- 4,122
- United States
Yes.
FM Vs GT - Discussion Thread (read the first post before you post)
- Thread starter Scaff
- 8,743 comments
- 535,795 views
Yes.
- 178
Alright scaff, then you're just 1 year older than I am, congrats about that.
I almost forgot that they let people drive on public roads in USA when the person reaches age of 16, in here the age is 18.
I am still amazed, if you know so much about the cars, actually, then how on earth can you even imagine Forza being a simulator ? Seriously.
Besides, AKK Motorsport is not just a "chop club" but a Union which works under the influence of FIA, it is up to us to make races possible all over the Finland, and we are the people who gives the FIA racing licenses in here aswell.
(to be honest, I wouldnt give that license to anyone who claims FM4 being realistic, or any game for that matter)
I could link my "web-garage" to show my cars I've raced with over the years and some of the cars I've restorated over the years, that '60 Vette is one of those.
3 more weeks and I'm once again at the Nordscheife, like been once a year within past 7 years.
But lets speak about the games now, seriously.
Both games are excellent, fun, relaxing but either is truly a simulator, especially when 4-7 year old kids can play both and become guite good in both, why I personally think FM4 lacks about the realism are simple, brakes, fuel, PI, handling, sounds are mainly done all wrong, when actually comparing to real cars.
but argueing about the same things over and over again reminds me about my youngest son and his Beyblade vs Pokemon talk, everyone has his own personal favourite, and I really doubt there is many objective person at this thread, as I am.
My copy of FM4 shouldnt be any more different than anyone elses, it is the LCE edition and I do have all the DLC for the FM4, because I love the game itself, but I kinda hate it how it spoils the realism in it.
But in the end, it is only players that will win, no matter which game you choose, companies behind both titles will make the next ones even better.
And that is what I call progress.
I almost forgot that they let people drive on public roads in USA when the person reaches age of 16, in here the age is 18.
I am still amazed, if you know so much about the cars, actually, then how on earth can you even imagine Forza being a simulator ? Seriously.
Besides, AKK Motorsport is not just a "chop club" but a Union which works under the influence of FIA, it is up to us to make races possible all over the Finland, and we are the people who gives the FIA racing licenses in here aswell.
(to be honest, I wouldnt give that license to anyone who claims FM4 being realistic, or any game for that matter)
I could link my "web-garage" to show my cars I've raced with over the years and some of the cars I've restorated over the years, that '60 Vette is one of those.
3 more weeks and I'm once again at the Nordscheife, like been once a year within past 7 years.
But lets speak about the games now, seriously.
Both games are excellent, fun, relaxing but either is truly a simulator, especially when 4-7 year old kids can play both and become guite good in both, why I personally think FM4 lacks about the realism are simple, brakes, fuel, PI, handling, sounds are mainly done all wrong, when actually comparing to real cars.
but argueing about the same things over and over again reminds me about my youngest son and his Beyblade vs Pokemon talk, everyone has his own personal favourite, and I really doubt there is many objective person at this thread, as I am.
My copy of FM4 shouldnt be any more different than anyone elses, it is the LCE edition and I do have all the DLC for the FM4, because I love the game itself, but I kinda hate it how it spoils the realism in it.
But in the end, it is only players that will win, no matter which game you choose, companies behind both titles will make the next ones even better.
And that is what I call progress.
Scaff
Moderator
- 29,452
- He/Him
- ScaffUK
First I'm not American, I'm British.
What I find a bit odd however is that your profile here on GT Planet shows your age as 30, not 40?
However its a bit strange because your youtube accounts has you down as being 27 and American.
Quite simply really, its because FM4 simulates the way a car behaves to at least an equal degree and in parts to a greater degree than other sims.
What I am more amazed about is that you seem to want to resort the same approach of 'Forza'a not a sim' (repeat to fade) rather than actually answer any questions your been asked.
I don't believe I implied it was a 'chop club' at all, so I'm not sure why you have said that.
I would also find it quite odd that anyone responsibly for licencing would act in such a flippant manner in regard to choice of sim (after all pretty much all teams use sims to one degree or another). I take it then you would deny multi WRC champion Seb Loeb a licence then given that he used GT4 to learn the Le Mans layout, or Richard Burns for his involvement in RBR (with the aim to make it the most realistic rally sim of its time), and what about Dan Wheldon and Dario Franchetti's involvement in Simraceways?
To be honest it would seem that its a good idea that you don't get to make this choice as the racing world would have been a lot poorer based on your standards.
We can do better than that, you see a 1960 Corvette is worthy of the need for proof of ownership, don't take it the wrong way its a pretty normal requirement for anyone claiming to own a car of this kind of vintage.
Please see here for details of what is required:
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=61433
No one is questing either being 100% accurate, yet you are still maintaining a quite clear bias in regard to one and avoiding answering questions you have been asked.
Your posts to date and your youtube channel don't strike me as the actions of someone who is objective by any stretch of the imagination.
Yet you are quite happy to constantly bang on about issues you seem in FM4 without any desire to actually discuss them or acknowledge that GT5 has issues?
Now are you going to answer any of the questions you have been asked, in particular the one regarding RWD torque steer from a standing start?
- 178
I am well aware of that somehow my different accounts have false information, like the Youtube channel, and this one, dont know why but cant do much about it.
What is that you want to know about the torgue steering ? It does work with the G27 Logitech pretty well in GT5.
How about you answer this one without any nonsense, please, if you can.
How come you can let the wheel / stick go while driving 200-300 km/h in Forza and the car goes straight line instead of changing direction ?
Scaff
Moderator
- 29,452
- He/Him
- ScaffUK
Well the info would be like that because the person who set-up the account put the data in, i.e. you.
The odd thing is that you only seem to be 40 here (and only since you came back in 2011), when you set the account up in 2007 you would have set that date of birth and as a result age.
Which would imply that you set-up your GTP account using false data.
Please describe exactly what happens as right now you are totally unique in this regard, it would also help if you gave your explanation for why this occurs in real life and its matching actions in GT5.
Watch the attitude, I've answered every question you have asked and I've done so politely. Right now your attitude is not a healthy one.
Now I've not tested this in either GT5 or FM4 so would not be able to give you a definitive answer (yet) with regard to that.
However in reality a range of things could happen depending on the car and track, ranging from nothing (the GT40 at Le Mans famously had so much front lift that a quarter lock of steering made no difference on the Mulsanne) to the car wandering off (normally as a result of camber on the road or surface issues sharp enough to cause high-speed damping steering deflections - low -speed damping would not result in wander - but you should be able to explain to everyone why).
Last edited:
- 178
Right, is this why my car start wandering even with speed of 60 km/h on a public road ? Ofcourse the layout of the road has effect on that, but car does it even the road is brand new, and this happens in real life.
in GT5 if you just let go the steering, the car will start wandering and ends up into a crash, unless you can react fast enough and correct the wandering.
So, the torgue steering, in FM4 it might be ablied when you grid start your car, but fades away when you're actually moving, while the GT5 (lets say you're right to suit your opinions better) doesnt do that when having a grid start but it works while moving.
I can see that you become guite offended way too easy, just because I think otherwise than you, dont make you anyway wiser than I am, pure simplicity.
But maybe that is the price for the person who has own "cult" at full strenght over the internet, no offense.
Scaff
Moderator
- 29,452
- He/Him
- ScaffUK
Public roads carry a heavy camber and are designed to pull the car off the road rather than into the path of oncoming traffic. The vast majority of race tracks are designed without camber. Something I would have thought you would be aware of?
I don't think you are actually taking about the same thing as I am, can you please define exactly what torque steer means to you, both from a standing start and when in motion.
I'm not offended at all, simply rather frustrated by your refusal to directly answer questions asked of you and your continued insistence on attacking me rather than answering the questions.
Oh and the info regarding your 1960 Corvette is not optional, please address the request.
- 178
How about this, you reveal your true identitety with pictures and I'll show you my projects I've been up with the AKK Motorsport, because if I'd be giving away my personal information to anyone who requests those under the nickname, I would be more than scammed already, why ? Because pictures of my cars includes license plates, family members, team members and all sort of personal information.
Share yours and I'll share mine.
- 4,122
- United States
@soheibV12
OMG I ADORE THOSE PHOTOS. They look so real, I can look at them all day, same with FM4's interiors, but I love GT5's interiors a lot more. But both games are great imo.
I like GT5s more because they actually model the textures.. Well Forza does to but GT does it to a bigger extreme.
Scaff
Moderator
- 29,452
- He/Him
- ScaffUK
- 4,122
- United States
Stop. You're making me cry.... In real life, when you go for a launch it feels like the car is gliding in the back (Kind of like lift off oversteer). Without your hands on the wheel the car will go into a certain direction which is the reason why you keep your hands on the wheel. Instead of GT5 actually having a physics model where you have to control launches(On the wheel it doesn't simulate and you are more than likely mistaking it for something else.) you can just stomp the living hell out of the gas pedal and can go straight down a course like LeMans or so when in Forza you have to manage and control the wheel spin while putting in input to the tires.. It is seen in the controller, and wheel. GT5.. Not even on both inputs.
Look at the input of the front tires.
No input
And also basically what you said is that PD made a completely different physics model for the pad...
- 178
Stop. You're making me cry.... In real life, when you go for a launch it feels like the car is gliding in the back (Kind of like lift off oversteer). Without your hands on the wheel the car will go into a certain direction which is the reason why you keep your hands on the wheel. Instead of GT5 actually having a physics model where you have to control launches(On the wheel it doesn't simulate and you are more than likely mistaking it for something else.) you can just stomp the living hell out of the gas pedal and can go straight down a course like LeMans or so when in Forza you have to manage and control the wheel spin while putting in input to the tires.. It is seen in the controller, and wheel. GT5.. Not even on both inputs.
Look at the input of the front tires.
No input
And also basically what you said is that PD made a completely different physics model for the pad...
Good videos there, and I do see your point, but I am sure that even you are well aware of that the FM4 has "hidden" aid whenever you use the controller, so in generally speaking even the FM4 has "different" physics dependind on are you having a controller or a wheelset, dont you agree ? The "hidden" aid has been discussed earlier, and cannot be just forgotten.
GT5 works in similar way, it is whole different experience with a H-shifter G27 Logitech wheel than with a DS3.
I remember it clearly how so many FM players claim that "GT5 doesnt even have a clutch" and they're right, so far if using only a controller.
- 4,122
- United States
"Simple brakes, Fuel, PI, Handling", "sounds are mainly done all wrong"
Excuse me but Forza doesn't use pure rubber tires without tread. In real life in certain race series the tires can last up to 1 1/2 to 2 hours. Yam believed in changing all of that because he knows everything about motorsports and he has created something so damn almighty that anything even compared to it can screw off
. Basically you're saying that everything is wrong with Forza and then you turn around and love it. Why the hell would you even say the sounds are mainly wrong when in GT5 most of the cars sound like Jet Turbines when over 60 MPH. My first time hearing a Supra in real life and my mind went back to Forza, Not to GT5 because most of the sounds don't even remotely sound like the cars they are resembling.- 178
- 4,122
- United States
The clutch is a button.. I know that it exists on a wheel and it could easily be added to the controller in a update. If those still do anything.
I do understand that Forza has a hidden aid and it isn't as extreme where the physics are eons off. You're just assuming. Oh Forza has a (Slight) steering assist so you might be wrong. If I still have to adjust the angle of the wheel while launching then it is still modeled to some degree. And even if it was completely off.. I'd rather have an attempt at it rather than a complete (I'm done)
- 178
"Simple brakes, Fuel, PI, Handling", "sounds are mainly done all wrong"
Excuse me but Forza doesn't use pure rubber tires without tread. In real life in certain race series the tires can last up to 1 1/2 to 2 hours. Yam believed in changing all of that because he knows everything about motorsports and he has created something so damn almighty that anything even compared to it can screw off
To the sound department, which is very interesting part of these games.
Real shocker is that some of the cars actually has the same base sounds, IF listened through identical hardware, but Forza aims more higher with these, making most of the sounds exaggarated.
For example, if you are driving at 40 - 60 km/h in real life, you WILL hear so much more but the engine only, which isnt the case in FM4, while in GT5 the car makes just more noises than just the engine, especially when driving from cockpit view.
While, I'm not sure did you know that T10 used recorded sounds from a Dynotests, and most cars they recorded were brought by helpful bunch of people who loaned their cars for this purpose, and at this very moment someone should ask "Did T10 bother to ask those people were their cars modded or not?"
To make it sound more simple, did they check were a Nova SS (for example) having a larger exhaust system than it should ? To make it more noisier.
As so many American Muscle cars goes around the public roads, only 5 to 10% of those are completely stock.
Besides, if the car is hand made (like the LF-A) there is no guarantee that every each car sounds exactly the same.
Not to mention the Ferrari 250GTO, which is so rare, and expensive I really doubt T10 bothered to pay insurances to get one for the dynostest recordind session, for example.
- 40,768
No, it absolutely positively does not do this. When in interior view, all GT5 does is muffle the exhaust sound, change the volume/spatial relationship of the wind buffeting and (for cars with an upgraded gearbox) add transmission whine. There is no transmission noise (besides the whine), there is no intake or other engine noises, there is no suspension noise. All you get on most cars is the exhaust, with some filtering applied and moved behind you; and the wind, with some filtering applied and moved in front of you.
When PD were going around recording their American Muscle sounds, did they check to see if the Chevrolet Corvette C5R they were recording actually had a 7 liter V8 in it or the 4.3 liter V6 from the Chevrolet Blazer that it sounded like up until a month ago (that many of the racing V8s of similar type still sound like)?
By the way, videos dating to GT2's development show that PD, at least in theory, record sounds the same way.
This is a non-argument. You are basically saying "Forza can't be accurate because for some cars that is impossible."
So how did PD record the Ford Mark IV, Jaguar XJ-13 or Ferrari P4, then?
Scaff
Moderator
- 29,452
- He/Him
- ScaffUK
Nothings showing at all, and could you please post any pictures in the thread I linked to.
- 4,122
- United States
Tornado , 👍 👍 👍
- 2,822
- Espoo
- GTP_Raitzi
General gaming press veterans Garnett Lee, Jeff Cannat, Arne Meyer and Jason Paul talk about how they feel about Forza 4 vs GT5 after GT5's 2.0 patch and also talk generally about driving sims and F4 porsche DLC. Note that Car talk starts around 1h 6min mark.
Weekend Confirmed 124:
http://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/cf.shacknews.com/podcast/wknd_confirmed_080312_124.mp3
Weekend Confirmed 124:
http://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/cf.shacknews.com/podcast/wknd_confirmed_080312_124.mp3
Last edited:
- 10,956
- Canada
Uh oh. Here we go again...
CorvetteGuy80
(Banned)
- 60
- United States
I'm hoping the ALMS doesn't have some exclusive BS contract with Forza.
MagpieRacer
Premium
- 17,313
- Wymondham, Norfolk
- Seagull_Racer
Not sure why it would be BS, not like anyone else is gonna sign a deal anytime ever.
McLaren
Premium
- 45,441
- Texas
Out of all the cars you try to use this argument on, you pick the one that has one of the most tuned & developed exhaust notes in the world & claim they all won't sound the same?
I mean, the argument alone is absolutely ridiculous, but the example is like a cherry on the top.
- 129
- Florida
Forza already has most cars from the ALMS series, so I wouldn't be surprised if there is some type of partnership going on between the two. Tracks like Lime Rock may be evident in the near future, but as far as exclusive contracts goes, Turn 10 has stated that they don't engage in that type of stuff since it's deemed unfair to gamers.
Why is everybody so quick to blame Turn 10 anyway?
Similar threads
