FM Vs GT - Discussion Thread (read the first post before you post)

[RX-7_FD3S]

You realise GT5s physics look laughable when you watch youtube videos of it, right? Hell, IMO when I've played it, it feels laughable. Very little in the way of realistic simulation and just feels like they've tried to make the game hard.

GT5 is on par with FM3 on the simulation level honestly. I dont see how you can say that FM is more arcade then GT because it's not the case.
Can you please explain exactly why you feel it was more arcadish ?

 

[RWB1213]

What I'm seeing in most of this thread is there are few solid defenses left for GT5. I understand some of you just love PD's modelling of the Nurburgring and weather and time change. Certainly if FM4 is arguably equal in graphics and physics, and superior in sound, AI, on and offline play, community, livery design, leaderboards, tuning and economy . . . isn't criticizing it's modelling of the ring a bit short-sighted? I simply can't get past GT5's horrible AI, pop up shadows, broken economy, horrible level progression and unfinished car models . . . the only redeeming quality is the physics and driving . . . everything else feels broken/patched/ignored. It used to be excusable when the competition wasn't even on the same playing field, but those days are from decades past. These GT5 updates feel like life support for the dying king. What? Now there is a bug with saving mid-race? When will it end? For lots of us the beginning of the end was Oct. 11, 2011. PD seriously needs to get it's act together . . .

 

[Luminis]

After watching numerous videos of FM4 gameplay (i don't own FM4), i can say it looks more fun/arcade-like.

You can't say a god damn thing about the game's physics. Not one single thing until you've played it yourself.

Really, what's with that kind of attitude? And it's not the first time I've read that "I can judge physics based on videos I saw" BS. You know, most people who've been criticizing GT5 have, from what I've read, played the game at least, and quite a few of us even put a decent bit of time into it before deciding we're not liking it all that much.

If you don't know the game you want to criticize, I'd say you'd better keep your pie hole shut, really. The only thing it does is it makes you look like an idiot to comment on a game you've never even played like that. If it was about the graphics, or the sound, okay. That's something that can be somewhat judged by a video, but physics? Really?

Yeah but with Forza theres no screen tearing and blocky shadows or cars with wheel arches that are shaped like an octagon.

Don't expect people to get that. They're looking at pictures of premium cars taken in photo mode and call it a day. Maybe add a replay here and there. However, most people seem to not give a damn about how the game looks in actual motion, during gameplay.

Tearing and frame rate drops, flickering shadows - you don't see that in photo mode pictures, you doon't see most of it during replays as much, so it seems most people don't care. If they can showcase the game looking good, that's all that counts, right?

Not sure what that orange car is, but that picture is amazing.

TVR Sagaris.

isn't criticizing it's modelling of the ring a bit short-sighted?

I guess it simply shows how little people have little left to keep criticizing the game for, so we're down to using the inaccuracy of a single track for loads and loads of criticism and how that alone makes the game rubbish...

 

[Symtex]

I love Dan Greenawalt on his last interview he did. He said that other game emphasis bump on track to give more rumble then it would really be in real life. Good for video game not realistic of real life. If this isn't a shot a GT5 Nurburgring, I don't know what it is.

 

[badeddy]

Here is my opinion comparing both games. First I would like the address the Nurburgring Nord argument. In FM3 my struggle with this track in particular was how they designed it along with the perception of speed within the game made the experience dull compared to gt5. I don't think that the problem was that the track was too wide but rather they made a narrow track and a wider than normal run off area on the sides of the track. This also affected how you view the track when driving because it gives you greater distance to see and so the corners aren't blind and you didn't get the seat of the pants experience and challenge you got from gt5s version. The other thing that helps Gt5 is there are more trees and background foliage so it helps aid this. With Forza 4 IMO this has been somewhat remedied because of the effect of speed being increased in the game. The track itself is just as narrow if not more so in this version and i really like how they added so much in the background. My only gripe with it is that the run off areas are still to wide in some parts of the track. Now that that's out of the way here is my comparison. on a scale of 1 to 10 with 10 being best.
gt5 vs forza 4

1. Graphics:Gt5 gets a 9 forza 4 gets a 9.5. Honestly the deciding factor here is twofold some of gt5s tracks look poorly done to me. They seem to have spent more time on the nurburgring than any other track. Compare the top gear test track and look at the background buildings etc. While Gt5s track looks as good the backgrounds do not IMO. The second thing that gives Forza 4 the edge here IMO is that it seems to be more polished in every aspect but especially in the graphics dept.

2. Sound: Gt5 gets a 7 while Forza 4 IMO gets a 10. This category plays a huge part of teh overall experience of the game. Anyone who has ever visited a race track understands that sound is part of what makes motorsports so great. With Gt5 if you mod your car with the totally customizable transmission it makes every car sound as if it's supercharged while the engine sounds are already OK at best. Some cars sound like weed wackers to me. Tire squeel isn't that convincing to me as well. Forza 4 on the other hand nails the sounds and actually ups the bar with forza 4. The engine sounds are phenomenal, tire squeel is great and even the point at which the breaks lock up or you are at the edge of grip has the tire sounds perfect.

3. Tuning: GT5 gets an 8 while Forza4 gets a 10. This is really where Gt5 has me at a loss. The game is entitled the real race/driving simulator however there are no brake upgrades, Tires are limited in that you cannot increase width or diameter nor is their an option that lets you tune tire pressure, there are no engine or drive train swaps, Aero kits are limited and some tuning options are just plain generic ie engine mods include stage 1-3 and an ecu upgrade only. Forza 4 on the other hand has the nail on the head with a plethora of options for all categories. If you are going to advertise as the real race/ driving simulator please realize that the 3 most important areas of this in real life are BRAKES, TIRES, AND AERO but again this is just my opinion.

4. Painting: This category IMO is a no brainer. GT5 gets a 2 here while forza 4 gets a 10. First GT5 doesn't have a livery editor this should come in some form or another as standard on any racer even if you have preselected liveries for the cars. Next in GT5 why should I have to earn car colors to paint other cars with? If I go to an auto dealer they normally have several factory colors or i can go to a paint shop and pay for whatever colors i want. At the least GT5 should have done this. Forza 4 on the other hand has an incredible livery editor of which i have seen some of the most beautiful paint jobs and replicas made of real cars and in some instances they look better than the real cars. Also with Forza 4 you can now adjust the tints hues etc of any color you pick in the advanced options.

5. Physics: There was a day when GT5s physics were better than forzas but this day has passed. Both games are a tie in this category for me and get a 10. To me you can drive either of these games and be extremely happy with the physics model presented

6. Tracks: Both games have tracks that the other does not and so it's close in this category i have to give my vote to forza because all of their tracks look polished. So my vote here is GT5 gets a 9 vs Forza 4 getting a 9.5. Both games also have the ability to up the track count with dlc so this is why it is close.

7. Weather and types of racing: GT5 shines here with rally, carting and dynamic weather changes as well as night racing so i give it a 10 here and Forza a 8 because forza does have options for races like the auto soccer, tag virus etc and in FM4 although we didn't get weather changes we did get various times of day. We are still lacking a rally option as well.

8. Online community, perks/ contests: The final category i put in a lump sum because it's all tied in. Gt5 gets a 5 in this category whereas Forza gets a 10. I think the problem with PD and Kaz is that he spends more time doing GT academy and being in the lime light than developing GT5 the reason i bring that up is because it is considered one of the perks and selling points of GT5 ie doing the time trials for gt academy quals in real life. You can also take a look at gt4 which was a much more polished game and was developed when there was no GT academy. GT TV was a decent idea but realistically if i want to watch real car videos I will go to youtube or buy the DVDs on my own. The last thing i want to do when playing a racing game is stop to watch car movies. Now with Forza 4 dropping we get GT5 2.0 with a better intro ( uhhhhh he should have spent the time and efforts putting more into the game to make it look like the intro than making another intro), Dlc coming but i doubt that it will be on the scale of Forza 4 with members getting 10 cars a month and more than likely extra tracks. This also brings me to another little detail Gt5 boasted about over 1000 cars but again only 200 were premium with the rest being ports from older gt titles with sub par graphics and no dash view. ( the new dash views in black shadows are horrible and imo a weak attempt at pacifying those who were disappointed by the lack of this option). I always thought that if Gt 5 had more online options and community that they should have done just what Forza is doing. Release a polished game with the 200 or so premium cars and then each month add more premium cars to up the count. Forza has it in my vote again with this category with unicorn cars, car packs dlc, track pack dlc, various types of racing online, Forza 4 brings back the ability to create public and private rooms and even if you are just wanting to hang out and be silly they have auto soccer, tag, virus etc. Also with auction house, car clubs ( which is my favorite perk), storefronts, community contest etc. The partnering up with top gear and auto vista with Jeremy Clarkson giving commentary is pure genius IMO. Forza wins in this category hands down.

These 8 categories are my opinion and score as to which game is better in it's category and why. It is my opinion that Forza 4 trumps GT5 in most areas and is overall a better and more polished product. Also considering that it took PD 6 years to release gt5 and what we got was a lot of empty promises imo vs the shorter time of turn 10 and we got exactly what they said we would my vote goes to Forza 4. the final total scores are.

GT5=7.5 vs Forza 4= 9.6 the scores were gotten by adding up all categories and dividing by 8.

+100 To myself.

 

[Evian]

Compare immersion

 

[CAMAROBOY69]

Not sure if this was posted yet but its a GT5 VS Forza 4 video and for once Forza 4 won in EVERY single comparison. Both still great games and I play them both but at this point its safe to say Forza 4 is taking the lead. Especially with the audio, fully detailed interiors in ALL cars, and graphics.

The part that made me laugh the hardest was when they compared the Bugatti interiors between the 2 games.

http://www.gametrailers.com/video/forza-4-forza-motorsport/722163

 

[JDMKING13]

Compare immersion

FM still looks cartoonish even with the graphic upgrade. It's funny how you guys make these comparison also lets use a standard car.

What I'm seeing in most of this thread is there are few solid defenses left for GT5. I understand some of you just love PD's modelling of the Nurburgring and weather and time change. Certainly if FM4 is arguably equal in graphics and physics, and superior in sound, AI, on and offline play, community, livery design, leaderboards, tuning and economy . . . isn't criticizing it's modelling of the ring a bit short-sighted? I simply can't get past GT5's horrible AI, pop up shadows, broken economy, horrible level progression and unfinished car models . . . the only redeeming quality is the physics and driving . . . everything else feels broken/patched/ignored. It used to be excusable when the competition wasn't even on the same playing field, but those days are from decades past. These GT5 updates feel like life support for the dying king. What? Now there is a bug with saving mid-race? When will it end? For lots of us the beginning of the end was Oct. 11, 2011. PD seriously needs to get it's act together . . .

When is the last time you played GT5?

 

[prymet1me]

Man I thought I had a rant but Luminis got crunk lol.

Sorry JDM, but the GT5 talking points compared to FM4 are getting smaller and smaller.

 

[Luminis]

Man I thought I had a rant but Luminis got crunk lol.

I just got fed up with reading the same kind of comment about people 'judging' the physics based on a video alone... Must have some sort of super power that I don't know a thing about, something like a "Youtube to Mind" thing.

The part that made me laugh the hardest was when they compared the Bugatti interiors between the 2 games.

http://www.gametrailers.com/video/forza-4-forza-motorsport/722163

More shocking than the difference between the cockkpits (that's expected), in my opinion, was the sound of the 330 P4... Now, that's what I call a day and night difference.

 

[JDMKING13]

Man I thought I had a rant but Luminis got crunk lol.

Sorry JDM, but the GT5 talking points compared to FM4 are getting smaller and smaller.

Honestly man It's really no point into debating anymore, they both are good games in the end, and nobody is going to ever change their mind on which game is better because it's all up to one person opinion.

 

[CAMAROBOY69]

I just got fed up with reading the same kind of comment about people 'judging' the physics based on a video alone... Must have some sort of super power that I don't know a thing about, something like a "Youtube to Mind" thing.



More shocking than the difference between the cockkpits (that's expected), in my opinion, was the sound of the 330 P4... Now, that's what I call a day and night difference.

The audio between F4 and GT5 is not even comparable. Even most of the F3 cars already sounded better than GT5 but now the audio between F4 and GT5 is not even in the same league at all. The F4 audio is just insane especially with a full exhaust upgrade and full weight reduction. Yes weight reduction in F4 does make the cars louder on the inside view. 👍

 

[MikeK]

What I'm seeing in most of this thread is there are few solid defenses left for GT5. I understand some of you just love PD's modelling of the Nurburgring and weather and time change. Certainly if FM4 is arguably equal in graphics and physics, and superior in sound, AI, on and offline play, community, livery design, leaderboards, tuning and economy . . . isn't criticizing it's modelling of the ring a bit short-sighted? I simply can't get past GT5's horrible AI, pop up shadows, broken economy, horrible level progression and unfinished car models . . . the only redeeming quality is the physics and driving . . . everything else feels broken/patched/ignored. It used to be excusable when the competition wasn't even on the same playing field, but those days are from decades past. These GT5 updates feel like life support for the dying king. What? Now there is a bug with saving mid-race? When will it end? For lots of us the beginning of the end was Oct. 11, 2011. PD seriously needs to get it's act together . . .

Excellent post. I really like GT5, but I LOVE Forza 4. It feels like PD just got too ambitious in their goals and a lot things fell through the cracks as a result.

Turn 10, OTOH, feels like they really thought things through and delivered on very concise goals. They made a lot of right decisions.

 

[prymet1me]

Honestly man It's really no point into debating anymore, they both are good games in the end, and nobody is going to ever change their mind on which game is better because it's all up to one person opinion.

I am losing respect for "opinions" from people that havent even played the game. Even worse, the ones that dont even own an xbox. Posting negative things when you are in that situation reads like their feelings are hurt by what PD gave them and seeing the new kid actually come out swinging.

Glad I own a ps3 and an xbox and have played HOURS of GT5 to have good reasoning for my disappointment of it. I am also glad the game actually came out because I honestly think it gave more fuel to T10 because unlike PD they actually acknowledge the competition and take criticism from the community. I also appreciate that they actually come out and said certain things were left out of the game like weather to release a stable, consistent and quality game on time.

 

[Bogie 19th]

does this not look like reality to you?

Nope.

Vaxtxx - Dude you just backed me up. Deep forest raceway looks great, way better than any Forza track. Look at the colours and the lighting, it looks real.

Actually, it doesn't. I looks pretty bland actually. That is the case for most of our tracks in GT5 though.

Obviously the cockpit view is a blank one, point taken but that's only because GT has 1000 cars so they couldn't do all the interiors.

That is an epic fail of the utmost proportions.

Skip to about 2.40 in that video and from chase cam the Veyron looks better than Forza 4 and it's a semi standard car!

Nope, not even close.

If gtplanet was not vocal after GT5's release there will be no spec 2

Well, Suzuka does, Fuji does, Le Mans does, High Speed Ring does, Eiger does, Toskana does, Tsukuba does, Daytona does, Indy does, Chamonix is also on the same level, I would also say Rome, Madrid and London are on the same level.

On the same level as GT4 maybe. Not FM level, that is for sure.

Between GT5 and FM4, i think we can all agree GT5 is way better/real.

Nope, we sure don't all agree on that.

Texture quality, details, polycount, accuracy etc. have nothing to do with a opinion.

Indeed. Which is why it's known that the GT5 tracks lack most of that.

I've yet to see a single FM4 screenshot that really stood out for me, or where I thought "wow, that looks real", except for a few Autovista shots.

GT5 indeed looked better than FM3 in photo shots. FM4 however, destroys GT5 in photo shots now.

I am still looking for a FM4 gameplay shot I could recreate in GT5, but all I found so far was a C63 on the Nürburgring and I don't want a new "GT5 always looks better on the 'ring but only there" argument.

I am still looking for a GT5 game play shot that I could recreate in FM4, but GT5 falls behind there.

Compare immersion

Oh snap! 👍👍

FM still looks cartoonish even with the graphic upgrade. It's funny how you guys make these comparison also lets use a standard car.

 

[mr_VOLCANO]

Trying too sound like a fanboy Bogie?

 

[JDMKING13]

GT5 indeed looked better than FM3 in photo shots. FM4 however, destroys GT5 in photo shots now.



I am still looking for a GT5 game play shot that I could recreate in FM4, but GT5 falls behind there.



Oh snap! 👍👍

Bogie please stop man FM4 destroys GT5 in photomode FM4 photo mode is basic as they come and the game during game play still looks a it cartoonish I have seen a lot of FM4 pictures and they do not look good as GT5 pictures. Also FM4 needs more photo locations.

 

[Bogie 19th]

Trying too sound like a fanboy Bogie?

I was mocking them

Bogie please stop man FM4 destroys GT5 in photomode FM4 photo mode is basic as they come and the game during game play still looks a it cartoonish I have seen a lot of FM4 pictures and they do not look good as GT5 pictures. Also FM4 needs more photo locations.

Ok, surrrrre. wink wink.

 

[Northstar]

Bogie please stop man FM4 destroys GT5 in photomode FM4 photo mode is basic as they come and the game during game play still looks a it cartoonish I have seen a lot of FM4 pictures and they do not look good as GT5 pictures.

Have to agree with this(except the cartoonish part).

Until T10 can have a bucketload of available adjustments and a way to export an image with minimal compression or a non 24MB file size for no-compression pics GT5 will be ahead in the photomode dept(Not that FM4's sucks, but it's nowhere near as good as GT5).

 

[Bogie 19th]

I have to disagree with Justin, but that's ok...not everyone will agree. Forza has not only the higher resolution and better quality shots, but their photo mode (and this isn't even talking Autovista...which itself destroys GT5 quality) allows you to take photos in more areas at any time.

When is the last time you could just pause any race in GT5 and take a photo shot?

Yeah, no doubt with Autovista photo mode, home space photo mode, any time photo taking topped with Big Shots, GT5 really doesn't hold a candle.

 

[JDMKING13]

Have to agree with this(except the cartoonish part).

Until T10 can have a bucketload of available adjustments and a way to export an image with minimal compression or a non 24MB file size for no-compression pics GT5 will be ahead in the photomode dept(Not that FM4's sucks, but it's nowhere near as good as GT5).

No doubt, but the pictures you take during game play look funny to me there is something wrong with the lighting. FM4 still looks alot better than 3 though. The auto vista shots are pretty good though.

 

[Bogie 19th]

Maybe with Spec 3.0, GT will improve their photo output to match Forza 4's.

 

[CAMAROBOY69]

I have to disagree with Justin, but that's ok...not everyone will agree. Forza has not only the higher resolution and better quality shots, but their photo mode (and this isn't even talking Autovista...which itself destroys GT5 quality) allows you to take photos in more areas at any time.

When is the last time you could just pause any race in GT5 and take a photo shot?

Yeah, no doubt with Autovista photo mode, home space photo mode, any time photo taking topped with Big Shots, GT5 really doesn't hold a candle.

Exactly. Most people dont even know about the home space photo mode. The layout is very similar to the GT5 phot travel. However, I dont know if there is a way to move our car around in F4 in the home space photo mode.

Once more and more people figure out about the "Home Space" mode in F4, then we will see a LOT more awesome pics from F4.

 

[Bogie 19th]

I don't think you can move the car though, I think it's static. You can only move the camera around the car.

 

[azrael1965]

What I'm seeing in most of this thread is there are few solid defenses left for GT5. I understand some of you just love PD's modelling of the Nurburgring and weather and time change. Certainly if FM4 is arguably equal in graphics and physics, and superior in sound, AI, on and offline play, community, livery design, leaderboards, tuning and economy . . . isn't criticizing it's modelling of the ring a bit short-sighted? .

In the end you prefer Forza 4 because they did more things right for you. So for me they didn't, what does supposed superiority in sound, AI, on and offline play do for me, if what i enjoy most is hotlapping on the Nordschleife. So if someone criticizes something which is not important to YOU, he is shortsighted? For me someone who critcizes AI and Sound is short-sighted. For me that is not that important. In the end ist still depends on personal preferences. In my eyes a proper Nordschleife is the supreme diszipline of sim racing. It is by far the longest track to recreate and nearly every major sim has tried it. From Papyrus(Grand Prix Legends) ,Simbin (Gt-R Evolution), PD(GT-Series), Turn 10 (Forza), Bizarre Creations (PGR), Slightly Mad Studios (Shift) have all tried to recreate it. There are even Fan Mods for PC Sims like rfactor. Ask iracing if they ever will have the resources laserscan this Behemoth of a track. (The moment there is a Nordschleife for iracing, i will their most loyal customer.)
So it just asks to compare the skill and commitment of the best racing game Development Studios in the world by judging the results. And in the end some were more successful and other less. But if Forza 4 wants to be the king of sim racers, it just can't fail in this diszipline, because it's by far the hardest one at track recreation because of its gigantic size. Sure Forza has the better Laguna Seca, but the Ring is 5,5 times its size.,even more if including the F1 circuit! Calculate for yourself how many times of area is covered. In a sim racer you don't only have to simulate the cars but the tracks as well. And the Forza 3&4 Nordschleife is a big failure. Intentional or not.

 

[RWB1213]

In the end you prefer Forza 4 because they did more things right for you. So for me they didn't, what does supposed superiority in sound, AI, on and offline play do for me, if what i enjoy most is hotlapping on the Nordschleife. So if someone criticizes something which is not important to YOU, he is shortsighted? For me someone who critcizes AI and Sound is short-sighted. For me that is not that important. In the end ist still depends on personal preferences. In my eyes a proper Nordschleife is the supreme diszipline of sim racing. It is by far the longest track to recreate and nearly every major sim has tried it. From Simbin (Gt-R Evolution), PD(GT-Series), Turn 10 (Forza), Bizarre Creations (PGR), Slightly Mad Studios (Shift) have all tried to recreate it. There are even Fan Mods for PC Sims like rfactor. Ask iracing if they ever will have the resources laserscan this Behemoth of a track. (The moment there is a Nordschleife for iracing, i will their most loyal customer.)
So it just asks to compare the skill and commitment of the Develeopment Studios by judging the results. And in the end some were more successful and other less. But if Forza 4 wants to be the king of sim racers, it just can't fail in this diszipline, because it's by far the hardest one at track recreation because of its gigantic size. Sure Forza has the better Laguna Seca, but the Ring is 5,5 times its size!! In a sim racer you don't only have to simulate the cars but the tracks as well. And the Forza 3&4 Nordschleife is a big failure. Intentional or not.

I stand by my statement that comparing the two titles based on solely hotlapping at the ring is short-sighted, and I think most here would agree (their opinions of course.) If that is all you expect out of GT5 then have at it.

I too enjoy hotlapping . . . with leaderboards and rival ghosts. Just my thing.

 

[II IVORBIGUN II]

Recieved FM4 today and all I can say is this is easily the best racing game i've ever played. What really makes FM4 such a good game is the abundance of leaderboards. You not only have a leaderboard for each class on every track but you have an abundance of Rivals mode leaderboards including the reasonably priced car on the TGTT. Just to finish this off you also have club leaderboards.

At the moment im addicted to hotlapping on the TGTT and I ran more laps around this track in just 1hr of gameplay on FM4 than I did in the entire time I played GT5. Simple reason is again leaderboards.

When you play FM4 you realise just how old and stale the gameplay is on GT5 because the online aspect of FM4 is just miles ahead of GT5.

 

[azrael1965]

I stand by my statement that comparing the two titles based on solely hotlapping at the ring is short-sighted, and I think most here would agree (their opinions of course.) If that is all you expect out of GT5 then have at it.

I too enjoy hotlapping . . . with leaderboards and rival ghosts. Just my thing.

So you are hoping that the majority of opinions of others to support your claim? Most here of what? People reading this threat? People on GTplanet? People on Forzaplanet? If i make a claim i wouldn't care about what other people think.
Anyway i can just say: Either do it right or don't do it at all. Better try next time Turn 10. If you try do something , so many studios have done before, prepare to face the comparison.
Of course i will be hotlapping in Forza 3 too, but i will stay away from the Nordschleife. It just vaguely resembles the original. Of course if you don't know the original you wouldn't care.

 

[Bogie 19th]

Indeed. And hopefully PD learns from all their really bad mistakes and inaccuracies in GT5 and makes sure that GT6 makes up for it. Do it right or don't do it at all. Hello cardboard

 

[Minty]

Anyway i can just say: Either do it right or don't do it at all.

There goes 80% of GT5's car list. As well as half of the other features.

Of course i will be hotlapping in Forza 3 too, but i will stay away from the Nordschleife. It just vaguely resembles the original. Of course if you don't know the original you wouldn't care.

Who said they don't care? It's just that some people(see: You) are making way too big a deal out of what is just one track, and despite it's inaccuracies, is still fun.