels of pedals (T3PA and T3PA pro), and a fair few wheel rims available. It also has a few on the wheel adjustments, such as wheel sensitivity and DOR, as well as the previously discussed "auto clutch" option all built into the firmware.

The Fanatec CSW v2 is the most expensive with the base unit dropping in at a whopping $599 US. The pedals are around $300, and the shifter is a further $200 With the Xbox one wheel hub, pedals, and shifter. Plus a wheel stand/cockpit... This is going to easily cost you over $1200+ US. This wheel has the most options available to it, as I points out before. A whole host of add on wheel rims, a hand brake attachment (dont know if it works on the Xbox) are available for it.

 

[Blue028]

Which is in line with the assist options that are in Forza for the transmission (Auto/Manual without clutch/manual with clutch). As it stands the fastest way to shift up gears in Forza, is to use a button clutch and flat shift with your foot planted on the accelerator. Doesn't matter if it is on the wheel or a controller. But the Thrustmaster TX with updated firmware has an auto clutch feature, which automatically gives a press of the "B" button (clutch on the wheel while using layout 1, clutch has to be on "B" for it to work) to engage the clutch when the left/right paddle is used. I would assume it also works while using the TH8A shifter, but I cant test myself, as I do not own the TX wheel or the TH8A shifter.

'A' button and as far as I know it does not work with the shifter, only paddles same as what was on the fanatec wheels.

This was also the same with FM4 and the CSR/CSR elite wheels, not sure about the Porsche wheels they did though. @Blue028 would have to shed some light on that one.

Im pretty sure it could be done on the porche wheels too

What's a really great wheel to get for the X1? The TX? My dream wheel would be one which has paddle shifters and a stick shift along with the ability to go to full 900 degs. Decent FFB and all. I imagine these wheels are priced anywhere between $400 and $600, correct?

I would wait until fanatec anounce their budget line of wheels for the x1,they should compete well with the Logitech and thrustmaster offerings and you'll get all those settings to play with on the wheel lalyrn mentioned, and you can adjust them on the fly I might add

 

[Ialyrn]

'A' button

Been a long day, lol.

 

[RacerPaul]

Anything on the Xbox one that does not have FFB is not worth it if you ask me...

I bought on non ffb 458 spider wheel just to see if I fancied the whole wheel thing again. I was very much into it on PS2 and 3

I didn't want to lash out a big lump of money on a wheel if I wasn't going to use it a lot. Turns out to be a wise move because I've found that I prefer to kick back with the controller nowadays

I use the wheel occasionally and it's ok for a while but I find myself wanting to go back to the pad after 20 minutes or so