FM Vs GT - Discussion Thread (read the first post before you post)
- Thread starter Scaff
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- 5,767
- Anoka, MN
I think the biggest issue with Forza is still the lighting engine. It makes everything look so shiny, while at the same time throwing shadows everywhere.
I agree, look at this thread - https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=260116
The models placed into a realistic lighting environment. Now yes it's going to be a long time before we can have a game engine with such realistic lighting like that but it still shows that the problem with shiny, plastic cars isn't the model and all the lighting.
Hopefully if Forza 5 is on the next Xbox they can create a more realistic lighting engine and really allow those models to shine (not literally of course).
- 770
Apparently Gran Turismos engines sounds are "too accurate"...
BAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Yes, Forza does slightly embelish some car exhaust sounds but they actually sound like the car in real life. Same cannot be said of GT lol.
BAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Yes, Forza does slightly embelish some car exhaust sounds but they actually sound like the car in real life. Same cannot be said of GT lol.
- 7,601
- Exorcet
- OE Exorcet
I just find it interesting that something said a lot on GTP (that GT is the better sim, Forza the better game) seems totally backwards to me.
Forza is way more realistic, that's been covered in the other thread.
In terms of being a game, I don't really care much for Forza 4's career (I don't care much for career modes of any kind though). It just feels like a random series of unconnected events, and what would be the Forza equivalent to special events are throw in seemingly at random and are basically forced upon you. I get the feeling that they're their to break up monotony, but they are the most repetitive things in the game (how many times can bowling pins on TGTT be fun?). Now in GT, you typically enter an event and do all races for that event and then move on to another. In FM3, they had a calendar format that was like GT's, only you did not go to the next race in a series immediately, instead you did some filler races in between. I think both of those are better than the FM4 structure (and while FM4 does let you do away with the game's suggested path of progression and do things GT style, it pays you less credits for that. I do not understand why).
One other interesting thing is that while Forza is much more detailed when it comes to tuning, the lack of detuning options is a bit annoying. Maybe GT5's power limiter and ballast have spoiled me. I spent quite a few minutes trying to get one of my cars to exactly 800 PI. A power restrictor would have made it trivial. Also, that same car tuned for 700 PI won't allow me to cut any weight at all as the only weight reduction option puts it over 700. Where is the ballast? Forza also considers tuning sets up different from parts and basically puts them on opposite sides of the planet when it comes to menus. In GT, I can swtich out parts and change settings at the same time and even buy parts while I'm tuning. On the plus side, Forza allows you to remove everything and there is no engine wear to worry about, so I don't need to own 500 copies of the same car.
Overall Forza is better, especially if you want realistic driving. I do expect that once I get on XBL, Forza will be even stronger, but right now I kind of wish they would copy more of each others strong points.
Forza is way more realistic, that's been covered in the other thread.
In terms of being a game, I don't really care much for Forza 4's career (I don't care much for career modes of any kind though). It just feels like a random series of unconnected events, and what would be the Forza equivalent to special events are throw in seemingly at random and are basically forced upon you. I get the feeling that they're their to break up monotony, but they are the most repetitive things in the game (how many times can bowling pins on TGTT be fun?). Now in GT, you typically enter an event and do all races for that event and then move on to another. In FM3, they had a calendar format that was like GT's, only you did not go to the next race in a series immediately, instead you did some filler races in between. I think both of those are better than the FM4 structure (and while FM4 does let you do away with the game's suggested path of progression and do things GT style, it pays you less credits for that. I do not understand why).
One other interesting thing is that while Forza is much more detailed when it comes to tuning, the lack of detuning options is a bit annoying. Maybe GT5's power limiter and ballast have spoiled me. I spent quite a few minutes trying to get one of my cars to exactly 800 PI. A power restrictor would have made it trivial. Also, that same car tuned for 700 PI won't allow me to cut any weight at all as the only weight reduction option puts it over 700. Where is the ballast? Forza also considers tuning sets up different from parts and basically puts them on opposite sides of the planet when it comes to menus. In GT, I can swtich out parts and change settings at the same time and even buy parts while I'm tuning. On the plus side, Forza allows you to remove everything and there is no engine wear to worry about, so I don't need to own 500 copies of the same car.
Overall Forza is better, especially if you want realistic driving. I do expect that once I get on XBL, Forza will be even stronger, but right now I kind of wish they would copy more of each others strong points.
- 27,387
- Toronto
- NewAesthetic
- SlipZtrEm
Heh, strange, I just popped over to the other 'Planet to see how you were getting along with FM4 
I know it's potentially blasphemous to some from either camp, but I couldn't agree more with your last paragraph. Original or not, I imagine a lot of GT fans would appreciate FM4's livery system; in the same way, I wish some of GT's unique, genuinely good features were aped in FM4 (or 5). GT5's Photomode is so much better it's almost unfair, as one example. Another you'll see once you get online: being able to Free Run a track before a race. It's one of my most common complaints about FM, and I don't see it ceasing to be until they fix that. Letting us tune in lobbies would be handy. Letting me pick a car that's above the current (online) race's limitations, and then tuning it down to be within them, shouldn't be too hard. This goes hand in hand with what you mentioned about GT5's ballast and engine restrictors, too.
I can't remember much of FM4's career mode now that it's been about a year since I finished it, though I do remember enjoying the progression a bit more than GT5's. GT4's? That was better. But both games seem to force a very linear path for players that I find disappointing. GT5 is the first one where I really have no memorable offline races; GT1 had the epic Normal Car series, for example.
Anywho, whenever you do get online with XBL, do add me 👍
I know it's potentially blasphemous to some from either camp, but I couldn't agree more with your last paragraph. Original or not, I imagine a lot of GT fans would appreciate FM4's livery system; in the same way, I wish some of GT's unique, genuinely good features were aped in FM4 (or 5). GT5's Photomode is so much better it's almost unfair, as one example. Another you'll see once you get online: being able to Free Run a track before a race. It's one of my most common complaints about FM, and I don't see it ceasing to be until they fix that. Letting us tune in lobbies would be handy. Letting me pick a car that's above the current (online) race's limitations, and then tuning it down to be within them, shouldn't be too hard. This goes hand in hand with what you mentioned about GT5's ballast and engine restrictors, too.
I can't remember much of FM4's career mode now that it's been about a year since I finished it, though I do remember enjoying the progression a bit more than GT5's. GT4's? That was better. But both games seem to force a very linear path for players that I find disappointing. GT5 is the first one where I really have no memorable offline races; GT1 had the epic Normal Car series, for example.
Anywho, whenever you do get online with XBL, do add me 👍
- 7,601
- Exorcet
- OE Exorcet
Will do.
And I know what you mean about not having memorable races in GT5. The whole chase the rabbit thing combined with a lazy selection of events would do that.
Admittedly, Forza has a big problem with race length. The longest race I've done so far has been 6 laps (and that was on a short track, 3-4 is usually the limit). But the way the cars feel helps a lot. I accidentally picked an undertuned Lancia for a muscle car race on Road Atlanta. The Lancia itself was just great to drive. Not a lot of power, but light, and it still liked to slide a little bit. I'd cut through the Chevelles and Challengers on the corners and then they'd blast right by me on the straights. It was more fun that I thought it would be. Once I'm done with career and have all the cars I want I think I might revisit some of the events and try them for real instead of just rushing through (that is if I'm not completely addicted to online racing).
- 28,314
- Brooklyn, NY
- KR_Viper
- I Renown I
Issues concerning race length, lack of endurance races, etc, etc can be directly blamed on the community because for whatever reason a majority felt they were too long. 
Scaff
Moderator
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- ScaffUK
Good to see your enjoying it and add me once your on XBL as well.
I would strongly suggest taking a look at some of the DLC as well, while its a hefty investment for the lot some of the stuff on offer is well worth it. The Porsche pack in particular is a great addition in my opinion.
I would agree on the lack of ballast being something I miss from GT5, however don't forget that upgrades can add weight in Forza, so you can often move PI down with the fitment of a none engine related item (roll-cages are worth a look as are LSD's for this). The power limiter was a nice idea in GT5 but I would not want to see it implemented in the same way in another GT or Forza, as right now it allows you to retain utterly unrealistic levels of torque, basically allowing you to cheat in GT5 by overtuning a car and then dropping in down to a PI level using the power limiter while retaining the torque advantages.
Oh and one to tempt you with from the DLC....
...the Ruf Yellowbird finally has a recreation that does it justice, utterly sublime to drive.
Is there any sign of a 'complete' FM4 edition yet? I haven't had the game or a 360 since my "friend" "borrowed" my console over a year ago and without getting into that I'm looking to buy another 360 early next year along with the game but a complete edition with all the DLC would be a preferable buy.
- 7,601
- Exorcet
- OE Exorcet
Yeah, I'd like something more realistic as well. FM3 had restrictors for race cars didn't it? I wonder why they didn't expand on that.
Oh, the DLC is basically considered purchased already. A while ago I won a Virtual On tournament on XBL. First prize was some outrageous number of MS points. I basically bought everything for FM3 and still had some left over. That will be going to FM4 once I get back on Live.
That video has made me realize I haven't tried RR yet. I will need to browse the dealership for one.
- 40,767
Where were all of you guys 2 months ago when I "borrowed" the A/V Club's 360 for 5 weeks and started playing it in earnest? All I got to do was play with Minty and Wiegert. Like, once.
D:
Adding on to this, on lower power cars, an adjustable rear spoiler can knock off a good 5 PI points. That's what I tend to use.
- 5,761
- USA
- TPC_Raccooon23
- CRaccoon23
While we're on the subject of upgrades in Forza that lower PI, does anyone get any use from the differential upgrade? The game always shows that it lowers the car's stats in almost every category, so I never use it.
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- TPC_Raccooon23
- CRaccoon23
Scaff
Sounds like it's almost useless in Horizon then, since there's no tuning in that game.
Wiegert
Premium
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- United Kingdom
It's worth buying the Meguiar's Car Pack for the Yellowbird alone, plus I like how you're able to add BTR front and rear bumpers. I reckon it's the most fun you can have in an S Class car with the right setup for the kind of track you're using it on.
I don't usually bother upgrading the differential. The one time I remember doing it (to lower the PI on a Mustang Cobra R I think), it messed up my original tune, plus I went on to reduce the PI another way which didn't mess up my said tune like the differential upgrade did.
- 770
The problem with using upgrades to lower P.I is it can negatively effect the car and if you avoid an upgrade it can be bad too.
Example being rollcage. If you're going for lightness, you might want to avoid it but some cars have relatively highly flexible chassis and a rollcage can greatly improve handling even while increasing weight (Ford XB GT for example).
Changing rims is a popular way of decreasing P.I but that has an effect on unsprung weight which in my experience greatly effects stability over curbs and rough sections of tracks.
I would usually prefer to lose a few HP/KW than my roll cage or adding 123401660 ton ugly rims just to hit a P.I target.
Example being rollcage. If you're going for lightness, you might want to avoid it but some cars have relatively highly flexible chassis and a rollcage can greatly improve handling even while increasing weight (Ford XB GT for example).
Changing rims is a popular way of decreasing P.I but that has an effect on unsprung weight which in my experience greatly effects stability over curbs and rough sections of tracks.
I would usually prefer to lose a few HP/KW than my roll cage or adding 123401660 ton ugly rims just to hit a P.I target.
- 27,387
- Toronto
- NewAesthetic
- SlipZtrEm
I was probably over on the other 'Planet, waiting around to not be notified of your XBL existence
(Like Scaff said, if you get it again, definitely shoot me a line.)
This actually shines a light on why not having GT's power limiter is actually kind of a good thing; upgrading a car to keep it in a certain class brings with it some planning and compromising. The fact that certain upgrades affect multiple things in seemingly subtle ways really makes me think about what direction I'll take the car in, especially if the goal is specifically to shave lap times. I know that the upgrades I always head for first with regards to horsepower are the air filter and exhaust, since they also perform pretty substantial weight reductions 👍.
- 40,767
I was probably over on the other 'Planet, waiting around to not be notified of your XBL existence
(Like Scaff said, if you get it again, definitely shoot me a line.)
Well, I'm going to buy a 360 with the money I'll get from selling my college textbooks; so you'll have to wait a few weeks to be graced with the presence of all of my cars painted to look like the Hornet Classic.
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- TPC_Raccooon23
- CRaccoon23
ToronadoWell, I'm going to buy a 360 with the money I'll get from selling my college textbooks; so you'll have to wait a few weeks to be graced with the presence of all of my cars painted to look like the Hornet Classic.
Let me know what your gamer tag is once you get it.
JJSCHMITTY
(Banned)
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- JJSCHMITTY
Somehow, flame wars don't happen here while they happen pretty much in every comments section that I know of. Interesting.....
- 770
Effective moderation is all.
Scaff
Moderator
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- ScaffUK
From the physics thread, as I want to cover the non-physics side of things here.
While I would agree that a premium car on a premium track in GT5 has very little that can come close to looking as good, the issue is that the vast majority of GT5 looks nothing like that at all. Personally I would rather have consistency across the whole package than the standard/premium split that GT5 provides.
In regard to engine sounds I simply disagree.
- 5,761
- USA
- TPC_Raccooon23
- CRaccoon23
From the physics thread.
Personally, I do not like GT's online for this very reason. The host has so much control. When I play online, all I want to do is race and nothing else. I'm not interested in doing tracks days or free running. Unfortunately, I'm at the mercy of what the hosts feel like doing. I'm spending more time finding a room I want or if I make my own room, waiting than actually racing. I gave up on GT5's online because of this. My gaming time is limited so I do not have the patience to deal with it.
I don't think they should get rid of Open Lobby, but I wished they added GT5P's matchmaking system along with it. I mean, the manual even says there's both matchmaking and open lobby in the game, so what happened? It's just another false promise by PD. And after all these updates for GT5 during the past two and still no sight of it, it's obvious it will never be added to the game. I know I would still be playing GT5 today if we had it.
Exorcet
Personally, I do not like GT's online for this very reason. The host has so much control. When I play online, all I want to do is race and nothing else. I'm not interested in doing tracks days or free running. Unfortunately, I'm at the mercy of what the hosts feel like doing. I'm spending more time finding a room I want or if I make my own room, waiting than actually racing. I gave up on GT5's online because of this. My gaming time is limited so I do not have the patience to deal with it.
I don't think they should get rid of Open Lobby, but I wished they added GT5P's matchmaking system along with it. I mean, the manual even says there's both matchmaking and open lobby in the game, so what happened? It's just another false promise by PD. And after all these updates for GT5 during the past two and still no sight of it, it's obvious it will never be added to the game. I know I would still be playing GT5 today if we had it.
- 7,601
- Exorcet
- OE Exorcet
Well the problem with finding a room is really down to PD not giving us very much to help us in that area. It probably contributes to the low number of people entering your room too, as there is no way to find it.
As for being at the mercy of the host, well it's the host's room (and from my experience, the vast majority of rooms are racing and not track day/free run), and it's not that different from Forza where you're at the mercy of the lobby system. At least hosts can make good rooms. Forza is limited to 3 lap races (or 1 lap at Nurburgring) with damage off and collisions not fully enabled. I also have to squeeze racing into my free time on some days, but I'd rather have good racing than quick racing. It's not as if Forza's matching making races are so bad that they aren't fun, I do enjoy racing in them, but it's such a waste that your only option is basically CoD style gameplay in racing form.
At least Forza gives you options for both though. I'd imagine GT's online would become similar to Forza's if match making was added, but if it's what people want, it should be added. I'll just have to keep trying with custom rooms in Forza's online. Maybe set up a league at FP.
As for being at the mercy of the host, well it's the host's room (and from my experience, the vast majority of rooms are racing and not track day/free run), and it's not that different from Forza where you're at the mercy of the lobby system. At least hosts can make good rooms. Forza is limited to 3 lap races (or 1 lap at Nurburgring) with damage off and collisions not fully enabled. I also have to squeeze racing into my free time on some days, but I'd rather have good racing than quick racing. It's not as if Forza's matching making races are so bad that they aren't fun, I do enjoy racing in them, but it's such a waste that your only option is basically CoD style gameplay in racing form.
At least Forza gives you options for both though. I'd imagine GT's online would become similar to Forza's if match making was added, but if it's what people want, it should be added. I'll just have to keep trying with custom rooms in Forza's online. Maybe set up a league at FP.
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