FM Vs GT - Discussion Thread (read the first post before you post)

[Patrick]

Wait, you played GT5 with an XBOX 360 wheel? How?

The Fanatec CSR works for Xbox and PS3.

 

[Roger the Horse]

The Fanatec CSR works for Xbox and PS3.

When I heard "made for Forza" I assumed that that meant the official XBOX 360 wheel because when that came out it was always being advertised as being specially designed to be used with Forza. My mistake. Sorry.

 

[C_Raccoon23]

I try to play FM4 but the wheel feedback is so damn weird. I just dont get how the wheel was made for FM but it feels better with GT5. The only thing I like FM4 does is simulate the tire grip sensation it is very good. Other than that GT5 feels better and natural to me. Also whats up with the engine rumble in FM4? GT5 has got great engine rumble after you turn off the ABS on the CSR. The wheel feels so dead while i play FM4 now I just don't get it. I love the customization but the driving is not doing it for me.

What settings do you use because GT5 and FM4 both feel good to me. I still haven't decided which I like best.

Here are the settings I use on my wheel in case you would like to try them:

SEN: 900
FF: 100
SHO: 100
DRI: 3
ABS: 65
LIN: 0
SPR: 0

 

[JDMKING13]

What settings do you use because GT5 and FM4 both feel good to me. I still haven't decided which I like best.

Here are the settings I use on my wheel in case you would like to try them:

SEN: 100
FF: 100
SHO: 100
DRI: 3
ABS: 65
LIN: 0
SPR: 0

IN GT5 I use
GT5(FF 6)
SEN 0
FF 100
SHO 50 (effect engine rumble)
DPR -3
SPR -3
ABS off(this gives the wheel the engine rumble effect amazing)
LIN 0
DRIFT 0

FM4
SEN 900
FF 100
SHO 100
DPR 0
SPR 0
ABS 70
Lin 0
Drift 0

I think you need to try my settings for GT5 while the ABS affect will not be there the engine rumble will make GT5 come alive for you. also I think you have the DPR and SPR way to high affecting the feeling you get from bumps elevation changes weight transfer etc. Let me know how it goes. I will try yours also for FM4. 👍 Edit Im sorry I use Sen 0 because GT5 already has 900 steering.

 

[C_Raccoon23]

So I just did a few laps at Suzuka in the premium Skyline R34 (all aids off, including ABS) on GT5. I must admit, jdmking, I like your wheel settings for GT5 better than mine. The engine rumble effect given off by the wheel increases the immersion and makes driving more exciting. Honestly did not know you could make the wheel do that. 👍

I will do the same car/track combo in Forza and compare our wheel settings later.

 

[JDMKING13]

So I just did a few laps at Suzuka in the premium Skyline R34 (all aids off, including ABS) on GT5. I must admit, jdmking, I like your wheel settings for GT5 better than mine. The engine rumble effect given off by the wheel increases the immersion and makes driving more exciting. Honestly did not know you could make the wheel do that. 👍

I will do the same car/track combo in Forza and compare our wheel settings later.

No doubt man. 👍 make sure the sen is off and the dpr and spr are -3 this wheel bring out the feeling of the wheel. FM4 tire physics are just to damn good which is what I love but when it comes to elevation changes bumps weight transfer engine rumble and driving feel I get better sensation with GT5. As soon as my bro gets off the Xbox I will try your settings glad to see you playing with ABS off. In my league the GTR34 comes with a 3/1 BB see how that works for you.

 

[another_jakhole]

I wonder how many people will/won't be able to find this thread thinking it's in the GT section and not wanting to do a comprehensive search.
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=256245

Yeah, right.

If you want to see how the real debate between *fans* of both games looks like, I humbly propose you the probably most legendary "VS" thread on that subject ever conceived:

Official [Forza 4] vs Gran Turismo 5 Comparison Thread of John, Chapter 11, Verse 35™
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=375000

From NeoGaf forums.

Dozens and dozens of members were banned during conception of that thread, hundreds of members were cross-ignored and the level of lunacy that spreads through that almost 3-years ongoing festival of madness is beyond explainable.

It started as "GT5rologue VS Forza 3" thread back in 2009 and it developed to current state in the past 1100 days (as today it have 16428 replies).

If you are willing to spend few days in reading one of the craziest debates that ever graced the both console and GT/Forza fanboyism at one place, you will not regret it. It have drama, soup-opera developments, quoting insane level of interweb informations, comparison of crazy things, beautiful .gifs of both games and rare moments of sanity and calmness.

I sincerely recommend reading that thread to everybody. One day it will have legendary status in the history of internet, communities, driving games genre and console-wars as such. Unique showcase of why your Ghandi-type call for sanity could never prevail

It'll be like reading a book. I got it bookmarked now.

 

[marchi]

If you were speaking of using a wheel on both games, I wouldn't really contest that, but I find when stuck with a pad, FM4 definitely excels. I actually feel when my cars are overstepping the boundaries of their grip, on either end, whereas GT5 gives very little feedback. I want to say it wasn't always this mute though; I think one of the more recent updates did it

Completely agree with this. One thing that frustrates me in GT5 with the controller is that there seemingly no adhesion feedback to the controller. You're either fine or the arse is all over the place and you have to counter steer to make up for it. Like lag in a turbo. Nothing, nothing, nothing.... bang.

There really should be more of a rumble when you're pushing the tyres to the maximum adhesion level.

 

[mralexf1]

I honestly think that GT5 is a better game overall. Let me explain this, it's true that FM4 has a better car list, much more complete, less repetitive and way more modern, but physics in GT5, except for crashes, are better than Forza's. I'd love to drive a Porsche in Forza Motorsport, as I've driven a GT3 RS before and it feels soooo "grippy". It would be interesting to compare it and I'll see if I can save some money to buy that Porsche Pack.

I wonder if Yamauchi is trying something very impressive for GT6... It would be a dream to have Sony paying for Porsche license and finally having those super cars in our favourite game

 

[TokoTurismo]

I wonder if Yamauchi is trying something very impressive for GT6... It would be a dream to have Sony paying for Porsche license and finally having those super cars in our favourite game

I agree. It would make perfect sense to have Porsche in GT6 all together. Like EA charging either PD or Sony a lot of money, but with our help we can shoot that money right back up if we found out Porsche was coming to GT6.

GT6 would sell like hotcakes.

 

[phillgt2002]

10 Years guys.. 10 years

 

[Scaff]

but physics in GT5, except for crashes, are better than Forza's.

And how are they 'better'?

 

[soheibV12]

And how are they 'better'?

Oh, again?

 

[Bopop4]

I've played both Forza 4 and GT5.
I can honestly say that I much prefer Forza.
Forza feels much better from a driving standpoint, the suspension feel and steering feel much better than GT5. In GT5 everything feels like a kart, way too reponsive.
In the sound department there is no question that Forza is better. Compare LFAs...
For graphics I do like GT5 but in Forza there is a more grainy and rough feel that I like.
It's like comparing GT3 to GT4, GT4 does have better graphics, but GT3s graphics work much better.
And the painting in Forza is a no brainer again.

I have a G25, but I would still like Forza better than GT5, even though I have a wheel for GT5 but not for Forza.

 

[Scaff]

Oh, again?

From the opening post of this thread:

The first and most obvious regards the AUP. Every single post will be expected to follow the AUP, any AUP violations will result in action being taken by the staff.

However I want to clarify a few points in this regard:

• Opinion is not fact - don't present it as such
• Argue the point don't attack the person making it
• The term 'fanboy' (including any and all derivations) is banned
• Accusations of 'Troll' simply because you don't like what someone says are also out
• If you make a claim back it up with sources - fail to do so and you will be asked to provide them
• Don't just post up pictures and video without any form of meaningful comment. This is a discussion thread not a picture/video gallery. Offending posts will be deleted on sight.

First and Fifth points, so yes a claim is expected to be backed up. Now would you like me to re-ask the question you never bother to answer in regard to all you own nonsense in this thread?

OK:

but with the torque steer iv done, gt5 goes to one
GT5:1

Please answer this:

Umm - what have you shown to illustrate torque steer is even modelled in GT5? I think you must be using torque steer to describe something else.

You want that i do the same in gt5 with your videos?

Oh yes please - in particular the first one of the Cobra SC.

And that only with old car which loose grip in every game to illustrate their low grip but all fast cars back tractions will loose controle over 200 km/h

Hold on a second you said:

Now i want to talk about grip, grip is a very bad thing in forza 4 because all cars can turn (without aids) like a formula and don't lost grip to drift

Notice the word in bold. You said all cars and now all of a sudden the goal posts move, oh well no bother at all, all of the following are cars of less that seven years old with the majority from the last two model years.

A range of oversteer situations, from power over to inertia, some with control retained and some with control lost, a variety of car sizes and drivetrain layouts and some donuts for fun as well.

You still have to demonstrate torque steer from a standing start in GT and also answer the direct contradiction you made with regard to FM4 grip levels and also explain why that video shows the exact opposite of your claim.

 

[soheibV12]

We have allready talked about this, torque steer with the cobra hasn't worked. and what, GT5 is not a simulation game? Have you heard of data logger simulation on GT5? In forza they can't because of the bad quality of the track and simulation, why all peoples says that cars in fm have too grip? You think they don't have any experience with reality? And finally why not a fm academy?

 

[thelvynau]

We have allready talked about this, torque steer with the cobra hasn't worked. and what, GT5 is not a simulation game? Have you heard of data logger simulation on GT5? In forza they can't because of the bad quality of the track and simulation, why all peoples says that cars in fm have too grip? You think they don't have any experience with reality? And finally why not a fm academy?

No forza academy because the choose not to.

And I don't see how gt academy shows the physics are better?

Hell they could make a nfs academy and it would still have nothing to do with physics.

 

[Terronium-12]

We have allready talked about this, torque steer with the cobra hasn't worked. and what, GT5 is not a simulation game? Have you heard of data logger simulation on GT5? In forza they can't because of the bad quality of the track and simulation, why all peoples says that cars in fm have too grip? You think they don't have any experience with reality? And finally why not a fm academy?

Still going with the nonsense? Scaff may have the patience to deal with you but I don't, so you have one of two choices:

1. Back up your ridiculous claims with hard evidence and not garbage you're pulling from your rear.

2. You stop posting in this thread.

 

[Tornado]

In forza they can't because of the bad quality of the track and simulation, why all peoples says that cars in fm have too grip?

I have to imagine it probably has something to do with them not having any idea what they are talking about.


For example, when someone says "all cars can turn (without aids) like a formula and don't lost grip to drift," and then just kinda ignores when someone makes a video pointing out how absurd of a statement that is, it kind of implies that being the case.

 

[FuzzyFassbender]

still going with the nonsense? Scaff may have the patience to deal with you but i don't, so you have one of two choices:

1. Back up your ridiculous claims with hard evidence and not garbage you're pulling from your rear.

2. You stop posting in this thread.

+2

 

[Scaff]

We have allready talked about this, torque steer with the cobra hasn't worked. and what, GT5 is not a simulation game?

We have. Yet you continue to claim that GT5 can do it. Do that mean GT5 is not a sim? I've not claimed anything of the sort. Does it mean that GT5 can't simulate this? Yes it does, which kind of undermines you argument that GT5 does everything FM4 does and more.

Have you heard of data logger simulation on GT5?

Yes I have heard of it in GT5, and its not yet been released

In forza they can't because of the bad quality of the track and simulation,

Really? Can you provide proof for this claim? Oh BTW the AUP would like to remind you:

You will not knowingly post any material that is false, misleading, or inaccurate.

why all peoples says that cars in fm have too grip? You think they don't have any experience with reality?

They don't.....

http://www.virtualr.net/tim-schrick-tries-forza-motorsport-4

....oh look the M5 in FM4 has a bit to little grip, so says a racing driver.

You see the evidence from FM4 of "turn (without aids) like a formula and don't lost grip to drift" doesn't exist (but you like to ignore that) and the evidence from race drivers doesn't exist.

The person whose experience I question is yours, the claims you made with regard to your own experience still remain very much unanswered.

And finally why not a fm academy?

What does the GTA have to do with physics accuracy within GT5? Download a few of the replays of the top times and then post them up here with a detailed breakdown of the physics.

The GTA is an advertising strategy, nothing more and nothing less and it sure as hell doesn't prove anything with regards to physics accuracy at all.


Your period of grace here with regard to wild and unsubstantiated claims is over, either start backing this up or cease posting.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Oh, again?

If the guy didn't state something as a fact (which is against AUP in some respects) then Scaff woulndn't keep posing the question.

I'd really like to see people answer that question without a subjective point of view and one that pertains to facts. Gee what a concept!

 

[thelvynau]

I still want to know what gta has to do with physics as I said what if ea decided to make a nfs academy would you conclude nfs automatically must have better physics?

 

[Goshin2568]

I define satisfying physics as physics that give you a very direct, instinctive feedback. Most racing games don't have that, but GT always has. You can just feel what the car is doing, even through a controller. Race 07 is the other good example I can think of of a game that has physics like that.

Just tossing my two cents in, I really don't think physics has too much to do with feedback. Plug up a old Logitech DFP wheel to iRacing and you will get fantastic physics, but terrible feedback. On the other hand, a CSR elite feels very good on F1 2011, but it's widely known that game doesn't exactly have cutting edge physics.

Physics deals more with whether or not the car acts the way it would in real life in certain situations, and how realistically outside forces affect the car. Whether that is being accurately conveyed back to the player has no effect on the ability of the simulation to accurately represent physics.

 

[HAL20XX]

What does the GTA have to do with physics accuracy within GT5? Download a few of the replays of the top times and then post them up here with a detailed breakdown of the physics.

The GTA is an advertising strategy, nothing more and nothing less and it sure as hell doesn't prove anything with regards to physics accuracy at all.

Why is it that so many people don't understand this? Even in terms of racing, all it does is qualify a handful of people to train to become racecar drivers in real life.

 

[dylansan]

The only reason GT Academy can be used at all to determine driver skill is because the ability to practice and learn work just as well in Gran Turismo as in real life. Someone who is able to get a good time in GT5 has dedicated themselves to learning to drive well in the game. If the game is a completely terrible simulation and nothing like real life, he will be pretty bad on the racetrack, but he will still be able to learn to drive using the same techniques he used in the game. In other words, no matter how bad the physics were, Someone capable of driving well in the game is also capable of driving well in real life, with practice.

 

[FyreandIce]

The only reason GT Academy can be used at all to determine driver skill is because the ability to practice and learn work just as well in Gran Turismo as in real life. Someone who is able to get a good time in GT5 has dedicated themselves to learning to drive well in the game. If the game is a completely terrible simulation and nothing like real life, he will be pretty bad on the racetrack, but he will still be able to learn to drive using the same techniques he used in the game. In other words, no matter how bad the physics were, Someone capable of driving well in the game is also capable of driving well in real life, with practice.

Anyone got the link to the news article where some extremely avid GT5 player tried to do a flying lap at the nurburgring on his first go because he thought he knew everything thanks to GT5 and ended up rolling multiple times?

I'm sorry, but if you want to learn real car dynamics, GT5 is about as useful as NFS.

That said, even FM4 is pretty useless compared to sims like iRacing.

On another note, I always find it funny when someone who plays nothing but GT5 tries Forza for the first time. They get into a high powered rear drive car and the first thing they do is spin out on the strait because they have no understanding of torque steer. Of course they than try to claim it's because the physics are bad

 

[HAL20XX]

In other words, no matter how bad the physics were, Someone capable of driving well in the game is also capable of driving well in real life, with practice.

And that's exactly it. It's simply a litmus test with millions of marketing dollars behind it. Somehow people take this to be a testament of how accurate GT is.

 

[Da-Bomber]

Anyone got the link to the news article where some extremely avid GT5 player tried to do a flying lap at the nurburgring on his first go because he thought he knew everything thanks to GT5 and ended up rolling multiple times?

I'm sorry, but if you want to learn real car dynamics, GT5 is about as useful as NFS.

That said, even FM4 is pretty useless compared to sims like iRacing.

On another note, I always find it funny when someone who plays nothing but GT5 tries Forza for the first time. They get into a high powered rear drive car and the first thing they do is spin out on the strait because they have no understanding of torque steer. Of course they than try to claim it's because the physics are bad

Loved it when this happened to my cousins.

 

[GTP_Plato]

At the moment FM4 is pretty useless to some wheel users including myself, in fairness wheel support since day 1 for this game has been terrible.

I thought I would go back and have a go at Forza, I had not played it since the 2nd week of release due to the early issues they had with wheel support (non linear and sim steering assist).

Very disappointed to come back to the game after not playing for a long time to find out Microsofts latest dashboard update has given wheel users bigger problems (FFB issues, notchy steering)

My opinion on this GT vs FM debate is that controller users don't take into account that most wheel users will back GT (and PS3 in general) because the wheel support is superior, Forza 4 has had wheel problems since release and nothing looks as though it will change. Does anyone have a good reason why using a wheel on FM4 is worse than FM3? I would like to know what went wrong.

I have been playing the forza series since the start of FM2, I am a fan of both games before people start saying the F word