FM Vs GT - Discussion Thread (read the first post before you post)

[Ridox2JZGTE]

I'm sorry but if you have to specifically tune and upgrade the car and do it on a certain track it's really not torque steer you're experiencing, it's something else.

I suggest you to try it yourself, buy the Corvette Z6 C5 '04, leave the power stock, do an oil change if you like, just buy the full custom transmission, use default top speed, change 1st all the way to the left, and final gear 2.200. The reason for the ratio is because the way the tire model in GT5 handles spinning tires due to lost of traction. It can be done on all track, I have managed to do it at Monza, Motegi, Top Gear Test Track, Indy Road and many others both offline and online, the only prerequisite is grip reduction must be real and comfort hard tire. GT5 does include torque steer in the physics simulation, but the flaws in the tire model prevent or diminished it's occurences.

Please at least try it 1st before you have more say.

 

[Samus]

All I see you doing is manipulating the game to get your desired results. If torque steer was properly modelled it would affect cars that it should bone stock. You wouldn't have to do all of that.

 

[Scaff]

I suggest you to try it yourself, buy the Corvette Z6 C5 '04, leave the power stock, do an oil change if you like, just buy the full custom transmission, use default top speed, change 1st all the way to the left, and final gear 2.200. The reason for the ratio is because the way the tire model in GT5 handles spinning tires due to lost of traction. It can be done on all track, I have managed to do it at Monza, Motegi, Top Gear Test Track, Indy Road and many others both offline and online, the only prerequisite is grip reduction must be real and comfort hard tire. GT5 does include torque steer in the physics simulation, but the flaws in the tire model prevent or diminished it's occurences.

Please at least try it 1st before you have more say.

I've tried it for myself and 100% maintain the opinion that if you have to go to these lengths to get torque steer to occur from a standing start then its most certainly not a plus point for GT at all.

That you have to effectively fool the physics engine into thinking that you are not starting from standstill (which is what this seems to be doing) to get this to occur does not mean that GT5 has anything that is even close to standing start torque steer modeled.

Do we have to go through any of this in FM4 or iRacing or LFS or RacePro to get standing start torque steer? The answer is no, if the car should do it in real life you get it in the game, it may no be to the same degree but at least it is happening when it should (and its not a pre-set amount either but clearly varying dependent on the car.

Part of the reason I came up with this as an example in the first place was to highlight the differences between how FM4 and GT5 handle tyre and suspension modeling, that you have to 'fool' the tyre and suspension model in GT5 to get this to occur only counts against GT5 in this regard.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

It happens with different gear ratio, meaning different number to simulate in the game, it is a physics flaw from the design point of view, but I would still consider that torque steer is included in the physics calculation. The other part of the physics calculation prevent it to happen, and as you said, torque steer does exist albeit not properly implemented due to the flaws of tire model. If PD improved their tire model and implement whatever hidden code for real grip reduction to all driving condition, I am sure torque steer would occur even with bone stock cars.

The discussion was about whether torque steer exist in GT5, it does, but it has flaws which PD should have fixed long time ago.

 

[Scaff]

It happens with different gear ratio, meaning different number to simulate in the game, it is a physics flaw from the design point of view, but I would still consider that torque steer is included in the physics calculation. The other part of the physics calculation prevent it to happen, and as you said, torque steer does exist albeit not properly implemented due to the flaws of tire model. If PD improved their tire model and implement whatever hidden code for real grip reduction to all driving condition, I am sure torque steer would occur even with bone stock cars.

But it doesn't without modification to the car and as such GT5 does not model torque steer from a standing start due to the issues with how the physics are implemented.

The discussion was about whether torque steer exist in GT5, it does, but it has flaws which PD should have fixed long time ago.

No it wasn't.

I put this test together originally and I have never disputed that RWD torque steer exists when moving in GT5, if that wasn't the case then no car would power-oversteer. Go back and read all my posts and you will see that has always been a consistent stand of mine.

What I have said from the beginning is that GT5 doesn't model torque steer from a standing start due to issues with the tyre and suspension model, and I still maintain that. These modifications and set-up changes are simply tweaking the torque delivery to get the car moving slightly before the peak torque kicks in (hence the reason why with some cars higher gears are required), which does not prove that GT5 has torque steer from a standing start. All it proves is that the members here are more than smart enough to get around the issues GT5's physics have.

However this in no way changes the point that GT5 does not model torque steer from a standing start, if it did then none of this would be needed. Get it to happen with a bone stock Cobra on any tyre and then you will have proven that.

 

[Terronium-12]

I thoroughly enjoy this haphazard of a "conversation":

"Torque exists I tell you!" You know, so long as you're trying it with the online physics and you modify some stuff here and there.

"Try it before claiming it doesn't exist." Of course you have to use a specific car on a specific track with specific adjustments, but other than that it's totally there.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

I see, I didn't realized about the moving/standing start part, I was just pointing that torque steer does happen in GT5, that's all. I agree that the issue with torque steer is mainly caused by deficiencies in physics ( tire/suspension ).

I thoroughly enjoy this haphazard of a "conversation":

"Torque exists I tell you!" You know, so long as you're trying it with the online physics and you modify some stuff here and there.

"Try it before claiming it doesn't exist." Of course you have to use a specific car on a specific track with specific adjustments, but other than that it's totally there.

It can happen on all track both offline and online, the main thing is grip reduction real, and altered gearing, a stock FR powered car with only gearing tuning could do it using comfort hard tires. It's flawed but it's what PD has given

 

[Samus]

Exactly, what they are experiencing isn't torque steer from a standing start, it's a clever manipulation of the physics to induce oversteer while moving. Not the same at all. I mean in that Merc video how many meters down the road does it travel before torque steer supposedly kicks in? A good couple of hundred metres, if it was torque steer it would affect the car the second it started moving.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

Exactly, what they are experiencing isn't torque steer from a standing start, it's a clever manipulation of the physics to induce oversteer while moving. Not the same at all. I mean in that Merc video how many meters down the road does it travel before torque steer supposedly kicks in? A good couple of hundred metres, if it was torque steer it would affect the car the second it started moving.

The car does steer itself due to torque effect, even though not when the car started moving. I did not input any steering, just full throttle in 1st until the car steers itself into a spin. I don't know how I should call this, but inducing oversteer usually applies due to steering and throttle input

 

[thelvynau]

Exactly, what they are experiencing isn't torque steer from a standing start, it's a clever manipulation of the physics to induce oversteer while moving. Not the same at all. I mean in that Merc video how many meters down the road does it travel before torque steer supposedly kicks in? A good couple of hundred metres, if it was torque steer it would affect the car the second it started moving.

I agree with this.

How can ig be decided that gt5 models it when it only works under certain conditions when in forza you can take any rwd car and do it without needing to create certain conditions.

 

[Scaff]

The car does steer itself due to torque effect, even though not when the car started moving. I did not input any steering, just full throttle in 1st until the car steers itself into a spin. I don't know how I should call this, but inducing oversteer usually applies due to steering and throttle input

I'm not disputing that your not using the steering, its not required for power oversteer at all, the more steering you have applied the greater the oversteer effect will be, but a lack of steering input when the car is moving will not make it go away.

Plenty of high torque cars will 'wiggle their hips' in 2nd, 3rd or even 4th gear on the straight with zero steering input and GT5 is reasonable with this, its when tyres have to overcome rolling resistance from a standstill that it all falls apart.

These changes to the set-up force low torque to overcome the rolling resistance and get the car moving before the higher torque kicks in and torque steers the car. The fundamental point here is that this is not torque steer from a standing start and you have to 'bastardize' the cars set-up to cause it to occur.

Not exactly what I would call an indicator of a solid physics engine.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

I'm not disputing that your not using the steering, its not required for power oversteer at all, the more steering you have applied the greater the oversteer effect will be, but a lack of steering input when the car is moving will not make it go away.

Plenty of high torque cars will 'wiggle their hips' in 2nd, 3rd or even 4th gear on the straight with zero steering input and GT5 is reasonable with this, its when tyres have to overcome rolling resistance from a standstill that it all falls apart.

These changes to the set-up force low torque to overcome the rolling resistance and get the car moving before the higher torque kicks in and torque steers the car. The fundamental point here is that this is not torque steer from a standing start and you have to 'bastardize' the cars set-up to cause it to occur.

Not exactly what I would call an indicator of a solid physics engine.

Which I agree that GT5 physics ( simple tire and suspension model is at fault ) for this.

 

[Scaff]

Which I agree that GT5 physics ( simple tire and suspension model is at fault ) for this.

In simple terms the issue is that standing start torque steer is initiated by the different grip levels in the driven wheels resulting in different rolling resistance values. This means that as the torque is applied one wheel will 'give' before the other.

What this 'tweak' does is overcome the rolling resistance (which is always equal in GT5) and once the car starts moving it then applies the torque unequally to the different driven tyres.

 

[88FoxBodyFan]

Having recently bought Forza 4 I say this. Using a bone stock 2011 Vauxhall Agila with 84 horsepower, If I rev it 6000 rpm and dump the clutch, the torque steer will cause it to turn slightly to the left without me pressing any direction on the joystick. I played GT5 for 2 solid years, until my Playstation 3 died, and never had any vehicle do that.

 

[cuco33]

I'm surprised people are still arguing that GT5 has torque steer.
It doesn't.

I've tried well over a dozen high powered RWD cars from the Shelby Cobra to Corvettes to Ferrari F1s to TVR Speed 12 to you name it, on various tires from the stickiest RS to the slipperiest CH.. tried and true all cars darted off the line in a straight line, no torque steer, no ass kick. This was on level straight roads, no assists on, both pad and wheel.

In real life, in FM4, in GTR2, in many other games across various platforms deemed sims, that just doesn't happen at all as it does in GT5. It's a flaw in GT5, people just need to accept it.

 

[Lock2Lock]

But it doesn't without modification to the car and as such GT5 does not model torque steer from a standing start due to the issues with how the physics are implemented.

No it wasn't.

I put this test together originally and I have never disputed that RWD torque steer exists when moving in GT5, if that wasn't the case then no car would power-oversteer. Go back and read all my posts and you will see that has always been a consistent stand of mine.

What I have said from the beginning is that GT5 doesn't model torque steer from a standing start due to issues with the tyre and suspension model, and I still maintain that. These modifications and set-up changes are simply tweaking the torque delivery to get the car moving slightly before the peak torque kicks in (hence the reason why with some cars higher gears are required), which does not prove that GT5 has torque steer from a standing start. All it proves is that the members here are more than smart enough to get around the issues GT5's physics have.

However this in no way changes the point that GT5 does not model torque steer from a standing start, if it did then none of this would be needed. Get it to happen with a bone stock Cobra on any tyre and then you will have proven that.

Let me ask you this. How do you know the stock transmissions are correct to them being the same as the car in real life?
I mean you still denying that isn't torque steer because you have to set the transmission differently. i would like you to tell me that GT5 has the same exact transmission that the car has in real life(as in top speed and final gear and gear ratios). I mean it just seems like you're just all about the point that changing the gear ratios to the car makes a point against GT5 having torque steer at all "that's not torque steer.. By changing the transmission that's ticking the physics engine"

I thoroughly enjoy this haphazard of a "conversation":

"Torque exists I tell you!" You know, so long as you're trying it with the online physics and you modify some stuff here and there.

"Try it before claiming it doesn't exist." Of course you have to use a specific car on a specific track with specific adjustments, but other than that it's totally there.

Specific car? Specific track? No wrong never said that.




But Scaff this whole time i was agreeing with you to the point of it being not simulated correctly i understand that. My demonstration proves that even with the C5 Vette. But all it seems to do in GT5 is come in to play late. Every car i do it with it seems to have to burn past the power ban of the car for it to do it. And what i have noticed is the cars experience torque steer around the same point

 

[Scaff]

Let me ask you this. How do you know the stock transmissions are correct to them being the same as the car in real life?
I mean you still denying that isn't torque steer because you have to set the transmission differently. i would like you to tell me that GT5 has the same exact transmission that the car has in real life(as in top speed and final gear and gear ratios).

The vast majority of cars I've tested over the years in teh GT series have the right stock gear ratios, however I am more than happy to explore this angle. So please post up the gear ratios you have set for the C63 AMG and we can then look at how they compare with the stock car.

Oh and top speeds in GT are always out, not because of gearing but because of aero issues, something that is both well known and accepted.

Edited to add:

From your (I believe) Z06:

Another alternative tune that I experimented is to use stock Corvette Z06 C5'04 - oil change - 414hp, no mods except full transmission, reset to default, set 1st to 2.732, then final 2.200. It will have torque steer on full throttle launch in 1st gear with comfort hard.

The correct first gear ratio for a Z06 is 2.66 and the final drive is 3.42, so what difference would that make, well at peak torque in first each of you driven wheels are getting 1,274 ftlbs of torque rather that the 1,928 ftlbs they should be getting. In other words you have near halved the torque delivered to each driven wheel!

To add context a stock Miata/MX-5 will produce around 900 ftlbs per driven wheel, but weighs less (2,447lbs vs 3,208lbs) so the Miata is producing 367 ftlbs per 1,000lbs at each driven wheel and the Z06 397 ftlbs per 1,000lbs at each driven wheel. So you have to nerf the driven wheel torque of a Z06 to near the level of a Miata to get this to work, and you don't see the issue with that?

Also this causes an issue for one of your earlier theories, that if we could get a car (stock) that was close to what you can make 'work' then it may demonstrate torque steer from a standing start in stock form. Guess what happens with a stock Miata from a standing start?

I mean it just seems like you're just all about the point that changing the gear ratios to the car makes a point against GT5 having torque steer at all "that's not torque steer.. By changing the transmission that's ticking the physics engine"

Did you not read what I posted?

I clearly explained what I believe is happening with this, GT5 has torque steer once the tyres rolling resistance has been overcome, I have never once stated that GT5 doesn't have torque steer in these circumstances.

What is not correctly modeled is torque steer from a standing start, why they have nerfed this is a question you would have to ask PD but they clearly have, if that were not the case you would get torque steer (to varying degrees) from a standing start with all reasonably powerful RWD cars.

Now even if PD got the gear ratios wrong on all the cars (which you have just implied) that still doesn't explain why you have to mod the hell out of the C63 to get it to occur.


What I would love to have you explain is exactly why I can't take a stock C63 AMG in GT5 (on CH tyres) and get torque steer from a standstill.

But Scaff this whole time i was agreeing with you to the point of it being not simulated correctly i understand that. My demonstration proves that even with the C5 Vette. But all it seems to do in GT5 is come in to play late. Every car i do it with it seems to have to burn past the power ban of the car for it to do it. And what i have noticed is the cars experience torque steer around the same point

Which would once again point to this tricking the physics issue that stops it occurring off the line.

What ever way you try and explain this away it doesn't get away from the clear fact that you have to do things to a car that you shouldn't have to in order to get something that appears to be torque steer from a standing start, but is in fact still torque steer while in motion.

You may be happy with that and find it a good enough substitute, however for me its simply not good enough. The changes required to the Z06 gear ration (in particular the final drive) are huge and affect the entire way power is being delivered, enough in my opinion to ruin the car.

 

[Exorcet]

The car does steer itself due to torque effect, even though not when the car started moving. I did not input any steering, just full throttle in 1st until the car steers itself into a spin. I don't know how I should call this, but inducing oversteer usually applies due to steering and throttle input

Just because it looks [vaguely] like torque steer doesn't mean it's torque steer. It could be akin to a glitch. If the physics modeled torque steer, you wouldn't need to go through hoops to see it.

Also, why are people testing the cars anywhere except SSRX which is perfectly flat?

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

Just because it looks [vaguely] like torque steer doesn't mean it's torque steer. It could be akin to a glitch. If the physics modeled torque steer, you wouldn't need to go through hoops to see it.

Also, why are people testing the cars anywhere except SSRX which is perfectly flat?

For me when the torque differences between 2 wheels against the road surface caused the car to swerve left/right I would call it torque steer. In GT5 it does happen, but only when the car already moved, so it's a flaw. Then it rarely happen on perfectly flat surface like SSRX, I tried the car there, it does not happen. So apparently GT5 takes into account road elevation, camber, suspension changes etc, but only when the car already moved.

The funny thing is I tried it on other tracks which have flat surface on straight, it happens. There is something unique about SSRX.

 

[FyreandIce]

So apparently GT5 takes into account road elevation, camber, suspension changes etc, but only when the car already moved.

So that is what's causing it, not actual torque steer.

 

[Ls2BluGoat]

Considering the current topic of torque steer has died down a little, I figured I would divert it away a little and talk about the sounds of both games. Just a quick question to those who are much more savvy in this department than I am, how would these two games compare?

There's a guy here on gtplanet that goes by the username Griffith500 and he seems to be very knowledgeable when it comes to sounds. According to him, intake noise is what seems to be absent in either game, however I find myself to hear lots of intake noise in FM4 much more so than in GT5, especially when in bumper cam and cockpit view. I also noticed heavy amounts of distortion in FM4... is it accurate and true to the original sound of a real car? At times no, however it doesn't really bother me at all considering that most sound appealing (at least to me that is).

There are some cars like the Lamborghini Gallardo in Forza that sounds so scarily accurate that it almsot makes me feel like I'm driving the actual car at times. Which makes me wonder, how much more can Turn 10 improve in this department and what can Polyphony Digital do to improve their sounds?

I guess there are some minute things that could be added in either game to make racing more enjoyable. Like chassis creak, gravel kicking up in the undercarriage, and spooling on forced-induction equipped cars would certainly make the racing experience that much more authentic, but I guess that would have to wait until GT6 and FM5

 

[Bopop4]

Simply put, FM4 is way ahead of GT5 sound wise.
Look up "AE86 2nd to 3rd 10k" on Youtube, it sounds just like a high RPM 86 in FM4.
Plus any other car in the game...

And FM4 does have great turbo sounds, loud BOVs and I sometimes don't like driving my NSX because of the turbo whine, like a mosquito.

 

[ThorAsgard]

Forza:

• Customization
• Relatively more realistic damage
• Tyre physics
• Better car sounds
• Online is comparatively better
  [*]Better selection of cars
• More consistent graphics
  [*]More tracks

GT:

• Better physics inmyhonestopinion
• Good rendition of tracks
• Premium cars better modeled and detailed
• Sound engine (doppler effect, exhaust and engine have different notes and can be heard individually and their volume depends on the position of the camera, etc.)
• Day/Night shift and weather and their transitions beautifully rendered
  [*]Better graphics
• More cars especially historically important models
• Photomode much better
• B-Spec (not the way it is implemented in GT5, however)

Overall it's a good list, but I don't agree with some like, I've marked the ones I disagree with

 

[Watt2159]

There is only two things I hate about Forza, but aside from them, I really like playing the game, just not as much as Gran Turismo, and its really just because of these two reasons

1.its physics, just terrible in my opinion, I can get used to them, but if I don't play the game for more than just a few days, I basically have to learn all over again, its just inconsistent, and annoying, I know FR drivetrains can oversteer easily in real life without TCS, but the problem is, THEY ALL OVERSTEER NO MATTER WHAT even if I have the down force set to max, have racing slicks, low suspension, and a very weak differential, it does not matter, the car will just slide at the slightest bit of acceleration, even the Le Mans cars do it, the AWD's are somewhat the same, but instead of oversteer, they have THE WORST understeer I've ever seen, I practically have to stop just to get close to the braking line, and that's another thing, the brakes in the game just plain S-U-C-K, worse than Gran Turismo's, they just don't work, and ABS makes NOOOOOO difference whatsoever, they'll lock up no matter what, and if they're not locking up, they're not even attempting to stop the car, or they're trying waaaaay too hard, however, when I first heard that they were going to use the same physics in Horizon, I don't know why, but I just thought that it would work best in that game, it feels like it was ment for a free roamer, and not a track racer, and I'm not really sure why......


But the biggest reason that prevents me from completley loving Forza


2.THE FANBASE

Just where do I begin, they are some of the most hard headed, immature, annoying fanboys I've EVER seen, and I've been to Mopar and Subaru car shows, I don't know why, but they just get so offensive if you say ANYTHING that is against their game, they act like Forza is the best game ever conceived by man, and that it deserves every award it can get, they don't care if the car list is (lets admit it) lacking some cars, they don't care if the physics absolutely suck, they will just refuse to admit that their game, like every game ever made, is flawed, so having an intelligent debate with them about their game is just %100 out of the question, I can understand standing by something you like, but when you start to insult people on a personal level because they have a different view on a VIDEO GAME non the less, that goes against your view on it, you have just gone against your own reasoning, because it's unnecessary, and unfortunately most of Forza's fans are like this, and if a community is nothing but a bunch of closed minded clones, than I don't want to be a part of it.

But overall, I'm excited for Horizon, I just hope those two things have improved since I last played FM3 back in 2010, because if so, it will probably be the racing game that I've always wanted to play.

 

[Scaff]

There is only two things I hate about Forza, but aside from them, I really like playing the game, just not as much as Gran Turismo, and its really just because of these two reasons

1.its physics, just terrible in my opinion, I can get used to them, but if I don't play the game for more than just a few days, I basically have to learn all over again, its just inconsistent, and annoying, I know FR drivetrains can oversteer easily in real life without TCS, but the problem is, THEY ALL OVERSTEER NO MATTER WHAT even if I have the down force set to max, have racing slicks, low suspension, and a very weak differential, it does not matter, the car will just slide at the slightest bit of acceleration, even the Le Mans cars do it, the AWD's are somewhat the same, but instead of oversteer, they have THE WORST understeer I've ever seen, I practically have to stop just to get close to the braking line, and that's another thing, the brakes in the game just plain S-U-C-K, worse than Gran Turismo's, they just don't work, and ABS makes NOOOOOO difference whatsoever, they'll lock up no matter what, and if they're not locking up, they're not even attempting to stop the car, or they're trying waaaaay too hard, however, when I first heard that they were going to use the same physics in Horizon, I don't know why, but I just thought that it would work best in that game, it feels like it was ment for a free roamer, and not a track racer, and I'm not really sure why......


But the biggest reason that prevents me from completley loving Forza


2.THE FANBASE

Just where do I begin, they are some of the most hard headed, immature, annoying fanboys I've EVER seen, and I've been to Mopar and Subaru car shows, I don't know why, but they just get so offensive if you say ANYTHING that is against their game, they act like Forza is the best game ever conceived by man, and that it deserves every award it can get, they don't care if the car list is (lets admit it) lacking some cars, they don't care if the physics absolutely suck, they will just refuse to admit that their game, like every game ever made, is flawed, so having an intelligent debate with them about their game is just %100 out of the question, I can understand standing by something you like, but when you start to insult people on a personal level because they have a different view on a VIDEO GAME non the less, that goes against your view on it, you have just gone against your own reasoning, because it's unnecessary, and unfortunately most of Forza's fans are like this, and if a community is nothing but a bunch of closed minded clones, than I don't want to be a part of it.

But overall, I'm excited for Horizon, I just hope those two things have improved since I last played FM3 back in 2010, because if so, it will probably be the racing game that I've always wanted to play.

Which version of FM are you actually referring to here?

As your comments with regard to physics certainly don't gel with most peoples (and no it's not the rabid fanbase you are talking to).


Oh and mod hat on for a second, can you refrain from using Fanboy, its a term that we dislike intensely here (regardless of who its aimed at).

 

[C_Raccoon23]

Watt, pretty much every fan base has the kind of people you described, and from my experience here, GT is no exception.

 

[thelvynau]

I doubt the fan base can be a large reason on why a game is great or not.

I do believe it reflects someones enjoyment of the game but it shouldnt be a big reason on how a game is unless its a MMO maybe.

 

[Bopop4]

Have you actually ever raced a car on a track?
FR's will oversteer, it's in their nature. And putting a weaker diff in it isn't going to help any.

The brakes seem fine to me, it takes a lot of time and energy to slow down 3000lbs of metal from 100mph. And ABS will cause the braking to be less effective.

 

[buickgnx88]

(Changed by me)

But the biggest reason that prevents me from completley loving Gran Turismo


2.THE FANBASE

Just where do I begin, they are some of the most hard headed, immature, annoying fanboys I've EVER seen, and I've been to Mopar and Subaru car shows, I don't know why, but they just get so offensive if you say ANYTHING that is against their game, they act like Gran Turismo is the best game ever conceived by man, and that it deserves every award it can get, they don't care if the car list is (lets admit it) lacking some cars, they don't care if the physics absolutely suck, they will just refuse to admit that their game, like every game ever made, is flawed, so having an intelligent debate with them about their game is just %100 out of the question, I can understand standing by something you like, but when you start to insult people on a personal level because they have a different view on a VIDEO GAME non the less, that goes against your view on it, you have just gone against your own reasoning, because it's unnecessary, and unfortunately most of GT's fans are like this, and if a community is nothing but a bunch of closed minded clones, than I don't want to be a part of it.

Funny, that rant could describe the GT section here as well.

 

[Watt2159]

Which version of FM are you actually referring to here?

As your comments with regard to physics certainly don't gel with most peoples (and no it's not the rabid fanbase you are talking to).


Oh and mod hat on for a second, can you refrain from using Fanboy, its a term that we dislike intensely here (regardless of who its aimed at).

3 and 4, I just dreaded the physics in those two, but it seemed that Forza 2 had the best physics overall, it was balanced, and it reminded me a little of PGR4's physics, and then on 3, it was basically Forza 2 on meth, and it got worse in FM4, yes I know that FR's get oversteer, I own a FR in real life, I've taken it to a track, but in real life, its wasn't as bad as the cars emulated in FM3, and 4, they'll oversteer if you so much as even look at the throttle the wrong way, its like the cars have either too much weight, or inertia, and yes I know that not every Forza fan is uptight, but it seems that most of the ones I've ran into, are, I'm not trying to offend anyone on here, but I was getting sick of going online, or to their message boards, and hearing nothing but trash talk on other racing games, and all who play them, maybe its gotten better over time, but back in FM3, and I will stand by this %100, it was always "Forza, or go 🤬 yourself"