For those that object to GTS or GT7 having Std Cars, what is your reason?

[Johnnypenso]

My main concern with the inclusion of standard cars is that we'll be partially running the same lumpy physics engine of 10yrs ago. I don't care about the looks so much but I don't want compromised physics, I'm tired of the constant understeer and lack of effect in relation body roll (not to mention the ever quirky tuning system), I just want the same physics applied to everything so that everything can be fun and competitive

Don't take this as defending the inclusion of standards but I don't think this is accurate. There is only one physics engine in the game and it applies to all cars we get to drive. Every car comes with it's own parameters for weight, drivetrain, weight distribution, grip etc. and they all get plugged into the physics engine the same as for premiums, super premiums etc. It's possible the standards have less parameters than premiums but that can be remedied if that is a concern.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

Don't take this as defending the inclusion of standards but I don't think this is accurate. There is only one physics engine in the game and it applies to all cars we get to drive. Every car comes with it's own parameters for weight, drivetrain, weight distribution, grip etc. and they all get plugged into the physics engine the same as for premiums, super premiums etc. It's possible the standards have less parameters than premiums but that can be remedied if that is a concern.

In GT5, I could replace the body code of standard car like R34 GTR Vspec with premium body code R34, and no one would know when driving it Looks premium, but the codes/parts that made the car is all standard R34

What really affects the car is suspension and chassis codes, suspension codes can be very specific to each car, so different model years like R34 GTR '99, '00, '02 may have different parameters inside the suspension codes ( ride height range, spring rate range, dampers, ARB ) but also could be the same (exact same)

So, it's not because the quality of the visual model, but the codes that made the car.

 

[Johnnypenso]

In GT5, I could replace the body code of standard car like R34 GTR Vspec with premium body code R34, and no one would know when driving it Looks premium, but the codes/parts that made the car is all standard R34

What really affects the car is suspension and chassis codes, suspension codes can be very specific to each car, so different model years like R34 GTR '99, '00, '02 may have different parameters inside the suspension codes ( ride height range, spring rate range, dampers, ARB ) but also could be the same (exact same)

So, it's not because the quality of the visual model, but the codes that made the car.

As I said above, any deficiency in the input parameters can be corrected if necessary. It's not an unsolvable problem. Whether they would do it or not if they decided to include standards is the question.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

As I said above, any deficiency in the input parameters can be corrected if necessary. It's not an unsolvable problem. Whether they would do it or not if they decided to include standards is the question.

I think we were assured that GTS will only have premiums, which should at least means less likely that standards will be in GT7. I suspect all premiums from GT5/6 will be in GT7, in addition to super premiums in GTS.

For parameters, PD could have differentiate model years like '99, '00, '02 R34 GTR with subtle changes in suspension and chassis codes ? So it may be intentional, and if all duplicates were premium, we may still see differences between model years of same car. For example, non Vspec and Vspec R34 GTR IRL is different in handling, due to the fitment of front and rear diffuser, rear active LSD/ATTESA ETS PRO, stiffer springs, lower ride height on the Vspec.

 

[NLxAROSA]

I must say I find it disappointing that they ditched so many premium cars from GT6.

That might not just be due to time or effort constraints, but licensing. I wouldn't be too surprised if a lot more is still coming.

 

[Samus]

I have a feeling that if Kaz gave us the option to install the Standard content from the game - tracks too, faceted hillsides, foldout trees and all, some of you would go into conniptions over the thought that someone, somewhere in the Playstationverse had those awful Standards in their game. And LIKED them! The OPTION to have that awful stuff... who would dare! Oh, the humanity...

Yeah, find me one person in any standard car thread who said that. Everyone who didn't want them said as long as they didn't see them in their game at all, fine.

 

[DolHaus]

Don't take this as defending the inclusion of standards but I don't think this is accurate. There is only one physics engine in the game and it applies to all cars we get to drive. Every car comes with it's own parameters for weight, drivetrain, weight distribution, grip etc. and they all get plugged into the physics engine the same as for premiums, super premiums etc. It's possible the standards have less parameters than premiums but that can be remedied if that is a concern.

I know what you mean and probably worded it badly but there is a noticeable difference when tuning a standard vs. a premium. Standards are far easier to tune, the cause/effect is far more simplified compared to its premium counterpart so that suggests to me that there is some hidden difference between the models (spring rates would be a prime example, if you do a basic "(Weight X gravity) / weight distribution" equation on a standard you end up with balanced spring rates but if you do it on a premium you end up way off)*.

*not suggesting this is true in every event but in my experience it is true more times than false

 

[SlipZtrEm]

Yeah, find me one person in any standard car thread who said that. Everyone who didn't want them said as long as they didn't see them in their game at all, fine.

I don't know what you expected, really. It's not a TenD post without gross exaggeration.

 

[Johnnypenso]

I know what you mean and probably worded it badly but there is a noticeable difference when tuning a standard vs. a premium. Standards are far easier to tune, the cause/effect is far more simplified compared to its premium counterpart so that suggests to me that there is some hidden difference between the models (spring rates would be a prime example, if you do a basic "(Weight X gravity) / weight distribution" equation on a standard you end up with balanced spring rates but if you do it on a premium you end up way off)*.

*not suggesting this is true in every event but in my experience it is true more times than false

No I understood what you meant, I'm just saying that if that answer is in the hidden coding for each car it's something that should be fixable behind the scenes by adjusting or adding the missing parameters for each car. I highly doubt they would go to that trouble for 12+ year old assets though.

 

[GranTurismo guy]

What scares me now for GT7 is that we are possibly looking at 3 levels of different car quality should past assets be included.

 

[DolHaus]

No I understood what you meant, I'm just saying that if that answer is in the hidden coding for each car it's something that should be fixable behind the scenes by adjusting or adding the missing parameters for each car. I highly doubt they would go to that trouble for 12+ year old assets though.

Agreed that they're not going to waste their time adjusting tons of old assets but if they include them then the rest of product could be compromised, I feel it is time to wipe the slate and get rid of some of the gremlins that have always troubled GT 👍

 

[Zuku]

What scares me now for GT7 is that we are possibly looking at 3 levels of different car quality should past assets be included.

Be Afraid be very very Afraid no seriously it's the scarier than anything you've ever seen.

 

[GranTurismo guy]

Be Afraid be very very Afraid no seriously it's the scarier than anything you've ever seen.

 

[jubeiiiii246]

Just make the standards in preniums at least. Gosh it's not that hard.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Agreed that they're not going to waste their time adjusting tons of old assets but if they include them then the rest of product could be compromised, I feel it is time to wipe the slate and get rid of some of the gremlins that have always troubled GT 👍

Agreed 100%👍👍

 

[jubeiiiii246]

Agreed 100%👍👍

So your saying you want to lose the GT-one that's been in Gran Turismo since the 2?

 

[Zuku]

Resident Evil 3: Neme erh um......Daihatsu!

 

[jubeiiiii246]

Resident Evil 3: Neme erh um......Daihatsu!

Auto works I guess?

 

[Fat Tyre]

@jubeiiiii246 What people seem to forget is that these are not cars, they're just digital representations of cars.

At the time that GT3 and 4 came out those were brilliant for the technology that was available for consumers, and I still think that they did an amazing job with those 3d models at the time. I fired up GT4 a couple of days ago and in that game they obviously don't look out of place, again, they were great looking assets for the time they were created.

Nowadays they are really an embarrassment compared to what can be done, and not by PD but in general across the industry. Even GTA has assets that look better than those "standards", more importantly those old assets barely represent the cars that they're trying to "portray" so to speak. They're way off some of them in terms of dimensions, scale and as mentioned earlier in performance as well.

If you are still interested in some of those cars you can get to see them and read about them on YouTube, Wikipedia, DRIVE, etc. If you want to take them out for a spin they'll always be there in GT3 through to 6.

Anyway, instead of feeling bad that you'll be losing cars see it for what it is, you are just losing old game assets that do not faithfully represent their real-life counterpart.

Time to move on. Yay, they're gone!

 

[chrisspeed281]

They need much more cars for GT7 so they have to update a lot of standard cars

 

[jubeiiiii246]

Goodbye GT-One

 

[Fat Tyre]

Goodbye GT-One

Trust me, it's a good thing.

 

[Samus]

It's not like a) you've not had a good run driving it for 15 years anyway, a fresh change is no bad thing and b) it's not going anywhere in the older games.

Oh and c) you never know, it could still have been remodelled for GTS. We've not seen all cars.

 

[Tenacious D]

Yeah, find me one person in any standard car thread who said that. Everyone who didn't want them said as long as they didn't see them in their game at all, fine.

Sometimes it's hard to tell.

But it's entirely possible that Kaz has rethought just throwing everything from GT6 into GT7, after seeing the quality of those "super Premiums" in the Sport engine. What this means for all those assets, I'm hoping is that PD are hiring more good modelers to handle the job and are hard at work Premiumizing it all, as well as all those legacy tracks. I recall the uproar of anticipation at the news of Midfield returning, a track which is pretty okay, but nothing I consider all that special, personally. Sure, more tracks is always a great thing, but just imagine if we find out Red Rock Valley, Grindelwald, El Capitain, Citta di Aria and Seattle are returning. I want all those tracks from past Gran Turismos.

And I know you're fond of poopoohing that poor NOMAD Diablo, but you must admit that if it was Premium, you'd be grabbing it for a few races.

I'd point out that a few notable members have voiced their support of keeping the Standards in Gran Turismo in the past, even if they weren't Premiumized. But it seems I'm the only one with the nerve to say that cars are cars, and the assurance many here have at being able to see clearly a Standard car in a race with the accompanying nausea seems to have silenced just about everyone but me. Even as I think you guys are grossly exaggerating that capability. Like totally.

Now, one thing which will be very interesting to witness is the reaction from many Planeteers if GT7 has sub-Premium assets, either cars or tracks. Will you refuse to race on tracks with ugly faceted hillsides and foldout trees? Say you won't buy it? I really want to tear around Tahiti Maze, and I don't care how "ugly" it looks. A track is a track. I want that NOMAD Diablo, because a car is a car. And both of them make the racing world go round.

I suppose I should just leave this as my last remarks on the subject because we're both repeating ourselves, and what we get in GT7 is what we get.

I don't know what you expected, really. It's not a TenD post without gross exaggeration.

My "gross exaggerations," eh? I seem to recall you asking me if I would enjoy driving a large pixel around a track.

 

[FS7]

On the topic of premiums, weren't we all speculating years ago how future proof their master models were (as seen in photo mode) and how they'd be able to reuse them on the PS4?

True, I also remember hearing many times that the reason we didn't have standing starts in offline races and only 10 cars in arcade races was because GT6's premium cars were made for PS4 and PS3 couldn't handle too many of them on screen.

 

[NLxAROSA]

True, I also remember hearing many times that the reason we didn't have standing starts in offline races and only 10 cars in arcade races was because GT6's premium cars were made for PS4 and PS3 couldn't handle too many of them on screen.

We didn't have standing starts for performance reasons, that much is obvious. I don't think I've heard anyone claim that this was because of having PS4 quality cars in a PS3 game. More strongly even, I've never heard anyone claim we had PS4 quality cars in GT6.

 

[FS7]

We didn't have standing starts for performance reasons, that much is obvious. I don't think I've heard anyone claim that this was because of having PS4 quality cars in a PS3 game. More strongly even, I've never heard anyone claim we had PS4 quality cars in GT6.

Didn't Kaz say in interviews that GT6's premiums were PS4-ready? I'm pretty sure I read that here at GTP.

 

[NLxAROSA]

Didn't Kaz say in interviews that GT6's premiums were PS4-ready? I'm pretty sure I read that here at GTP.

If I recall correctly he mentioned the car models were extremely high detail and then scaled down for use on PS3. (This is not the same as having PS4-grade models on PS3) He also mentioned those same models could be used in future versions of GT on newer hardware.

 

[C_Raccoon23]

Kaz did say the premium cars were good enough for PS4.

http://n4g.com/news/545837/new-gran...ars-have-enough-details-for-ps4-says-yamauchi

 

[Imari]

Even as I think you guys are grossly exaggerating that capability. Like totally.

Yes, we all know that you can't really see the differences, and therefore can't really believe that anyone else can either.

It's like trying to explain the concept of red to someone who is colourblind. You can't see it, and you don't have the mental flexibility to understand that possibly other people have perceptual skills that you might lack.

Kaz did say the premium cars were good enough for PS4.

http://n4g.com/news/545837/new-gran...ars-have-enough-details-for-ps4-says-yamauchi

Unfortunately, Kaz says a lot of things. It's often hard to tell when he's making statements of fact and when he's sharing what he hopes will be true.

Apparently this was a case where he hoped that premiums would be good enough for PS4, but they weren't.