FM Vs GT - Discussion Thread (read the first post before you post)

[Scaff]

You didn't listen to what i said above. Just was in the same room with a friend and his car does it. Got a great view of the front wheels the whole time. You can clearly see he didn't turn the wheels at all. I am uploading it right now to YouTube


Here's the new video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9HRArmHNUCY&feature=youtube_gdata_player

You can't see the front wheels all the time at all, only when full lock is applied and to be honest it still looks as if steering input is being applied.

However time permitting I'm more than happy to give it a go on GT5 again, but I remain very skeptical.

 

[Lock2Lock]

You can't see the front wheels all the time at all, only when full lock is applied and to be honest it still looks as if steering input is being applied.

However time permitting I'm more than happy to give it a go on GT5 again, but I remain very skeptical.

How about i add you on PSN and you can come see and i cane explain it as it is happening

 

[Tornado]

In the two launches that were lit well enough where you could actually see the front wheels (1:25, 1:55), you can pretty plainly see the front right tire turning slightly before the car starts to spin. In fact, for the 1:25 launch, you can see how the car's steering was nudged to the right once, and when that wasn't enough that it was nudged to the right a second time.

 

[Scaff]

How about i add you on PSN and you can come see and i cane explain it as it is happening

How about you just explain exactly how you are carrying this out right here and that way we can all test it and feedback to everyone.

This is taken from 1:54



and 1:55 (actually just a few frames later




I've reduced the contrast to tidy up the shadow detail a little, but that looks a lot like steering being applied to my eyes.

 

[Lock2Lock]

How about you just explain exactly how you are carrying this out right here and that way we can all test it and feedback to everyone.

This is taken from 1:54

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/820/beforefa.jpg/

and 1:55 (actually just a few frames later

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/706/afterv.jpg/

I've reduced the contrast to tidy up the shadow detail a little, but that looks a lot like steering being applied to my eyes.

you only looked on one side did you notice that the wheels poke out on both sides.
Anyway

Ok then i had him duplicate the car and i drove to my friend's house to get a controller just so i can stop being called a liar. I just did the video again and you can see my tv and controller in my hand.
My controller buttons i used so there's no confusion anymore.
R2- gas
R1- e brake
Circle- upshift
X- donwnshift

Video is uploading now. Give me a few and i will post

 

[Scaff]

you only looked on one side did you notice that the wheels poke out on both sides.
Anyway

Ok then i had him duplicate the car and i drove to my friend's house to get a controller just so i can stop being called a liar. I just did the video again and you can see my tv and controller in my hand.
My controller buttons i used so there's no confusion anymore.
R2- gas
R1- e brake
Circle- upshift
X- donwnshift

Video is uploading now. Give me a few and i will post

No one's calling you a liar (after all it wasn't your video) but it is you must admit odd that you are getting results that no one else is at all.

Could you post up the spec of the car as well (mods and also settings used) as you should be able to recreate this just using a stock RWD car with a reasonable amount of torque and road tyres.

Oh and I looked at both sides and more than a few frames as well.

Ta

 

[Lock2Lock]

No one's calling you a liar (after all it wasn't your video) but it is you must admit odd that you are getting results that no one else is at all.

Could you post up the spec of the car as well (any mods and also settings used).

Oh and I looked at both sides and more than a few frames as well.

Ta

I Know bro. And that was my video we were in my lounge and i started a race so i could record replay.

But here's the new video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KClNDXOI1lY&feature=youtube_gdata_player



The car is fully moded except for chassis reinforcement.
Stock suspension
Stock LSD
Comfort hard tires
Fully customizable transmission (don't know the exact settings but it does go about 240+)

I can do one from in car camera to if you want.

And just to clarify i am holding the phone in one hand and holding the controller in the other. There's no way for me to add steering.

I am uploading one with in car camera and the controller in one hand the phone in other. By the way is really hard to hold steady Hahaha

Here's the in car camera view. Once again same car same setup and again holding phone in one hand controller in my other hand.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5eX1a7RITzU&feature=youtube_gdata_player

 

[Scaff]

I Know bro. And that was my video we were in my lounge and i started a race so i could record replay.

But here's the new video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KClNDXOI1lY&feature=youtube_gdata_player



The car is fully moded except for chassis reinforcement.
Stock suspension
Stock LSD
Comfort hard tires
Fully customizable transmission (don't know the exact settings but it does go about 240+)

I can do one from in car camera to if you want.

And just to clarify i am holding the phone in one hand and holding the controller in the other. There's no way for me to add steering.

I am uploading one with in car camera and the controller in one hand the phone in other. By the way is really hard to hold steady Hahaha

Here's the in car camera view. Once again same car same setup and again holding phone in one hand controller in my other hand.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5eX1a7RITzU&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Quick question that may answer this, what gear are you launching in?

 

[MagpieRacer]

Video says 4th.

Trololololo.

 

[Scaff]

Video says 4th.

Trololololo.

Which would add some evidence that PD have nerfed the physics from a standstill/1st gear.

Its fully accepted that GT5 does model torque steer when the car is in motion, but it looks like it also needs to have not started in 1st gear. That would explain why the stock Cobra I launched from 1st didn't twitch at all.

It would be interesting to see what happens to the C63 when launched from 1st gear.

I tested a stock on on CH at Route X and it remained straight through every gear, a test of the same in FM4 (on the TG 1 mile straight) saw the car torque steer, not the huge levels the Cobra does (mainly due to the substantial weight difference) but torque steer none the less.

Once I can get back on the PS3 I will mod the C63 and see how it goes from a 1st gear launch, then repeat the process with FM4.

 

[thelvynau]

Video says 4th.

Trololololo.

Why would anyone launch in fourth?

 

[Lock2Lock]

Quick question that may answer this, what gear are you launching in?

3rd or 4th

Which would add some evidence that PD have nerfed the physics from a standstill/1st gear.

Its fully accepted that GT5 does model torque steer when the car is in motion, but it looks like it also needs to have not started in 1st gear. That would explain why the stock Cobra I launched from 1st didn't twitch at all.

It would be interesting to see what happens to the C63 when launched from 1st gear.

I tested a stock on on CH at Route X and it remained straight through every gear, a test of the same in FM4 (on the TG 1 mile straight) saw the car torque steer, not the huge levels the Cobra does (mainly due to the substantial weight difference) but torque steer none the less.

Once I can get back on the PS3 I will mod the C63 and see how it goes from a 1st gear launch, then repeat the process with FM4.

Totally agree. That's one of the things i was trying to display. There's torque steer but not as drastic maybe as it should. Yeah i also will test the front wheel drive cars trying to see if my wheel tilts from torque steer like it used to do.

In GT5 unless you flip the transmission (tuning method for transmissions) to get high speed first gear (short ratio) which would take time. Pretty sure you will have to do what i did and launch in a higher gear. But doing it in any gear is still torque steer no doubt about it. Would be nice if it would do it in first but i haven't seen one yet

Why would anyone launch in fourth?

What gear i launched in is not really the point.

 

[Scaff]

3rd or 4th



Totally agree. That's one of the things i was trying to display. There's torque steer but not as drastic maybe as it should. Yeah i also will test the front wheel drive cars trying to see if my wheel tilts from torque steer like it used to do.

In GT5 unless you flip the transmission (tuning method for transmissions) to get high speed first gear (short ratio) which would take time. Pretty sure you will have to do what i did and launch in a higher gear. But doing it in any gear is still torque steer no doubt about it. Would be nice if it would do it in first but i haven't seen one yet

FWD launches with a wheel will give you nerfed results as GT5 FFB masks the lack of torque steer from FWD cars. Try it with a controller, without touching the steering and from 1st gear (you know like you would to see the degree of torque steer in a real car).

What gear i launched in is not really the point.

I totally and utterly disagree. As gearing multiplies torque to the driven wheels, that you have to use higher gears and a tweaked set of ratios to get torque steer from launch is a major point.

If the physics engine was even getting close to modeling what its supposed to you should be able to take a stock car and launch from 1st gear and get torque steer in the C63 AMG. 1st gear should result in the highest levels of torque steer, not result in no torque steer at all.

 

[Tornado]

So I did this:



Perhaps you can be more specific about what you did to achieve the thing you showed in your video? Because I can't get it to happen based on what you've said so far. I launched in 3rd like your second video, 4th like your first video, then for giggles tried 5th and 6th gear launches. No dice. I even switched the camera and redid the 6th gear launch, and still nothing.

 

[Lock2Lock]

FWD launches with a wheel will give you nerfed results as GT5 FFB masks the lack of torque steer from FWD cars. Try it with a controller, without touching the steering and from 1st gear (you know like you would to see the degree of torque steer in a real car).

I totally and utterly disagree. As gearing multiplies torque to the driven wheels, that you have to use higher gears and a tweaked set of ratios to get torque steer from launch is a major point.

If the physics engine was even getting close to modeling what its supposed to you should be able to take a stock car and launch from 1st gear and get torque steer in the C63 AMG. 1st gear should result in the highest levels of torque steer, not result in no torque steer at all.

The transmission point that you are trying to make is irrelevant. The reason it is irrelevant think about it this way. You could have the same gear ratio that i had in 4th gear and have it in 1st gear and it would happen the same way. So me tweaking the settings in the transmission doesn't matter at all. Does that not make sense?

So I did this:

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nI_gXIz9X0A">YouTube Link</a>

Perhaps you can be more specific about what you did to achieve the thing you showed in your video? Because I can't get it to happen based on what you've said so far. I launched in 3rd like your first video, 4th like your second video, then for giggles tried 5th and 6th gear launches. No dice. I even switched the camera and redid the 6th gear launch, and still nothing.

How about you join me on GT5 we can start a race and i will do it as many times to your satisfaction save the replay. If you want go look for me adding steering which i have already shown i didn't do. I have friends with many different cars that are doing the same thing. Just do this and you can see first hand.

 

[Scaff]

The transmission point that you are trying to make is irrelevant. The reason it is irrelevant think about it this way. You could have the same gear ratio that i had in 4th gear and have it in 1st gear and it would happen the same way. So me tweaking the settings in the transmission doesn't matter at all. Does that not make sense?

No it doesn't make any sense at all, all it does is prove that GT5 still has the same issues it has with realistically modeled torque steer (or lack of) from launch.

It wouldn't matter if it happened in 1st and 4th (or any other gear) when they are set to the same ratio, but it doesn't.

If its doesn't matter at all then explain to me exactly why it shouldn't happen in 1st but should in 4th and how that indicates a good torque steer model from launch in GT5.

 

[thelvynau]

So I did this:

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nI_gXIz9X0A">YouTube Link</a>

Perhaps you can be more specific about what you did to achieve the thing you showed in your video? Because I can't get it to happen based on what you've said so far. I launched in 3rd like your second video, 4th like your first video, then for giggles tried 5th and 6th gear launches. No dice. I even switched the camera and redid the 6th gear launch, and still nothing.

I tried the same thing based off what he described and got nothing is there a suspension setting he is using to pull the car to the side?

 

[Tornado]

He said stock suspension and LSD, so that's what I left it at. The only difference that I'm aware of is that I did it at SSRX because I don't have TGTT unlocked.

How about you join me on GT5 we can start a race and i will do it as many times to your satisfaction save the replay. If you want go look for me adding steering which i have already shown i didn't do. I have friends with many different cars that are doing the same thing. Just do this and you can see first hand.

That would not accomplish anything. I'd like to try and understand why the car is acting that way for you to get a better appreciation for what it happening, and I can't do that simply by watching other people do it.

 

[thelvynau]

He said stock suspension and LSD, so that's what I left it at. The only difference that I'm aware of is that I did it at SSRX because I don't have TGTT unlocked.

That would not accomplish anything. I'd like to try and understand why the car is acting that way for you to get a better appreciation for what it happening, and I can't do that simply by watching other people do it.

Im at a loss as to how it could happen then.

 

[Lock2Lock]

No it doesn't make any sense at all, all it does is prove that GT5 still has the same issues it has with realistically modeled torque steer (or lack of) from launch.

It wouldn't matter if it happened in 1st and 4th (or any other gear) when they are set to the same ratio, but it doesn't.

If its doesn't matter at all then explain to me exactly why it shouldn't happen in 1st but should in 4th and how that indicates a good torque steer model from launch in GT5.

I get what you are saying about in forza being able to take off in 1st and do what i demonstrated in my video. Great doesn't make it right either.
How can what i said in my previous post not make sense? Once again if i had the same gear ratio in 1st gear that i had in any other and it showing torque steer is a valid point. How is it not?

I tried the same thing based off what he described and got nothing is there a suspension setting he is using to pull the car to the side?

Not that i know of and like i said before stock suspension (and that probably would be the only way to do what you're saying is with a fully customizable) only thing that's tweaked is the transmission.

If you would like to see it first hand add me and come see.

I am trying to be as patient as i can but i can see some of you are trying to find anything to make it look like i am either cheating a result or whatever you want to call it. As i see it come join me and we can discuss it on the game as it is happening. It seems as if i am wasting my time making videos if people find things like the transmission topic which is not a valid point against what i have said and done

 

[dylansan]

How can what i said in my previous post not make sense? Once again if i had the same gear ratio in 1st gear that i had in any other and it showing torque steer is a valid point. How is it not?

It would be the same if the game was accurate. So to actually show the game is accurate, you have to show that they are the same.

You can't assume it would model it the same just because it would be the same in real life, because that's what you're trying to test in the first place.

 

[Scaff]

I get what you are saying about in forza being able to take off in 1st and do what i demonstrated in my video. Great doesn't make it right either.

It certainly makes it more accurate that GT5 when it comes to modeling torque steer.

The C63 AMG should exhibit low levels of torque steer in stock for, try launching a stock one (on any tyre you like in GT5) in 1st gear in both titles and let me know what happens.

How can what i said in my previous post not make sense? Once again if i had the same gear ratio in 1st gear that i had in any other and it showing torque steer is a valid point. How is it not?

Its not because it doesn't matter what gear ratio you have in 1st gear in GT5 the car will not torque steer in GT5, that you can then use the same ratio in 4th and get torque steer (however even that seems to be up for debate) doesn't make the problem go away.

 

[phillgt2002]

You didn't listen to what i said above. Just was in the same room with a friend and his car does it. Got a great view of the front wheels the whole time. You can clearly see he didn't turn the wheels at all. I am uploading it right now to YouTube


Here's the new video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9HRArmHNUCY&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Just go to replay, and do the interior view.

 

[Lock2Lock]

It certainly makes it more accurate that GT5 when it comes to modeling torque steer.

The C63 AMG should exhibit low levels of torque steer in stock for, try launching a stock one (on any tyre you like in GT5) in 1st gear in both titles and let me know what happens.

Its not because it doesn't matter what gear ratio you have in 1st gear in GT5 the car will not torque steer in GT5, that you can then use the same ratio in 4th and get torque steer (however even that seems to be up for debate) doesn't make the problem go away.

Totally agree on what you are saying about the stock C63. Wasn't denying that bro hahaha. Like i said before i was pointing out that GT5 does have torque steer but probably not like it should but it does have it. But it seems as if it comes into play with a long gear and lots of wheel spin.

And yes just tested the front wheel drives there's still torque steer but it seem way lighter than when i tested it last time.

Just go to replay, and do the interior view.

Read further i did that

 

[1241Penguin]

Funny. I always imagined that torque steer occurs (especially for such a powerful car like the C63) no matter the modifications.

 

[thelvynau]

Totally agree on what you are saying about the stock C63. Wasn't denying that bro hahaha. Like i said before i was pointing out that GT5 does have torque steer but probably not like it should but it does have it. But it seems as if it comes into play with a long gear and lots of wheel spin.

And yes just tested the front wheel drives there's still torque steer but it seem way lighter than when i tested it last time.

Read further i did that

Im not convinced you have demonstrated it.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

Another easy solution would be to put this C63 on Shared and let people who add you test it.

I'd actually be fine with doing just that if the lady hadn't just went to sleep.

 

[Da-Bomber]

Just go to replay, and do the interior view.

Would be the best way to prove that he didn't have a second controller driving while holding a fake controller out.

 

[Lock2Lock]

Im not convinced you have demonstrated it.

Ok well i don't understand how i haven't

Another easy solution would be to put this C63 on Shared and let people who add you test it.

I'd actually be fine with doing just that if the lady hadn't just went to sleep.

Like i said before ask to add me and i will have no problem doing so

Would be the best way to prove that he didn't have a second controller driving while holding a fake controller out.

Still hinting that i am cheating a result aka basically saying i am lying

And plus irrelevant comment because i did a video that i did with the in car camera

 

[thelvynau]

Ok well i don't understand how i haven't

Like i said before ask to add me and i will have no problem doing so

Still hinting that i am cheating a result aka basically saying i am lying

Well you havent provided anything concrete i have tried your suggestions and nothing scaff posted a video showing it doesnt exist.